Ye I also get where you’re coming from. ETH hasn’t helped himself really with the comment about aiming for 4th next year. As fans we all want us to be challenging as soon as possible. We have to be realistic though and realise the mess we’re in down to previous management and the way the clubs been run in the past. Unless there’s someone available who can come in and get these players performing week after week then I’d prefer we stuck with ETH and let him have his last year of his contract.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I get the first part of that statement, because I can respect that one might not rate the obvious alternatives; but the second part feels like repackaging apathy as pragmatism. I don’t see it as pragmatic to keep a manager who has just delivered our worst ever PL campaign, with multiple “worst ever” metrics underpinning it. Again, it feels more like apathy or perhaps more accurately, resignation.
Whilst I agree that viewed in isolation none of Tuchel, Pochettino, Frank, Potter, or Southgate seem like inspiring appointments; my perspective of each changes considerably when viewed through a comparative lens. For example, Tuchel as an appointment viewed independently….okay, I have my reservations about him, I’m not entirely convinced. However, Tuchel as an alternative to another season with Ten Hag suddenly looks a much more desirable appointment to me. The same goes for Poch, and Frank. Potter, I would still take over ETH, although with less enthusiasm, and I draw the line at Southgate. He’s about the only potential appointment that would have me switch to the ETH in camp.
I don’t know if I’m doing myself, and my ability to judge the situation, a service or a disservice by looking at it this way. I feel like they have to each be looked at for their independent merits; but I find it virtually impossible to divorce that process from the reality of it being [insert candidate name here] or Erik Ten Hag. That is perhaps because I am steadfastly against his continuation as manager, and think his position is completely untenable. I think it also takes into account the reality of the situation, and acknowledges that improvement can be incremental.
Whatever happens, even if we end up keeping him (I dearly hope we don’t), I’ll get behind whoever the manager is and give them a fair shake of the stick next season. For ETH next season is absolutely make or break for him if he stays, but I don’t feel the need to be beating that drum throughout the season. I certainly won’t be part of any “I told you so” nonsense. This isn’t about my, or anyone else’s, ego. It’s about the success of the club. So even though I’ve made clear many times that I want him gone because he’s failed so dismally to this point, and crucially I don’t see him being able to turn it around; if he does stay, I will be actively rooting against my own prediction. Because I’d rather be wrong and have United succeed, than be right and have another season in the wilderness.
Sadly, I think many posters are so partisan and entrenched in their views that they’d rather be right, than the club be successful. Everyone just feels too ready to rub it in someone else’s face whichever way it goes. As a fanbase things are likely to get toxic in the next 24 months, with the only cure being success. And even that isn’t a panacea.
If he stays and succeeds, ETH outers will be vilified. If he stays and fails, ETH inners will be ridiculed. If he goes and his replacement succeeds, ETH inners will be subjected to similar treatment, and if he goes and his replacement fails, it’ll be the most toxic situation of all.
I just want my beloved club to be successful again and to play good football. If ETH, Tuchel or Fred the fecking Red delivers that, then I don’t care. The reward is the glory and joy. All I can do is say that at this point in time, ETH seems one of the least likely candidates to be able to deliver that; but I’ll happily be proven wrong if that is what the future decides.
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He already has gone somewhere. On holiday..
Then why not announce that he's staying, and that they have full faith in him at this point. No club that's 100% backing the manager would let this speculation drag on for this long. They're letting the dust settle as much as possible before announcing our next manager.
Is there an option to just not have a meltdown either way?
Sir Cranky is apparently dilly dallying because he sees risk in both arguments. Christ I thought someone in his position could be decisive or at least one of his minions could.
here’s an idea, give him another season and if he’s shit sack him. Then you know.
Sick of it either way
here’s an idea, give him another season and if he’s shit sack him. Then you know.
Sick of it either way
There’s an irony to you using the name ‘Sir Cranky’ in this particular post.
The idea that Ratcliffe is stuck trying to make a decision because he's scared, is one of the more stupid things to be made up in a tweet. As if someone becomes a billionaire by taking over companies and being indecisive or paralysed by fear of making change.
I think the sacking or keeping him and whether it's deserved is a bit of a pointless angle at this stage as isn't a simple binary option for the club. The more pertinent question is simply who is best to manage us next season, so the pragmatic position is simply people supporting whoever they seem best.
People will rightly throw a wobble if it does go towards Southgate, others Ten Hag, others Tuchel.
Hopefully whoever the owners feel best to take charge next season (even If it's Southgate) they're given a worthwhile/appropriate grace period.
Where I stand on this is that the names on offer -- Southgate, Pochetinno, De Zerbi and Potter -- are in no way upgrades on ten Hag, a manager who has provided plenty of reasons to get himself sacked but at the same has delivered a solid first season before the miserable second season. The FA Cup win doesn't change the calculus all that much for me.
But if we are going to keep ten Hag the transfer keys must be taken away from him. He can advise INEOS all he wants but based on his experience so far I would not want to see him have final say over transfers in or out.
But if we are going to keep ten Hag the transfer keys must be taken away from him. He can advise INEOS all he wants but based on his experience so far I would not want to see him have final say over transfers in or out.
AWB ruined that for you, eh?
And Dalozza was right there.
maybe just maybe ETH went away to holiday right after the FA cup and they are just giving him a courtesy to wait and give the decision face-to-face ...
While talking to other managers and negotiating contracts with them. Really respectful.
They should have had it clear before the FA Cup final if they knew he was going on vacation.
has someone slipped me lsd the feck is going on here
Maybe but if Erik is the manager some hope that he is, after 2 years and the backing he's had we shouldn't be in such a mess. He's got largely a new squad to work with and has been allowed to sign the majority of the players that he identified and wanted.
It's hard to know what to believe .
A lot of the stuff reported just doesn't make sense to me .
" He's getting sacked no matter what the result in the Fa cup "
If that was true, their minds were made up long ago , why not sack him before the fa cup final ? After palace ? there's been plenty of opportunities .
where is the business logic in letting an already condemned man see out the season and take charge of a cup game that nobody thought he could win , that also has the carrot of extra revenue for the club via Europa qualification .
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E to tha rizzo, I to the Kizzay.
Fo shizzle the Rizzle needs to shell me out some compay.
E to tha rizzo, I to the Kizzay
That's the anthem, get your damn cups up.
Fo shizzle the Rizzle needs to shell me out some compay.
E to tha rizzo, I to the Kizzay
That's the anthem, get your damn cups up.
The people who want him sacked will want the next guy sacked also in about 2 years time and will be making the same arguments. At some point, you have to be patient and back the manager. And there isn't even anyone good available this summer so it's extra stupid sacking him.
Might as well get Keano in, at least the fans would be behind him.
Of all the managers we have sacked post SAF holding on to ETH at this point would be the most illogical.
Neither mourinho or Ole were given any grace after a poor start to the season, ETH has been given that grace this season massively and he wasn't really able to turn it around, besides the FA cup win.
LVG was sacked after a better season than ETH has had. And Moyes was sacked after his first season that you could make arguments for being better than the season just gone.
ETH is the one that deserves the sack the most. He hasn't really given us a alot of reasons to back him in al honesty. The others all had more reason to be backed.
At what point should a manager be sacked out of interest if you think we should back him?
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Amrabazza too.
One word. It starts with i.
We could have easily finished 11th, Ezza got us 8th and a cuppa.
A great philosopher once wrote...
Naughty, naughty, very naughty
Heh heh heh heh
There's a guy in the place who's got a bittersweet face
And he goes by the name of Ebenezza Goode
His friends call him 'Ezza and E's is the main geezer
And Ezza vibes up the place like no other man could
E's refined, E's sublime, E makes you feel fine
Though very much maligned and misunderstood
But if you know Ezza, E's a real crowd pleaser
Ezza's ever so good - he's EbenEzza Goode
Naughty, naughty, very naughty
Heh heh heh heh
There's a guy in the place who's got a bittersweet face
And he goes by the name of Ebenezza Goode
His friends call him 'Ezza and E's is the main geezer
And Ezza vibes up the place like no other man could
E's refined, E's sublime, E makes you feel fine
Though very much maligned and misunderstood
But if you know Ezza, E's a real crowd pleaser
Ezza's ever so good - he's EbenEzza Goode
For how long?
What happens if we 'be patient and back the manager' for let's say 5 years and it leads nowhere, is it ok to sack him then? And when we hire someone else will people make the same arguments to give them 5 years as well? What's the cut off point?
Is 2 years not long enough to see progress of some sort?
The cut off point can be giving more than just one season of bad form. Just to let him reset in the window and recover. Not just sack every time a season didn't go to plan.
Saying we were in bad form this season is a bit of an understatement. But ok fair enough, what happens if we have a decent season next year and come say 3rd-4th, can he then have another bad season the year after that?
Or would it ok at that point to want him sacked?
In my opinion he could and should have used the January window/period when he didn't get sacked at Xmas for a reset and recover. We only had 2-3 games in January, and practically only one game per week after that. He could have changed things up and worked on team tactics/shape/structure etc. But he instead chose to plough on as we were and here we are.
Yeah, I'm super surprised how he wasn't able to win us the Premier League with Casemiro and Evans as a CB pairing and no left back for almost all season. A true shock that he has finished 8th.
On a serious note, if the club somehow continues with him, which seems unlikely at this time, I hope he has 90% of the squad available for this upcoming season, so that we can see if he is truly tactically inept, or the crazy amount of injuries had something to do with where we finished this year.
Patient for how long? Back them for how long? Until finish lower than 8th?
Guys, I have been told that we'll know the future of Ten Hag by no later than September. Could be in 5 minutes, could be in 2 months, stay tuned.
I genuinely believe most of those "fans" still pro ten Hag are not true Manchester United fans, they enjoy seeing us struggle. How can you root for a manager that finished 4th in a UCL group including Galatasaray and Copenhagen? How can you finish 8th as a Manchester United manager? Have you all forgotten all the negative records ten Hag broke last season? Winning two cups should never be enough to keep him. I mean, Pompey, Wigan won these cups, so what's the big deal?? SAF never favored those cups of you all remember. The league is the standard, not cups. At times, ten Hag was really out of his depth last season. Finally, he keeps picking unnecessary fights with players and is a very poor man manager. He needs to be moved on. I personally stopped believing in him after we lost scandalously to Sevilla in the UEL last season. I knew ten Hag lacked something deep.
Look at you, flexing your ITK status. I'm sold.
No you dont. At some point a manager has to come in who is competent enough to consistently improve the team, the football and the results. Like Arteta or Klopp did.
For at least 1 more year. He needs a year where he doesn't have an injury crisis going on. If he can't get top 4 then, fair enough. But to sack him this year, especially given the alternatives to him, would be really foolish.
Ahh yes, if it becomes Poch-in, a lot of people will turn to poitin to cope!
It's starting to look like no matter what happens, there's going to be a fairly sizeable group who won't be happy.
Suppose it all comes down to whether you believe ETH is good enough to win the league containing Guardiola's City and a perennial 90 point Arsenal side under Arteta. If the answer is no, then there's no valid reason to keep him.
Got any Veerazz? Laahvlee!
Absolutely this, It’s all about challenging for the title. The thrill of the chase.
If we don’t have the right manager we go again until we do.
So who out there that is available is?
To be fair, given how the season went, it is clear that the owners (and fans) are not 100% behind him. It is just whether the owners actually see the hope of reaping massive sudden progress under him (after let's for the sake of argument say "incubation" of his plan) to let him continue to manage the squad into the next season or so.
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