Ten hag can insisit all he wants. But Murtough isnt showing any leadership in his role by not providing a deadline before looking at alternatives.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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This guy targeting Arnautovic and de Jong is concerning, anyone saying otherwise is wrong.
I agree with this to an extent. I think the De Jong or bust approach has been completely cast aside and we're now panicking. The club should have made it clear to him that our current midfield options aren't fit for purpose, though. They should have been actively trying to sell the likes of McTominay while he still has a bit of value.
Can understand him wanting Frenkie, but fans would have educated him to the fact that it is a long time since we have signed an at his peak world class player. We either go for past their peak players, hoping we have found a gem player (unfortunately with nobody to actually to coach them into being a gem) or second rate players. In fact the owners have let the whole club become second rate, from the stadium and facilities, not quite taking the women's team seriously to even letting a pretty good TV channel become an monstrosity. There got that off my chest.
Yeah this. Our window was a spectacular bust regardless of how people spin it.
Don't think that would have happened if he was confident he was coming here. If it doesn't happen might say a lot about FDJ rather than our manager.
Nope.
A minority of posters (Poch, Ole, Jose, Conte fans) never wanted him in the first place. Naturally they are happy to have been given the Brighton defeat as a pretext to tell everyone how right they were. Their number is insignificant though.
That said, the club’s failure to get players in, on top of a lack of evidence that its back-office organisation has improved under the new management, are making people very nervous. Which is hardly “turning against” EtH.
Didn't get his main targets so I have sympathy for him but if these backup targets are his idea then fecking hell
Quality not good enough for a mid-lower PL side in what we're currently linked with. Dreadful.
Quality not good enough for a mid-lower PL side in what we're currently linked with. Dreadful.
Yes I agree, you have to remember its ETH's first season in the PL and whilst he is obviously aware of the general picture, and (should) have been well briefed by his management team, he nevertheless has a lot of 'personal learning' to do.
Lesson (1) didn't go down well and he's now got 'double homework' to do.
I expect ETH to not get it perfect this season. Nothing wrong with a new guy getting something wrong. It’s all about how he does after that. It’s no different to any field of work scenario when you start a new job.
I remember Klopp and Guardiola getting humbled in their first outings here. Conte got absolutely smashed by an ultimately atrocious Wenger Arsenal early in his first season, which probably was a crucial point in time as they went on and won like a dozen league games in a row and won the title. I remember Klopp Liverpool looking dead on the feet shattered by the new year mark of his second season and people mocking Klopp then.
If we don’t get our first choice signings, thats fine. That’s par of the course and it happens to every club. I feel more comfortable that ETH would do just as well with alternatives than someone like Solskjaer who I thought would need his first choices to come through in order to work. ETH looks very hands on with coaching and has experience of rebuilding teams with Ajax.
Maybe he can take someone like Cody Gakpo, a player who looks good but you wonder whether he’s that good, find a system for him to play in and he develops that much better. I remember Mane being like that at Soton and the rest is history as they say.
But I think the crucial thing is ETH is a hands on coach, as that will help more in our position than having someone like Solskjaer, Mourinho or even Zidane, who give off that feeling that their methods only work if you get them EXACTLY what they want.
I remember Klopp and Guardiola getting humbled in their first outings here. Conte got absolutely smashed by an ultimately atrocious Wenger Arsenal early in his first season, which probably was a crucial point in time as they went on and won like a dozen league games in a row and won the title. I remember Klopp Liverpool looking dead on the feet shattered by the new year mark of his second season and people mocking Klopp then.
If we don’t get our first choice signings, thats fine. That’s par of the course and it happens to every club. I feel more comfortable that ETH would do just as well with alternatives than someone like Solskjaer who I thought would need his first choices to come through in order to work. ETH looks very hands on with coaching and has experience of rebuilding teams with Ajax.
Maybe he can take someone like Cody Gakpo, a player who looks good but you wonder whether he’s that good, find a system for him to play in and he develops that much better. I remember Mane being like that at Soton and the rest is history as they say.
But I think the crucial thing is ETH is a hands on coach, as that will help more in our position than having someone like Solskjaer, Mourinho or even Zidane, who give off that feeling that their methods only work if you get them EXACTLY what they want.
I think it's quite clear we have been working on a setup which will not work in EPL, not with this personnel.
Basically we're in a place where ETH could come just today to start training with the team and it wouldn't change a thing because we're starting from scratch anyway.
I think he has to stick to his own belief set, trust his and his own circle of trusted people's judgement and live or die by that. If he starts listening to the outside noise then he's done for.
Second season. What has that got to do with what I said? The point is this is a different situation and a manager is always going to have more sympathy if he tries something new. There were plenty of people in support of lvg in that season.
Its going to take time, do the pain now and reap the benefits later.
If he persists with Maguire Shaw and Rashford I will get worried. There are other options there for them at the minute
We are fecking stuck with the Squarehead Fred combo for now
We are fecking stuck with the Squarehead Fred combo for now
Really? I would say there is a better option in a Fred-Eriksen combo, and I would actually be much more worried if he pulls out the dreaded McFred, than if he continues to use Shaw and Maguire.
At this point just toss Garnacho in the deep end against Brentford, can't be much worse. Malacia as well, but i don't know if Varane is ready.
Is Linda and Bailly injured?
Anything with Fred is a recipe for disaster - I just dont know what he does!
That's interesting. I think Fred is a much more competent footballer than McTominay. Fred certainly has clear limitations, but he has at least shown on occasion that he is capable on winning back the ball. McTominay on the other hand is just pure headless chicken. Give med Fred over McTominay any day of the week.
I’d like to think him buying Martinez and Malacia means he isn’t entirely confident with Maguire and Shaw, and I’m sure he probably had a mini-stroke watching McTominay and Fred in action.
I think Fred is someone who can look better with certain players around him, but McTominay is hot trash in my opinion. A clumsy giant of man who hides from the ball.
That's kind of on the club though, right? This is why clubs generally employ dozens to hundreds of people to watch players and observe their physical attributes and abilities, keep track of their wages and contract details and any other relevant information in a large database, or at the very least buy that information from a company that does it. Managing a first team in a top league is a 60-80 hour a week job. He doesn't have time to maintain a scouting database, so if the DoF asks the manager who they should buy he's going to give a list of players he's coached or ones he can remember playing well against his team off the top of his head.
It's starting to sound like they asked Ten Hag what type of player he needed, he described a set of attributes for each position and then Murtough just stared blankly for a while until Ten Hag started listing specific names.
What utter bull that ETH underestimated Brighton, on the contrary. He was very complementary about Brighton, even stating he admired the way they played and how Potter sets them up in the pre match press conference.
People are just inventing crap now.
How many posters are in the Caf as imposters from rival teams just winding everybody up? Mods, get your act together. The longer this goes on the more real United fans you will lose forever.
People are just inventing crap now.
How many posters are in the Caf as imposters from rival teams just winding everybody up? Mods, get your act together. The longer this goes on the more real United fans you will lose forever.
Its obvious that he likes the way Brighton play and set up for them. What happened is a classic case of a new manager not used to the PL.
I think there were different contributing factors against Brighton, McFred and Bruno turned into last season midfield. We just didn't press well. I think rather than underestimating Brighton, he put too much faith in the players that have been rubbish after moments in pre season.
However; we also got worse as the pre season went on.
Blowing Murtough and Fletcher away shouldn't be that hard, to be fair.
But but...we keep being told that this is not the right way. That the manager is supposed to work with the players he has been given and not those who he wants.
Total rubbish. If the manager is accountable for delivering football success, it has to follow that he should decide on the players that make up his squad.
EtH addressed the lack of pressing in the first half was due to Brighton countering by using the long ball to bypass our press. Also there are already some good videos showing how poor Fred was, even by his standards, in connecting the defense and offense. McTominay was his usual self at this point. This is who he is. The good or great games from him are outliers and not a level he can perform at the vast majority of the time.
Every manager works with what he is given, even Chelsea and PSG managers. It took Klopp nearly three years and 4-5 windows to build a title winning team.
Rangnick would have told him about the state of our players and about the competitive nature of the league.
Redcafe my friend, redcafe. Welcome, leave your optimistic disposition at the door, and make yourself comfortable.
A new manager not being used to the PL isn't the reason for the giveaways that Dalot, Fred and McTominay repeatedly made. They might not be exceptional players, but they had absolute stinkers on the pitch as well. Simple first time passes being given away in dangerous positions. Players not following runners or not being alert to rebounds. Goalkeeper palming the ball back into a dangerous position. Players missing chances that were created. Literally 10 seconds in we had Dalot handing them a good chance, and shortly after Fred just passing it to them in an attacking position under no pressure. McTominay constantly trying to go hero mode and try to run through everyone only to get instantly dispossessed. McTominay ruining attacking moves and almost turning them into red cards.
None of that is down to "new manager system doesn't work". Its down to "new manager didn't get any of his targets in, so is left with trying to figure out a midfield grouping that is balanced and performs for him without shitting their pants under pressure". And that's something that pre season can't tell him. How players follow his instructions in the pressure of a real game.
Both of them are not what a serious title challenging team needs . Badly need upgrades
Spot on.
Aside from opposition scouting or ad hoc trips to watch players that scouts have identified, do managers even have time to watch football?
Thanks for the response. Next time, before having a pop at someone about the comment, feel free to read the whole message?
"I think rather than underestimating Brighton, he put too much faith in the players that have been rubbish after moments in pre season."
Hard to disagree with that assessment. Rabiot is going to save us though.
No no no. You don't make EtH the fall guy for this. If this goes tits up, Murtough's head has to roll and we have to get someone more established in. Likewise if we manage a decent season, credit to Murtough, should buy him a lot more time from fans.
Yeah I am starting to catch on to this too.
All of a sudden when suspect signings come to fruition we are being told its SOLELY ten hags transfer policy. I wonder who has a vested interest of briefing that.
Never seen Rabiot play - I hope he is better than whats there
Exactly.
Its incredible how much back covering is going on. First we read that the Rangnick and Ten Hag appointments are totally on Murtough. Then we read that all the crazy transfers were totally on Ten Hag. As if Ten Hag had a subscription to Juventus TV and while he was Ajax coach he was watching Rabiot week in week out.
At every level of the hierarchy the blame gets pushed downwards, as people try to hide behind poor decisions and lack of strategy. Richard Arnold puts it all on John Murtough. Now its not Murtough's fault its all Ten Hag and the club is backing the manager.
People need to wise up.
Ten Hag's not perfect but if we got 99 problems he aint one.
Agreed, Fred was very poor in terms of connecting the forwards.
Dalot is another one, who kept on ignoring Sancho on the wing and never passing to him.
McTominay, dont even get me started, I dont know why he thinks its a good idea to dribble through the centre of a team when there are options, he done that twice, one he got a red card.
Our pressing issue was visible, the second goal came from their corner flag... Dalot, Erikesen were very poor in that phase of play, then Fred was sleeping at the back post.
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