Nope. I quite literally remember the entire online community and media melting down last year after we drew against Southampton game 2. Journalists have actually written about it - the Manchester United negativity media cycle.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
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Nice to see patience from our fans.
I'd kill for a Rooney right now, past it and out of position and all.
Lvg couldn't get his first choices, let's see if the club learned anything.
This is so childish. You can have critical opinions without such name-calling nonsense.
If the dates are correct you're 59 years old.
If Arnautovic was on ten Hag's list of strikers, you've got to think: "How bloody far down the list?"
Again, because our bad results aren't the result of an off day or an unlucky game. If we're challenging for the league and got a bad result, the reaction wouldn't be the same, but for United it always looks like we're flattering to deceive and shit results are coming sooner or later, because even our wins aren't built on any strong base.
Yeah could be. I don’t know what he normally looks like really. I have faith.
We aren’t challenging for the league. Anyone who thinks that is in some parallel universe.
This!
It was one game! We were not good, not unlucky or deserved a point but this needs time, even with the right players! It's one thing to implement new things in training or friendlies but it needs time until they have it in their blood at PL level. You could see them falling back into old habits quite alot. This will get better with time.
But I also share the pessimism about the team management. Does he think McFred and Rashford are good enough after long studies? Well the fine, but that shouldn't change suddenly after one game. Stick to your plan if you believe in it.
Is anyone else appreciating the irony that supposedly almost every Dutch/Eredivisie player is utter shite and even mid-table PL clubs are chock full of comparative worldies who are miles better than any of them, yet ten Hag moves from there to a supposedly big 6 club the the PL and almost every player in the squad he inherits:
-cannot press
-cannot handle being pressed
-cannot pass accurately
-can't keep their passes on the floor
-cannot make themselves available for passes
-has a poor first touch
-cannot play one-twos
-has poor positional awareness
-cannot press
-cannot handle being pressed
-cannot pass accurately
-can't keep their passes on the floor
-cannot make themselves available for passes
-has a poor first touch
-cannot play one-twos
-has poor positional awareness
I don’t mind the thought process there if the idea is to find a cheap veteran on a short term deal who is happy playing off the bench behind Martial and Ronaldo, throw his weight around for 15 mins when chasing a goal and start the odd cup game etc.
I get it you either don't get the point or gets it but don't have a reply ?
No I genuinely have no clue what you’re talking about. Of course there’s huge negativity around the club. Any time we drop points there is a shit storm. Anyone who doesn’t think that a) occurs or b) makes the manager’s job harder is just a bit simple. We aren’t very good. We’re a borderline top 6 team under a new manager trying to completely overhaul how we play. We lost to a top 10 side. It isn’t a huge shock and doesn’t warrant the media storm. It’s going to take time - it’s frankly bizarre Manchester United losing is still news.
It was suggested that was the case today, with comparisons made to the Zlatan and Cavani signings. Issue was the player's past was a red flag.
If you actually put some effort into reading the posts of the one you're talking to rather keeping saying what you just memorized in your mind, you'll have a clue.
Thinking that starting the season with a loss at home while putting on a shit performance isn't a huge shock is everything wrong about your weird argument.
Dropping points isn't the reason for the shit storm. It's because we're dropping points because we're shit and there's no signs on the pitch of this improving any time soon.
I found the performance against Brighton quite logical as it’ll take time before we start seeing ETH’s coaching taking effect.
Everyone and his dog know this particular team hasn't been properly coached for years. Martial, Rashford, Shaw, mctominay, Dalot, De Gea and a few others have spent most of their pro years under Ole and Jose who didn't implement pressing or passing patterns. Brighton on the other hand do it effortlessly.
How much time does ETH have? What's his KPI? What's the minimum he must achieve by next May to keep his job?
That's lots of lazy comparisons just for the sake of it.
I don't get that. I don't read everything obviously, but I can't say I'm seeing people questioning if he knows what he's doing. At least not as a manager. The transfer strategy mess is something else, but that's really not on him. Even if he IS the one driving that he shouldn't have to, and wouldn't if we were a well-functioning club.
I remember after the game against Liverpool last year where we tried to press them and analysts were describing how they were getting the basics of it wrong because some of them had never done it before.
They were right though. In that case.
If he lost the next 10 games (wont happen obviously) i'd still feel bad/sorry for him with the way the club is run and the mess he's inherited. This is on the club structure, which has seen Moyes, LVG, Jose and Ralf ALL call it out for what it is during their time here. 90% of the anger of the fanbase will be directed at the board (should be a 100%)
Looking on the positive side, even if it takes a long time to get to grips with the domestic league and bed the new signings in hopefully the Europa League campaign will be a good one and our ticket back to the champions league.
Looking on the positive side, even if it takes a long time to get to grips with the domestic league and bed the new signings in hopefully the Europa League campaign will be a good one and our ticket back to the champions league.
Exactly. It will take7\8 games imo before they start remembering all the coaching and tactics and making it stick.
Did anyone really expect everything to be fine from the start of the season? The rot we have in the club is a result of great neglect since 2013. Sir Alex would have won much more if he had a proper structure behind him. I suspect that the longevity of some of the class of 92 and later players like Rio, Vidic and Evra kept things together and we continued pushing on and getting results despite our bad ownership.
Any manager in the world would take at least a couple of years to build a functional team after what happened during the years post-Sir Alex, and that is with the right backing from the owners.
Preseason the way we do it is not really a good time for the squad to learn the ways of the new manager because of all the interruptions from travelling and jetlag. We need to just stick with it now. We obviously have a competent manager with a clear way of playing.
I firmly believe that the problem is the ownership. They have no clue on how to run a football club and changing managers will just keep repeating the same process of rebuilding from square one.
Any manager in the world would take at least a couple of years to build a functional team after what happened during the years post-Sir Alex, and that is with the right backing from the owners.
Preseason the way we do it is not really a good time for the squad to learn the ways of the new manager because of all the interruptions from travelling and jetlag. We need to just stick with it now. We obviously have a competent manager with a clear way of playing.
I firmly believe that the problem is the ownership. They have no clue on how to run a football club and changing managers will just keep repeating the same process of rebuilding from square one.
He was very calm in his post match press conference. I was impressed with how he spoke. Certainly didn't look overawed, probably disappointed with how shit some of our players are but I even think that's a positive that he finds out sooner rather than later.
The main reason for the backlash is mainly because United fans had very little to be excited about. He started the same crap players who disappointed everyone last season and the match followed exactly the same formula as last season literally no different. We played the same had exactly the same problems. We didn't even have the chance to at least be excited by a different type of midfield that we already know is a mess or a winger that we can maybe get a bit excited about. It looks from a fans point of view that he didn't learn from what we all already knew and that adds to the frustration. I just pray he moves on from these mistakes quickly because I'm sure many of us can give someone time if they are trying different things. But seeing the same old crap from the same old players isnt going to give anyone to be excited about.
Yeah he was calm. I don’t know what he looked. Disappointed I suppose. I dunno, he seemed surprised that Man Utd can’t even beat Brighton at home at the moment.
I’m exaggerating here but if Ajax have an off day, a few injuries, an unjust red card and a freak goal against them that goes in off the ref, they still win 4-1. The prem is different anyway but managing Utd is especially tough because, like Ajax, we expect to win 4-1 but we don’t, we get done.
Right. I believe I posted earlier in this thread that if he had changed his mind about buying a midfielder after one game, that he’s actually overreacting.
he made statements in preseason about coaching up the current squad if he can’t get the players he wants. That’s fine if he can get us top 4, but apparently changing his mind so quickly makes it look like he doesn’t know what he’s gotten himself into.
and I say this as someone who won’t blame him even if this season is a disaster. It will still be the Glazers and Murtough’s fault. It just seems like we need a generational manager to really change things, and I don’t know if ETH is capable of that.
Not to be flip about it, but we just need to be patient and not react to every development, even if it's a humiliating season-opening defeat at Old Trafford.
What a lazy comparison
de Jong is yet to enter his prime, Schweinsteiger was way past it when we got him.
It's a fecking crime to compare Martínez to Rojo, he's literally a different category. Red card waiting to happen based on what? If anything he was composed, both on and off the ball so far.
And Maguire is not playing based on the fact that he's captain.
The problem ETH had is, in order to get the job he had to go through an interview process. He had to sell himself to Man United to get the job.
He couldn't say to the board, the squad is pathetic, we need to spend 300 million and replace them all. He wouldn't of got the job.
Mourinho was in a similar situation with Spurs, he said all the right things, that he wanted to play attacking football and he was happy with the squad, then when the sh** hit the fan he reverted back to parking the bus and slagging off the squad.
ETH is in a long term (hopefully) battle with the board, unfortunately, Man United are no longer about winning football games, Cash is king.
He needs time to change the squad gradually over maybe 3 to 5 years before he can be judged.
Every man and his dog knows Maguire is nowhere good enough for Man United but if ETH had said that in his interview, would he of got the job? No he wouldn't, he had to speak music to the ears of the board, where cash is King. They don't want to offload Maguire for 7 million and have to spend another £50m.
He couldn't say to the board, the squad is pathetic, we need to spend 300 million and replace them all. He wouldn't of got the job.
Mourinho was in a similar situation with Spurs, he said all the right things, that he wanted to play attacking football and he was happy with the squad, then when the sh** hit the fan he reverted back to parking the bus and slagging off the squad.
ETH is in a long term (hopefully) battle with the board, unfortunately, Man United are no longer about winning football games, Cash is king.
He needs time to change the squad gradually over maybe 3 to 5 years before he can be judged.
Every man and his dog knows Maguire is nowhere good enough for Man United but if ETH had said that in his interview, would he of got the job? No he wouldn't, he had to speak music to the ears of the board, where cash is King. They don't want to offload Maguire for 7 million and have to spend another £50m.
I need to hear from those supporters that were absolutely convinced of ETH, because as much as it genuinely pains me to say it, I am a bit worried.
I was at the game this weekend and left shell shocked. I think my exact words when Brighton scored the second and we looked abysmal were "this cannot be happening". I've not posted a lot about ETH since then whilst I try to figure out what I'm thinking about this whole thing. But there's a lot on my mind that I'd like to discuss (may have been discussed 1000 times already this week so far).
1) Those tactics. Going with the false 9. Fred deepest midfielder and Mctominay advanced. Honestly, what was he thinking? I genuinely believe he has massively underestimated the PL. He's tried to come off as a genius, tried to do what others failed at. In my opinion, you can't play with a false 9 with this squad until we have absolutely mastered the possession side at least. We lost an outlet, a focal point, and were aimless. A false 9 is not a player of Eriksen or Bruno's mould. Next, it was proven a long time ago that Fred cannot play that role. There are actual quotes from players to say that Fred is the trigger to press us, it is common knowledge that this is his weakness. We actually played to his weakness!! He can only function further up the pitch, pressing and linking. That is it. And Mctominay offers nothing further up the pitch. In fact, he's such a liability for defensive positioning and recovery that he's useless at the strongest aspect of his game if he's too far forward.
So, has ETH watched us play in depth? He's supposed to be a man of detail yet missed very glaring issues. Which leads me to my next question, does nobody at the club, Fletcher for example, point all this out to him when discussing tactics? He's been there to witness this with his own eyes.
2) Our shape. On the ball we had 2 CBs with Fred in front of them. Our fullbacks right up the pitch practically marking themselves out of the game. The rest of our players (this probably wasn't noticeable on TV for those not there) were literally in a line across the pitch about 35 yards ahead. When our CBs had the ball they looked up and saw a sea of Brighton players. Nobody ahead dropping back to offer an angle past Fred. No movement. Is this by design? Because I was at there thinking that I can see how this will look like LVG football very quickly, chaining the ball across defence very slowly to find an opening. I thought he's all about possession? Where's the triangles? The numerous passing options? Watch analysis of Peps football and you'll see that City and Barca create diamond shapes around players in possession so they always have plenty of options. Movement to create opening, 3rd man running. We saw none of that and not even an attempt at that. What we actually ended up with was a lot of long balls to nowhere because we had no passing options.
3) the subs. I know this has been discussed but it felt like we killed the game for them from the 80th minute onwards. Just as we had a head of steam. It was clear from early on that Rashford wasn't offering a thing. There was no risk in throwing Garnacho on earlier, for example. Then the fact that he took Sancho off instead. He looked a bit tired, but I would have liked to have seen him on the left instead of Rashford as he has proven to be a goal threat from there.
4) We did better in the second half up to a point. I said at half time that Eriksen needs to play deeper as he's our only hope of progressing play forward. We did that and it worked, though I think more because Brighton closed out the game instead and changed their shape. But, what I saw in the second half was a bit worrying again. No route through the middle but instead trying to whip crosses in. Moyes Vs Fulham anyone? But what was happening a lot was that line of 6 or 7 players up the pitch just wasn't making enough effort to get into the box. In preseason we overloaded the box well. Against Brighton our wide players were having to delay too many times to wait for the runs. Why did this happen? Are we going to become a long ball/crossing team against well organised teams?
5) Shaw coming straight back in. It's been discussed. But what a lazy, reactive player he is. Zero intensity, half asleep on the pitch. Stops to watch his man receive the ball before he realises he needs to close them down. It is time to integrate Malacia.
6) No Iqbal on the bench. I know people will say it was only preseason and he's just a kid, but due to point number 2, we were crying out for a player that can beat the press by carrying the ball. Only because we'd backed ourselves into such a corner with our shape, but surely he would have been a good option in this sense. Not only that but he deserved it. He was better than most of these lot. I seriously hope ETH isn't going to be that manager that puts players unworthy ahead in the pecking order just because of their name or their age. Iqbal should have been on the bench and Savage looked far better than Garner and he's disappeared.
7) Unrelated to the game but another thing that is bothering me. Thinking back to Rangnick being let go and ETH not wanting to talk to him. Plus the stories about demands from ETH to get the job, I'm starting to wonder if ETH wanted full control over transfers. And if he did, this summer brings me nothing but fear if so. Are these his targets? Are we genuinely going to go along with this? Is the FDJ debacle down to him? Honestly he's treating us like we play in Eredivise with some of these names we're being linked with. I'm hoping he's not going to prove to be an arrogant manager that doesn't believe the hype about the PL, only to be eaten alive by it. I've seen it with LVG, another Dutch manager that felt his very particular ideas were the only way to play football.
I wanted to get all this off my chest because I'm desperate for him to be a success and I'm a bit worried right now.
I was at the game this weekend and left shell shocked. I think my exact words when Brighton scored the second and we looked abysmal were "this cannot be happening". I've not posted a lot about ETH since then whilst I try to figure out what I'm thinking about this whole thing. But there's a lot on my mind that I'd like to discuss (may have been discussed 1000 times already this week so far).
1) Those tactics. Going with the false 9. Fred deepest midfielder and Mctominay advanced. Honestly, what was he thinking? I genuinely believe he has massively underestimated the PL. He's tried to come off as a genius, tried to do what others failed at. In my opinion, you can't play with a false 9 with this squad until we have absolutely mastered the possession side at least. We lost an outlet, a focal point, and were aimless. A false 9 is not a player of Eriksen or Bruno's mould. Next, it was proven a long time ago that Fred cannot play that role. There are actual quotes from players to say that Fred is the trigger to press us, it is common knowledge that this is his weakness. We actually played to his weakness!! He can only function further up the pitch, pressing and linking. That is it. And Mctominay offers nothing further up the pitch. In fact, he's such a liability for defensive positioning and recovery that he's useless at the strongest aspect of his game if he's too far forward.
So, has ETH watched us play in depth? He's supposed to be a man of detail yet missed very glaring issues. Which leads me to my next question, does nobody at the club, Fletcher for example, point all this out to him when discussing tactics? He's been there to witness this with his own eyes.
2) Our shape. On the ball we had 2 CBs with Fred in front of them. Our fullbacks right up the pitch practically marking themselves out of the game. The rest of our players (this probably wasn't noticeable on TV for those not there) were literally in a line across the pitch about 35 yards ahead. When our CBs had the ball they looked up and saw a sea of Brighton players. Nobody ahead dropping back to offer an angle past Fred. No movement. Is this by design? Because I was at there thinking that I can see how this will look like LVG football very quickly, chaining the ball across defence very slowly to find an opening. I thought he's all about possession? Where's the triangles? The numerous passing options? Watch analysis of Peps football and you'll see that City and Barca create diamond shapes around players in possession so they always have plenty of options. Movement to create opening, 3rd man running. We saw none of that and not even an attempt at that. What we actually ended up with was a lot of long balls to nowhere because we had no passing options.
3) the subs. I know this has been discussed but it felt like we killed the game for them from the 80th minute onwards. Just as we had a head of steam. It was clear from early on that Rashford wasn't offering a thing. There was no risk in throwing Garnacho on earlier, for example. Then the fact that he took Sancho off instead. He looked a bit tired, but I would have liked to have seen him on the left instead of Rashford as he has proven to be a goal threat from there.
4) We did better in the second half up to a point. I said at half time that Eriksen needs to play deeper as he's our only hope of progressing play forward. We did that and it worked, though I think more because Brighton closed out the game instead and changed their shape. But, what I saw in the second half was a bit worrying again. No route through the middle but instead trying to whip crosses in. Moyes Vs Fulham anyone? But what was happening a lot was that line of 6 or 7 players up the pitch just wasn't making enough effort to get into the box. In preseason we overloaded the box well. Against Brighton our wide players were having to delay too many times to wait for the runs. Why did this happen? Are we going to become a long ball/crossing team against well organised teams?
5) Shaw coming straight back in. It's been discussed. But what a lazy, reactive player he is. Zero intensity, half asleep on the pitch. Stops to watch his man receive the ball before he realises he needs to close them down. It is time to integrate Malacia.
6) No Iqbal on the bench. I know people will say it was only preseason and he's just a kid, but due to point number 2, we were crying out for a player that can beat the press by carrying the ball. Only because we'd backed ourselves into such a corner with our shape, but surely he would have been a good option in this sense. Not only that but he deserved it. He was better than most of these lot. I seriously hope ETH isn't going to be that manager that puts players unworthy ahead in the pecking order just because of their name or their age. Iqbal should have been on the bench and Savage looked far better than Garner and he's disappeared.
7) Unrelated to the game but another thing that is bothering me. Thinking back to Rangnick being let go and ETH not wanting to talk to him. Plus the stories about demands from ETH to get the job, I'm starting to wonder if ETH wanted full control over transfers. And if he did, this summer brings me nothing but fear if so. Are these his targets? Are we genuinely going to go along with this? Is the FDJ debacle down to him? Honestly he's treating us like we play in Eredivise with some of these names we're being linked with. I'm hoping he's not going to prove to be an arrogant manager that doesn't believe the hype about the PL, only to be eaten alive by it. I've seen it with LVG, another Dutch manager that felt his very particular ideas were the only way to play football.
I wanted to get all this off my chest because I'm desperate for him to be a success and I'm a bit worried right now.
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I can't disagree with this. He might have underestimated the talent deficit in the midfield. The recent movement in the transfer market is in itself an acknowledgment of the mistaken belief that the problem could be patched internally. The thing is, and this can't be said enough, he wasn't leading recruitment at Ajax. Leaving everything to him was going to lead to learning mistakes. We needed to give him a good structure. Then again our current DoF wasn't leading recruitment here either (or anywhere for that matter) so that would still come back to ETH being the most qualified to make those calls. We doomed his first season when we let him come into a barebones setup without experience or a true guiding hand to supplement his.
If ETH started Garnacho and Iqbal, let’s say, he would be able to win over the fans. But what have we got - the same stuff as last year? There is no point
All good points and well articulated concerns!
I hope to see big changes for the next game. I'll almost be at the stage of despair already if we see a similar team selected. If he plays youth players then I think more supporters could accept the season isn't going to be smooth, with a view to the bigger picture. I think we will need a good DM to support the young midfielders though, if they were given a chance. I can't see it happening though.
Works both ways though, doesn't it? I'm sure the board also lied to him about being able to deliver on transfers, the same way they told LVG they'd have no problem signing unrealistic targets like Neymar and Muller.
Thanks. It's been stewing a few days and I never thought I'd have such concerns after one game, but it's troubled me
I don't think the transfer news has helped.I don't want to come across as being negative already but I genuinely want clarification or tactical insight from people that saw his football previously. I want to know how this should have worked, or where players weren't carrying out their job correctly.
Thanks. It's been stewing a few days and I never thought I'd have such concerns after one game, but it's troubled me
I don't want to come across as being negative already but I genuinely want clarification or tactical insight from people that saw his football previously. I want to know how this should have worked, or where players weren't carrying out their job correctly.
After all we’ve been through as fans it’s only fair. The decisions are baffling right now and it’s clear to everyone.
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