Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Fallon d'Floor]

So hand on heart, you foresaw Arteta doing what he's done now? If you did fair play, but I was one of many Utd fans begging Arsenal to keep him, and there was a vast majority of Arsenal fans who would have happily seen him walk. I'm absolutely not misrepresenting those facts; his progression was far from linear, which was the whole point. They made strides very quickly when it was expected to take a significantly longer period.

I had no expectations.

I thought "wow, Arsenal are taking a huge risk hiring a 37 year old manager who's never managed before and has only been as assistant manager/coach for 3.5 years".

But I was impressed with how he improved them defensively compared to the 1st half of the season under Emery/Ljungberg. They went from 29 goals conceded from 17 games to 19 goals conceded from 21 games under Arteta. 8 cleans sheets compared to 2.

With Arteta, you had a rookie manager with room to develop. He was going to make some mistakes along the way. That's a massive job for an inexperienced manager.
He learned the ropes during his first 18 months and had turned Arsenal into a good side by 2 full years in.There was a big improvement in results from the 1st half of the 20/21 season compared to the 2nd half of that season. We've actually gotten worse as this season has gone on.

Most of ten Hag's best moments as United manager came between late August and late February 2022. We've spent more time out form under him than in form.

SAF was 44 years old when he replaced Big Ron. Arteta was 37 years old when he replaced Emery. Time was on their side.

We hired a 52 year old manager with 10 years of managerial experience + a further 10 years of coaching experience prior to becoming a manager. He's now 54.

Most 21st century managers win their 1st CL before the age of 50. Ancelotti (43), Mourinho (41), Benítez (45), Pep (38), Zidane (43) Tuchel (47).

Klopp won The CL at the age of 51, but had made a CL final by the age of 45 and another one at the age of 50.

If ten Hag was going to be an elite manager, he'd likely be one by now.

 

[Dec9003]

So because Ten Hag did better than expected last season he's judged differently? Going backwards can happen, and does happen all the time particularly in the wider context of our season.

I didn't see it like that and I think many Arsenal fans didn't either. He had three poor seasons followed by a big jump, a couple points here and there isn't the difference maker. Very few people expected the jump that has eventually happened to occur and that happened because he was backed in a big way with fantastic recruitment.

Yeah, I think Ten Hag raised his own expectations with a good first season, coupled with the fact that expectation was generally higher than Arsenal's at the time Arteta joined. If he had done worse last season, but improved this season he would be viewed differently, imo. As for the linearity of Arsenal's progress the way you saw it doesn't really matter. They made big changes bringing in young players and the board/manager accepted that it would take time, which it has. They have improved on their previous season every time since Arteta's first full season; they went from 8th to 5th (almost in the top 4 that season) then 5th to 2nd (probably a bit ahead of schedule to have challenged that year) then repeated that this season. I don't think it is fair to compare Arteta and ETH because their jobs and expectations are, imo, drastically different.

 

[DJ_21]

But the point I'm making there is that he got more of his choices of signings in the door, at any expense, in his first two seasons than most other managers in similar positions re expectations and spending power. Including Arteta and Klopp.

He signed 11/25 players in our current squad. If you include youth players promoted (Garnacho, Mainoo, Kambwala) and major new contracts (Shaw, Rashford, Dalot) that number jumps to 17/25.

That's an unusually high amount of influence for a manager to have on a squad in only 18 months.

Which he was only allowed because we didn’t have anyone proper running the show.

 

[Maticmaker]

If you were a top (or even aspiring) manager anywhere, with PL experience and you looked at United, as it now stands.
The changes at, but not of, ownership level; the squad of players we have available, with injuries, age issues, form history and future expectations; with a stadium that needs either a new build or major renovation, could you be tempted to come and live in the goldfish bowl?

So, ETH is staying for the foreseeable future... no brainer!

 

[Smores]

I completely disagree with that. This United job is easily the hardest job in world football currently. The quality of the team is so far below the fans' expectations.

As I love a quick search, you predicted us to finish 3rd this season. How does that correlate to what you've just written?

I feel like many of you are now in hindsight shitting on the squad and the players to defend a manager. If we setup with a proper shape all season chances are we'd have been in the top 4 fight. Yet he didn't and from that decision we've gained absolutely nothing. For that alone he deserves to go as it's a very very expensive mistake.

 

[LawCharltonBest]

If you were a top (or even aspiring) manager anywhere, with PL experience and you looked at United, as it now stands.
The changes at, but not of, ownership level; the squad of players we have available, with injuries, age issues, form history and future expectations; with a stadium that needs either a new build or major renovation, could you be tempted to come and live in the goldfish bowl?

So, ETH is staying for the foreseeable future... no brainer!

There are a few things I could pick at here. However I'll focus on two

1) If Ten Hag does stay, I doubt it will be for the foreseeable. If he is, it would have to be a dramatic improvement from August up to Christmas.
2) If Ten Hag is sacked by the end of the month, I feel quite confident there will still be a ridiculous amount of serious managers throwing their hat in the ring. To turn United around (which is more realistic now than at any other point post-Fergie) would be the exciting and rewarding thing in football

 

[TsuWave]

- Building towards a pro-active style of play.
- Respecting the heritage of the club.

Based on those parameters (which I hope INEOS will stick too in their game model) I don't think any of the currently available managers really meet all those expectations. Of the managers we have been linked with, I'd take Ange for sure. I'd be willing to gamble on Mckenner too. The other candidates I either haven't seen enough of personally, or I don't believe they meet all the above (i.e. Tuchel). Ten Hag has made mistakes, but if you are looking at the overarching vision of the club, he does tick the boxes, and I don't think he's turned into a terrible coach overnight.

What do you mean by respecting the heritage of the club? Do you think we're building towards a pro-active style of play under Ten Hag?

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Yeah, I think Ten Hag raised his own expectations with a good first season, coupled with the fact that expectation was generally higher than Arsenal's at the time Arteta joined. If he had done worse last season, but improved this season he would be viewed differently, imo. As for the linearity of Arsenal's progress the way you saw it doesn't really matter. They made big changes bringing in young players and the board/manager accepted that it would take time, which it has. They have improved on their previous season every time since Arteta's first full season; they went from 8th to 5th (almost in the top 4 that season) then 5th to 2nd (probably a bit ahead of schedule to have challenged that year) then repeated that this season. I don't think it is fair to compare Arteta and ETH because their jobs and expectations are, imo, drastically different.

ten Hag brought the club back to the standards of the 20/21 season under Ole. 74 points and a Europa League final. 75 points and two domestic cup finals.

Most people would have been content with sideways progress this season. 70-75 points and a decent CL run would have been perfectly fine. Those two and an improvement in style.

But we went completely backwards this season. This is worse than the 21/22 season. More defeats, out of Europe before Christmas, a negative GD with 1 PL game left to go, etc.

The signs have been there since winning The League Cup. Our overall GD is -1 across our last 51 PL games. That's a big sample size.

 

[Maticmaker]

I feel quite confident there will still be a ridiculous amount of serious managers throwing their hat in the ring. To turn United around (which is more realistic now than at any other point post-Fergie) would be the exciting and rewarding thing in football

You are certainly optimistic.
I suspect if there is a ridiculous amount of such people, it will be managers (maybe of past standing) but at or near to the edge of their career plateau and about to enter the downward spiral. Hope sir Jim would have enough sense to steer clear.... but you never know!

 

[Revan]

ten Hag brought the club back to the standards of the 20/21 season under Ole. 74 points and a Europa League final. 75 points and two domestic cup finals.

Most people would have been content with sideways progress this season. 70-75 points and a decent CL run would have been perfectly fine. Those two and an improvement in style.

But we went completely backwards this season. This is worse than the 21/22 season. More defeats, out of Europe before Christmas, a negative GD with 1 PL game left to go, etc.

The signs have been there since winning The League Cup. Our overall GD is -1 across our last 51 PL games. That's a big sample size.

Only on the context of injuries to be fair. Without injuries, my expectation to be content would have 80+ points. Second season, 400m spent, enough time to coach the team to do what he wants.

With injuries that we had, a 70 point season would have been ok. A sub-60 is really bad.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

This is bonkers. Please explain why he's a far better manager than moyes because he quite clearly isn't.

You only have to go back a year to see what he achieved with the squad or is the recency bias too strong to get rid of?

 

[mu4c_20le]

So, ETH is staying for the foreseeable future... no brainer!

Yeah, a brainless decision

 

[Atheist]

Moyes has won a European trophy and Ten Hag hasn’t. In fact we were thrashed by Sevilla, although admittedly in the Europa league. I don’t think the comparison between Moyes and Ten Hag is as ridiculous as it sounds, atleast on the basis of what’s been achieved anyway. Dutch league titles have little meaning, considering how Frank De Boer got found out in the Premier League.

 

[Roboc7]

As I love a quick search, you predicted us to finish 3rd this season. How does that correlate to what you've just written?

I feel like many of you are now in hindsight shitting on the squad and the players to defend a manager. If we setup with a proper shape all season chances are we'd have been in the top 4 fight. Yet he didn't and from that decision we've gained absolutely nothing. For that alone he deserves to go as it's a very very expensive mistake.

We’re 11 points behind Villa, I’ve no doubt if we had t set up with these bizarre tactics that we could have closed that gap to some extent at least.

What’s so strange is how he has chosen to play doesn’t even suit players like Mainoo and it’s completely unsustainable. It’s a wasted season for which the manager has to take a lot of blame.

 

[Nori-]

Tuchel back on the Market.

Not my first , second or third choice in a ideal market but will take anything at this point. ETH is finished here.

Motta would be a good option but looks like hes going to Juve. Maybe Amorim is worth a 2 year contract but from the sounds of it he priced himself out of a move to LFC. Would try to demand a lot of £££ from us.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Only on the context of injuries to be fair. Without injuries, my expectation to be content would have 80+ points. Second season, 400m spent, enough time to coach the team to do what he wants.

With injuries that we had, a 70 point season would have been ok. A sub-60 is really bad.

We should be one of the best teams in the league by now, yeah. Klopp reached a CL final in less than 3 years. We're miles behind that level.

Newcastle have scored more PL goals this season (37 games) than we have across the last 51 PL games. And that's with Isak missing 7 PL games and Wilson missing 18 PL games.

It's really bad.

 

[Maticmaker]

Yeah, a brainless decision

Perhaps I ought to qualify the 'foreseeable' bit... however there is no point in 'baying at the moon', because ETH, 'hobbled' by many defensive staff injuries has not made the right back-up decisions.
We are in a hole and Sir Jim and his new management team have yet to get their feet under the table, yet alone plan our way out. The cost of paying off ETH under the new FFP rules and the lack of European income would leave us hamstrung on a potential transfer pot for next season.
I cannot see any manager with potential wanting to come to United until they can see the way the wind is blowing when Sir Jim and his team finally take to the field.

If the 'wheels do come off' for ETH early next season, then I can see a move to ease him out and hand the job (temporarily) to Steve Mclaren. However, IMO there is no sense at the moment, to rush to turf him out.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Moyes has won a European trophy and Ten Hag hasn’t. In fact we were thrashed by Sevilla, although admittedly in the Europa league. I don’t think the comparison between Moyes and Ten Hag is as ridiculous as it sounds, atleast on the basis of what’s been achieved anyway. Dutch league titles have little meaning, considering how Frank De Boer got found out in the Premier League.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Perhaps I ought to qualify the 'foreseeable' bit... however there is no point in 'baying at the moon', because ETH, 'hobbled' by many defensive staff injuries has not made the right back-up decisions.
We are in a hole and Sir Jim and his new management team have yet to get their feet under the table, yet alone plan our way out. The cost of paying off ETH under the new FFP rules and the lack of European income would leave us hamstrung on a potential transfer pot for next season.
I cannot see any manager with potential wanting to come to United until they can see the way the wind is blowing when Sir Jim and his team finally take to the field.

If the 'wheels do come off' for ETH early next season then I can see a move to ease him out and hand the job (temporarily) to Steve Mclaren. However IMO there is no sense at the moment to rush to turf him out.

The cost of paying off ETH with one year left on his contract would be pennies compared to the cost of missing out on Europe for a second successive season.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I think the main difference is that the 'non-linear progress' and 'two steps forward, one back' never really happened with Arteta. It was some incremental progress for 2 seasons, followed by a really great season, and then some further incremental progress. But they consistently improved.

I think we can clearly say that is not the case with EtH, and this season, can be described as a 'horror' season. Even the most EtH sceptics would have laughed at the beginning of season if someone predicted that it would be this bad. So, I do not think that there are many analogies between EtH and Arteta. BTW, even if EtH would have had a very bad season last one, nothing would have justified this season (which is actually worse than Arteta's second).

Furthermore, the other big difference is that Arteta was a rookie manager, in his first job, having had just a couple of years experience in coaching. He was supposed to fail, and to learn in tje job. At the contrary, this is EtH's 5th managerial jobs, and he has been coaching since 2004. So I think it is a bit similar to comparing Garnacho and Rashford, you expect Garnacho to learn from experience but less so for Rashford who is already heavy experienced.

Fair enough, and I think the data you've presented on that does show that to be true. What it doesn't show, though, is the 'toing and froing' taking place within the individual seasons, particularly at the start. They were inconsistent with high highs and low lows, and that could easily be levelled at this current Utd side; all be it, I agree our lows have been lower! Horror season is correct, but I think too many people are analysing Ten Hags' entire coaching credentials on one horror season that, I honestly believe, in our current predicament, could happen to anyone. I know it sometimes reads like I'm saying he's blameless in all of this, but that really isn't my intention as I think he rightly should get attributed some of the blame, I just think the blame is quite evenly shared between the board (particularly recruitment), the players (either don't care, not good enough, or not a good tactical fit) and also just plain luck (the off the field issues and the injuries). It's been a perfect storm of shite situations and poor management across the board.

On your final point, yes expectations differ between the two based on previous experience. However, the context of the team he's joined and the way the club is being handled is different, too. Arteta came into Arsenal when they had appointed Edu, who had a clear direction he wanted to take the club. Utd, in contrast, have been rudderless for ten years, aside from the fleeting whims of each different manager. Arteta has overseen a cultural and tactical overhaul alongside his upper management team. Ten Hag has attempted to do the same, only by himself... Only a very select few managers would be able to handle that job individually, most (including any candidates we are linked with) would almost certainly also require the help of the upper management.

 

[Max_United]

As I love a quick search, you predicted us to finish 3rd this season. How does that correlate to what you've just written?

I feel like many of you are now in hindsight shitting on the squad and the players to defend a manager. If we setup with a proper shape all season chances are we'd have been in the top 4 fight. Yet he didn't and from that decision we've gained absolutely nothing. For that alone he deserves to go as it's a very very expensive mistake.

That is exactly what it is. When our performances and results go south, it somehow exclusively leads to reassessment of squad quality downwards, but not the manager ability.

And it is only the manager who gets all sorts of excuses and does not have any minimum level of performance that he has to achieve (even if mitigating circumstances exist). Those above and below him in the hierarchy are judged a lot more harshly by the same people (correctly by the way). As if mitigating circumstances exist only for manager, and as if EtH did not have any support or things going in his favour at all.

In short, I would really like to have some of the posters who defend EtH here on this forum ans my advocates on annual performance review in my job!

 

[JPRouve]

That is exactly what it is. When our performances and results go south, it somehow exclusively leads to reassessment of squad quality downwards, but not the manager ability.

And it is only the manager who gets all sorts of excuses and does not have any minimum level of performance that he has to achieve (even if mitigating circumstances exist). Those above and below him in the hierarchy are judged a lot more harshly by the same people (correctly by the way). As if mitigating circumstances exist only for manager, and as if EtH did not have any support or things going in his favour at all.

In short, I would really like to have some of the posters who defend EtH here on this forum ans my advocates on annual performance review in my job!

Only if your goal is to lose your job, the arguments aren't convincing.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

As I love a quick search, you predicted us to finish 3rd this season. How does that correlate to what you've just written?

I feel like many of you are now in hindsight shitting on the squad and the players to defend a manager. If we setup with a proper shape all season chances are we'd have been in the top 4 fight. Yet he didn't and from that decision we've gained absolutely nothing. For that alone he deserves to go as it's a very very expensive mistake.

Did I also predict us to have unprecedented injuries destabilising the entire team in the process? I also (perhaps naively) didn't expect Rashford to return to type again and thought he'd kick on. I also didn't predict the ownership issue would drag on for nearly as long again, bringing uncertainty. Frankly nobody could say with a straight face they anticipated all the multitude of issues we have faced this season to occur. Relative to our top level, they have made a massive difference, and it's certainly not particularly controversial to say if one/two of those issues had turned out differently, we could have got the top four.

As for the bolded, I'm not doing this. Since you have a propensity for digging up old posts, why don't you look through my posts and see just how much I will defend the players? I'm significantly more patient when it comes to the vast majority of players compared to the average fan (hell look at my username...I'm still waiting). We have tried to be more progressive this season, and our signings point towards us trying to move away from a pragmatic counterattacking style. Given those circumstances, it's sink or swim for a great deal of our players. That has, at the very least, done us a favour in terms of analysing truly who is good enough, and to be honest, there are not that many shocks on my end. There are some truly average players in this squad. We could have got away with it slightly (as we did last season) by having a fully fit squad. Once those key players go missing, the average players are forced to play and are painfully exposed.

 

[Maticmaker]

The cost of paying off ETH with one year left on his contract would be pennies compared to the cost of missing out on Europe for a second successive season.

As I am given to understand, it isn't just the actual cost of paying off ETH, but how the FFP have change their bean-counting rules, something to do with bring payments forward, carries higher risk and reduces scope later. I suppose it depends on how much transfer spending Sir Jim and his team are able/willing to countenance next season.

 

[stevoc]

If you were a top (or even aspiring) manager anywhere, with PL experience and you looked at United, as it now stands.
The changes at, but not of, ownership level; the squad of players we have available, with injuries, age issues, form history and future expectations; with a stadium that needs either a new build or major renovation, could you be tempted to come and live in the goldfish bowl?

So, ETH is staying for the foreseeable future... no brainer!

For £9m a year, yeah 99% of managers out there would bite your hand off.

 

[Revan]

Fair enough, and I think the data you've presented on that does show that to be true. What it doesn't show, though, is the 'toing and froing' taking place within the individual seasons, particularly at the start. They were inconsistent with high highs and low lows, and that could easily be levelled at this current Utd side; all be it, I agree our lows have been lower! Horror season is correct, but I think too many people are analysing Ten Hags' entire coaching credentials on one horror season that, I honestly believe, in our current predicament, could happen to anyone. I know it sometimes reads like I'm saying he's blameless in all of this, but that really isn't my intention as I think he rightly should get attributed some of the blame, I just think the blame is quite evenly shared between the board (particularly recruitment), the players (either don't care, not good enough, or not a good tactical fit) and also just plain luck (the off the field issues and the injuries). It's been a perfect storm of shite situations and poor management across the board.

On your final point, yes expectations differ between the two based on previous experience. However, the context of the team he's joined and the way the club is being handled is different, too. Arteta came into Arsenal when they had appointed Edu, who had a clear direction he wanted to take the club. Utd, in contrast, have been rudderless for ten years, aside from the fleeting whims of each different manager. Arteta has overseen a cultural and tactical overhaul alongside his upper management team. Ten Hag has attempted to do the same, only by himself... Only a very select few managers would be able to handle that job individually, most (including any candidates we are linked with) would almost certainly also require the help of the upper management.

I do not disagree with this. At the same time, the board already payed about this with Arnold, Murtough et al being sacked. The squad has been gutted, many senior players have already left in these two years and quite a few more will leave the summer, so they also paid for that. I think the off the field issues (if we are talking for Sancho, Antony, Greenwood) is a bit overstated cause Antony was out for like a month, Sancho was self-indicted wound and Greenwood situation was present before he came. The takeover is another issue though, definitely that might have affected things. Injuries have been bad, but there is a quite good chance that it is because of his shit tactics (players needed to be in sprints all the time).

Honestly, I think he would have been sacked already from virtually every big club. He would be the luckiest manager alive if he keeps his job. If that happens, I hope it all goes good and I turn out to be an idiot, and 2 decades from now I'll teach the impatient kids about that time when I wanted EtH sacked when they're being impatient with some other manager. But in all likelihood, it would just delay that decision by another 3-4 months and in a typical United fashion he'll get sacked around November/December (see Mourinho and Ole cases where it was obvious what will happen).

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

That is exactly what it is. When our performances and results go south, it somehow exclusively leads to reassessment of squad quality downwards, but not the manager ability.

And it is only the manager who gets all sorts of excuses and does not have any minimum level of performance that he has to achieve (even if mitigating circumstances exist). Those above and below him in the hierarchy are judged a lot more harshly by the same people (correctly by the way). As if mitigating circumstances exist only for manager, and as if EtH did not have any support or things going in his favour at all.

In short, I would really like to have some of the posters who defend EtH here on this forum ans my advocates on annual performance review in my job!

Nah maybe in some cases your right, but I don't think that applies to everyone and certainly doesn't apply to me. I know we have some very good players; in fact, I think many of our players (cough, Onana, Dalot, Maguire) are underrated. Having said that, we can't get away from the fact that this is still a Frankenstein squad filled with players either lacking the individual ability or the tactical ability to play how we want to. Ten Hag has without doubt also exposed his weaknesses this season, the difference between you and me is I can still see positives where you cannot. To my mind that doesn't make either of us right or wrong because nobody knows. I am just getting fed up with posters on here pigeon-holing any fan into a box who dares to suggest that maybe retaining Ten Hag is a better option than rolling the dice on a less-than-stellar option. I've said in other posts there are other managers I'd consider because Ten Hag isn't an infallible god, but there are not many that tick as many boxes, and I can conclusively say I will do a better job for us as a club in the long term.

 

[Maticmaker]

For £9m a year, yeah 99% of managers out there would bit your hand off.

Yes, I suppose they would, but I think we should be after the 1%... who would demand/deserve more!

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

What do you mean by respecting the heritage of the club? Do you think we're building towards a pro-active style of play under Ten Hag?

Basically don't be Mourinho and a massive cnut. Man Utd are bigger than any manager and managers should know their place in that.

I think he's clearly attempted to play a more pro-active style of play. It's fallen to pieces due to the injuries and circumstances around our season as well as some tactical naivety from Ten Hag. I think he was absolutely bang on in his interview with Neville though. You can either keep playing pragmatic counter-attacking football and get some short term results but never really build a truly great team. Or you can rip off the bandaid and commit to a vision even if it means using young players who are there for their potential above their current abilities, and even if it will badly expose those that arent suited. Over time, you replace those who are ill-suited, and you can make significant strides forward.

 

[stevoc]

Yes, I suppose they would, but I think we should be after the 1%... who would demand/deserve more!

Yeah more money probably.

Outside of 5 or so managers like Pep, Klopp, Arteta, Carlo etc I doubt there's anyone out there who wouldn't want to become the 5-6th highest paid coach on the planet.

 

[DSG]

Season in Review

The Ten Hag in club need to be put in their place. Let’s review the standout results and performances of this season, then tell me under what universe Ten Hag has done a good job preparing this team for match day:

1-3 loss Brighton at home
0-1 loss Crystal Palace at home
2-3 loss Galatassary at home
0-3 Man City at home. Expected, but still dominated
0-3 Newcastle Carabao cup loss at home
3-4 Copenhagen loss on the road
3-3 Galatasary draw on the road.
0-3 Bournemouth loss at home. Wow. A low point for sure.
1-2 Nottingham Forest loss on the road.
4-2 Newport County win. Gave up two goal lead to 4th tier side but came back.
1-2 Fulham. Another dreadful performance and home loss.
1-1 Brentford. Brentford had 31 shot attempts to our 11. Unbelievably poor performance.
2-2 Bournemouth. Gave up another 20 shots. We had 8.
3-4 Chelsea loss. Went down 0-2 with crap play, clawed our way back to lead 3-2 only to allow 2 injury time goals.
3-3 Coventry, we advance on penalties. Cruising at 3-0, 70min mark on was diabolical. Looked to have conceded the winning goal but goal chalked off by being offside by a gnat’s pubic hair.
1-1 Burnley. Another poor performance at home.
0-4 Crystal Palace. Thoroughly out coached and out played on the road. feck me, Ten hag did nothing right. We looked like we were playing together for the first time. Playing Eriksen as the sole DM with a CB pairing of Casemiro and a hobbled Johnny Evans. Colossally stupid, even for Ten Hag.

Were there 5 matches this season where we played well? Everton, Villa x1, Newcastle this past week. I’m struggling.

The guy has got to be sacked.

 

[Maticmaker]

Yeah more money probably.

Outside of 5 or so managers like Pep, Klopp, Arteta, Carlo etc I doubt there's anyone out there who wouldn't want to become the 5-6th highest paid coach on the planet.

If you want the big fish, you need to bait the hook effectively.... currently we don't have a rod, never mind a hook!

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Season in Review

The Ten Hag in club need to be put in their place. Let’s review the standout results and performances of this season, then tell me under what universe Ten Hag has done a good job preparing this team for match day:

1-3 loss Brighton at home
0-1 loss Crystal Palace at home
2-3 loss Galatassary at home
0-3 Man City at home. Expected, but still dominated
0-3 Newcastle Carabao cup loss at home
3-4 Copenhagen loss on the road
3-3 Galatasary draw on the road.
0-3 Bournemouth loss at home. Wow. A low point for sure.
1-2 Nottingham Forest loss on the road.
4-2 Newport County win. Gave up two goal lead to 4th tier side but came back.
1-2 Fulham. Another dreadful performance and home loss.
1-1 Brentford. Brentford had 31 shot attempts to our 11. Unbelievably poor performance.
2-2 Bournemouth. Gave up another 20 shots. We had 8.
3-4 Chelsea loss. Went down 0-2 with crap play, clawed our way back to lead 3-2 only to allow 2 injury time goals.
3-3 Coventry, we advance on penalties. Cruising at 3-0, 70min mark on was diabolical. Looked to have conceded the winning goal but goal chalked off by being offside by a gnat’s pubic hair.
1-1 Burnley. Another poor performance at home.
0-4 Crystal Palace. Thoroughly out coached and out played on the road. feck me, Ten hag did nothing right. We looked like we were playing together for the first time. Playing Eriksen as the sole DM with a CB pairing of Casemiro and a hobbled Johnny Evans. Colossally stupid, even for Ten Hag.

Were there 5 matches this season where we played well? Everton, Villa x1, Newcastle this past week. I’m struggling.

The guy has got to be sacked.

And what place is that? Why start the post with such an inflammatory and purposefully argumentative tone just because not everyone perfectly agrees?

 

[DSG]

Basically don't be Mourinho and a massive cnut. Man Utd are bigger than any manager and managers should know their place in that.

I think he's clearly attempted to play a more pro-active style of play. It's fallen to pieces due to the injuries and circumstances around our season as well as some tactical naivety from Ten Hag. I think he was absolutely bang on in his interview with Neville though. You can either keep playing pragmatic counter-attacking football and get some short term results but never really build a truly great team. Or you can rip off the bandaid and commit to a vision even if it means using young players who are there for their potential above their current abilities, and even if it will badly expose those that arent suited. Over time, you replace those who are ill-suited, and you can make significant strides forward.

Or, scenario 3, you can rip off the band aid, commit to a vision that doesn’t work and a shit tactician, and continue to slowly drift further down the table and into mediocrity despite spending lots of money.

Just because you aspire to play a certain kind of football doesn’t mean it will work in the PL. People seem to think that time and money will allow Ten Hag to realize his vision, but given the results trying to play this “style” this season, there’s a higher chance it will never work the way he envisions.

 

[strandty]

Careful with his words

 

[DSG]

And what place is that? Why start the post with such an inflammatory and purposefully argumentative tone just because not everyone perfectly agrees?

Just a list of results and performances as a reminder — this is the shit you are defending. If there were green shoots of progress, I’d be with you. There aren’t. We can only evaluate based on performances and results. If we look realistically at the situation, we can see that he hasn’t earned the right to be the manager of Manchester United. Not good enough.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Or, scenario 3, you can rip off the band aid, commit to a vision that doesn’t work and a shit tactician, and continue to slowly drift further down the table and into mediocrity despite spending lots of money.

Just because you aspire to play a certain kind of football doesn’t mean it will work in the PL. People seem to think that time and money will allow Ten Hag to realize his vision, but given the results trying to play this “style” this season, there’s a higher chance it will never work the way he envisions.

Yeh that's absolutely a risk and then it comes down to how much do you rate and believe in Ten Hag as a coach. Personally I still think he's a top class coach and would give him the opportunity to try and get it working. If others don't feel the same that's fine and understandable after this horrendous season. I think I've seen enough in the bright moments though to think he can get us playing far more effectively with the right personnel involved.

 

[DSG]

Careful with his words

He’s absolutely right. It’s not about the manager. It’s about the club.

 

[RedC]

It shot up 7% since palace

Have you considered that this is just more people voting their opinions?

 

[DSG]

Yeh that's absolutely a risk and then it comes down to how much do you rate and believe in Ten Hag as a coach. Personally I still think he's a top class coach and would give him the opportunity to try and get it working. If others don't feel the same that's fine and understandable after this horrendous season. I think I've seen enough in the bright moments though to think he can get us playing far more effectively with the right personnel involved.

This season? Can you list 5 performances that were worthy of Manchester United?