Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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It's not, but picking the starting XI he did today is.

Eriksen as false 9 with Rashford out wide? The latter is the more painfully obvious option!
McFred
Shaw

Bizarre subs leaving McTominay on booked and hooking Fred and then a triple sub in the 90th min?

He got it horrendously wrong.

Exactly. I said it before, but it was a disasterclass from EtH. Any other manager and we would be laughing. He got literally everything wrong. Yes we don’t have a good squad, but it was more than a winnable game if our manager would have picked a normal starting 11. Like what was he thinking. He literally played into all of our weaknesses.

McFred isn’t a good duo, but EtH threw them under the bus. Left them alone in midfield and asked them to be our playermakers. And then put our actual playmaker on top as false 9. Clueless tactics from EtH.
 


I said in the match day thread but the only silver lining is that ETH will learn from this game.

He talks the talk and even if things 'don't change', I like his style and it will only go to show that it is the players that will need improving/replacing.

I'm still optimistic for the season with 'low' expectations of course.
 
I know it's one fecking game and let's see where we are midseason but i'd be lying if I said i wasn't concerned, less with ten Hag and more with what he's got to work with.

Alarm bells were ringing when the club/he himself implied that these players were far better than they were showing last season when personally, I think they were set up in such a way under Ole to play to their strengths and mask their many deficiencies. You just can't challenge for league titles or build a foundation with a midfield of Mctominay and Fred, and can't challenge for leagues with those full-backs either. It's impossible. If you don't play on the counter you'll have a hard time making top 4 with this lot.

Burn it all and start from the beginning....which is what should have happened at the end of last season.
 
People already writing him off are a special kind of negative though. Even by SadCafe standards.
Same as with Murtough, Solskjaer and every new player.....why is such a problem to some people to say how things are AT THAT moment?
Eth is a great coach and i have no doubt that he will build a fantastic team. I am hugely optimistic about him. But why should be a sin to rate his performances game by game?
Today, imo, he did a few mistakes. Playing McT, playing with false 9 and playing Maguire. Why is so bad to give a comment like that? Nobody is calling for his sack or thinking that he is not the best option for us.
 
I'm all for letting the manager have input into signings but the club should've insisted we fix the parts of the squad we all knew were broken. CM, DM, RB, CF and RW needed to be addressed. Either Murtough etc are too weak to insist on strengthening those positions over anything else or they don't know what the problems are. Either way, they've completely fecked this summer up.
 
It's not, but picking the starting XI he did today is.

Eriksen as false 9 with Rashford out wide? The latter is the more painfully obvious option!
McFred
Shaw

Bizarre subs leaving McTominay on booked and hooking Fred and then a triple sub in the 90th min?

He got it horrendously wrong.

The whole of my post, except for the first sentence, is about all the things you mention. He didn't get it "horrendously" wrong. He got it "alarmingly" wrong. Which is worse, but it's still very early to draw safe conclusions. We can't do anything but wait and see.
 
I’m not sure he has watched a single game from last season. That’s the most worrying thing. It shows massive arrogance to play that starting line up or massive ignorance. Both are worrying m.
 
Our manager threads always become bipolar, but it is happening too soon this time.
Either we accept we are going to give eth some time or no point hiring a new manager.
He definitely needs time, but also the board need to financially back him, not scrap about trying to fob him off with any old rubbish. He asks for players go all out to get them.
 
Fell into same trap as LVG did. "Every player deserves a second chance".
What a load of BS.
It’s about 4th chance with a lot of them.
I honestly believe we are about 3 games away from the players stopping whatever running they’re doing now and giving up, a frustrated Bruno hitting nothing but Hollywood balls etc. it’s why we needed a huge turnover in the summer so now we’re stuck with the results. We are a mentally shot team and we’re being sent out in the 12th round to get our head kicked in
 
We honestly don't deserve any success going by the hack of some of our fans with the constant negatively around us.


Absolutely shocked he's getting it in loads today. Was even more shocking you could see people already firing blame his way before a ball was even kicked in the league.


Feels like a poisoned chalice these days,
 
Same as with Murtough, Solskjaer and every new player.....why is such a problem to some people to say how things are AT THAT moment?
Eth is a great coach and i have no doubt that he will build a fantastic team. I am hugely optimistic about him. But why should be a sin to rate his performances game by game?
Today, imo, he did a few mistakes. Playing McT, playing with false 9 and playing Maguire. Why is so bad to give a comment like that? Nobody is calling for his sack or thinking that he is not the best option for us.

Criticising stuff from today is totally different to writing him off completely, which is what people are doing? People are already saying he'll be gone at christmas, one season and he'll be done etc. Some of his decisions today were odd, fairs fair to question them.
 
The sorry state of our club is not on him.

The first half performance, though, is. As the commentator in my country said at one point, United were playing with a false #9, a false #10, a quasi #6 and a quasi #8. If there's a name for this, that would be "suicide tactics".

All the teams, in this first week, fielded tactics and player roles on which they had worked in their pre-seasons. Sorry, all but one. Again, the lack of depth is painfully obvious. But you can't have one injury sending you into the multiverse of tactics. Why have a pre-season, then? I believe ETH is a smart man, so won't see much of that in the following weeks. In any case, we aren't Ajax in the Eredivisie. The quality that can allow the manager to go a tad overboard with experimentations is simply not there. Furthermore, ETH is not facing, week in and week out, managers who try to make a stew out of the Dutch 433 no matter the defensive costs or the players weaknesses any more. At this level, most of the managers he'll come up against have earned their bread in the PL. If you offer them the three points, they'll take them. It goes without saying for Potter. This is something even Pep and Klopp were forced to realize sooner rather than later and make adjustments.

I argued at the start of the summer, when some on here were dreaming about Bruno or Eriksen as false #9s, that this is one of the toughest tactics to pull off in football and i would be unpleasantly surprised, if ETH tried it without coaching his team for at least a whole season and bringing in the players that will allow him to lay the foundations of his philosophy. Today, the most worrying fact for me was the "why". We basically sacrificed a forward role on the pitch so that we could get McTominay close to the box. That's comical stuff, really.

And as the saying goes, if you don't show the football gods respect, they will punish you. First, goal: McT gets easily dispossessed in the attacking half, Fred does what Fred does best (gets drawn to the ball like a headless chicken), and a forward's simple run (the kind of run we chose not to have) opens up the defence. The second goal was pretty much the same, with Eriksen getting caught while McT was sauntering at the edge of the box. Which brings up another issue that goes back to the Solskjaer debacle last season. If you have limited players on the ball, the best thing to do is keep it plain and simple. The likes of McFred, Dalot, even Rashford and Martial aren't exactly made for expansive football.

In the second half, things got just a tiny bit better because the roles made more sense. Eriksen isn't a holding midfielder, but he can pass the ball through the lines better than Fred. Which makes the debacle with FdJ reflect even worse on the club, because it made pretty clear how desperate we are for a player in those areas. Also, if we are going to use the Dane heavily in our possession game, and with the fact that both Martial and Ronnie like to play in between the lines... that kind of makes Bruno redundant, doesn't it? And it showed today. And, given Bruno's numbers, that could be a riddle to solve.

Excellent post.
 
Well unless he’s Jesus he can’t do miracles. Are people going to let it sink in yet that this is a huge job and it will take a season and a few more new players till it starts to bear fruit.

he needs time to get his coaching idea across

please tell me that people aren’t sharpening the knives already, our fanbase truly are toxic. I can see exactly what ETH is saying, over the years we have bought the third fourth and fifth choice options. And it has gotten us where we are, he’s kid down a challenge to the club to get what his required and not simply what they think we need. Any bits we make will be attributable to ETH (how many managers have we had that have had players pushed on to them) so I f he had a a success it will be down to his philosophy and his team……the same applies if he fails (as don’t think that he will).
 
We honestly don't deserve any success going by the hack of some of our fans with the constant negatively around us.


Absolutely shocked he's getting it in loads today. Was even more shocking you could see people already firing blame his way before a ball was even kicked in the league.


Feels like a poisoned chalice these days,
The owners and board are making it a poisoned chalice by refusing to invest properly in the squad. A complete overhaul was needed this summer and we didn't get it.
 
Exactly. I said it before, but it was a disasterclass from EtH. Any other manager and we would be laughing. He got literally everything wrong. Yes we don’t have a good squad, but it was more than a winnable game if our manager would have picked a normal starting 11. Like what was he thinking. He literally played into all of our weaknesses.

McFred isn’t a good duo, but EtH threw them under the bus. Left them alone in midfield and asked them to be our playermakers. And then put our actual playmaker on top as false 9. Clueless tactics from EtH.

All true and having listened to him post match, he hasn't taken any blame at all. Just blamed the players.



I said in the match day thread but the only silver lining is that ETH will learn from this game.

He talks the talk and even if things 'don't change', I like his style and it will only go to show that it is the players that will need improving/replacing.

I'm still optimistic for the season with 'low' expectations of course.


I do hope you're right, however I have the gut feeling he is over confident in his abilities and will continue to persist with the likes of Shaw, McFred and one or two others thinking he can train them.

Some players you simply cannot coach to your needs.

The whole of my post, except for the first sentence, is about all the things you mention. He didn't get it "horrendously" wrong. He got it "alarmingly" wrong. Which is worse, but it's still very early to draw safe conclusions. We can't do anything but wait and see.

Really? Apologies I honestly didn't see it.

Well there must be some truth to it if we both said it and others are agreeing with it all.
 
All he has to do is never play McTominay and Rashford and drop Bruno. He’ll get plenty of time so long as he doesn’t persist with those trio of utter dross.

And play who instead? I’ll bet my left but he doesn’t want to play them, but who does he play? This club have tried to saddle far too many mangers with who they think are the right fit and look where that has gotten us. Jose tried making his point (yes not exactly how most would have done it) and look what ensued.
 

As a good manager this is what ETH is supposed to think. This is why I blame the structure. He wasn't here when they were shitting the bed under 3 managers, but our DoF, Fletcher and co certainly was and still made the informed decision to come into a new season with McFred even after it had lost superior talent like Pogba and Matic. So basically it's not even the same midfield that finished 2nd, it's worse.
 
We honestly don't deserve any success going by the hack of some of our fans with the constant negatively around us.


Absolutely shocked he's getting it in loads today. Was even more shocking you could see people already firing blame his way before a ball was even kicked in the league.


Feels like a poisoned chalice these days,

It's not like fans positivity brings success to a football club. Many fans accepted mediocrity a long time ago, since LVG, Mourinho and Ole. Our ceiling this year would be top 4 so what should the fans do exactly?
 
There's nothing wrong with pointing out the mistakes and naivety he showed today. Every hope and expectation that he will have quickly learned a lot from this.
 
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Dr Rangnick? :lol::lol:
 
I do hope you're right, however I have the gut feeling he is over confident in his abilities and will continue to persist with the likes of Shaw, McFred and one or two others thinking he can train them.

Some players you simply cannot coach to your needs.

I think the signings of Malacia, Eriksen and Martinez shows he's already thought about the player combinations he can play.

He has belief in his ability and his ideals, which is far more belief I have in the players.

We will see if he improves but like I said, he's saying all the right things for me. They may be empty words for now but it shows he realises the issues at the very least, which is more than what Ralf and Ole did imo.
 
My main complaint with Ten Hag today was using Fred and Mctominay as a pair.

The problem with these two is neither have the passing ability or concentration to help control the tempo from deep. The first half today was a prime example and the difference when Eriksen dropped in to Fred’s place was huge (and that’s not even his best position).

No idea why we went with them as a pair today given the team we were up against and the fact we were at home and going to see plenty of the ball.

Ultimately I feel the false 9 experiment cost us and is a black mark against Ten Hag early on. He should have stated Eriksen with Mctominay/Fred and tried something else further forward.
 
please tell me that people aren’t sharpening the knives already, our fanbase truly are toxic. I can see exactly what ETH is saying, over the years we have bought the third fourth and fifth choice options. And it has gotten us where we are, he’s kid down a challenge to the club to get what his required and not simply what they think we need. Any bits we make will be attributable to ETH (how many managers have we had that have had players pushed on to them) so I f he had a a success it will be down to his philosophy and his team……the same applies if he fails (as don’t think that he will).

The problem is, the knives never stopped sharpening. These bunch of players put in the the worst shift imaginable last season including 0-5 defeat to Liverpool at Old Trafford. Most of of these players are still on the pitch and the board have made an absolute tit out of the fan base in the transfer window that followed. Do you honestly expect anything else?
 
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The problem is, the knives never stopped sharpening. These bunch of players put in the the worst shift imaginable last season including 0-5 defeat to Liverpool at Old Trafford. Most of of these players are still on the pitch and the board have made an absolute tit out of the fan base in the transfer window that followed. Do you honestly expect anythig else?
The poster is talking about the manager and yes I expect something else after one game and lack of transfer support
 
The poster is talking about the manager and yes I expect something else after one game and lack of transfer support

I'm not talking about the manager either, just the general sharpening of knives not being surprising at all. I don't really see anyone genuinely turning on the manager himself.
 
As someone who wasn’t shouting from the roof tops when we were chasing this bloke, performances/result do very little to give me any confidence in him. I will of course support him as I have done with every manager we’ve had, to a certain point and I’m under no illusions as to just how big a job he has in front of him but he has a lot to prove before I’m fully accepting of him and with this current bunch of players, it makes his joh that much harder.
 
Ronaldo just doesn't want to be there his facial expressions tell everything, just let him go, he will be toxic in the dressing room otherwise.
 
And play who instead? I’ll bet my left but he doesn’t want to play them, but who does he play? This club have tried to saddle far too many mangers with who they think are the right fit and look where that has gotten us. Jose tried making his point (yes not exactly how most would have done it) and look what ensued.

If you exclude new signings then he could bring Varane or Lindelof in and play Martinez and Eriksen in midfield. That's such an obvious way to improve us immediately.

As for Rashford, drop him and play pretty much anyone else. Garnacho. Malacia. Any youngster would do a better job than Rashford is capable of on either wing.

But the larger picture is that we could have signed Bissouma. We could have signed Neves or Ruiz two months ago. We could have signed Nkunku. But we've spent 3 months fixated on De Jong and Antony.


Signings or not there's no excuse to start McTominay and Rashford next week. None. I'm a massive Hag fan and think he was the best possible manager we could have hired, but that's not enough to overlook criminal team selections.
 
I think the signings of Malacia, Eriksen and Martinez shows he's already thought about the player combinations he can play.

He has belief in his ability and his ideals, which is far more belief I have in the players.

We will see if he improves but like I said, he's saying all the right things for me. They may be empty words for now but it shows he realises the issues at the very least, which is more than what Ralf and Ole did imo.

I believe Ole did see the issues however lacked the spine to follow through on making the changes that needed to be. Basically, too nice and it cost him.
 
The problem is, the knives never stopped sharpening. These bunch of players put in the the worst shift imaginable last season including 0-5 defeat to Liverpool at Old Trafford. Most of of these players are still on the pitch and the board have made an absolute tit out of the fan base in the transfer window that followed. Do you honestly expect anythig else?
It’s more than stupid to think the only way to win today is that we should replace most of the players today.
 
My main complaint with Ten Hag today was using Fred and Mctominay as a pair.

The problem with these two is neither have the passing ability or concentration to help control the tempo from deep. The first half today was a prime example and the difference when Eriksen dropped in to Fred’s place was huge (and that’s not even his best position).

No idea why we went with them as a pair today given the team we were up against and the fact we were at home and going to see plenty of the ball.

Ultimately I feel the false 9 experiment cost us and is a black mark against Ten Hag early on. He should have stated Eriksen with Mctominay/Fred and tried something else further forward.

I would bet next match Erikson starts in the middle with one of fred or mctominah (hopefully fred).

We badly need a top MF who can retain the ball under pressure and play one touch passes.

Erikson made a huge difference in MF today in the second half.
 
It’s more than stupid to think the only way to win today is that we should replace most of the players today.
If thats more than stupid... What is the only way to win today?

I swear people will start blaming the manager again in a couple of weeks and it's barely funny. They will start speculating on certain weaknesses, like how he is weak in the transfer market etc... Dropping standards etc.
 
I would bet next match Erikson starts in the middle with one of fred or mctominah (hopefully fred).

We badly need a top MF who can retain the ball under pressure and play one touch passes.

Erikson made a huge difference in MF today in the second half.

it would very much improve us both defensively and going forward
 
"If you analyse the situation, it's not that difficult to analyse. The team needs a rebuild, not because some players have to go but quite a few have no contracts anymore, their contracts are expiring, then for me it's clear there will be six, seven, eight, maybe 10 new players" Ralf Rangnick

Rangnick wasn’t joking when he said we needed 10 new signings. A managerial change without a squad overhaul, won’t bring about any significant progression.
 
If you exclude new signings then he could bring Varane or Lindelof in and play Martinez and Eriksen in midfield. That's such an obvious way to improve us immediately.

As for Rashford, drop him and play pretty much anyone else. Garnacho. Malacia. Any youngster would do a better job than Rashford is capable of on either wing.

But the larger picture is that we could have signed Bissouma. We could have signed Neves or Ruiz two months ago. We could have signed Nkunku. But we've spent 3 months fixated on De Jong and Antony.


Signings or not there's no excuse to start McTominay and Rashford next week. None. I'm a massive Hag fan and think he was the best possible manager we could have hired, but that's not enough to overlook criminal team selections.

Drop Sancho too.
 
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