Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[VP89]

There were. He made them better defensively.

During the 18/19 season, Arsenal conceded 51 goals from 38 PL games under Emery.

When Arteta took control in late December 2019, Arsenal had conceded 27 PL goals from 17 PL games under Emery. They only conceded 21 goals from the next 21 games with Arteta in charge. 2 clean sheets under Emery vs 8 under Arteta.

They then only conceded 39 goals the following season. 20/21 season.

They then started to evolve in terms of attacking during the 5th place season. 21/22 season.

They may have improved defensively but they were extremely disjointed in the middle and in attack. Ten Hag in his first year conceded as many goals as Arsenal did in their best season in 2 decades.

You could argue he showed more progress than Arteta did in far less time, albeit with a complete and utter nosedive thereafter.

 

[NLunited]

But he doesn't have anywhere close to the players he needs to make it work, it's just woeful management. It doesn't work, his plan has failed. The best moments this season have all come in total Chaos Ball matches with no real rhythm and just football mayhem.

I don't think he's anywhere closer to understanding the PL than when he arrived, and that's mental.

Yeah with Maguire in backline it will never work, and Evans (God bless him).

He‘s been let down by not shifting Maguire and McT. I like Scott, but he is not the right fit.

The direct speedy attack bit of his strategy makes it look like chaos ball when teams attack us with speed like Chelsea. Where we need improving is in keeping the ball, so that we don‘t turn it over all the time.

That is our biggest issue this season. Turnovers.

 

[Juice Juiced]

Ten Hag made us defensively solid last season, right?

He did not. We leaked about 20 goals against Liv, City And Arsenal. Thats not solid at all.

 

[Berbaclass]

He did not. We leaked about 20 goals against Liv, City And Arsenal. Thats not solid at all.

We kept the most clean sheets in the league pal.

 

[hobbers]

The boom bust cycle continues and will peak again just before the arsenal game

 

[Juice Juiced]

We kept the most clean sheets in the league pal.

Clean sheets are meaningles If you get destroyed every other game. And that trend countinued in second season. His luck just balanced out.

The boom bust cycle continues and will peak again just before the arsenal game

It is so obvious that we are in downhill spiral. I am dreading what would happen if he get another season. Probably finish in the bottom half of the table. Idk what people sees in EtH

 

[DSG]

The boom bust cycle continues and will peak again just before the arsenal game

Actually, I’m sensing resignation. There are some attempts to defend him, but it’s pretty halfhearted at this point.

I wonder when the hammer will drop? After the Arsenal match, or after the FA Cup? What is it, 3 weeks until the FA Cup? Probably enough time to implement tactics if they are simple enough.

 

[Berbaclass]

Clean sheets are meaningles If you get destroyed every other game. And that trend countinued in second season. His luck just balanced out.



It is so obvious that we are in downhill spiral. I am dreading what would happen if he get another season. Probably finish in the bottom half of the table. Idk what people sees in EtH

We conceded less goals in ETH's first season than the previous two seasons.

 

[red woppit]

We are all fans at the end of the day. I’ll always respect Ole and thank him for coming into the club when there was a lot of poison. He wasn’t good enough in the end, but for me, those were the best years post SAF. No, we weren’t playing like Barca or Bayern but there was a lot of positivity. Of course, his last season was awful, but I think the job just got too big for him.

I think many of us — I’m guilty of it too — get into seeing things as black and white, especially over the internet. Really things are more nuanced, more shades of gray.

I think the return of Ronaldo scuppered the season for us, and I remember the media talking to Ole at the start of that pre season and he was hoping for several new signings. He didn't mention who, but I'm pretty sure that many of the signings made were not Ole's first choices, which may have been a stipulation of him signing a permanent contract, that he didn't have full control of players coming in, but obviously I don't know that, but prior to that season, United were playing some nice, enjoyable attacking football, but that season the wheels fell off, and finished up playing some dire stuff.
Ole may not have been a top quality manager, and when the going got a bit rough, he was unsure how to fix it, but I have a lot of time for him.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

Every day longer the Pep Guardiola is my idol is still here the longer the rebuild will take.

 

[Redstain]

Erik isn't good enough, critically United haven't performed well since winning the domestic cup last season and doing the double over Barcelona.

Injuries won't change the teams dynamic when even against Wolves, the fully fit eleven had 46% possession being the home side including Mainoo, Shaw, Varane and Martinez narrowly scraped a win. That's not a benchmark you can build from.

Subsequently if United retain the current manager and the performance levels don't improve, the blame has to shift and the hierarchy will deserve the brunt of the criticism over the manager. It will demonstrate poor judgement from a standards and procedural standpoint.

If they fail to find an adequate replacement now, does that landscape change next season? If anything, it's even worse because any potential manager that has the backing of being 'credible' by consensus will only be available due to being sacked. INEOS can easily snooker themselves at the end of the season.

 

[leontas]

We conceded less goals in ETH's first season than the previous two seasons.

We conceded the same amount of goals last season as Moyes’s season at Utd. So I wouldn’t say we were particularly good defensively. That’s the 6th best defensive record in the last 10 years post-SAF.

Most importantly ETH has done nothing to improve our attacking output.

 

[hobbers]

We conceded less goals in ETH's first season than the previous two seasons.

Until he stopped copying previous managers work and started putting his own mark on things.

 

[Berbaclass]

Until he stopped copying previous managers work and started putting his own mark on things.

,
I'm not disputing that I'm simply stating that our defensive record improved, we didn't build on it granted, but I think the constant changing of the defence and not having a LB for most of the time is an acceptable reason.

 

[Rista]

If they fail to find an adequate replacement now, does that landscape change next season? If anything, it's even worse because any potential manager that has the backing of being 'credible' by consensus will only be available due to being sacked. INEOS can easily snooker themselves at the end of the season.

This is why I don't understand people saying there are no good candidates so let's give him until October or whatever. If there are no "good" candidates now, who are we going to hire mid season then? Apparently people don't want interims, they don't want managers who have been sacked previously. Who is left then who is unavailable now.

INEOS will never get an easier chance to get rid of a manager. I will be shocked if they don't.

 

[hobbers]

Nice to see Poch at least acting like a failed manager with a spine and ability to reflect. None of the bullish charade, excuses, gaslighting and desperately lieing about his achievements this season to cling onto his job and ego.

It's 'we'll talk in the summer and either agree to carry on or we wont, and if we split, that's fine'

 

[Rojofiam]

Propah Brexit. The man schooled Southgate with a bunch of low-quality players, has actually won the PL and has an idea how to implement a style.

Miles above the current fraud and the waistcoat fraud.

He won't be my go-to guy but this is just a foolish position.

There's a reason he hasn't managed a club since 2018. And that was Zenit. His last big club was Inter 8 years ago. No thanks. International football is miles behind club football and there's a reason that the best managers in the sport are all managing clubs instead of nations. Nagelsmann is the only exception currently. Previously it was still only Enrique and Flick.

Mancini was at City as well, like I said, no thanks.

 

[red woppit]

Clean sheets are meaningles If you get destroyed every other game. And that trend countinued in second season. His luck just balanced out.



It is so obvious that we are in downhill spiral. I am dreading what would happen if he get another season. Probably finish in the bottom half of the table. Idk what people sees in EtH

We kept the most clean sheets in the league pal.

I believe a certain David De Gea was in goal last season, interesting that we kept most clean sheets.

 

[Berbaclass]

I believe a certain David De Gea was in goal last season, interesting that we kept most clean sheets.

Onana is statistically one of the best goalkeepers in the league. The main difference is that we had a settled back line.

 

[Sarni]

Nice to see Poch at least acting like a failed manager with a spine and ability to reflect. None of the bullish charade, excuses, gaslighting and desperately lieing about his achievements this season to cling onto his job and ego.

It's 'we'll talk in the summer and either agree to carry on or we wont, and if we split, that's fine'

He has not been let down by his players who did not try and threw him under the bus, and by his management who could not get him all the players he wanted and abused by the press on unprecedented levels like ETH has been though.

ETH has been one of the most mistreated managers in history of football, by players, press, fans and club management.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Onana is statistically one of the best goalkeepers in the league. The main difference is that we had a settled back line.

No he isn't,he just has a high save percentage because he faces a lot of shots.

 

[Max_United]

This is why I don't understand people saying there are no good candidates so let's give him until October or whatever. If there are no "good" candidates now, who are we going to hire mid season then? Apparently people don't want interims, they don't want managers who have been sacked previously. Who is left then who is unavailable now.

INEOS will never get an easier chance to get rid of a manager. I will be shocked if they don't.

This and one of the main points of hiring top people above the manager is precisely that they would be able to identify a non-obvious candidate for manager who would be able to step up to a new level/outperform expectations.

I mean Murtough and Fletcher identified and hired one of the “standout” candidates who was craved by the vast majority of fans and look how it panned out. Yes, the new guys might also screw it up but the point is that they would be correct a lot more often than the average fan, and hire a successful manager in less attempts.

I also find it interesting that the same people bringing up “no obvious replacement” argument usually are in favour of getting rid of 10+ players in the summer. As if somehow it is very different to manager replacement - and it will be very easy to replace large quantity of player with obviously much better ones (with possibly no Europe and FFP restrictions).

But it wont be easy. In most cases we will have to gamble, to go for non-obvious targets with potential but no guarantee of ultimately being better/step up to highest level. But they will presumably be more fitting with club’s vision and style of play. And some of them won’t work out and it is ok. Same with manager.

Reshuffling the top and bottom of hierarchy but leaving in place the guy in the middle who is underperforming because of “no obvious better candidate” just does not make any sense. He is not Pep or Klopp ffs. And if you are making hundreds of excuses for him - why not for players or Murtough then? I am sure they also have many “valid excuses” for underperformance.

 

[Berbaclass]

No he isn't,he just has a high save percentage because he faces a lot of shots.

He’s got a high save percentage because he makes lots of saves mate. What else would you like him to do? Not make as many?

 

[mu4c_20le]

He’s got a high save percentage because he makes lots of saves mate. What else would you like him to do? Not make as many?

Could say the same for any of the relegation clubs. Luton and Sheffield's keepers don't get half as much praise. How does it make him one of the best goalkeepers in the league?

 

[hobbers]

He has not been let down by his players who did not try and threw him under the bus, and by his management who could not get him all the players he wanted and abused by the press on unprecedented levels like ETH has been though.

ETH has been one of the most mistreated managers in history of football, by players, press, fans and club management.

Very true. I actually cried a little when I woke up this morning just thinking about how awful ETH's last few weeks must have been for him. How cornered and alone he must feel without a warm comforting structure around him, while players who have a long track record of throwing United managers under the bus, like Casemiro and Onana, keep sticking the knife in.

 

[RedDevil@84]

How does it make him one of the best goalkeepers in the league?

He said statistically, didn't he?

 

[RedSky]

Lets not pretend that last season was some defensive masterclass. It was an ordinary season. In the past 10 seasons we've had 5 seasons with less goals conceded. It was the 7th worst season for goals scored and 7th on Goal Difference. We did somehow manage to get the 2nd highest points tally despite all that shite. We just had this odd stat of either winning or losing hence the high points tally and yet Ten Hags longest streak of games unbeaten is only 6 league games. Which is a horrific stat.

 

[Berbaclass]

Could say the same for any of the relegation clubs. Luton and Sheffield's keepers don't get half as much praise. How does it make him one of the best goalkeepers in the league?

Because he prevents goals more than anyone.

 

[Sarni]

Because he prevents goals more than anyone.

He's actually been pretty good in the league and prevented many goals. He's being bombarded with insane (unprecedented, hehe) amount of shots though.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Because he prevents goals more than anyone.

I've not seen this number anywhere else. Everyone else uses PSxG to rate goalkeepers and he is comfortably average. Martinez and Pickford have been the best goalkeepers in the league this season, followed by Areola, Sa, and the Burnley keeper.

 

[mu4c_20le]

He's actually been pretty good in the league and prevented many goals. He's being bombarded with insane (unprecedented, hehe) amount of shots though.

It's worth noting that he and Vicario were near the top in March, but the last month and a half really messed up both their numbers.

 

[Berbaclass]

I've not seen this number anywhere else. Everyone else uses PSxG to rate goalkeepers and he is comfortably average. Martinez and Pickford have been the best goalkeepers in the league this season, followed by Areola, Sa, and the Burnley keeper.

That is using PSxG. They rank him in the 94th percentile.

 

[SAF is the GOAT]

 

[croadyman]

They don't need reminding every presser about how much you blame injuries,mind you why they haven't quizzed more about why we keep picking them up is another thing.

 

[Telsim]

Could say the same for any of the relegation clubs. Luton and Sheffield's keepers don't get half as much praise. How does it make him one of the best goalkeepers in the league?

You need to separate your dislike for the manager from the performance of the players he brought. Onana has been very good, all things considered.

United are 6th in Shots on Target Against, but Onana's Post-Shot xG minus Goals Allowed is positive (+1.8). Only West Ham have faced more Shots on Target and have a more positive Post-Shot xG. And Areola has been one of their best players, if not in fact the best. Luck plays apart in that, but it's not everything.

Is Onana top class? No. Are there situations where he could have and should have done better? Yes. And every keeper is prone to mistakes, just like Neuer kept Bayern in the game, then buried them in an instant. But when you are getting blasted week after week, you are going to let goals in. That's just statistics. You also have to remember that it was assumed he was being brought because the team was going to make the switch away from Oleball and towards a more controlled style of play - something to cater to his strengths. Needless to say, this has not happened. The opposite, in fact.

 

[croadyman]

I would agree entirely with your comments and would add that I am not even sure ETH himself wants to stay on.

In fact its even possible he will be needed to stay on because the 'sh** shifting' at OT has not been done yet, and Sir Jim and the new team haven't really started to move ..yet, and will still need a scapegoat to fire somewhere down the line.
If a 'fluke' win over City in the FA Cup occurs (not entirely out of the question given the run of luck we've had in the competition this year) I think Erik will stay and the real slog begins next season.

We are way down the 'road to hell paved with good intentions' and don't see any light in the distance.

Yeah there is a distinct possibility of this

 

[Sarni]

Very bullish. As expected, he's probably been briefed of the new contract.

 

[Berbaclass]

You need to separate your dislike for the manager from the performance of the players he brought. Onana has been very good, all things considered.

United are 6th in Shots on Target Against, but Onana's Post-Shot xG minus Goals Allowed is positive (+1.8). Only West Ham have faced more Shots on Target and have a more positive Post-Shot xG. And Areola has been one of their best players, if not in fact the best. Luck plays apart in that, but it's not everything.

Is Onana top class? No. Are there situations where he could have and should have done better? Yes. And every keeper is prone to mistakes, just like Neuer kept Bayern in the game, then buried them in an instant. But when you are getting blasted week after week, you are going to let goals in. That's just statistics. You also have to remember that it was assumed he was being brought because the team was going to make the switch away from Oleball and towards a more controlled style of play - something to cater to his strengths. Needless to say, this has not happened. The opposite, in fact.

Very true.

 

[Telsim]

Very bullish. As expected, he's probably been briefed of the new contract.

He is getting a new traveling bag, not a new contract. What?

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Reminds me of the Sunday Supplement where every journalist’s opinion about who was a good player seemed to be almost entirely based on who had allowed themselves to be interviewed the previous week. Bonus points for picking the journo from the train station and being polite to staff in front of them.

If this were Salford City, he would've been sacked in December. Neville is a hypocrite.