Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Jev said:
Yes, a big part. But I believe it would still be dangerous to leave huge gaps of space even if Martinez played in defence. And if the gaps are caused by the replacements being slower or less proactive than the preferred players, it’s the manager’s job to see this and make changes accordingly.
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We all know having a consistent line up means you are going to be solid defensively, by default having an inconsistent line up means you are going to be giving up more chances.

We are playing with a make shift back four. 5 out of 6 Cb's are out, as well as both Lb's. We have had an unprecedented number of different back lines starting, in front of a new keeper, and behind a 18 year old who only made his debut 5 months ago.

When ETH came in the players on highest wages were De Gea, Ronaldo, Martial, Sancho, Maguire. Two have gone, one going, one half way out the door, and the other we agreed a transfer for. Ole had the right idea of wanting players with the right character but the wrong execution. ETH is changing the culture bit by bit, and one thing you cannot deny is the players are still playing for him.

We are going through growing pains (like Arteta did at arsenal), with a young core team, inc Mainoo, Kambwala, Hojlund, Garnacho, Diallo, all kids.
 
Of all the games against the bottom 10 sides we've looked convincing once, away at Everton. This isn't the sign of a side in transition, this is the sign of a poor team. We're played Coventry and Newport and couldn't dominate them.

It's time for a change
 
The defence and holding midfield positions evidently can’t be solved by EtH until the summer.

Good news is the season only has 5 more games to go…the biggest cheer will be when it ends and 23/24 season can be forgotten.
 
The fact we've had so many injuries is the only argument that's on his side in the keep/sack ten Hag debate. But with the performances and results we've had, that excuse is not strong enough. And some of the recent games like Brentford and Chelsea away, Coventry in the cup, Burnley yesterday... All those felt like a confirmation that he should be leaving.

We've got a decent set of fixtures left in the season but hardly any United fan would be surprised if we fail to win even 1 of those games. We won only one game since March 17th and that was against a rock bottom Sheffield United (no disrespect to them) that got officially relegated few days later.
 
Widow said:
Of all the games against the bottom 10 sides we've looked convincing once, away at Everton. This isn't the sign of a side in transition, this is the sign of a poor team. We're played Coventry and Newport and couldn't dominate them.

It's time for a change
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I'd say Everton away and West Ham at home have been our only convincing League wins all season, arguably Villa at home too. The win against Sheffield was only our second league win since February.

Bleak.
 
Comunicado Oficial can’t come soon enough. The other ones have slyly and slowly backed away from the Ten Hag ledge - but we need to put Benito out of a job, man. He’s clocking triple shifts in this thread with this farce.
 
stevoc said:
I'd say Everton away and West Ham at home have been our only convincing League wins all season, arguably Villa at home too. The win against Sheffield was only our second league win since February.

Bleak.
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Everton away and West Ham at home were convincing results, but weren't a 3-0 performances imo and could've finished different on another day. 2nd half against Villa at home was good, Chelsea at home as well though they were shockingly bad. Luton away was a 2-1 win but should've scored 4 or 5 there with the chances we had.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
It needs players that can cope with defensive transitions. Do we have them?
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This is what I don't understand about Ten Hag's current group of supporters. He has spent close to £400m. Buy the players you need to play your system. Don't waste money on over-priced players, ageing players and players that don't fit your system. This is mind-blowing managerial (and Director of Football) incompetence.

Even Lisandro Martinez looks highly vulnerable during defensive transitions.
 
BorisManUtd said:
Everton away and West Ham at home were convincing results, but weren't a 3-0 performances imo and could've finished different on another day. 2nd half against Villa at home was good, Chelsea at home as well though they were shockingly bad. Luton away was a 2-1 win but should've scored 4 or 5 there with the chances we had.
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We've only played well half a dozen times this season. Rarely for an entire game.

United 3-2 Forest - Unlucky to be 2-1 down at HT.
United 3-0 Palace (League Cup)
United 2-1 Chelsea
United 3-2 Villa - 2nd half
Wolves 3-4 United - 1st half
United 4-3 Liverpool (FA Cup) - Opening 30 mins and ET

A lot of those games were all over the place. Chaotic. Even though we were better than Chelsea at home overall, they still had multiple good chances themselves.

We always give the opposition a chance. Everton had chances in both games vs us, yet couldn't convert any of them.
 
Our season is really easy to sum up. First half of the season, we were so easy to play against conceding many chances but managed to stay in a respectable position thanks to some individual moments. Second half of the season, it was more of the same with the slight improvement of creating more chances and scoring more goals. If playing well means controlling the majority of a game and looking dangerous whereas nullifying your opponent to one or two chances all game, I really can't think of a single one if I am honest, Chelsea and West Ham are the ones that come closest.
 
Theonas said:
Our season is really easy to sum up. First half of the season, we were so easy to play against conceding many chances but managed to stay in a respectable position thanks to some individual moments. Second half of the season, it was more of the same with the slight improvement of creating more chances and scoring more goals. If playing well means controlling the majority of a game and looking dangerous whereas nullifying your opponent to one or two chances all game, I really can't think of a single one if I am honest, Chelsea and West Ham are the ones that come closest.
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Think we played well with Martinez and Shaw this year.
 
BenitoSTARR said:
I disagree. We’re scoring a lot more goals now. Defence and holding midfield needs improvement but injury has made it hard to judge how much of that is tactical and how much is a personnel issue. I think it’s personnel.
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You're delusional or have some sort of connection with Ten Hag.

There is no cohesion at all in our build up and whatever goals we score are about individual moments rather than sustained pressure or team play.

As for the defence and mIdfield, it is 100% tactical. We have chasm between the midfield and defence. Our pressing lacks coordination. Even a team as poor as Burnley was able to create really good chances with just a few passes. All this has been true from early on in the season when we did not have injuries.

With this group of players, under a good manager we'd finish fourth. Under Ten Hag, we are lucky to be 6th. The expected points table suggests we should be 15th
Ronaldo's Love Child said:
Not sure I entirely agree about SAF being this "once in a lifetime" talent as I think it's more complicated than that.

SAF's first full season with United was 1987/88. We had five full seasons with SAF before we won the title and two of those seasons we finished 11th and 13th.....13th!! Fergie would not have kept his job in today's climate. That season we finished 13th we also ended up with a minus goal difference.

My point is that without backing SAF then we would never have had those glory years that turned into an era. My point does not offer solutions-it only creates more confusion as it might mean we need to find a manager to hang our hat on and stick with him. For the record, I am not sure ETH is that man.
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I'd be all for giving him time IF there were signs on the pitch and behind the scenes that things were improving even if we were 6th. Unfortunately, we are getting worse.
BenitoSTARR said:
I’ve shown earlier how we’ve already improved by a goal per game extra in attack from the start of the season to now. We are averaging 2.3 goals for per game. With an inexperienced front 2/3. That’s impressive.

We now need to sort out exactly what we all can see and what Ten Hag has also been saying defence and midfield which can only properly happen with better players. Evans, Lindelof, McTominay are never going to be the guys.

I disagree. Did you know for example even Antony is in the top 10 chance creators for wingers in the big 5 leagues?

He doesn’t decide the fee and the fee for the likes of Antony isn’t his fault. He initially wanted a striker, was told we couldn’t get one so settled for another wide option. The clubs inability to negotiate shouldn’t be on Ten Hag. I also maintain there wasn’t a clearly better left footed RW option that would have joined us that window.

Hardly Ten Hags fault that we lost Greenwood and so were desperate for forward options.

So why don’t we finally hold the player accountable and improve that aspect first. Otherwise we replace Ten Hag and it’s another clean slate for them. The personnel are not good enough.

When Ten Hag’s team have sat back deeper and relied on blocks everyone here is moaning about the shots conceded (irrespective of the fact they are low quality, rarely make it on target and aren’t the same as conceding big chances).

For what it’s worth @RedRocket08 I think you’re completely reasonable to believe all of what you have said.

He won the Bundesliga because Dortmund bottled it on the last day. He was widely criticised all season for it.

Winning with PSG is hardly an achievement.
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Loads of nonsense. Low quality shots my foot! Having just watched us vs Burnley, we were pathetic. It was a match between equals rather than between a 6th placed team and relegation fodder. Your vehement defending of the fraud is getting as absurd as his excuses for the garbage his team puts out on the pitch game after game.
 
Berbaclass said:
Everyone in here will tell you they’re all shit mate. All money was wasted etc.
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I know, but still.

Szoboszlai is a great player, who admittedly hasn't been utilized in his best role, as a #10. Mac Allister has been good. Gravenberch doesn't look like he'll be a key player for an elite side, and Endo was a rotation level DM signing at 30 years of age.

Not a great window for them long-term at all IMO, opinions could be very different just 12 months from now.

In comparison, I do believe that all of Hojlund, Onana and Mount can play a big role for us in both the present and future.
 
Sarni said:
I think we have not been good going forward even after January, yes. Many games where we scored despite not really creating much and completely against the run of play - the goal at City, both goals against Liverpool, both goals against Bournemouth, both goals against Villa.

We have hardly been breathtaking going forward, just very clinical at finishing the half chances we’ve had and quite lucky as well.

There has been improvement but that’s because prior to January we were beyond abysmal in virtually every single game.
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While I largely agree that our goal scoring isn’t coming from a clear tactical plan; I don’t think we can be described as clinical either. Just the game against Burnley we should have scored 2-3 first half goals and had none. Against Sheffield we should have had 2-3 early as well.

We miss loads of chances and it’s been a part of why we don’t put games to bed although we’ve shown we can throw away multi-goal leads as well.
 
Jev said:
It doesn’t make sense to just take the defence out of the equation. Football is also about balance. If you attack in a way that leaves you so open that you concede even more chances at your own end (which is what’s happening, we’re at 2.2 XGa since January and have ‘won’ the XG six out of 14 times), it’s no use.
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A lot of the xGa since January is going be penalties. They are what 0.80 each?
 
sparx99 said:
While I largely agree that our goal scoring isn’t coming from a clear tactical plan; I don’t think we can be described as clinical either. Just the game against Burnley we should have scored 2-3 first half goals and had none. Against Sheffield we should have had 2-3 early as well.

We miss loads of chances and it’s been a part of why we don’t put games to bed although we’ve shown we can throw away multi-goal leads as well.
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But we only really create all these chances against poor opposition, the last two games were against bottom two teams (one of which has historically bad defensive record and are already relegated), in games against teams that are actually good we struggle to create anything. We did not have a shot (even off target) against Liverpool in the first half and scored two wonder goals, we got 2 goals at Bournemouth from basically our only two chances, we scored 3 goals at Chelsea from an xG of 1.5, scored at Brentford from our only decent chance, scored at City from our first shot, scored 3 against West Ham from an xG of less than 1.

We racked up quite a few goalscoring opportunities against Sheffield, Burnley and Everton but have struggled to create much against solid teams who have usually been able to control games to a large degree (though in some of these games we still pulled out a draw against the run of play, or even a win).
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
What I still find funny is I haven’t spoken to a United fan, face to face, that’s actually desperate for ETH to be let go. Most seem to think another season wouldn’t be the worse given where the club is at. I’m still at that point , wouldn’t complain if he was let go but understand there’s other reasons why we’d keep him.
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Believe me if I could speak to you about it face to face then you would have with me. I lost any support for him after that Anfield battering last March.
 
kouroux said:
This fecking guy :lol::lol: He must be a on massive WUM
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Agreed 100%

Chumpsbechumps said:
What I still find funny is I haven’t spoken to a United fan, face to face, that’s actually desperate for ETH to be let go. Most seem to think another season wouldn’t be the worse given where the club is at. I’m still at that point , wouldn’t complain if he was let go but understand there’s other reasons why we’d keep him.
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What I still find funny is you probably made that shit up just to win an internet debate. Surely you @BenitoSTARR and @Berbaclass are WUMs
 
TsuWave said:
Comunicado Oficial can’t come soon enough. The other ones have slyly and slowly backed away from the Ten Hag ledge - but we need to put Benito out of a job, man. He’s clocking triple shifts in this thread with this farce.
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Adds nothing to discussion. Is there something you’d like to debate about the points and facts I’ve raised?
Alpha 1 said:
You're delusional or have some sort of connection with Ten Hag.

There is no cohesion at all in our build up and whatever goals we score are about individual moments rather than sustained pressure or team play.

As for the defence and mIdfield, it is 100% tactical. We have chasm between the midfield and defence. Our pressing lacks coordination. Even a team as poor as Burnley was able to create really good chances with just a few passes. All this has been true from early on in the season when we did not have injuries.

With this group of players, under a good manager we'd finish fourth. Under Ten Hag, we are lucky to be 6th. The expected points table suggests we should be 15th

I'd be all for giving him time IF there were signs on the pitch and behind the scenes that things were improving even if we were 6th. Unfortunately, we are getting worse.
Loads of nonsense. Low quality shots my foot! Having just watched us vs Burnley, we were pathetic. It was a match between equals rather than between a 6th placed team and relegation fodder. Your vehement defending of the fraud is getting as absurd as his excuses for the garbage his team puts out on the pitch game after game.
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Neither of those.

There are several examples of team play. And build up. Choosing to ignore these for a simpler narrative is fine but it’s not what’s happening.

How do you know with certainty it’s tactical?

How exactly do you think we could play differently to be 4th?

We are getting better in attack. I have shown you this across the season we are now scoring 1 more goal per game. Do you disagree that that is true?

Low quality shots is true. Please show me or point out all theee high quality ones that aren’t currently recorded against us? Opta must have missed something.

Being able to separate emotion from fact doesn’t make me his defender.
Juicy Juiced said:
He is WUMing.
There is always one on RC.
Glaston, Santi in F1, Amadeus, now this one. And then you have parachuter from today who landed and called Liverpool fans best in the world while we are worst.
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Lazy, poor post this. What exactly is incorrect about what I’ve said?

You can’t argue with the facts so you resort to calling those that present them WUMs. I’m clearly not WUMming.
dabronxolivera said:
Agreed 100%


What I still find funny is you probably made that shit up just to win an internet debate. Surely you @BenitoSTARR and @Berbaclass are WUMs
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Exactly why?
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
What I still find funny is I haven’t spoken to a United fan, face to face, that’s actually desperate for ETH to be let go. Most seem to think another season wouldn’t be the worse given where the club is at.
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I'd go more with "concerning" than "funny" if that's the case but alright.
 
The only issue with Alex Kroes' plan is those Barca and Bayern jobs that Erik is a top contender for. Don't think those clubs would let go of the historic opportunity to appoint one of the GOAT's.
 
Insanity said:
The only issue with Alex Kroes' plan is those Barca and Bayern jobs that Erik is a top contender for. Don't think those clubs would let go of the historic opportunity to appoint one of the GOAT's.
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Bayern will almost certainly be in for him. Barcelona just extended Xavi but I can see them backtracking on that if they learn that ETH is available.
 
ETH returning to Ajax in June would be the best way to start the summer. Utterly fed up with his deluded press conferences. Go back to your farmers league where you belong.
 
Given the current state of affairs, I think it'd be mad for him not to return to Ajax.

It's just a case of who will instigate it. Will Ten Hag swallow his pride and willingly leave United to join Ajax or will United have to push him. If so, how soon are United willing to do that.

Whatever way it happens, it should happen. Hard to believe that Ten Hag wouldn't be content (and even probably relieved) to go back to Ajax.
 
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