Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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SATA said:
A former Blackburn winger cum technical director with virtually no experience of management telling the manager how to play football? :lol:
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Think it's mad we spend 5 years with everyone moaning about needing people with experience in football directorship, experience managing academies, scouting networks, data analysis, transfer negotiation etc so all departments line up with the same overall philosophy.

Then even before we've got these people in the door immediately fans are effectively saying they should just be taking over from ETH's day job, to cover for his lack of ability. Rather than replacing him with a coach who can play attractive winning football.
 
SATA said:
A former Blackburn winger cum technical director with virtually no experience of management telling the manager how to play football? :lol:
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That's...a strange technique to direct as part of your job
 
TsuWave said:
I mean, the use of "I'm not sure about this one" was intentional as it implies and allows latitude for whatever ends up being the decision to be "right". Of course he's going to be closer to the issue, of course he'll know more than fans on a forum do - does it make him infallible? no, does it minimise my doubts? not really, but reading zealotry or outright writing something off as "wrong" out of "not sure about this one" is your damage, not mine.

I'm guessing the disconnect is I don't hold "highly rated" or "experienced" to the same degree of faith others might. I believe I've seen you describe Ten Hag being of/having "excellent pedigree" previously, yet here we are.

I won't simply trust something, especially if conflicting with what I've observed over an extended period of time, because "highly rated/experienced said so" - I reserve the right to hold doubts/question ABC and voice so - it's one of the purposes of a forum. That doesn't translate into exaggerated notions of "Wilcox's a fraud!"

either way, this is becoming circular. If Wilcox decides to keep Ten Hag, you're free to trust said decision, I'll be taking notes to cook up my next agenda - so I'll see you in one of those threads :wenger: (I'm joking by the way)
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Do you have similarly low faith for "highly rated" or "experienced" professionals in all fields? Surely if your doctor tells you something you don't agree with you take a little time to consider what they've said even if you come to the conclusion that you disagree.

That's all I'm suggesting here, if he comes to a different conclusion to you, it should at least trigger some consideration that you might not be correct. If you come to the same conclusion after that then fair enough. Maybe that's what you meant all along, it just read like you were dismissing him as automatically wrong if he didn't reach the conclusion you did.
 
golden_blunder said:
I’m getting the feeling that they will give him the next season to prove himself without excuses. At which point his contract will have expired so sink or swim time
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I think the overall cash situation of the club is in his favor. Knowing us, they isn't a clause in his contract that enables us to release him with minimal or no compensation so us finishing outside of the top 5 will not be a saving grace.

INEOS will buy the players they want, tell him how they want the club to play and will give him the season to show if he can adapt and get better.
 
Kaos said:
Looks like they're conjuring up an excuse to sack him. They know full well Ten Hag isn't going to be able to change the way we play this late into the season.
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Do we actually have a defined "...way we play.....", if so I've been struggling to recognise any strategy or plan. Unless it's the "recipe for disaster" tactics, I struggle to recall ANY match where we have outplayed the opposition for the majority of the game, plus I've also failed to see any game plan exist. I'm certainly no tactical maestro but I think I would DEMAND that Rashford pass the ball to Hoijland, it's a lot easier than trying to kick it through an opposing defender, it doesn't have to be Hoijland....a red shirt would suffice. Our midfield would surely be more effective if they, perhaps, engaged the opposition by getting nearer to them, not allowing them to cut through us, as shown by Cunha of Wolves, from first day of the season, and repeated every matchday by the opposing players. In addition, unless Martinez is playing, please stop these attempts to bring the ball out from the penalty area....inevitably we lose the ball and suffer more pressure, I think an example of that was Bournemouth, at home (not the only one, by the way). Dreadful. If I'm unable to spot the tactical wizardry being produced I'd be delighted to be enlightened.
 
adexkola said:
Side note: dysfunctional, "vibes and inshallah" football is not entertaining and I'm not sure where this narrative has come from that more organized play is boring but it needs to stop
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It comes from Cheaty FC. They are entertaining only against certain sides that have a go at them. Most of their games are boring.

And second season start under LvG, we played very slow boring possession football.
 
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I think he’s really going to have to accommodate the new management structure if he wants to stay on. He’s no doubt on thin ice so any resistance will probably see him gone. There’s probably a shortlist of replacements being put together already.
 
SATA said:
A former Blackburn winger cum technical director with virtually no experience of management telling the manager how to play football? :lol:
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Usually how smart clubs operate now. The football director sets out the vision and style of play.

I don't buy that tweet btw but come the summer there will be a change in how we play and that's where I think ten Hag gets in trouble. Ashworth, Wilcox and Berrada are going to want their own guy imo.
 
Zen86 said:
I think he’s really going to have to accommodate the new management structure if he wants to stay on. He’s no doubt on thin ice so any resistance will probably see him gone. There’s probably a shortlist of replacements being put together already.
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You're spot on. It's not just results that will be marked against ten Hag it's also performances. If the new football structure don't feel like ten Hag can implement the style the club wants to play then they will find somebody that will. Simple as that for me.
 
The Hilton said:
Do you have similarly low faith for "highly rated" or "experienced" professionals in all fields? Surely if your doctor tells you something you don't agree with you take a little time to consider what they've said even if you come to the conclusion that you disagree.

That's all I'm suggesting here, if he comes to a different conclusion to you, it should at least trigger some consideration that you might not be correct. If you come to the same conclusion after that then fair enough. Maybe that's what you meant all along, it just read like you were dismissing him as automatically wrong if he didn't reach the conclusion you did.
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There’s simply a lot of people who can’t actually fathom that what they think about something could possibly be wrong in anyway. Particularly if they are staunchly and emotionally invested in a position. “If they don’t share what I think they are clueless, out of their depth, a busted flush…” etc

As the saying goes , the world is full of cock sure idiots…….
 
Maybe he won’t get sacked. SJR has said fans are to impatient… he said it’s a process and a long journey.
 
DJ_21 said:
Maybe he won’t get sacked. SJR has said fans are to impatient… he said it’s a process and a long journey.
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I’d be very surprised if he’s not and any other normal season and club situation (clear consistent structure/owner) it would be a straight forward sacking.

People need to calm down and accept that whatever happens is an actual process of change that we haven’t seen and have needed for over 10 years. Maybe it does or doesn’t involve changing managers.
 


No idea the validity of this, seems quite random.. but will be interesting to analyse the game and see if there's anything different.
 
honirelandboy said:
If only the real word worked like that, no one is going to pay Sancho/Rashford/Casemeiro/Anthony wages unless all four go to the Saudi league which isn't going to happen. I'd probably actually keep Scott, not good enough to be starting but not a high earner and have him there as some sort of squad player. I agree with some of what your saying but I'd say a CB and CM will probably be the height of our summer business.
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Here’s the thing though… obviously your new manager may be able to salvage Sancho and Rashford or whatever, but the point still remains… as long as those players are in your first team squad, there is an opportunity cost issue. They are taking a spot of a player that could be good enough to help us win titles. By not taking the pain now and partially paying wages or taking less in a transfer, you’re just delaying the rebuild. And that affects your revenue line.
 
Chumpsbechumps said:
I’d be very surprised if he’s not and any other normal season and club situation (clear consistent structure/owner) it would be a straight forward sacking.

People need to calm down and accept that whatever happens is an actual process of change that we haven’t seen and have needed for over 10 years. Maybe it does or doesn’t involve changing managers.
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Absolutely. Remember watching SJR interview and he was saying that previous managers we’ve had have all had success but not one has been successful here so it’s the working environment, he said he wants to give the manager the best working environment to work in and then hopefully the manager can give the players the best environment also to perform. I back whatever decision is made this summer. As long as there ruthless in getting rid of deadwood/expensive players, bad attitude players.
 
izak said:
Tell me on good reason you're keeping Maguire and Lindeløf?

Two players who since they started making start or appearance dating back to the Sevilla Europa League Last season we've been shifting goals in for fun.

Hell no, both should be sold they are not good enough and never will be.
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You need at least 5 CBs. Varane is gone, Licha is always injured. Evans is gone. Maguire and Lindelof need to be kept because we can’t possibly buy 4 CBs in 1 window.

I agree they aren’t good enough, but we need to keep them around for transitional purposes.
 
Robocrap said:
Goldbridge and his minions reasoning for example is that if we sack Ten Hag the new manager will give all players a clean slate and "Player Power" will win again. And if we sack the manager we won't get rid of the players that is the main fault for the season going wrong. My stance is that you can do both. Is isn't a black and white issue. Both the players AND the manager is the problem.
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Ah seeing people regurgutating that nonsense everywhere makes sense now.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Agreed with everything except keeping the both of the chuckle brothers. Have to ship out one of Lindelof or Maguire
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Thanks. Both Varane and Licha are injury prone, and Varane is leaving. Evans is leaving. I believe we need 5 CBs. If we buy 2, that gives us 5. If we sell one of Maguire / Lindelof, only 4 and Licha is always injured. Would rather keep them both around, otherwise we are potentially in crisis mode with a couple of injuries.
 
LordSpud said:
Obviously. Look at Liverpool struggling too
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The obvious problem with that is you essentially write off next season already. It doesn't affirm any belief in the manager - it just confirms he's a placeholder until we properly get our shit together behind the scenes. Things could get a lot worse in such a set up.
 
ive seen nothing from him that tells me he has a system that will be successful in this league. I could understand if there were signs there and the injuries were just costing us talented enough players to truly execute it, but his system is just so damn stupid that we are getting run off the pitch by pretty much any team that plays with an actual midfield.
 
justsomebloke said:
He's really just destroying his own credibility with this aggressive pushing of a positive narrative no one believes in. Maybe he believes it himself.
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Agree.

I'd rather he point out the disparity in handball rules for us and City and stress to the media that he hopes in the final we'll have a level playing field, etc. Mourinho would've been deflecting left right and centre. ETH seems a bit naive in that regard. That would be fine if he was winning hearts with his football, but...
 
So what do we expect the poll to look like after we beat the always tough Sheffield Utd today?
 
Rista said:
So what do we expect the poll to look like after we beat the always tough Sheffield Utd today?
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Since I started keeping tabs on it yesterday it's gained 1 no vote and about 35 yes votes.

Where the hell are these voters coming from? :lol:
 
How often have we played possession-based football this season? Doing it against arguably the worst team in the PL and Burnley is one thing, but doing it in our remaining fixtures is another. Will be interesting to see if ETH has been told we have to play this way. Don't believe it myself. More likely some BS spin to make out Wilcox is having an impact.
 
DSG said:
You need at least 5 CBs. Varane is gone, Licha is always injured. Evans is gone. Maguire and Lindelof need to be kept because we can’t possibly buy 4 CBs in 1 window.

I agree they aren’t good enough, but we need to keep them around for transitional purposes.
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I'll rather keep Varane for another season that keep any of those two.
 
DSG said:
Thanks. Both Varane and Licha are injury prone, and Varane is leaving. Evans is leaving. I believe we need 5 CBs. If we buy 2, that gives us 5. If we sell one of Maguire / Lindelof, only 4 and Licha is always injured. Would rather keep them both around, otherwise we are potentially in crisis mode with a couple of injuries.
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In my ideal summer it would be :

CB1
CB2
Licha (used as 3rd CB, rotations, LB cover etc.)
Tosin (free)
Kambwala (getting the carabao cup starts)

Even if you prefer to loan out Kambwala or would not go for Tosin, then just keeping one of them STILL gives you 5 CB's with each having similar profiles that we don't have to tactically adapt (something ETH supporters cry about to this day since he can only play with his absolute first choice players). Keep the system the same and have the profiles that replace instead of having CB1 and Licha injured and now having to play a completely different defensive style because you're stuck starting Maguire on the left or something.

Also wouldn't rule out Varane returning on a cut rate deal which I'd prefer over keeping either of Maguire/Lindelof simply because he brings more experience and can help lead that room more (don't think he will come back mind you, but with his comments about his body breaking down he might prefer being an elder statesmen at a big club than going to Saudi to be a starter or something).
 
TrailMonkey said:
How often have we played possession-based football this season? Doing it against arguably the worst team in the PL and Burnley is one thing, but doing it in our remaining fixtures is another. Will be interesting to see if ETH has been told we have to play this way. Don't believe it myself. More likely some BS spin to make out Wilcox is having an impact.
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Looked at the reverse fixtures and we had 38% possession away at Burnley this season.

Agree with your point though but also think it would be a bit unrealistic to ask ETH to significantly change our playing style in the remaining fixtures. Tweaks could be done to show he's capable but I think ultimately Wilcox already has a good view on ETH and his future, without it being concrete, right now.
 
UnitedSofa said:
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:lol: Hilarious thought. Tbf, I suppose this is basically the argument that most ETH-iners are peddling. New DOF will decide the style of play. ETH will just stand there. Why would we waste time getting a new manager? Nobody good anyway. ETH must stay.

If INEOS, Wilcox and Ashworth actually want a new possession-based approach, they'd obviously bring in a possession-based manager instead of trying to force the current manager to randomly change to a completely different approach with 6 games left in the season.
 
saivet said:
Looked at the reverse fixtures and we had 38% possession away at Burnley this season.

Agree with your point though but also think it would be a bit unrealistic to ask ETH to significantly change our playing style in the remaining fixtures. Tweaks could be done to show he's capable but I think ultimately Wilcox already has a good view on ETH and his future, without it being concrete, right now.
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The thing is, he shouldn't have to change his style period. He was brought in for his work at Ajax, that is what the fans wanted. He should have stuck to his principles and the fans would have been more gracious knowing that it's the players letting him down.

That is what he would have gotten away with last season. Now 3rd season and another style of play? That doesn't bode well for anyone. If ajax really want him back, then for his own sake he should return and play the game he knows. United should get a coach to play the game we want, and stop all this mixing and matching. It's not good for any party.
 
Dazzmondo said:
:lol: Hilarious thought. Tbf, I suppose this is basically the argument that most ETH-iners are peddling. New DOF will decide the style of play. ETH will just stand there. Why would we waste time getting a new manager? Nobody good anyway. ETH must stay.

If INEOS, Wilcox and Ashworth actually want a new possession-based approach, they'd obviously bring in a possession-based manager instead of trying to force the current manager to randomly change to a completely different approach with 6 games left in the season.
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Why do people keep coming out with this nonsense? An awful lot of management is man-management.

The new ownership structure will decide how we want to play yes. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp?
 
pcaming said:
The thing is, he shouldn't have to change his style period. He was brought in for his work at Ajax, that is what the fans wanted. He should have stuck to his principles and the fans would have been more gracious knowing that it's the players letting him down.

That is what he would have gotten away with last season. Now 3rd season and another style of play? That doesn't bode well for anyone. If ajax really want him back, then for his own sake he should return and play the game he knows. United should get a coach to play the game we want, and stop all this mixing and matching. It's not good for any party.
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But his style isn't what he did at Ajax, that was Ajax style.
 
I’m disappointed in his judgment of character most of all. I thought we’d get hungry players who would run hard and play with energy and a pleasing passing style. None of it.
 
Berbaclass said:
Why do people keep coming out with this nonsense? An awful lot of management is man-management.

The new ownership structure will decide how we want to play yes. Why is that such a hard concept to grasp?
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Why did we ever move away from Ole then? The players all seemed to love him. ETH was pitched as the tactical answer to bring us forward (based on his Ajax tactics he didn't reproduce at Utd)
 
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