Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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We all need a reminder every now and then that it will take time...even a few seasons to fully see what ETH wants.

Season could get very messy with a few injuries to key players but we are all just going to have to give ETH time.

That is highly unlikely. All managers since and including Moyes had to achieve CL qualification, or they were gone - it was like paragraph 1, part (a) on their contract. Now some people have suggested ETHs lawyers/representatives might have managed to amend this, because of the state of the club last season, but I bet he has to get into the CL for season 24/25 or he will be history. He will not get 'a few seasons' like you suggest. One plus though, I think by 2024/25 England will have the top-5 not the top-4 going into the main European tournament although I bet Newcastle will be right up there, by then, too.

It is so difficult to be a manager these days: I was getting into an argument earlier this week about this (which I decided to pull away from) because I suggested that Ralf Rangnick had done some decent things to start with e.g when he clamped down on the negative body language he saw from the players, when he first got the job. Somebody suggested his methodology soon became one of 'throwing the players under a bus' which never works. But did he do it publicly? Or was it behind the scenes and then leaked by some fed up player(s)? I can't recall.

I suppose we are seeing ETH walk a fine line this week, he hasn't publicly shamed Ronaldo for his 'The King Plays' tweet - but he could have, because basically it was leaking team selection! and don't get me started on the leaving the game early issue, which was just disgraceful - an abdication of professional responsibility and it just screamed pure selfishness. Yet some people will still defend CR7, even though he wants to leave!

As it turns out Ralf Rangnick hadn't been half as strict with the lads as I had hoped and wanted him to be, because I read this the other week after ETH got started: no alcohol during game weeks and more fish and vegetables and from the club chef & no personal dieticians.

See: https://www.sportbible.com/football...g-match-weeks-and-overhauls-the-menu-20220707

This seems pretty basic stuff to me - especially the alcohol issue so why didn't RR bring it in, or even Ole?

This brings me to what can happen if you go the other way and try to become too 'pally' with the team - well we only have to look at Ole's tenure to see that doesn't work either. When Ole was the caretaker manager, he couldn't stop winning which suggests the lads really, really wanted him to get the job full-time. And he did. The problem was, once he got the proper managers job, the wheels started to come off. So had the players busted a gut to get him into post because they actually wanted it for him, because of his legendary status? Or did they get him into the top job with that winning spell* because they realised once he was the manager, their lives would be a bit easier.....?

I am going with the second of these.

Footballers are people too and most will prefer an easier life to a harder one even whilst being paid silly money. It is exceptional management that can reverse this human characteristic to motivate the players to actually win games and win trophies. Sometimes that involves being a bit of a nasty boss - it worked for Mourinho, briefly and when Sir Alex was being most successful, he had no qualms about selling players still at the top of their game, if they crossed him.

What sort of boss is ETH going to be? Well early indications would suggest a modern type (think Klopp/Guardiola) who will combine a rigid set of strict rules to practically force the players to develop team spirit: meals together, fines for lateness, no smartphones etc. but will then shield them from criticism to build a sort of to 'fortress attitude' as personified by Maximus in Gladiator: "Whatever comes out of these gates, we have a better chance of survival if we work together. Do you understand? We stay together, we survive." It might just work - but not if Ronaldo stays.

However, I was just a bit disappointed that only a few weeks after starting and even before his first match at Old Trafford, Alex Ferguson and Bryan Robson were given roles at the club (a new role for Robson/more involvement for Sir Alex) and I just hope ETH doesn't see this as an attempt to micro-manage him, whilst he is just beginning to micro-manage the team. It could fcuk everything up, before its even got started...

*Solskjaer won his first eight matches in temporary charge, 10 of his first 11 and 14 out of 19 in all before being appointed permanently. From there, things went awry as United won only twice in the remainder of the season before starting the new campaign with three wins in the first 11 games.
 
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So our additions have been pretty good so far but ETH buying only familiar names is still a theme. Can't believe it. Worrying just for worrying.

I wouldn’t worry too much this season with now toxic the place got. Getting people he knows and trusts is reasonable. If he does the same next summer… then that’s a little more worrying as the squad should have a better foundation at that point.
 
That is highly unlikely. All managers since and including Moyes had to achieve CL qualification, or they were gone - it was like paragraph 1, part (a) on their contract. Now some people have suggested ETHs lawyers/representatives might have managed to amend this, because of the state of the club last season, but I bet he has to get into the CL for season 24/25 or he will be history. He will not get 'a few seasons' like you suggest. One plus though, I think by 2024/25 England will have the top-5 not the top-4 going into the top European tournament although I bet Newcastle will be right up there, by then, too.

It is so difficult to be a manager these days: I was getting into an argument earlier this week about this (which I decided to pull away from) because I suggested that Ralf Rangnick had done some decent things to start with e.g when he clamped down on the negative body language he saw from the players, when he first got the job. Somebody suggested his methodology soon became one of 'throwing the players under a bus' which never works. But did he do it publicly? Or was it behind the scenes and then leaked by some fed up player(s)? I can't recall.

I suppose we are seeing ETH walk a fine line this week, he hasn't publicly shamed Ronaldo for his 'The King Plays' tweet - but he could have, because basically it was leaking team selection! and don't get me started on the leaving the game early issue, which was just disgraceful - an abdication of professional responsibility and it just screamed pure selfishness. Yet some people will still defend CR7, even though he wants to leave!

As it turns out Ralf Rangnick hadn't been half as strict with the lads as I had hoped and wanted him to be, because I read this the other week after ETH got started: no alcohol during game weeks and more fish and vegetables and from the club chef & no personal dieticians.

See: https://www.sportbible.com/football...g-match-weeks-and-overhauls-the-menu-20220707

This seems pretty basic stuff to me - especially the alcohol issue so why didn't RR bring it in, or even Ole?

This brings me to what can happen if you go the other way and try to become too 'pally' with the team - well we only have to look at Ole's tenure to see that doesn't work either. When Ole was the caretaker manager, he couldn't stop winning which suggests the lads really, really wanted him to get the job full-time. And he did. The problem was, once he got the proper managers job, the wheels started to come off. So had the players busted a gut to get him into post because they actually wanted it for him, because of his legendary status? Or did they get him into the top job with that winning spell* because they realised once he was the manager, their lives would be a bit easier.....?

I am going with the second of these.

Footballers are people too and most will prefer an easier life to a harder one even whilst being paid silly money. It is exceptional management that can reverse this human characteristic to motivate the players to actually win games and win trophies. Sometimes that involves being a bit of a nasty boss - it worked for Mourinho, briefly and when Sir Alex was being most successful, he had no qualms about selling players still at the top of their game, if they crossed him.

What sort of boss is ETH going to be? Well early indications would suggest a modern type (think Klopp/Guardiola) who will combine a rigid set of strict rules to practically force the players to develop team spirit: meals together, fines for lateness, no smartphones etc. but will then shield them from criticism to build a sort of to 'fortress attitude' as personified by Maximus in Gladiator: "Whatever comes out of these gates, we have a better chance of survival if we work together. Do you understand? We stay together, we survive." It might just work - but not if Ronaldo stays.

However, I was just a bit disappointed that only a few weeks after starting and even before his first match at Old Trafford, Alex Ferguson and Bryan Robson were given roles at the club (a new role for Robson/more involvement for Sir Alex) and I just hope ETH doesn't see this as an attempt to micro-manage him, whilst he is just beginning to micro-manage the team. It could fcuk everything up, before its even got started...

*Solskjaer won his first eight matches in temporary charge, 10 of his first 11 and 14 out of 19 in all before being appointed permanently. From there, things went awry as United won only twice in the remainder of the season before starting the new campaign with three wins in the first 11 games.

I assume OP meant more than just top 4 when he said "what ETH fully wants".
 
If the board are demanding that he gets top 4 then where the feck are the signings that he needs to do that? He's not a miracle worker. The window we've had so far would suggest that the idiots upstairs are happy to write this season off too in the hopes that Ten Hag can increase the value of some of our current assets.

Then again they're probably not even paying attention to how well our rivals have strengthened are they?
 
The top 4 or bust thing has never been a thing. What it apparently was is an easy get out clause when something just isn't working, but it wasn't the reason a manager was sacked ever. Both Mourinho and Ole were sacked months into a new season after they finished 2nd the previous season. Van Gaal was sacked because everyone was tired of his football, stagnation, and because Mourinho was available and we wanted him. Moyes was sacked because he was garbage all year, but had the top 4 clause in his contract so we waited until it was no longer possible mathematically.

Ten Hag will get his time don't worry. If we are a complete disaster all season and play worse than what we should, then obviously he'll get sacked, but that applies to everyone. As long as we show progression and good performances, Ten Hag will have nothing to worry about with or without top 4. You don't need all your signings to show that you can coach well, but you need the reinforcements to achieve your targets.
 
Ten Hag should be given all the time he needs to rebuld us. Remember when Sir Alex came in the club was a train wreck maybe not as bad as it was then, but it takes time to get the right players with the right attitude for the job. lets all get behind him and maybe just maybe we will get the glory days back.
 
The top 4 or bust thing has never been a thing. What it apparently was is an easy get out clause when something just isn't working, but it wasn't the reason a manager was sacked ever. Both Mourinho and Ole were sacked months into a new season after they finished 2nd the previous season. Van Gaal was sacked because everyone was tired of his football, stagnation, and because Mourinho was available and we wanted him. Moyes was sacked because he was garbage all year, but had the top 4 clause in his contract so we waited until it was no longer possible mathematically.

Ten Hag will get his time don't worry. If we are a complete disaster all season and play worse than what we should, then obviously he'll get sacked, but that applies to everyone. As long as we show progression and good performances, Ten Hag will have nothing to worry about with or without top 4. You don't need all your signings to show that you can coach well, but you need the reinforcements to achieve your targets.
Sadly if you are managing this club then yes you do. Half squad is full of Brighton level players. Hope I'll eat my words but you'll see halway through the season even he will have problems getting consistantly good performances out of players like Rashford Marital McTominay, Fred, Maguire etc..
 
Sadly if you are managing this club then yes you do. Half squad is full of Brighton level players. Hope I'll eat my words but you'll see halway through the season even he will have problems getting consistantly good performances out of players like Rashford Marital McTominay, Fred, Maguire etc..
Those players were good enough to get 3rd and 2nd. This squad should be able to get top 4, maybe it shouldn't be the end of him if he missed it, but would certainly be a disappointment. Any more big signings and it's a must.
 
Those players were good enough to get 3rd and 2nd. This squad should be able to get top 4, maybe it shouldn't be the end of him if he missed it, but would certainly be a disappointment. Any more big signings and it's a must.
It will not be easy this year. We all know City Liverpool have the first 2 spots secured. Then we compete with Chelsea, Arsenal, Tottenham under Conte for the remaining 2 spots. Window so far has not been good enough.
 
Those players were good enough to get 3rd and 2nd. This squad should be able to get top 4, maybe it shouldn't be the end of him if he missed it, but would certainly be a disappointment. Any more big signings and it's a must.
Think it's time we stopped referencing league finishes from years ago to set expectations for this season. Teams around us aren't the same and our own squad isn't the same.
 
Think it's time we stopped referencing league finishes from years ago to set expectations for this season. Teams around us aren't the same and our own squad isn't the same.
Yeah let's just reference the last six months instead.

They're hopeless!
 
Despite the supposed negativity/moaning in the fanbase I think most people really just want to see more progress and something to believe in going forward and if we just miss out on top 4 then so be it, although not having champions league football is still a catastrophe for a club as big as United. I get the feeling most people are willing to be patient with ten Hag although I can see the board coming in for some stick if things go wrong.

I really hope we go all out for the Europa League. It'll be a trophy and a way to get champions league football.
 
Yeah let's just reference the last six months instead.

They're hopeless!
It's not being negative or unreasonable to consider that those finishes were based on playing a very specific system and brand of football (low block, rapid counter,) that suited the limitations/strengths of certain players and that we wont be playing that way from now on. The players aren't useless ...but the majority aren't exactly world class or what United quality should be and they showed that last season (and actually many times before that, even when reaching the dizzying heights of second place in the league)
 
Despite the supposed negativity/moaning in the fanbase I think most people really just want to see more progress and something to believe in going forward and if we just miss out on top 4 then so be it, although not having champions league football is still a catastrophe for a club as big as United. I get the feeling most people are willing to be patient with ten Hag although I can see the board coming in for some stick if things go wrong.

I really hope we go all out for the Europa League. It'll be a trophy and a way to get champions league football.

Pretty much.

It will be all about progress for me. And when I mean progress, I mean changing our playing style to be more progressive and efficient. Moving us closer to exciting and attacking brand of play. This absolutely doesn't have to be top 4 as there are Klopp and Pep with 2 places guaranteed and Conte/Tuchel which are far ahead in developing their teams (yes, I know Chelsea has it's problem, but their players know the system and when it works they are really hard to beat).

Progress doesn't have to be about specific place also. We might end up 6th and that progress can be easily visible, just ending at such a place as a result of our inconsistency. Especially, as players he currently has on his disposal aren't used playing the style of football he wants.

Klopp in his first season ended up 8th in the end and the results were really up and down. Still, you could see the team changing and being annoying to play against because of their press and rapid attacks. With all up and downs they still trashed City 3-1 and 3-0, Aston Villa away 6-0, beat Dortmund 4-3 in that thriller in Europa League, etc... Developing that different, on the front foot style of play while being able to see glimpses of things to come in certain games would be more than enough for me. Yes, even if we end up 5th or 6th.

Agree about Europa League too, we should try and go for it.
 
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Pretty much.

It will be all about progress for me. And when I mean progress, I mean changing our playing style to be more progressive and efficient. Moving us closer to exciting and attacking brand of play. This absolutely doesn't have to be top 4 as there are Klopp and Pep with 2 places guaranteed and Konte/Tuchel which are far ahead in developing their teams (yes, I know Chelsea has it's problem, but their players know the system and when it works they are really hard to beat).

Progress doesn't have to be about specific place also. We might end up 6th and that progress can be easily visible, just ending at such a place as a result of our inconsistency. Especially, as players he currently has on his disposal aren't used playing the style of football he wants.

Klopp in his first season ended up 8th in the end and the results were really up and down. Still, you could see the team changing and being annoying to play against because of their press and rapid attacks. With all up and downs they still trashed City 3-1 and 3-0, Aston Villa away 6-0, beat Dortmund 4-3 in that thriller in Europa League, etc... Developing that different, on the front foot style of play while being able to see glimpses of things to come in certain games would be more than enough for me. Yes, even if we end up 5th or 6th.

Agree about Europa League too, we should try and go for it.
Agree with this comment

If you want to play possession-base or attacking football, it can’t be one or two years to be master at it. It needs a lot of time especially in their players movement in both phases and chemistry( important).
 
Pretty much.

It will be all about progress for me. And when I mean progress, I mean changing our playing style to be more progressive and efficient. Moving us closer to exciting and attacking brand of play. This absolutely doesn't have to be top 4 as there are Klopp and Pep with 2 places guaranteed and Conte/Tuchel which are far ahead in developing their teams (yes, I know Chelsea has it's problem, but their players know the system and when it works they are really hard to beat).

Progress doesn't have to be about specific place also. We might end up 6th and that progress can be easily visible, just ending at such a place as a result of our inconsistency. Especially, as players he currently has on his disposal aren't used playing the style of football he wants.

Klopp in his first season ended up 8th in the end and the results were really up and down. Still, you could see the team changing and being annoying to play against because of their press and rapid attacks. With all up and downs they still trashed City 3-1 and 3-0, Aston Villa away 6-0, beat Dortmund 4-3 in that thriller in Europa League, etc... Developing that different, on the front foot style of play while being able to see glimpses of things to come in certain games would be more than enough for me. Yes, even if we end up 5th or 6th.

Agree about Europa League too, we should try and go for it.
Yep this. Will take time and there will be some teething issues. Recruitment helps accelerate the process, but I'm looking forward to the season regardless and I'm sure there will be a lot of progress. Frenkie would help close the gap to the top way quicker than otherwise anticipated, and a winger of course is key just so we don't get shafted real early by an injury that we aren't prepared for, but even so, there is a lot to be optimistic about.
 
One of those YouTuber analyst guys thinks our press didn’t work against Villa because Martial, Sancho and Rashford were too slow off the mark when we needed them to press. That’s a worry to me. Are we heading for the same dysfunctional attempts to become a high pressing team we’ve already suffered under Rangnick because we don’t have the players with the footballing smarts/workrate to implement it?
We could definitely do with an attacker who is genuinely great at pressing and isn't a liability on the ball. Someone to lead the press. Martial, Rashford and Sancho may be able to do it fairly well if guided well (Sancho for sure not sure about the other two) but none of them look like they're ever going to be excellent at it.
 
Ten Hag should be given all the time he needs to rebuld us. Remember when Sir Alex came in the club was a train wreck maybe not as bad as it was then, but it takes time to get the right players with the right attitude for the job. lets all get behind him and maybe just maybe we will get the glory days back.
This is not going to happen, realistically. A managers currency is always results and there's no avoiding that. These are different times, comparing it to SAF is not that relevant. If we finish 8th, then start the next season poorly then we'll see fans turn, and the positive mood around the place gone. The tide will then turn towards change if that season also heads down the toilet.

Ultimately he has to show he's credible in order to keep everybody on side - fans, players, execs. It's not about handing him free reign to be mediocre. That means that the football has to improve, and he has to keep results at a level that keep confidence. It's hard to say exactly what the threshold will be, it will likely be a combination of how we play, results, and moving us forward in the market.
 
Think it's time we stopped referencing league finishes from years ago to set expectations for this season. Teams around us aren't the same and our own squad isn't the same.

Agree with you , plus the points totals that achieved those finishes most likely won't be enough either.

The 3rd place finish was achieved with 66 points (the same as the season before which equated to a 6th place finish) which is 3 less than Arsenal finished with last season and got them a Europa league spot.

It's looking likely that EtH would have to better the 2nd place points total (74 points) to finish in the top 4 next year and that's a huge ask IMO.
 
The top 4 or bust thing has never been a thing. What it apparently was is an easy get out clause when something just isn't working, but it wasn't the reason a manager was sacked ever. Both Mourinho and Ole were sacked months into a new season after they finished 2nd the previous season. Van Gaal was sacked because everyone was tired of his football, stagnation, and because Mourinho was available and we wanted him. Moyes was sacked because he was garbage all year, but had the top 4 clause in his contract so we waited until it was no longer possible mathematically.

Ten Hag will get his time don't worry. If we are a complete disaster all season and play worse than what we should, then obviously he'll get sacked, but that applies to everyone. As long as we show progression and good performances, Ten Hag will have nothing to worry about with or without top 4. You don't need all your signings to show that you can coach well, but you need the reinforcements to achieve your targets.

If Van Gaal got top 4 + the Fa Cup win, he would have easily stayed for the next season regardless of his football.
 
If Van Gaal got top 4 + the Fa Cup win, he would have easily stayed for the next season regardless of his football.
Nah no chance. There was talk that we had pre agreed for Mourinho after his disaster Christmas run. We only didn't qualify on the last day, Mourinho had been agreed long in advance.
 
Nah no chance. There was talk that we had pre agreed for Mourinho after his disaster Christmas run. We only didn't qualify on the last day, Mourinho had been agreed long in advance.

Mourinho said in an interview at this time he was approached by us at the end of the season.

We sacked Mourinho and Ole when they were undergoing a disastrous run and appointed a caretaker manager in both situations. We didn't do the same when LVG was having a disastrous run, they could have sacked him and let Giggs manage for the end of the season, like what they did with Ole and Ralf, they didn't, they kept LVG.
 
You should give EtH at least 2 years. He will need time to implement his way of playing and it will take a while before players get it. Some of them wont and will need to be replaced. Excited to see some youngsters being introduced!
 
Mourinho said in an interview at this time he was approached by us at the end of the season.

We sacked Mourinho and Ole when they were undergoing a disastrous run and appointed a caretaker manager in both situations. We didn't do the same when LVG was having a disastrous run, they could have sacked him and let Giggs manage for the end of the season, like what they did with Ole and Ralf, they didn't, they kept LVG.
They didn't due to whatever CL get out clause to make it cheaper. Was a bit different. Van Gaal didn't have a disastrous run. He had a boring spell/mediocre spell, recovered from it, the mood in the club was still fine, so they never needed to sack early. They sacked Ole and Mourinho because we started getting hammerings from everyone and in Mourinho's case, he was embarassing the club in the pressers.

Doesn't matter, but i really didn't see it as no CL was the reason for the sack. The reason for the sack was shit performances/collapses for other managers, Van Gaal was because he was old, wasn't planning on staying long anyway (think 3 years was the plan), the football was incredibly boring and we weren't really improving, and Mourinho was available who a lot at the club had wanted after Sir Alex. If Mourinho wasn't available (or one of the other top guys), we wouldn't have sacked Van Gaal.
 
They didn't due to whatever CL get out clause to make it cheaper. Was a bit different. Van Gaal didn't have a disastrous run. He had a boring spell/mediocre spell, recovered from it, the mood in the club was still fine, so they never needed to sack early. They sacked Ole and Mourinho because we started getting hammerings from everyone and in Mourinho's case, he was embarassing the club in the pressers.

Doesn't matter, but i really didn't see it as no CL was the reason for the sack. The reason for the sack was shit performances/collapses for other managers, Van Gaal was because he was old, wasn't planning on staying long anyway (think 3 years was the plan), the football was incredibly boring and we weren't really improving, and Mourinho was available who a lot at the club had wanted after Sir Alex. If Mourinho wasn't available (or one of the other top guys), we wouldn't have sacked Van Gaal.

And the CL clause wasn't present for the other managers ?

LVG went 9 games in a row without a single win in this run and it included a lot of embarrassing defeats, getting KOed from CL group, losing to Norwich at home, losing to Bournemouth and Stoke City..etc.

https://www.goal.com/en/galleries/e...bad-are-louis-van/1/opvukelq0308147ruci5k1bpj

If they had a pre-agreement with Mourinho, sacking a manager after such run and appointed a caretaker manager would have made more sense to save the rest of the season.

But obviously, it was clear that Woodward actually liked LVG and was betting on him to turn the tables and stay. 4th + Fa Cup would have been viewed back then as huge success, and there's no way he would have been sacked after that.

Woodward did the same with Ole by the way and stood with him in several of his previous shitty runs during his first full 2 seasons and refused to jump the gun and sack him, because he kinda liked him. The last run was just unbearable.
 
And the CL clause wasn't present for the other managers ?

LVG went 9 games in a row without a single win in this run and it included a lot of embarrassing defeats, getting KOed from CL group, losing to Norwich at home, losing to Bournemouth and Stoke City..etc.

https://www.goal.com/en/galleries/e...bad-are-louis-van/1/opvukelq0308147ruci5k1bpj

If they had a pre-agreement with Mourinho, sacking a manager after such run and appointed a caretaker manager would have made more sense to save the rest of the season.

But obviously, it was clear that Woodward actually liked LVG and was betting on him to turn the tables and stay. 4th + Fa Cup would have been viewed back then as huge success, and there's no way he would have been sacked after that.

Woodward did the same with Ole by the way and stood with him in several of his previous shitty runs during his first full 2 seasons and refused to jump the gun and sack him, because he kinda liked him. The last run was just unbearable.
Woodward brought back Ronaldo to destroy the whole thing.
 
Mourinho said in an interview at this time he was approached by us at the end of the season.

We sacked Mourinho and Ole when they were undergoing a disastrous run and appointed a caretaker manager in both situations. We didn't do the same when LVG was having a disastrous run, they could have sacked him and let Giggs manage for the end of the season, like what they did with Ole and Ralf, they didn't, they kept LVG.

The BBC put out a story linking us with Mourinho in December of that year.
 
This post is as wrong as it gets. Losing the qualities of Pogba and Greenwood is considered nothing now? Jesus Christ.
Pogba was nearly always injured and didn't set the world on fire when he played, Greenwood, the less said the better.
 
Think it's time we stopped referencing league finishes from years ago to set expectations for this season. Teams around us aren't the same and our own squad isn't the same.

Tbf any manager needs to know what the floor and the ceiling is for this squad before taking on the job. So any references to the previous seasons with quite a few of the key players still here would be a reference to their potential ceiling. Then figure out the reasons for the gap and how he can improve it even before he signs the dotted lines. After that, how he can improve the performance and the tools required to do so?
Nobody just walking into the job without some due diligence and some matrices.
 
People seems well versed on the idea that we could give ETH more years to rebuild, even he did not deliver top 4 in this upcoming season.

I think we should be honest to ourselves. last year Arsenal did not make top 4 , and their EPL results were 22W-3D-13L . Just imagine we lost 13 games under ETH , and the fanbase could dig into those 13 games and write up 1000 pages of comments about ETH a fraud, mistakes he had made, and jump to the "ETH out" conclusion.

Reality is, ETH has to make top 4 this season to keep his job. Period. That's the sad truth of our unrealistic expectation blended with this current crazy football world in which quick success is a must.
 
Reality is, ETH has to make top 4 this season to keep his job. Period. That's the sad truth of our unrealistic expectation blended with this current crazy football world in which quick success is a must.

The irony is that if that's your reality, then you are being unrealistic.

1stly it's a wholesale change in the way United is supposed to play football ie a change in philosophy (for the umpteen time.) Everyone knows that we don't have a squad that's deep enough to support that change. So it will take a couple of windows.
2ndly. This is a WC year that's smack in the middle of the domestic season. Who knows what sort of injuries we will face in the 2nd half of the season? Then there are the knock-on effects of a short summer (again) for next season.
3rdly. The DOF has staked his reputation and career on ETH as seen with the long pursuit of FdJ and getting the players that ETH knows and wants. He will give ETH as long a rope as possible to succeed especially after the disaster that was Rangnick or he starts to be underpressure by the end of that season.


ETH will get at least his 3 (+1) seasons contract. If the progress is obvious, I can see Arnold giving him a contract extension by the middle of his 2nd or the end of that season year.
 
The irony is that if that's your reality, then you are being unrealistic.

1stly it's a wholesale change in the way United is supposed to play football ie a change in philosophy (for the umpteen time.) Everyone knows that we don't have a squad that's deep enough to support that change. So it will take a couple of windows.
2ndly. This is a WC year that's smack in the middle of the domestic season. Who knows what sort of injuries we will face in the 2nd half of the season? Then there are the knock-on effects of a short summer (again) for next season.
3rdly. The DOF has staked his reputation and career on ETH as seen with the long pursuit of FdJ and getting the players that ETH knows and wants. He will give ETH as long a rope as possible to succeed especially after the disaster that was Rangnick or he starts to be underpressure by the end of that season.


ETH will get at least his 3 (+1) seasons contract. If the progress is obvious, I can see Arnold giving him a contract extension by the middle of his 2nd or the end of that season year.
I do share with you that the top 4 target is unrealistic, but unfortunately ETH have to deliver it to keep his job.

Just think about LVG's case: he had his philosophy and clearly in the process of implementing it; he had lots of difficulties during the 2nd season, including the recruitment and massive injury which forced him to use yet-ready youths; he even won us a FA cup. But at the end he did not make top 4 with goal differences and then got sacked. You could argue that now it is different management team, but the fanbase expectation and the board's too are all the same unrealistically high.

On the other hand, it would be very hard to justify further investment , both time and funds, if ETH kept losing and could not make top 4. Spur is a good example: Conte turned it around against all odds and made top 4 last season, then he justified his demand of massive investment in this window to match his ambition. Rangnick brought us a free-fall finishing to 6th, we don't even care his unbinding advices anymore and rather terminate the consulting contract.

So this is the reality I am talking about: it is unfair and unrealistic, but ETH needs to deliver top 4 to keep his job.
 
I do share with you that the top 4 target is unrealistic, but unfortunately ETH have to deliver it to keep his job.

Just think about LVG's case: he had his philosophy and clearly in the process of implementing it; he had lots of difficulties during the 2nd season, including the recruitment and massive injury which forced him to use yet-ready youths; he even won us a FA cup. But at the end he did not make top 4 with goal differences and then got sacked. You could argue that now it is different management team, but the fanbase expectation and the board's too are all the same unrealistically high.

On the other hand, it would be very hard to justify further investment , both time and funds, if ETH kept losing and could not make top 4. Spur is a good example: Conte turned it around against all odds and made top 4 last season, then he justified his demand of massive investment in this window to match his ambition. Rangnick brought us a free-fall finishing to 6th, we don't even care his unbinding advices anymore and rather terminate the consulting contract.

So this is the reality I am talking about: it is unfair and unrealistic, but ETH needs to deliver top 4 to keep his job.

If ETH was smart and you can assume that to be true, he would have presented an analysis of the squad and their expectations before signing the dotted line. I doubt if he had promised them a top four finish. That would be professional suicide.

Anyway, Arnold and Mctough would know how tough the journey is to fix 10yrs of Woodward's clusterfeck.
 
The BBC put out a story linking us with Mourinho in December of that year.

That's a 1+1 = 2 story. Mourinho got sacked around Dec which also coincided with us going through a terrible run. So the media just created a link from there.

It quietened down after that and when Pep Guardiola got announced as the new Man City manager, they heated up the Mourinho story again. Its how the media have always worked.
 
If ETH was smart and you can assume that to be true, he would have presented an analysis of the squad and their expectations before signing the dotted line. I doubt if he had promised them a top four finish. That would be professional suicide.

Anyway, Arnold and Mctough would know how tough the journey is to fix 10yrs of Woodward's clusterfeck.

If ETH was unable to confidently deliver a top 4 finish, there is no way he would have been announced as a manager. How ETH became manager was that he presented a clear and concise plan on how the club can achieve footballing success. The plan focused on various aspects such as the gradual improvement of the existing first team squad inclusive of analysis and training methods, the link between the academy and the first team, the type of recruitment and overall tactical and playing strategy. He was given the job because of the amount of details he gave on how the plan can be achieved and his confidence in achieving it.
 
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