This pretty much sums up my thoughts
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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I’ve backed him nearly all season and wanted him to stay on next season, but to be honest I think the correct decision is probably to move on next season. Nagelsman would be my preferred option, but I wouldn’t be fully against Potter if Ineos think he can deliver a long term vision.
I still think Ten Hag is a good manager and coach and has been dealt some really poor cards with the injuries and makeup of the squad. None of those issues will be easy to fix even for the next manager. I know we say this every year, but this summer is absolutely crucial in terms of getting rid of players (with some big calls needed) and recruiting smartly. We can’t afford to overpay because we need too many players.
I still think Ten Hag is a good manager and coach and has been dealt some really poor cards with the injuries and makeup of the squad. None of those issues will be easy to fix even for the next manager. I know we say this every year, but this summer is absolutely crucial in terms of getting rid of players (with some big calls needed) and recruiting smartly. We can’t afford to overpay because we need too many players.
It's not even a 'somehow' that's the thing. It's a 'not that unlikely' 3/1 shot with the bookies.If we somehow lost to Coventry, this forum might collapse from the sheer anger
I hope we get into the final at least. You never know in a final.
It's an top half Championship side against a team that performs like a PL relegation candidate most weeks.
Rashford, bruno, maguire, lindelof, shaw, martial, mctominay etc
All have had purple patches then absolutely dismally bad seasons.
The players are continuously being let off manager after manager.
I'm not for a second saying the manager isn't responsible but the players are equally responsible. They haven't just let the club down under ETH, they done it under Ralph, Ole, Jose and LVG.
The only players in this team who have played regularly who can hold their heads up high is Mainoo, Garnacho, Dalot and Rasmus.
The rest of the team, the senior players and management have let us down
Sometimes they are. Sometimes they aren't. Sometimes they finish in the top 4. Sometimes they crash and burn.
I can, which is why I am erring on the side of caution as I don’t think that game is a gimme or close to a forgone conclusion. Newport away wasn’t a one off for the season and we look more likely to play worse than better on any given day.Can you imagine our current tactics on that pitch.
edit: Newport not Brentford
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The fact fecking Newport who is sitting on the lower table of League 2 managed to get 17 SHOTS !!! (7 on target) against us while we play our first teamer should be an alarm bell ringing moment for us. I would think the Coventry game goes 50/50 since we cant defend to save ourselves
Ideal scenario is Ten Hag sacked this week, we beat Coventry and we then have a very outside chance of finishing the season on a high.
How has Maguire let ETH down?
Some of those players listed weren't even a part of Jose or Van Gaal's teams. Bruno and Maguire for example. I'd like to know how Rashford, Martial and Shaw let Van Gaal or Jose down? How did Bruno/Rashford let down OGS considering their best seasons arguably came under his reign? Rashford was overplayed by Ole when he was dealing with a chronic back injury back then.
I'm not saying the players are blameless, but this idea that they're letting the managers down is nonsensical.
We've had poor seasons before, but never to the current extent under ETH. I'm going to lay that blame mainly on him. If the players coached themselves this season, we honestly would be better off. That's how abject he's been at managing the squad this season.
We can beat Coventry regardless, but we stand no chance against City in a final.
Our best chance of winning the FA Cup is to hope that Chelsea fluke a result in the semifinal.
Our best chance of winning the FA Cup is to hope that Chelsea fluke a result in the semifinal.
Probably only gets announced once we're out of UCL mathematically.
Fair enough. I do think he should go as well, even before the last couple of weeks as things have got worse and worse. New people running the club, let's go for a clean sweep like you say, and let them put their own man in as well, and hope they back him in jettisoning several of these players as well. Go for a full reset.
And to all the posters saying "ok the manager might be an issue but what about the players!" ..... How many times have you seen players underperform under a manager that's not good enough? What exactly are your expectations in that scenario?
From the moment you accept the manager is not good enough you have to accept the effect this will have had on the players. That goes for past, present and future.
The scorched earth stuff is corny as feck at this point. Sort the manager out first then assess the players and any incumbent manager should be aiding those decisions - quite frankly a lot of redcafe come across as clueless on this point. Sound like KG from United View
From the moment you accept the manager is not good enough you have to accept the effect this will have had on the players. That goes for past, present and future.
The scorched earth stuff is corny as feck at this point. Sort the manager out first then assess the players and any incumbent manager should be aiding those decisions - quite frankly a lot of redcafe come across as clueless on this point. Sound like KG from United View
Yeah, but Maguire has been a model professional aside the Greece holiday incident. Ability may be lacking in certain areas but his commitment and professionalism despite all that has happened is admirable
Oh trust me, I have no love for ETH and I want him gone ASAP, but I have visceral hatred for these players. Paid obscene wages but lack any effort, milking us
God damn but I really wanted this to work, thought he was an up and coming manager with a good way of thinking on how the game should be played but I honestly think the downfall started with his signings.
Mount was a waste of 55million, he’s fit now and won’t play him as he doesn’t know where to put him.
Malacia waste of time as a backup to the injured Shaw
Martinez probably the only bright point but questionable now
Casemiro saved us last season but he’s just picking up his pension now
Anthony has been terrible
Yes injuries play a part and structure above has been way off elite standards but if there injuries, coach the reserves to play the way you want, but that doesn’t seem to have happened, he just plays the same 11 week in week out, rushing players back. He knows he’s a dead man walking now.
Mount was a waste of 55million, he’s fit now and won’t play him as he doesn’t know where to put him.
Malacia waste of time as a backup to the injured Shaw
Martinez probably the only bright point but questionable now
Casemiro saved us last season but he’s just picking up his pension now
Anthony has been terrible
Yes injuries play a part and structure above has been way off elite standards but if there injuries, coach the reserves to play the way you want, but that doesn’t seem to have happened, he just plays the same 11 week in week out, rushing players back. He knows he’s a dead man walking now.
I have no love for ETH and want him gone, but these players are just not good enough. We have to have that conversation as much as we can see that ETH is not up to the job
How many of the experienced players do you think have tried to change ETH mind about the formation over the season?
Got to think part of the reason Casemiro isn't playing well is because he knows his role is futile and he can see no way to change it.
Got to think part of the reason Casemiro isn't playing well is because he knows his role is futile and he can see no way to change it.
And to all the posters saying "ok the manager might be an issue but what about the players!" ..... How many times have you seen players underperform under a manager that's not good enough? What exactly are your expectations in that scenario?
From the moment you accept the manager is not good enough you have to accept the effect this will have had on the players. That goes for past, present and future.
The scorched earth stuff is corny as feck at this point. Sort the manager out first then assess the players and any incumbent manager should be aiding those decisions - quite frankly a lot of redcafe come across as clueless on this point. Sound like KG from United View
The more you blame the players the more we stray from the root cause of the issues this season. - ETH tactics and his stubbornness to setup any differently. Notice I say his tactics and not him as a coach because there are players who have improved as individuals under him.
but, his tactics leave us open, they don’t create enough chances, and the tactics are taking all of the stamina out of the players. It’s like the opposite of Dutch coaching where Lvg was out being in the right place and letting the ball do the work. This is just run around like headless chickens.
yes some of the players, actually all of the players have been bad at times, some worse than others. But, he’s had more than 50% of the squad changed, we can’t keep saying it’s just players at fault. The players need to believe in something- they are running around getting injured, getting beaten and getting criticism for something that they don’t believe in.
Club just too big for him. He did alright but he would have been sacked in the first season if not for the last season of good Casemiro. I hate that sacking him sends a message that the players were right, so all these guys need to go with him:
Casemiro, Rashford, Varane, Donny, AWB, Lindelof, Eriksen, Amrabat, Sancho, Martial can all feck off - would also let Maguire go to West Ham so that circus can finally end. McTominay and Antony can stay as impact subs at best. Onana has been alright but if the chance to sign a better keeper develops we should go for it. Shaw and Martinez are good players but can we rely on them anymore?
Let's build the team around a new spine with youngsters.
Onana/New Keeper
Dalot/New backup RB - 2 New CBs + Kambwala + Martinez - New LB + Shaw
New DM + Mainoo + Bruno + Mount + New CM
NEW ST PLEASE + Rasmus + Amad + Garnacho + Antony + (maybe even a new winger)
So that's like at least 6-7 new players or 4/5 proper signings..
We are so fecked
Casemiro, Rashford, Varane, Donny, AWB, Lindelof, Eriksen, Amrabat, Sancho, Martial can all feck off - would also let Maguire go to West Ham so that circus can finally end. McTominay and Antony can stay as impact subs at best. Onana has been alright but if the chance to sign a better keeper develops we should go for it. Shaw and Martinez are good players but can we rely on them anymore?
Let's build the team around a new spine with youngsters.
Onana/New Keeper
Dalot/New backup RB - 2 New CBs + Kambwala + Martinez - New LB + Shaw
New DM + Mainoo + Bruno + Mount + New CM
NEW ST PLEASE + Rasmus + Amad + Garnacho + Antony + (maybe even a new winger)
So that's like at least 6-7 new players or 4/5 proper signings..
We are so fecked
The disdain from fans towards players dates back to Moyes days when half of this forum were calling them names despite it being virtually the same squad that had previously won multiple trophies under Fergie, all to protect Moyes. We don't know how good these players would really be in a proper system, half of them have not played for us for anyone other than ETH and some of them have already shown they can be much better than what we have shown this season, much of which can be attributed to ridiculous formation and tactics that are setting them up to fail. We need reinforcements, our squad is not good enough to win the league or get anywhere near but it's definitely not bad enough to consistently look like one of the worst teams in the league week in week out and only be bailed out by Onana/luck/moments of brilliance.
This group of players are more than capable of making top 4. They’ve been setup for failure by the coach
To even put in a decent performance against mid table teams? Disagree. We have a top 4 squad playing like a 6th-10th placed team at best. That's on the manager.
I feel sorry for ETH. He looked like a beaten man after the game yesterday. I fully get that some of these players let him down week after week, and the injuries almost dictate the squad. But, and it’s the biggest but for me, is he never addresses the obvious issue. Week in, week out we set up the same way and try and press, sit deep and control possession whilst doing none of them well yet he insists. It’s almost madness to think it will click now, with these players and at this stage in the season. Cut your losses and and set up to play using the strengths of the players we have. Might not be utterly convincing but we wouldn’t be under the cosh for every game and we would probably win more. It’s baffling how he can’t do any other way when he’s supposed to be so highly rated. It’s the most stubborn approach going.
I’m deviated it’s not worked out because I properly bought into his vision when he arrived. It’s been a disastrous appointment and the cup win is probably the reason we’ve had to put up with it for so long.
Time to go Erik
I’m deviated it’s not worked out because I properly bought into his vision when he arrived. It’s been a disastrous appointment and the cup win is probably the reason we’ve had to put up with it for so long.
Time to go Erik
I have no doubt that there are players not good enough, hell I’ve been crying about Lindelof always being kept on even though he’s the epitome of a player not good enough for where we want to be.
but, these players have been setup for failure by the coach and his tactics. It’s leaving them broken physically and mentally.
he’s had more than 50% of the squad replaced. We have to stop banging the same drum. The others that don’t make the cut will be out regardless. My only fear is that INEOS will see value in keeping Rashford
He still jumped above into number 1So it's just a tight race between those two but not really a jump
We aren't playing like a 6th best team in England, not even close. We are bailed out by Onana and singular moments of brilliance which got us a myriad of 1-goal wins this season but frankly we have been a bottom half team performance wise this year.
We haven't really had any truly good performances this year where you would have felt 100% content with the game. The best games were probably against Chelsea, Villa (at home) and Wolves away but even in those games we showed many vulnerabilities you would prefer ironed out.
Sorting out the manager will not make Bruno cultured on the ball, AWB be less awkward, Rashford more technical and gutsy, or make Casemiro treat the ball like a hot potato. They will raise their game but ultimately they wont be able to play that dominating football we want to watch.
We have enough data to see that these players are not good enough and we need to have a plan to gradually weed them out. In any case they can do better and ETH has been poor and needs to go
Both arguements can be true, the manager is not good enough and the players not good enough either
We have enough data to see that these players are not good enough and we need to have a plan to gradually weed them out. In any case they can do better and ETH has been poor and needs to go
Both arguements can be true, the manager is not good enough and the players not good enough either
I actually feel very sorry for him. I think he's a decent guy but he looks utterly defeated. He's got the shell-shocked expression that Ole had at the end of his time at the club.
Will Nagelsmann succeed in the prem? I’ve had him in my top 3 but thinking about it, didn’t it go pear shaped at Bayern? Will he get the respect from this bunch of players and what’s his actual style of play? Potter would be the safest bet for INEOS but I don’t think he can compete with the likes of pep for the league.
Would you believe I saw I kid and a Lindelof jersey in the park yesterday. My son was taking the piss out of him - chip off the old block there...
I told him to stop it's probably not his fault they're probably Swedish
I think we need to stop acting like top 4 is a barometer of the quality we need to be achieving. Aston Villa have a squad capable of making top 4.
Ye he knows he’s done at the end of the season. He’s trying to focus on the summer plans etc and keeps bringing up the new structure so it looks like he’s staying and he’s trying to send them a message by saying I want to stay.
Oh I agree with everything you guys have said. Same team guys
I just feel some people dont want to accept that perhaps the likes of Hojlund and Rashford are not as good as may be Nunez and Diaz. While the tactics is not good enough, I doubt these players are able to play in any other system successfully aside the usual counter attack with alot of space behind the opposition
So does spurs. We’ve spent more than both them 2 teams so there’s no excuse not to be finishing higher than 4th. It’s all about coaching and getting the best from the squad you’ve got. That ain’t happening here aslong as we’ve got players with bad attitude and who ain’t pulling in the right direction. It’s all about Attitude. Get rid of players like, Rashford, Martial, Sancho. Bruno gets a lot of stick but I think he’s actually one of the only players that cares about the club and that’s why he’s forever moaning.
Always though the FA Cup might save him (though I don't see any way we win that), but honestly not even sure it will now... We're just too shit.
That's what I mean, the amount we spend we should be in title races at least once in a while purely by playing to par, just a monumental failure of squad building. Obviously ten Hag isn't even able to get them playing at top 4 level so also has to go asafp.
Hopefully he does a Van Gaal and wins the trophy on his last day in the job.
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