No one person will fix the club. It will be a combination.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Agree, but if mention that new 'structure' might just actually help the manager then some people line up to shoot the idea down.
The structure is everything.
I totally agree, I just think there’s no outstanding candidate ready to go from June 1st, if Ancelotti was free we would have moved already?
I'm sure he doesn't want us to be poor but the players are clearly following his instructions, we've played the same way since the opening game against Wolves. And the way he wants to play is largely responsible for our poor form this season. Whether he realizes that is another matter.
This is what I'm thinking. Even if Ineos are stupid/lazy/poor enough to try to keep him next season, the terms that Berrada and co will want to impose will end up with him rejecting any new offer.
I dont think he's the sort of guy to accept a new contract where his influence is lessened and there's a clause to reduce his compensation if he misses top four again. Because he knows he will miss top four again.
'Structure' (better recruitment) helps any manager. No need to stick with a bad one.
Is that such a huge benefit to a club as big as Man Utd that it's worth going into next season with him at the helm as opposed to just sacking him in the summer though?
LVG found out some time in the week before the final that he was getting sacked. Not sure where I read it or heard it though.
He's apparently on £9m a year, there will no doubt be minimum perfromance related clauses in his contract that can be triggered if he fails to meet them ie CL qualifcation. So sacking him would probably only cost a few million. His staff wouldn't be on that much relatively speaking.
As I've said I'm happy with a new manager, as long it's not just anyone, but is a well thought out plan.
I'd be equally happy if they decide that Ten Hag has not been given the chance to show his true potential under the old regime, and so want to give him another season.
In your opinion, what would a better structure provide to Ten hag that would enable him to realise his full potential?
Is this process worth continuing though?
After 2 years and £450m spent this process has lead to us now being worse off than we were 2 years ago when he arrived. We have a new CEO, DOF and Head of recruitment coming in anyway so whatever Ten Hag was building is now a moot point anyway as they'll be taking over and shaping the squad/style of play from this point forward.
If we look at Erik simply as the head coach of the new direction the clubs taking. Has he shown enough this season with his tactics and the teams structure/performances to suggest he's the man to take us to the next level?
What do we lose from sacking him?
I'm not going into this again, I had it all last night.
All I know is that it's hardly been an environment for any manager to thrive in recent years at United, so it's not a much of stretch to think Ten Hag might not have shown his true potential under this.
In the last 11 years, Manchester United have had a lot of coaches and nobody has been very successful in that environment. That says to me there is something wrong with the environment. It is not constructive for me to blame anyone, it's just a fact"
The words of Ratcliffe himself
Our ability to find the right targets in the transfermarket has been nothing short of shocking for some time.
it really limits what we are able to do on the pitch.
Gut feeling i have is that there is a desire from people above Erik to change our playing style away from the more cautious counter attacking style to a style that makes us more dominant. More possession overall, more possession higher up the pitch through high press. So, there is (of course) a lot more to it than just Erik being a not very great coach.
Which i don`t think he is. No one wants us to be this bloody open and unorganized when defending.
Erik has to take the blame for this. Most shots conceded of ALL teams in the top 5 leagues is just a fact you need to lie down and let digest for a while. Regardless of what the dof might ask of him, regardless of the limitations in the squad, he just has to do better than this.
That doesn't say a lot. We already knew this, but none of us wanted to stick with Moyes, LVG, Jose, Ole or Rangnick.
What tangible actions can be taken from a better structure than will enable the manager to get more out of his coaching, tactics, and man management? The core skills of a manager essential.
This isn't antagonistic, I am genuinely trying to understand what Ten Hag needs from the structure above him that he isn't currently getting.
While that is true it doesn't mean the coaches also weren't good enough. The two things aren't mutually exclusive.
Of the 4 permanent managers before Ten Hag which one had went on to prove themselves to be a top coach or still a top coach elsewhere?
Standards mainly I think. That flows down from the top of an organisation.
For far too long it's been 'okay' to not win. That needs to change from the very top and I believe it will. That will filter down to the playing staff.
Better players, pursuing his targets with more urgency and efficiency, hire better coaches to help him with fitness and tactics. Basically we need to ensure ETH can succeed, this clubs first and foremost priority should be to cater to its manager needs. I want to believe that Berrada, Ashworth and Wilcox will be here to serve ETH.
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A fantastic way for ETH to shut up all the ETH out camp which includes me is to send out a team tomorrow that destroys Liverpools title chances. Great managers come through when it’s needed. Huge opportunity let’s see if he takes it?
It wouldn't though mate. People have made their minds up. If we beat them it will be lucky.
Bollocks. Even the biggest ETH outers are more than happy to celebrate a good performance. We just haven’t had more than a couple this season.
I was literally arguing with people right after the 4-3 Liverpool win
This is true. The general consensus after our FA Cup game with them is that Liverpool let us off the hook. 'United didn't win it. Liverpool lost it'. This, despite the fact that we were the better side in the first half and through both periods of extra time. Also, we had a great chance to make it 2-0 early on through McTominay.
Mate I’m firmly in the out camp but a win tomorrow at least provides a start for him and the team a drubbing and well what is there to say. We need a performance for sure. Antony was superb midweek imo and it’s not often you can say that so hopefully he and the team have turned a corner. If Rashford starts tomorrow I really would fear the worst.
I am disappointed in you. Why are you so protective of this fraud? What has he done to give you the confidence he has any idea what he's doing?
What do you think INEOS can do to actually make next season a success with this guy? He's shown us nothing.
I think we should move him on.
Ah, ok. I thought you were saying people won't give him the credit he's due if we beat Liverpool. For me, Sunday is our cup final and I expect the players to behave accordingly.
I couldn't care less about the FA cup and we are not making top 4 but if we can do everything in our power to stop Floppo from leaving on a high, we should.
You mean the people you were baiting, quoting old posts with rightful criticism, saying they must be devastated we won?
No I don't think so
His quote "We must learn from this" makes my blood boil. It is fecking 10th time that your team conceded late goal. And you still didn't learn? Maybe to stop parking the bus when you take a lead, you plonker?
We.. HE needs to learn but for some reason HE keeps making the sames mistakes with his selection and tactics. He should know his players weaknesses and strengths and he should be making adjustments and changes based off our opponents weaknesses and strengths.
For anyone trying to absolve ETH and put this all on the players.. Villa up 2-0 with 76% possession and only given up 2 off target shots early into the second half vs Brentford. No way you can tell me that squad is better than any version of United, injuries or not.
One game of football does not change anything. The only fantastic way to shut up the EtH out camp is to start playing something that at least resembles cohesive football on a regular basis. The way to shut up the doubters is to not have a negative goal difference in April, not have the most shots conceded or to score more goals than Luton town. Great managers do hell of a lot more than show up for individual games.
Two things can be true at the same time… we can be happy for the odd win, and sometimes irrationally optimistic, this doesn’t change the fact that we hate the football we see and we are done with ETH.
If he is kept and does better will you be undone with him?
For me the gravest crime ETH committed were his transfers. Apart from Martinez, the rest of his 450m+ spending was misguided at best. The matchday meltdowns we see match after match is mostly a function, I believe, of a squad that was poorly built.
Aswell as having managers that have not been good enough.
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