Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I disagree.
Under Ragnick, you knew we were doomed against big teams.
Now I know we can beat anyone. We can also lose to anyone, being the main problem.
 
AndySmith1990 said:
We were rubbish under Rangnick due to players downing tools. The club was in such a toxic state during that period.

We're rubbish now by design. I have trouble understanding how anyone can support a manager who has taken us to where we are now due to his own incompetence, as opposed to the players throwing him under the bus
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Agree.
 
Toshey said:
I disagree.
Under Ragnick, you knew we were doomed against big teams.
Now I know we can beat anyone. We can also lose to anyone, being the main problem.
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We've lost all but 1 or 2 away games against top 8 teams, and been thrashed a few times by "Big teams"

If that gives you confidence then fair enough
 
ETH can't see the wood for the trees. Some things are just so obvious that he is just blind to them. I was a big supporter of his when he first arrived but his incompetence and ability not to adjust has lost me. He post match comments are becoming more and more delusional. If he is not sacked at the end of the season then Ratcliffe & Co. are clearly more clueless than I already think they are. ETH deserves sacking for the following:

1. Playing Antony so for so long when it was clear to anyone watching him he is a one trick pony that will never be suited to a top 10 Premiership team
2. Letting the board pay £80m or so for him.
3. Playing Martial (when fit). Thank god he is injured otherwise he would still be playing. ETH doesn't have a clue that some players excel in training but bottle it when it comes to opposition players because he isn't protected like in training. The whole Dan Gore / Martial fiasco in training just emphaises my point.
4. Playing Weghorst when McTominay would have done a better job as a striker.
5. Playing Rashford out of position as a striker when his best position is on the left side cutting in. e.g against Fulham, he should have played left , Garnacho right , and Forson through the middle. Imagine playing 2 out of your 3 strikers out of position when a 5 year old can see how the team should have started. My all means change it in-game but that schoolboy error is unexcusable.
6. Onana cost us £42m and another £25m as it was 100% his fault we finished bottom of Champions league. Our reserve Turkish goalkeeper is actually better - not with his feet but at what goal keepers are meant to do , save shots and give confidenece to the defence. ETH should have never been so loyal to Onana.
7. Playing two wingers out on the touch line that are clearly instructed to never drop in. Fergie could do it as we had a solid midfield and defenders, and forwards who were wolrd class so we could actually outscore teams if it became a ding-dong. Our present calibre of players mean we have gapping holes in the middle of the park.
8. His inconsistent treatment of players when disciplining, his favourites being played at all costs and his alienation of the squad and team atmosphere is another drawback.
9. Delsusional after match interviews saying we should have beaten teams when clearly we were second best in all areas. He really does treat the fans as mugs and assumes they are all schoolkids who can't think for themselves.
10 . Going defensive in games when having a slender lead and playing to invite pressure for the last 10 mins or so. How many games have we conceded with these tactics. He doesn't realise that defensively we are too poor to have this as a plan B.

I've got anothe 5 or so points but you get the gist ...
 
AndySmith1990 said:
We were rubbish under Rangnick due to players downing tools. The club was in such a toxic state during that period.

We're rubbish now by design. I have trouble understanding how anyone can support a manager who has taken us to where we are now due to his own incompetence, as opposed to the players throwing him under the bus
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This is ultimately the context of the demise this season, it's not conclusive of player quality or individual assessment but predominantly the failings of the manager on a tactical basis. There have been individual errors but those have happened in isolation compared to the consistency of the performances being nothing short of a constant tragedy regardless of opposition.

It's for this very reason that this is single handedly the worst season of any manager post SAF.
 
Ten Hag in or Ten Hag out.. can anyone tell me a positive to starting the 2024/25 with only 10 months left on his contract?
 
AndySmith1990 said:
We've lost all but 1 or 2 away games against top 8 teams, and been thrashed a few times by "Big teams"

If that gives you confidence then fair enough
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Away games are tough story, but we've been fairly good at home.
Under Ralf you know Spurs, City, Pool etc. are coming to OT for a training session.

We're chaotic and it goes both ways. I expect us to find a way to win just as much as I expect us to shoot ourselves in the foot.

It's not sustainable and not reassuring, but I don't think we stand no chance tomorrow.
With Ralf you knew we are just going to watch a massacre.
Eric can definitely pull off a win tomorrow.
Bad thing is you know he'll find a way to draw or lose to Brentford immediately after.
 
Toshey said:
Away games are tough story, but we've been fairly good at home.
Under Ralf you know Spurs, City, Pool etc. are coming to OT for a training session.

We're chaotic and it goes both ways. I expect us to find a way to win just as much as I expect us to shoot ourselves in the foot.

It's not sustainable and not reassuring, but I don't think we stand no chance tomorrow.
With Ralf you knew we are just going to watch a massacre.
Eric can definitely pull off a win tomorrow.
Bad thing is you know he'll find a way to draw or lose to Brentford immediately after.
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We beat Spurs 3-2.
 
Redstain said:
This is ultimately the context of the demise this season, it's not conclusive of player quality or individual assessment but predominantly the failings of the manager on a tactical basis. There have been individual errors but those have happened in isolation compared to the consistency of the performances being nothing short of a constant tragedy regardless of opposition.

It's for this very reason that this is single handedly the worst season of any manager post SAF.
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Yeah ETH has been an absolutely disaster this season, hard to comprehend what he is doing or why. Any mitigation regarding injuries and incompetence of likes of Arnold/Murtough etc has almost become irrelevant because of his bizarre management.

This season and the David Moyes season are examples of terrible management week in week out and just like Moyes it should cost him his job.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Ten Hag in or Ten Hag out.. can anyone tell me a positive to starting the 2024/25 with only 10 months left on his contract?
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Erik's contract situation is the only positive this season from a financial standpoint for the club. It also gives INEOS the opportunity from a sporting perspective to make a concise decision with what the long-term play is and who fits the mold of those objective intentions.

If they viewed Erik as being a crucial element to forecast success with, it's an easy choice to renew his contract. The fact that it hasn't materialized speaks volumes about the hierarchy's frame of mind more so than statements from journalists and interviews from staff. I said back in the new year that following this development is more telling of his future than anything else.

The details around how other clubs view the credentials of the manager also comes into play. Many have voiced this notion that Erik walks into another top job assuming automatic success, yet many clubs are looking for new managers and next to none have put United under pressure to resolve their current stance on the present manager. If anything the exact opposite is happening, other clubs requiring coaches is forcing the club to be more diligent concerning identifying a replacement.
 
Leftback99 said:
We beat Spurs 3-2.
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Ah yes, the Ronaldo hattrick game.
Liverpool, Arsenal and City trashed us and we never looked like we're capable to fight even for a draw.

My point is, I expect us to win against everyone and lose against everyone which is different than Ralf.
 
buckooo1978 said:
he has played that style of football - the issue is that we don't have quick defenders so we have to play a lower defensive line.

this is why we are so vacant in midfield and easy to run through.

Not sure where to find any recent stats

https://tribuna.com/en/news/manutd-...s-react-as-man-uniteds-pressing-stats-emerge/
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Shouldn`t a clever manager be able to see the problems and try to adapt?
Every manager that change clubs/teams will have to adapt to the new environment and players at their disposal.
 
Toshey said:
Ah yes, the Ronaldo hattrick game.
Liverpool, Arsenal and City trashed us and we never looked like we're capable to fight even for a draw.

My point is, I expect us to win against everyone and lose against everyone which is different than Ralf.
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I've no idea how you still expect us to beat everyone under Ten Hag.
 
Leftback99 said:
I've no idea how you still expect us to beat everyone under Ten Hag.
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It’s quite a bizarre opinion isn’t it? You literally never know what you’re going to get from this dysfunctional mess of a side, but sadly I’m usually expecting the worst this season, no matter who we’re playing.
 
News on Sky saying he "expects to remain in charge next season" ...the delusion is next level with this guy.
 
RedBanker said:
News on Sky saying he "expects to remain in charge next season" ...the delusion is next level with this guy.
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He will due to the cost of sacking him and all of the recruitment appointments not yet in place,oh yeah and that lack of stand out candidates excuse as well
 
Btw, did he say anything about those two pens? Klopp would be mental in media if that happened to Pool.
I said many tines; if you don't say anything, you will be fecked again. And again. Refs are just not afraid to make calls against us.
 
Judas said:
It’s quite a bizarre opinion isn’t it? You literally never know what you’re going to get from this dysfunctional mess of a side, but sadly I’m usually expecting the worst this season, no matter who we’re playing.
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Yeah they are truly Jekyll & Hyde
 
hobbers said:
Obviously he was dropped. Not like he needs a midweek rest is it given how little work he puts in.

Wouldn’t be so sure he’ll start on Sunday either given that Antony and Garnacho had positive contributions and Antony offers about 10x the work rate that Rashford.

If he does come back in it’ll just be yet another ten hag pandering blunder
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No it'll be because he wasn't dropped. Also, work rate isn't the be all and end all when it's wasteful and not backed up by actual attacking output.
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Ten Hag in or Ten Hag out.. can anyone tell me a positive to starting the 2024/25 with only 10 months left on his contract?
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There's none.

Players will treat him like they treated Rangnick.

And the club cant give him a new contract because then the inevitable sacking gets multiples more expensive.
 
hobbers said:
There's none.

Players will treat him like they treated Rangnick.

And the club cant give him a new contract because then the inevitable sacking gets multiples more expensive.
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He will have to have a new contract if he stays. He has stuff about control written into it.
 
roseguy64 said:
No it'll be because he wasn't dropped. Also, work rate isn't the be all and end all when it's wasteful and not backed up by actual attacking output.
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There's no way for him to have been more dropped than he was on Thursday. Period.

He came on with 25 minutes left with his team a goal up. Work hard off the ball and make runs to push Chelsea back/offer some sort of counter threat, for just 20 minutes, was all he had to do. And he couldnt be arsed. Antony had been doing it all game.
 
Woziak said:
I think Coventry is genuinely a 50/50 game but the wide spaces of Wembley suit our attackers who have elite pace, so hopefully Nick it 3-2 or 4-3, we like those type of games, we’ll get smashed by Liverpool and Arsenal at home probably lose to Brighton but somehow Nick 3 or 4 wins from the rest so I’m going we win 4 draw 1 lose 3 and finish with 61 points and probably 7th to 8th, if we don’t beat Newcastle they will finish ahead of us as they have a far easier run in and Chelsea, West Ham and Brighton could all get 62-64 points easily so we might end up 10th but most likely 7th to 8th, remember if EpL gets a 5th CL spot the. 6th and 7th qualify for EL if City win the Fa Cup, I genuinely think it’s that bad!

Chelsea have 43 points, have 9 games left and can easily win 6 of those 9, and finish on 64 points, right now I’m picking Chelsea 6th, Newcastle 7th, United 8th and that will get him sacked 100%.
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Yes think we will finish outside top 6 the way we are playing so anywhere 7th to 10th could be our final destination
 
Berbaclass said:
He will have to have a new contract if he stays. He has stuff about control written into it.
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Which is exactly why he cant stay.

Because his failure is inevitable and giving him a new deal means the £8m or whatever payoff will become £20m.
 
iHicksy said:
I think the issue is there's so few world class managers in world football. There's what, two in the prem out of 38? Arteta is starting to look like he might get there. Then you look abroad, at la liga and you look at the best three teams in spain and see:

Xavi at Barca (not world class),
Ancellotti at Madrid - Who knows? I'd say yes, but before hand the only job he could get was Everton (?!) - which is insane really.
Zidane - was it a case of right man at the right team at the right time? We're not sure because he's not done anything elsewhere.
Simeone - obviously done great things but we all know the type of football he uses to get those results.

So you're talking about a manager who won 3 CL's, another who's Real madrid manager who's won a ton etc....and how many of the above would you say you'd want at United? None of them? Maybe one as a risk? So when you look at some of the most successful managers in the world outside of Klopp/pep and you think....well actually i'd rather go with someone else, less successful and perhaps more "up and coming" you've got a huge risk to reward ratio.

And out of the above - how many would want to take that risk and come to United?

We did this with ETH, and we'll have to do it again.

Anyway that's a very long winded way of agreeing with you in terms of United is a massive draw for the top staff in the world, but when it comes to managers it's a bit of a different ball game.
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Why is there any doubt at all whether Ancelotti has been a world-class manager? Huh?
 
hobbers said:
Which is exactly why he cant stay.

Because his failure is inevitable and giving him a new deal means the £8m or whatever payoff will become £20m.
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I don't know about that.

They could offer him a year extension with certain targets which if not met allow termination at lower cost etc.

They will either give him an extension (with a re-written contract with new terms) or come to a mutial agreement for him to leave.

They simply won't allow him to go into next year status quo.

I'd be surprised right now if he's manager next season though personally. We just haven't shown enough to warrant the chance.
 
Berbaclass said:
He will have to have a new contract if he stays. He has stuff about control written into it.
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They should sack him imo or if keeping him on, then just give him a one year contract with less control with the promise if he does improve then there will be a chance of another. He knows hes on thin ice so should accept these terms, if he is kept on. His control should be something along the lines of Eric we have identified 3 CBs, A, B and C. Which order should we try to sign? Who would be your first and second choice.
 
Take with a pinch of salt that stuff about ETH expecting to be manager next season. Pretty sure I remember LVG saying the same back in early 2016.
 
Chairman Steve said:
Take with a pinch of salt that stuff about ETH expecting to be manager next season. Pretty sure I remember LVG saying the same back in early 2016.
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Like I said earlier though the situation is drastically different.

We have changed ownership and it's well known that ETH will have to reduce his controls to stay.

ETH will be very well aware that he is being assessed very closely at the moment. Also that he is treading a very fine line.
 
hobbers said:
There's no way for him to have been more dropped than he was on Thursday. Period.

He came on with 25 minutes left with his team a goal up. Work hard off the ball and make runs to push Chelsea back/offer some sort of counter threat, for just 20 minutes, was all he had to do. And he couldnt be arsed. Antony had been doing it all game.
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We weren't pressing as a team a lot when he was on so him pressing by himself wouldn't have made sense. Would have made the fans happier I guess though.
 
Berbaclass said:
Like I said earlier though the situation is drastically different.

We have changed ownership and it's well known that ETH will have to reduce his controls to stay.

ETH will be very well aware that he is being assessed very closely at the moment. Also that he is treading a very fine line.
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Yeah, it's much worse. LVG was guilty of boring football and barely missing out on top 4. ETH is literally only here right now because we have no contingency plan.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Yeah, it's much worse. LVG was guilty of boring football and barely missing out on top 4. ETH is literally only here right now because we have no contingency plan.
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I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the context around him with the owners, all the change and upheaval. You could in no way argue that ETH would be surprised to get sacked like LVG was. ETH 100% knows it's coming if we don't improve. On the face of it anyway.

Who knows what assurances he's had behind closed doors.

Just think the LVG comparison is such a lazy one.
 
Gordon S said:
Shouldn`t a clever manager be able to see the problems and try to adapt?
Every manager that change clubs/teams will have to adapt to the new environment and players at their disposal.
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I agree totally - looking at the profile of the players I think we need to be more economical with our pressing. The profile of players in attack and midfield are counter-attacking/quick transition players.

Our fit defenders are limited on the ball and suit box defending. This combination seems to leave huge holes in our structure.

Ideally we should be compact and breaking on teams - trying not to leave ourselves too vulnerable

a short term solution maybe but shocking that we can resort to these tactics with the budget we have
 
Berbaclass said:
I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about the context around him with the owners, all the change and upheaval. You could in no way argue that ETH would be surprised to get sacked like LVG was. ETH 100% knows it's coming if we don't improve. On the face of it anyway.

Who knows what assurances he's had behind closed doors.

Just think the LVG comparison is such a lazy one.
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Hmm, I do wonder if LVG was surprised at the timing and manner of it. Remember at new years time he made the comments about wine and mince pies? When asked if he would still be there next year.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Hmm, I do wonder if LVG was surprised at the timing and manner of it. Remember at new years time he made the comments about wine and mince pies? When asked if he would still be there next year.
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He may or may not have been surprised, I guess not but like I say, the situation and context around the club at the time couldn't be more different from today.
 
stevoc said:
Compared to this seasons performances/strategy/tactics/results, which have been our worst in the Premier League era. I'd be open to taking any current top 10-12 PL manager bar Moyes for a year.

We've been that bad, we don't have much to lose. It's actually surprising we're still in the top half of the table.
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So basically, Emery, Howe, O 'Neil, Poch, Iraola, or De Zerbi, as we won't get any of the rest. I'll also rule Poch and Howe out straight away.

I'd imagine Emery would have us sorted out pretty quickly, but not sure he'd have us winning much, so perhaps I could see the logic in him, but it doesn't really feel like a good fit for us, as for the rest I just don't think it's worth starting the process all over again with such risky managers.
 
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