Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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DJ_21 said:
Our first halves have Always been good in pre season, you can expect the drop of in the second halves when we’re changing a full team. There bound to lose rhythm and tempo. It’s all about seeing if any of the young lads shine and about getting the fitness up on all the players.
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The drop came before the changes, which is a bit worrying. Lets hope this isn't some sort of trend as the pitch was certainly an issue today and the players may have been put through a hard training regime. 2nd half was pretty much the United of last season, we still have a long way to go.

Trex said:
I think we still lack that technical leader in the middle of pitch, that guy who gets on the ball and no one can come close to him, this are the qualities you'll get from Eriksen and De Jong.
The intensity off the ball needs to improve though, didn't help DvB was his usual self.
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I find it always worrying when we have to hope for two new players (one not even finally transfered) to have a system work. Too much risk for me, today we lost the midfield battle in the 2nd half (only talking about time before the changes) where we had no grip at all and Players like McGinn and Luiz battled us out. The system is one thing, the intensity is another. But of course: a pre-season game shouldn't be taken as a measurement of that, I am hoping we will be more up for it when the season starts. Missing intensity was certainly a trademark of the last years so this is a thing that has to be solved.
 
Swedish_Plumber said:
Our depth there is shocking. Clear to all that it was the area that needed reinforced before last season and it wasn’t.

It’s a mistake to rely on our younger players should we not sign FDJ. They may well be good enough one day, but not sure they can be expected to pull us to where the barometers of success for Ten Hag will be (top 4).

I really do like him though. Speaks well and won’t let anyone think they’re above getting dropped if their performances deserve it. We’ve been screaming out for that most of all for years.
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True. I like ETH too and I just hope he knows what he is getting himself into if no reinforcement comes.
 
NZT-One said:
The drop came before the changes, which is a bit worrying. Lets hope this isn't some sort of trend as the pitch was certainly an issue today and the players may have been put through a hard training regime. 2nd half was pretty much the United of last season, we still have a long way to go.


I find it always worrying when we have to hope for two new players (one not even finally transfered) to have a system work. Too much risk for me, today we lost the midfield battle in the 2nd half (only talking about time before the changes) where we had no grip at all and Players like McGinn and Luiz battled us out. The system is one thing, the intensity is another. But of course: a pre-season game shouldn't be taken as a measurement of that, I am hoping we will be more up for it when the season starts. Missing intensity was certainly a trademark of the last years so this is a thing that has to be solved.
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We were playing two vs three in midfield as well if you know what I mean.
Plus the pitch was terrible for a possession based style, I won't be reading much into this game though.
 
Trex said:
We were playing two vs three in midfield as well if you know what I mean.
Plus the pitch was terrible for a possession based style, I won't be reading much into this game though.
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Yeah, just like last season and the season before. This will happen again, we have to make our players play more together and yes, that will mean, that Bruno will have to contribute more to the midfield play as well, even if that takes him further away from oppo goal.

So yes, you are right. But we have to expect that all (most of) opposition will do that so we have to have an answer for it.
 
bosskeano said:
conditions of the pitch is the same for both teams so that is such a shit excuse for anyone to make
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Yeah I can't lie, pretty shit excuse. Cant be one poorly watered pitch from dropping points in the league. Glad he didn't take this easy way out. There are stories of weaker teams famously telling their groundsmen to downgrade the pitch condition when possession heavy teams come to town. This is nothing ETH gives a damn about. Football can't only be good when the grass is green. We weren't good enough.
 
About today's second goal.
1) villa just hoof the corner high in the air so that their players would precisely know where it will drop
2) villa counting on ddg doesn't punch or collect the ball
3) Its last attack so they gambled on committing 3 strong players at the point of drop
4) They all bullied united players out in the air

ETH bought Martinez. Both know each other so I hope it will work. We have conceded similar goals earlier. And such goals are all about bullying in the box. We don't have a keeper who can command the crosses, we don't have midfielders, forwards and wingers who are good in air. Then we have right back and left back both weak in air. So defending such corners is all down to two center backs. And that is recipe for disaster.

I don't know how dominating martinez in the air but they say he is technically good. Fingers crossed.
 
This is going to take a few years. Let’s not overreact about a pre season game in Australia. No one will remember this. I’d be ecstatic if we get Top 4 this season - don’t think we will. Don’t think we have the squad for it.
 
I’m seeing a lot of posts about overreacting but no one seems to be too overreacty?
 
NZT-One said:
Yeah, just like last season and the season before. This will happen again, we have to make our players play more together and yes, that will mean, that Bruno will have to contribute more to the midfield play as well, even if that takes him further away from oppo goal.

So yes, you are right. But we have to expect that all (most of) opposition will do that so we have to have an answer for it.
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I wasn't even referring to Bruno, I was talking about Donny Van de Beek (Ajax golden boy).
Bruno was decent, VdB was invisible as always.
 
Trex said:
I wasn't even referring to Bruno, I was talking about Donny Van de Beek (Ajax golden boy).
Bruno was decent, VdB was invisible as always.
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Yeah he absolutely was. I am losing hope with DVB though, fear we will too long so we are not even getting any kind of value back from him... Bruno was alright, but the numerical issue you mentioned is also connected to him.
 
Tony247 said:
About today's second goal.
1) villa just hoof the corner high in the air so that their players would precisely know where it will drop
2) villa counting on ddg doesn't punch or collect the ball
3) Its last attack so they gambled on committing 3 strong players at the point of drop
4) They all bullied united players out in the air

ETH bought Martinez. Both know each other so I hope it will work. We have conceded similar goals earlier. And such goals are all about bullying in the box. We don't have a keeper who can command the crosses, we don't have midfielders, forwards and wingers who are good in air. Then we have right back and left back both weak in air. So defending such corners is all down to two center backs. And that is recipe for disaster.

I don't know how dominating martinez in the air but they say he is technically good. Fingers crossed.
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While I'm excited to see how much our build-up play improves with Martinez in the team, I share your concerns. We're already weak in the air and about to add a midget CB to the team. We can compensate for this by signing an aerially dominant DM but we don't look as if we're about to do that, so it is worrying.
 
NZT-One said:
Yeah he absolutely was. I am losing hope with DVB though, fear we will too long so we are not even getting any kind of value back from him... Bruno was alright, but the numerical issue you mentioned is also connected to him.
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We missed fecking Mctominay.....Eriksen and hopefully De Jong can't come quickly enough.
 
I love listening to Dutch people speak English. It’s like a German person speaking English with a Sean Connery accent.
 
wolvored said:
This.
If Ronaldo goes (and even if he doesnt is he going to stink the place up?) that leaves us with Martial and Rashford to play CF, who havent got 20 premier goals apiece a season in them. Elanga and Sancho are basically wingers. Even if we get Antony, ideally we need another striker. Could we promote McNeill, or the fact hes not even on tour means hes miles away from the bench?
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You do realize only 2 players scored over 20 league goals last year right?
 
Blood Mage said:
While I'm excited to see how much our build-up play improves with Martinez in the team, I share your concerns. We're already weak in the air and about to add a midget CB to the team. We can compensate for this by signing an aerially dominant DM but we don't look as if we're about to do that, so it is worrying.
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Agreed. I do think ETH has a philosophy and pattern of play. Whether he has the personnel to execute such a plan is something unknown. I don’t think he has the team yet. He definitely will not have it in this season. Martinez in isolation as a player in defense is reasonable but in a team where others cannot neutralise the aerial threat he is part of the problem. Can you play a high line press with this team, I doubt it. That said, he is correct to try and implement those patterns. The rubbish will float away in a couple of seasons. The real critical things to check is whether he is getting support from the club, can he actually produce results and progress in league, how he works with DOF and scouting and other parts of the club. A good manager will need multiple skills to succeed now. The selection of too many dutch players is a concern. The scouting and transfer activities are not great so far, the manner of deals that is. The coaching is good as there is a cohesive strategy to the play now albeit some players who cannot cope.
 
We've conceded 4 goals in preseason.

2 were headers direct from corners while Maguire (our best aerial presence) was off the pitch.

2 were counter attacks down the left with Shaw completely out of position and Lindelof shitting the bed with his defending.

If Maguire and Malacia can start, I'll be a lot more confident.
 
Tony247 said:
About today's second goal.
1) villa just hoof the corner high in the air so that their players would precisely know where it will drop
2) villa counting on ddg doesn't punch or collect the ball
3) Its last attack so they gambled on committing 3 strong players at the point of drop
4) They all bullied united players out in the air

ETH bought Martinez. Both know each other so I hope it will work. We have conceded similar goals earlier. And such goals are all about bullying in the box. We don't have a keeper who can command the crosses, we don't have midfielders, forwards and wingers who are good in air. Then we have right back and left back both weak in air. So defending such corners is all down to two center backs. And that is recipe for disaster.

I don't know how dominating martinez in the air but they say he is technically good. Fingers crossed.
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Even so, our defending of corners was pretty good last season, in spite of everything. It was Eric Ramsay’s first job, and it worked, so it is possible with these exact players. They have probably worked little on defensive corners this preseason so far. Ground play is much more important to begin with.
 
Grande said:
Even so, our defending of corners was pretty good last season, in spite of everything. It was Eric Ramsay’s first job, and it worked, so it is possible with these exact players. They have probably worked little on defensive corners this preseason so far. Ground play is much more important to begin with.
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I may be wrong, but I remember Ronaldo contributed in lot of header clearances. Again, I don't have the stats just memory here and there. A striker/forward with excellent heading can be quite handy in defending set pieces. Drogba in his chelsea days also was key presence in own box.
 
Trex said:
I wasn't even referring to Bruno, I was talking about Donny Van de Beek (Ajax golden boy).
Bruno was decent, VdB was invisible as always.
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i don't think we will see much more of VDB, he looks short of confidence and has no speed. Think he will and should be a make weight in future transfer moves. Even the kids are in front of him at this junction.
 
For what i see a lot of United supporters are still left sore at these players that cracked easily under pressure the last few seasons and threw a few managers under the bus with their lack of effort and unprofessional attitudes. There is a lot of trust to be regained lets be honest and one of the first big challenges for Ten Hag has on his hands is getting a United side that are likeable again and United team that you look forward to watching regardless of the opposition.
 
merc1976 said:
Agreed. I do think ETH has a philosophy and pattern of play. Whether he has the personnel to execute such a plan is something unknown. I don’t think he has the team yet. He definitely will not have it in this season. Martinez in isolation as a player in defense is reasonable but in a team where others cannot neutralise the aerial threat he is part of the problem. Can you play a high line press with this team, I doubt it. That said, he is correct to try and implement those patterns. The rubbish will float away in a couple of seasons. The real critical things to check is whether he is getting support from the club, can he actually produce results and progress in league, how he works with DOF and scouting and other parts of the club. A good manager will need multiple skills to succeed now. The selection of too many dutch players is a concern. The scouting and transfer activities are not great so far, the manner of deals that is. The coaching is good as there is a cohesive strategy to the play now albeit some players who cannot cope.
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He’s signed one Dutch player, Malacia, and wants De Jong. Oddly being used as a stick to beat him with for some reason. Simply lazy in my opinion.
 
Tony247 said:
I may be wrong, but I remember Ronaldo contributed in lot of header clearances. Again, I don't have the stats just memory here and there. A striker/forward with excellent heading can be quite handy in defending set pieces. Drogba in his chelsea days also was key presence in own box.
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Any good header of the ball is a plus, but being close to the top of the least goals conceded from set play list instead of bottom of it, is not about one useful player at the first post - it’s about organisation and practice.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
You do realize only 2 players scored over 20 league goals last year right?
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Whats that got to do with anything what other teams do? If and thats a big if, they hit their best ever premier goals total it will mean 34 goals so who is going to score the other 40-50 to get us to 4th place?
 
wolvored said:
Whats that got to do with anything what other teams do? If and thats a big if, they hit their best ever premier goals total it will mean 34 goals so who is going to score the other 40-50 to get us to 4th place?
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Sancho, a Ronaldo replacement/new forward signing and Fernandes will be big contributors. Eriksen will likely get a few, then the rest of the squad's tally.

Just to add, only once since Fergie retired, has 70 league goals not been enough to secure a top 4 place. That came in 2016/17.
 
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Remember the geese said:
Sancho, a Ronaldo replacement/new forward signing and Fernandes will be big contributors. Eriksen will likely get a few, then the rest of the squad's tally.

Just to add, only once since Fergie retired, has 70 league goals not been enough to secure a top 4 place. That came in 2016/17.
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We have only scored over 70 goals once since Fergie retired. I hope you are right and we manage it.
 
Dante said:
We've conceded 4 goals in preseason.

2 were headers direct from corners while Maguire (our best aerial presence) was off the pitch.

2 were counter attacks down the left with Shaw completely out of position and Lindelof shitting the bed with his defending.

If Maguire and Malacia can start, I'll be a lot more confident.
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Fair point.

I haven't watched all the preseason but I have a feeling Shaw's place is at risk, even if Malacia may not be sensational.
 
I liked EtHs response afterwards. The player realized this kind of results are no longer accepted. We will get there, I just wished we could have bought/sold more players
 
mav_9me said:
Fair point.

I haven't watched all the preseason but I have a feeling Shaw's place is at risk, even if Malacia may not be sensational.
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Shaw's place is not at risk. He had a very good game in the first half. The first goal was not his fault. He was supporting our attack when they counterattacked. The left side CB, Lindelof, had to do better with defending on that side and De Gea should not be beaten at that range as well. FBs can't be expected to defend their side effectively while being involved in the attack high up on the pitch at the same time.
 
TheReligion said:
He’s signed one Dutch player, Malacia, and wants De Jong. Oddly being used as a stick to beat him with for some reason. Simply lazy in my opinion.
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Erikson was a Ajax youth product and was there 5 years, Martinez is Ajax, Malacia is from similar system at feyenoord. I am not using that as a stick.What it means is there is a pattern and FDJ or antony would be another name to that. That pattern of recruitment would lead to a certain playing style. The deeper question is what if ETH fails? There is no guarantee of success and after last few coaches I am sure fans would be aware of recruitment driven by coaches. DOF and coach work together in modern football. Would having potentially 5 players from the dutch system of playing/development work for future recruitment? Would this not create groups within dressing room? It’s not an argument to say this is bad or good, that only time can judge if the strategy works. What i feel is it’s a short term fix to implement a philosophy ETH has. It’s buying players off the shelf for a given playing style. A different DOF may have done things differently and cooperatively with ETH. There is a lot of positive things evolving with ETH but it should not paper over the red flags in terms of overall recruitment.
 
Like some of us have said previously, it does seem like the football departments are going to be streamlined towards a particular method of play. And like with Klopp at Liverpool, it seems EtH is going to play a major role in aligning the process. Hopefully the appointment of a head of recruitment will be a big step towards streamlining/aligning the whole setup.



 
Adnan said:
Like some of us have said previously, it does seem like the football departments are going to be streamlined towards a particular method of play. And like with Klopp at Liverpool, it seems EtH is going to play a major role in aligning the process. Hopefully the appointment of a head of recruitment will be a big step towards streamlining/aligning the whole setup.

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Now this would be an excellent development. All the top clubs have been taking this approach for years and it shows how far behind we fell, but better late than never.
 
In these tweets are true - and I don't see why they wouldn't be given a number of them have been pretty clear to a blind man on a running horse - then I really hope we are taking note and making the required moves. I think we are, blind faith maybe, but I have much more confidence in this regime than the previous one/s.
 
He’s done well to increase the levels of playing technicality to bring in Eriksen and Martinez in, and potentially FDJ. Those three would radically change how we play games going forward. Parked buses will no longer involve praying for individual magic to bail us out when we’re completely stumped, as was the theme of the Solskjaer tenure.

I like that tempo was used in that article too. It’s ripe to make memes with J.K Simmons scenes in Whiplash and imposing ETH on it :lol:
 
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