De Gea's kicking went to shite under Mourinho who encouraged his defenders and keepers to just boot it into the opponent's half. He was one of the better kickers even till LVG. Even Bailly was a composed ballplayer when he first got here from spain. The most damaging thing under Jose was they didn't just lose their ability they permanently lost their composure on the ball. I don't think the ability can return once the mental aspect (composure in this case) is destroyed.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Promising signs.
Having the full-backs come inwards during build-up phases has helped our build-up while also freeing up the flanks and having someone isolated there vs just 1 defender.
Even the center-backs aren't rooted to their position and sometimes economically move further forward to free up space for the other center back whilst he's in possession.
Our build-up is getting better and better each game I feel.
There's some forced vertical passes when they're not necessary and then sometimes we delay the vertical pass when it's there.
Our pressing has gotten better, but there's still room for plenty of improvement. Sometimes the press is easily bypassed, because it's not fully synched and I think it could be of a higher intensity at times.
Either way, it's a promising start.
De Jong would be huge for this team. Him as a 6 and then Martinez from the back in build-up phases would be amazing.
Having the full-backs come inwards during build-up phases has helped our build-up while also freeing up the flanks and having someone isolated there vs just 1 defender.
Even the center-backs aren't rooted to their position and sometimes economically move further forward to free up space for the other center back whilst he's in possession.
Our build-up is getting better and better each game I feel.
There's some forced vertical passes when they're not necessary and then sometimes we delay the vertical pass when it's there.
Our pressing has gotten better, but there's still room for plenty of improvement. Sometimes the press is easily bypassed, because it's not fully synched and I think it could be of a higher intensity at times.
Either way, it's a promising start.
De Jong would be huge for this team. Him as a 6 and then Martinez from the back in build-up phases would be amazing.
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I can already see his qualities coming through but he needs to be backed. Conte at Spurs is on his second transfer window and I think he’s signed 8 players and completely changed the team.
I still think on Paper we have a better squad than spurs.
if/when De Jong is added it won't be close
Yeah but they were miles behind us this is the first time they’ve finished top 4 for a while and suddenly they’re looking really strong. Good manager, decent signings and champions league. If we’re not careful we can easily be left behind we need a midfielder (1 minimum) an attacker and a RB else Ten Hag is already up against it.
Worse than O'Shea for sure. O'Shea was a good backup in about 5 different positions. Higher level as a midfielder, even as just a backup, than McTominay. Whereas Fortune never even played enough games to get league winners medals.
But that's the key difference. O'Shea filled in due to someone being injured and was an excellent deputy, and Fortune was lucky if he started 2 (league cup) games a season. Lingard and McTominay are always referred to as "great squad players" but the reality is Lingard was a starter, and stank the place up until Bruno arrived. McTominay has pretty much always been a starter since Ole came in, and stinks the place up.
don't agree b/c simply they have Kane, Son, Kuluveski and Richarlison who are all proven players in the league and those front 3 last year in the system Conte plays
they've had a pretty solid window of putting pieces in place that suit the style with adding Spence and Perisic as wingbacks
If we don't add a forward and de Jong.....no chance our squad is better and we are going to struggle to make the top 4 as City, Liverpool and Chelsea are miles better right now
I was the one having that having that conversation with Champ earlier. I completely agree with you here @Aeryis
You can add Bissouma, Hojberg, Romero, Spence/Perisic? as players that would arguably start for us too. They will finish comfortably ahead of us this season in my opinion, and should do on paper.
Tell us how you really feel
The Chelsea love-in on this forum is nauseating.
They were supposed to finish ahead of us in 2019-2020 according to some people. They didn't.
Then after the 2020 window, they were miles ahead of us according to a lot of people on here. They didn't.
Then after the 2021 window, they were predicted to challenge City and Liverpool all the way. They didn't.
And now again, their squad is somehow miles ahead of ours. Pure nonsense.
They were supposed to finish ahead of us in 2019-2020 according to some people. They didn't.
Then after the 2020 window, they were miles ahead of us according to a lot of people on here. They didn't.
Then after the 2021 window, they were predicted to challenge City and Liverpool all the way. They didn't.
And now again, their squad is somehow miles ahead of ours. Pure nonsense.
Is McTominay really a scapegoat? I know he's not at fault for all our problems but I'm just sick of seeing him the line up, especially when you consider the personnel our rivals boast in comparison.
He was ok when he first came and progressively got better. By LVG’s second season his distribution was top notch.
Then Jose arrived. He hated anything that involved keeping possession and instructed De Gea to hoof the ball as hard and long as possible.
It’s only since ETH arrived that he’s been told to cut that out. He’s almost entirely done so, and I expect him to continue in that direction. If he doesn’t he’ll be dropped, but I don’t think that will be necessary.
so hopefully more of a mentality issue than an ability issue?
I actually think his reluctance to come off his line will be a bigger issue if he continues with it
Not really.
LVG actively wanted to push DDG out after first season in place for Keylor Navas, and only Woodward fax machine saved us. LVG is very extreme with his approach. DDG distribution and kicking, aerial presence, sweeping is always way less than ideal. However, DDG back then was at the top of his game in other aspect of his GK ability. You don't go changing GK to only improve playing out of the back slightly when you have holes throughout the team.
Carrick reached the end of his career by the time, Mourinho came in. There is no easy outlet to the backline and GK. Try to be cute short pass from GK, defenders with Pereira, Matic, Fred... both Mourinho and Ole got burned.
Now for EtH, he would need to sign a quality ball playing GK. Else he can't simply drop DDG to make an example. Heaton is even worse at kicking.
No, he's just a bit shit. Not his fault, but we really could and should be doing much better than McTominay as a starter in midfield. It's an example of the clubs lower standards in recent years that he's had as many appearances as he does. He's not kicked on and improved, there's nothing I would say he excels at, he's just... here.
That “equipment destruction” scene from “Office Space” comes to mind when I imagine what De Gea did to that fecking fax machine.
Career could’ve looked significantly different, oh well, the money’s been great at least.
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Wow what a difference a manager make. It is hard not to get carried away when you are entertained in matches. Can't wait to see them in person in Perth next. I recall I was at one preseason match aeons ago and it was such a drab and such a let down.
And I read a few people compare this preseason form to LVG's but there is a stark difference. For LVG preseason I was more amazed we had such a good run where we just pass (bore) the opponent to death and it starts to unravel come season starts. But ETH team is more entertaining and purposeful. Those who criticized McFred fail to see the improvement in this. Under Ten Hag go check how long they are on the ball after they received it. It is always one two touches get and release get the ball moving. That makes a big difference.
I am pumped!
And I read a few people compare this preseason form to LVG's but there is a stark difference. For LVG preseason I was more amazed we had such a good run where we just pass (bore) the opponent to death and it starts to unravel come season starts. But ETH team is more entertaining and purposeful. Those who criticized McFred fail to see the improvement in this. Under Ten Hag go check how long they are on the ball after they received it. It is always one two touches get and release get the ball moving. That makes a big difference.
I am pumped!
I am still skeptical, I guess. We played some wonderful stuff under LVG in preseason too. And look how that turned out. I am still not seeing the sustained pressure for a whole 90. If you watch Liverpool and city play, there is an intensity that you can feel while watching them, that I didn’t get while watching our preseason games this month.
That said, if we thrash Liverpool by 4 or 5 goals in week 3, I will be all in on the hype.
That said, if we thrash Liverpool by 4 or 5 goals in week 3, I will be all in on the hype.
So far i think ETH is doing great. Now we need to give him the tools and the players need to do their jobs this season.
The bar is beating allegedly best team in the world by 4 or 5 goals?
I am more patient this season. I'll take a beating by Liverpool and City this season due to the style we play but we pump every other team, and the real measurement this season is can we outplay Arsenal and Tottenham, preferably giving them a pasting.
There's a big difference between the way LVG and ten Hag approach the game and some unfortunately can't see it. Ten Hag plays with a much higher line and won't just ask his team to pass it around without purpose and will go direct and bypass the midfield if needs be. Ten Hag also wants his team to maintain a intensity off the ball via the conventional press and counter press, something which was absent with Van Gaal.
The difference between Van Gaal's basic form of positional play and ten Hag's vertical positional play is a big difference imo.
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Ditto
For sure.
But the point remains about how LVG pre season was awesome, similar to how we've started this pre season.
In LVG pre season, we were scoring beautiful goals with sweeping moves. We would keep the ball, keep the ball and have good team goals. That gave me lot of hope for that season, turned out to be false hope.
Having been burnt so many times since SAF retired, and feeling like we are cursed since then, I am extremely cautious about the coming season.
I for one would just be happy with continued attempts at playing his way, if we signs of progress on the pitch in the style of play. Maybe my expectations are low, but all i want is a well coached team with a style of play.
I'm comparing both men from their time before they joined United. Van Gaal was obviously ahead of the time in the early to mid 90s but didn't evolve as a coach. But the way he's talking nowadays, it seems he's been studying the methods of the modern day coach.
Neither ability nor mentality. He’s just followed the instructions he’s been given.
Bruno looks a different player since ETH came in. He’s clearly been told to cut out the Hollywood stuff and keep it simple. Players generally want to please the manager, so they do what they’re told.
Liverpool or City don't do this either. That tends to happen when you dominate possession.
And *sniff* have sudden asthma like symptoms
City maybe but Liverpool don't do that either. Having said that , I wouldn't expect ETHs system to be properly implemented until next season at the earliest. This season what I'd expect is the a definite and exciting system starting to come together.
This is quickly becoming this thread's version of 'Di Maria vibes' ...
Yea this seems to make more sense. Though all this “people who have actual ears” sort of insults from people is a bit unnecessary. The screaming happened after David’s kick and hence we thought it was connected.
Tuchel is fifth best manager in the league. When he took over they were terrific in the CL run. It was very impressive. Take that out and he has had normal ups and downs
I've seen some people suggest he screamed 'mctominay wouldn't start for any other top 16 team!'
Now that’s clearly bollocks! Try running a 5k and see how close to the 20-mark you can get. 16.01 is incredible.
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...sts-incredible-time-for-5km-running-challenge
It was apparently the 7th fastest time recorded in all of Britain that year.
If that’s not the definition of engine I don’t know. He is certainly a willing runner, although the efficacy of his running (i.e positioning) can and probably will improve with better overall coaching
Yeah that’s one thing you can’t criticise him for, he could run all day, brilliant stamina when motivated. Which he obviously wasn’t the last few years
Exactly they started last season strongly but from around October onwards they looked bang average, they're overrated here because of their UCL win. They're far from being close to City and Liverpool and are very much within sight.
There is hope with ETH that finally we have a coach with an effective style of play like Klopp and SAF.
The players can be in and out of the team (injuries and etc) but the style of play remains the same. Most importantly still getting results.
Having said that I understand other posters concern on similarity with LVG's start. LVG had a very good preseason and also at the start of the EPL season with great attacking football. He only changed to playing negative football after we suffered heavy defeat by Leicester. And never recovered from there.
The players can be in and out of the team (injuries and etc) but the style of play remains the same. Most importantly still getting results.
Having said that I understand other posters concern on similarity with LVG's start. LVG had a very good preseason and also at the start of the EPL season with great attacking football. He only changed to playing negative football after we suffered heavy defeat by Leicester. And never recovered from there.
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