Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Fallon d'Floor]

Without looking I'd say the 2011 CL final would be close to this game stats wise.

19 shots to our 4
63% possession to our 37%

Also, some of the greatest players of all time vs a limited United side who were fortunate to make the final. Piqué, Alves, Busquets, Xavi, Iniesta, Messi and Villa. We had Fábio starting at RB!

Yesterday's City team are good. Very good. But still not a patch on some of the names above.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I'm pretty sure our GD over the last 50 or so league games is 0. It's simply indefensible how poor his management has been since the league cup final.

I don't think there's been 5 good performances all season. It's appalling how much we've regressed this season.

 

[Lentwood]

Arteta is pretty much as far as a big club will go, basically giving a manager 2-3 years before improvement is noticeable, and even then you probably need to show some signs during those couple of seasons.

The improvement in Arsenal tactically and in their approach/mentality was evident from the beginning with Arteta. Results were poor at times because he had a poor team/squad.

We have shown no signs of progress whatsoever under EtH. When we win, it's largely because we have better players than our opponents. Whenever we play literally any team who is close in terms of personnel / ability we almost always get beaten.

 

[Oranges038]

UEFA.com has our possession at 37% with 4 shots against 19 in that game.

And that's versus the greatest club side of all-time.

It's a silly comparison too, because A) it's still us in a CL final and B) there was no club team ever beating Barcelona on that night

Yes. But that's the only game I can think of under SAF where you felt Utd were totally dominated and never had a chance.

 

[Jeffthered]

Is he completely demoralised because of his stupid recruitments? This is not the way we played last year. What's going on? Looks like he has come crashing down to earth and few meters below.

Trying to stay positive because this is not the first manager who gave hope and then disappointed. Tells us something fundamentally wrong within the club than just blaming the manager.

I still want to see how it looks like with ETH and right management behind him. Not giving up on him.

Can you explain what you mean by this? What would you expect to change? Ancelotti, Deschamps, Pep, Klopp.. they aren't good because of who are behind them, although this plays a role. They are good, because they are good, consistently good managers of big, high-profile football teams. ETH needs to look at himself. He has spent this season protecting himself, everything is excusable as far as he is concerned. He loves the job but he's struggling with improving teams and managers around him.

 

[KiD MoYeS]

For those saying they weren't unhappy with yesterday's performance. Bottom of the table Sheffield United managed more shots away to City this season. This is now the standards for some I guess.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

You can not defend ETH position, all the arguments for keeping him are beyond straw man.

• Injuries - every club in the league has a major injury or two or three which should have more impact than a handful of starters for United.
• Structure, Set Up - He was handed plenty of cash in the summer to sign players and prioritised a new GK and a broken creative midfielder we really did poor research on.
• Style of Play at Ajax - Ajax played AWFUL football under ETH when he had to rebuild the squad, in the lead up to appointing him I made a point to watch some of their games and came away a little alarmed but put it down to it being his last season but I see many of the same hallmarks of how that team played. Useless and clueless on the ball, defensively weak and set up to counter.

Then highlight the terrible situation we are in, the stats dont lie and I am sick and tired of the injury excuse, its piss poor.

Your telling me a club of united size didnt know that the pre season schedule and world cup wouldnt have effected the playing staff?

- 2 goal difference, 11 points off top 4, bottom of the group in the CL, terrible perfomances even in the games we do win, caught out time and time again by "lesser teams".

Its not just the players the manager has more than 50% of the blame.

 

[DWelbz19]

A little out of date, but still surprising.
And a lot of ifs and buts behind the statistics.

Top 5 Manchester United Managers Based On Win Percentage
A list of the five managers with the highest win percentage while in charge of Manchester United.
Data correct as of December 4, 2023.

Manager	From	To	Games	Wins	Win %
Erik ten Hag	2022	Present day	83	51	61.45%
Alex Ferguson	1986	2013	1,500	895	59.67%
Jose Mourinho	2016	2018	144	84	58.33%
Ole Gunnar Solskjaer	2018	2021	168	91	54.17%
Ernest Mangnall	1903	1912	373	202	54.16%

@RedSky posted some further context behind this stat with a good post earlier in the thread:

United Managers after 64 PL Games.

Manager	Win %	Loss %	CS	Games	W	D	L	GF	GA	GD	Total Points
Jose	54.69%	14.06%	32	64	35	20	9	105	47	58	125
Ten Hag	57.81%	29.69%	24	64	37	8	19	94	79	15	119
Ole	51.56%	23.44%	19	64	33	16	15	112	73	39	115
LVG	48.44%	23.44%	23	64	31	18	15	95	61	34	111

Yes, ETH has the highest win percentage. He also has the highest loss percentage and lowest total GD, scoring the least amount of goals and conceding the most. It's worth pointing out that he's lost over double the amount of games as Jose did. You did read that right, our goal difference after 64 games is +15

Even LVG who played the worst zombie football and was near the end of his career with us managed to score more goals.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

For those saying they weren't unhappy with yesterday's performance. Bottom of the table Sheffield United managed more shots away to City this season. This is now the standards for some I guess.

Standards here have truly gone down the toilet this season. Never been worse.

I even saw a few posters praising the performance saying it was similar to what SAF did vs Barca and Real.

 

[M16Red]

Standards here have truly gone down the toilet this season. Never been worse.

I even saw a few posters praising the performance saying it was similar to what SAF did vs Barca and Real.

Prove it.

 

[Fallon d'Floor]

Prove it.

See below. And he even had people saying it was a good post...

I must be the only one who thought we played well as a team. Out forwards were missing or abysmal, Rashford the worse.

But the overall team performance for 60-70 minutes gave me shades of a mix of United away to RM in SAF last season and the home match against Barca at OT when Scholes scored a wonder goal.

In the first half. We gave up possession but were the better team because our goalkeeper and defenders did their jobs to perfection. This led to us actually having the better opportunities than City. Just like our away match to RM in 2012/13

The second half was backs against the wall like the SF at home to Barca and we still created some great opportunities. The weaklink was really Rashford not controlling a ball that would have put him through on goal, fluffing a half volley, and then diving/falling when through on goal. He was at the quality he’s hyped up to be he’d have 1-2 more goals, we win the match and people call this match a masterful performance.

 

[pocco]

Prove it.

That sounded unbelievable to you? Have you not been on RedCafe these last 12 months?

There's another poster saying he should be given 3 more years.

 

[Longshanks]

Our combined XG against City this season is 7.19-0.86.

That is sackable by itself. Say what you like about injuries no good coach sets a team up that badly to get compleatly dominated home and away.

 

[Sarni]

The improvement in Arsenal tactically and in their approach/mentality was evident from the beginning with Arteta. Results were poor at times because he had a poor team/squad.

We have shown no signs of progress whatsoever under EtH. When we win, it's largely because we have better players than our opponents. Whenever we play literally any team who is close in terms of personnel / ability we almost always get beaten.

Agreed. We don't always lose those games but we are almost always second best in performance. We do have a few smash & grab wins but it's not what you are aiming for.

 

[Licha-Vidic]

 

[pcaming]

Considering that none of them have amounted to better jobs post-United, why is that hard to believe?

You know managers can fail at their job, because they're not good enough? This seems foreign to portions of the fanbase for some reason. It always has to be other reasons why they're failing.

The board throughout the time post-SAF have been awful. But the managers hired have also not been good enough.

-Moyes never managed a top club again.
-Van Gaal went back to managing the Netherlands
-Jose got sacked at Tottenham and Roma
-Ole is still without a job

ETH will also never get a job at a top club after this season too.

People that support ETH only do it because they feel it's the united way. At any club with proper standards and aspirations to be successful, he'd be gone. We have been crap for so long that people have settled in and accepted it which I find incredibly sad.

ETH has failed this season. He has been on a downward path since the end of his first season as well. There is no real way to recover from this, as it is not only down to players and whatever excuses you want to dig up...fundamentally, as a coach, ETH has failed. Period.

 

[CallyRed]

Christ.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

It was a good performance. Fine margins.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Seriously, some of you need a word with yourselves and stop reading into what the manager says in press conferences.

There is enough to be concerned about at the club without adding things that dont matter.

What ETH says in the media is not what he says to players behind closed doors. What a manager says in media doesnt matter to fans if the team is winning and playing well, so I dont see why it matters when we are playing poorly.

His job isnt to say things that fans want to hear, its to say whatever he feels will help the dressingroom. Its so funny cause when you are a manager stuggling whatever you do is interpreted as a negative.

When he managed different player issues in different ways. Too harsh, not harsh enough, no standards, too high standards, hes training them too hard, players dont work hard enough.

ETH is probably gonna be replaced, but some of you go far too down these negative rabbit holes, looking for things to make you even more angry at him.

 

[Lay]

I do not feel comfortable with the amount of excusing that points to Ferguson apparently doing similar / worse job or whatever. We don't owe nearly enough to ETH to wipe the floor with Fergie to protect him.

This. ETH means feck all to the club. He will be a footnote in the history of the club when he leaves/is sacked

 

[Lewnited]

I genuinely can't belive what I just listened to We broke on them a couple of times in the first 30 mins, didnt make the most of our counters and proceeded to create nothing for the next hour, ultimately losing 3-1 and being toyed with like an U21s team.

I'd sincerely expect a similar performance from a championship side going up against City.

 

[M16Red]

Seriously, some of you need a word with yourselves and stop reading into what the manager says in press conferences.

There is enough to be concerned about at the club without adding things that dont matter.

What ETH says in the media is not what he says to players behind closed doors. What a manager says in media doesnt matter to fans if the team is winning and playing well, so I dont see why it matters when we are playing poorly.

His job isnt to say things that fans want to hear, its to say whatever he feels will help the dressingroom. Its so funny cause when you are a manager stuggling whatever you do is interpreted as a negative.

When he managed different player issues in different ways. Too harsh, not harsh enough, no standards, too high standards, hes training them too hard, players dont work hard enough.

ETH is probably gonna be replaced, but some of you go far too down these negative rabbit holes, looking for things to make you even more angry at him.

It's an internal matter!

Ps, does anyone know where the hell is Mason Mount

 

[TsuWave]

Not at Old Trafford. At smaller but better run cubs.

How many managers at Old Trafford/since Ferguson retired, have had 11 league losses, -2 goal difference and 44 points in March? Have you not seen better than this?

Do you think it's just a random coincidence that all our post SAF managers have failed? They were all randomly rubbish?

I don't know why you keep trying to divorce structural and managerial change.

No, I don't think it's a random coincidence they all failed. Yes, they were all rubbish. Or at the very least not equipped/good enough to take us where we needed to go.

Moyes - steady eddie mid-table prem manager
LvG - washed up. hadn’t been in club football for years
Mourinho - washed up. sacked from previous two jobs including having a title winning team languishing at 16th
Ole - no credentials in a top 5 league, initially an interim

That was the point of the punt on Ten Hag - we'd been largely appointing washed up and unqualified managers, Ten Hag himself falls under the unqualified label, but he at least was someone that looked to be in an upward trajectory, and that we believed would be able to instil a good brand of football here - it hasn't happened - we should move on.

for reference, read below, some of these clubs have been considerably more successful than United since Ferguson retired:

I mean we have fans who somehow believe that 6 managers in 10 years is a lot or too much.

People should remember that during the same period of time Bayern had 8 different managers(including interims), Real Madrid had 6 different and 7 in total, Juventus had 4 different and 5 in total. Both Milan team have had 10 different managers. Napoli have had 7 different managers. The point being that United are arguably the club that underachieved the most and one of the key issue is the club reluctance to change things quickly

 

[UnofficialDevil]

How can our players him seriously? Imagine him giving team speeches like this. Man is deluded.

 

[2 man midfield]

Fergie had been here for 19 years when he got eliminated in CL groups, it was the first time he was knocked out in groups as well and we had been competing there since 1996-97 without pause. It's really not comparable with ETH who has achieved virtually nothing here and has zero credit in the bank.

I don't think injuries can really excuse going out from that group. It'd be one thing if we were paired with decent, tough teams but we basically had the easiest group imaginable with two absolutely Conference League teams in Copenhagen and Galatasaray. To only win 4 points out of 12 against them is ridiculous even with 3-4 first team players out.

Obviously I’m not trying to say Ten Hag has anything like the credit that Sir Alex had in the bank. All I’m saying is context matters, and we were hugely hamstrung by injuries and inconsistent play in all of these seasons where it happened. You can’t ignore that on the one hand and still use it to string up Ten Hag on the other just because you don’t like him - it either matters or it doesn’t.

He also won how many premier leagues and a champions league before that.

ETH has us sat 11 points behind 4th scraping last min wins against Forest whilst playing terribly.

There is no "what aboutisms"

I’m aware. I’m just saying either injuries matter or they don’t. If not even the greatest manager of all time could stop a threadbare team from finishing bottom of a CL group with Benfica, Villarreal, and Lille should we really be surprised that Ten Hag hasn’t managed to do so with a worse squad?

 

[adkb]

I am firmly ETH in.

We have been through many managers and have had the same bloody trend. Good first season and poop second season.

Firing a manager is poor decision making.

He has the best winning rate of all managers. That is enough for me to trust him.

 

[VP89]

I am firmly ETH in.

We have been through many managers and have had the same bloody trend. Good first season and poop second season.

Firing a manager is poor decision making.

He has the best winning rate of all managers. That is enough for me to trust him.

Same. Me and @Leftback99 both

 

[glazed]

How many managers at Old Trafford/since Ferguson retired, have had 11 league losses, -2 goal difference and 44 points in March? Have you not seen better than this?

I don't know why you keep trying to divorce structural and managerial change.

No, I don't think it's a random coincidence they all failed. Yes, they were all rubbish. Or at the very least not equipped/good enough to take us where we needed to go.

I agree he's not done well. And yet when our best 11 are fit they would beat any of those other Uniteds and play nicer football doing it.

That said, ETH has failed to deliver, no question. It's just that the failures lie with the club as much as with him. I'm not convinced anyone else would have done better.

 

[Yagami]

I am firmly ETH in.

We have been through many managers and have had the same bloody trend. Good first season and poop second season.

Firing a manager is poor decision making.

He has the best winning rate of all managers. That is enough for me to trust him.

How is firing a manager poor decision making? Every club in the history of forever has done it. We wouldn't have had Sir Alex if we hadn't fired Atkinson. Liverpool wouldn't have had Klopp had they not fired Rodgers. Chelsea would not have won the European Cup had they not sacked AVB. I could go on and on.

None of the managers we've sacked have shown it was a mistake to dismiss them. I'm fairly sure it will be the same with ten Hag.

 

[Leftback99]

I agree he's not done well. And yet when our best 11 are fit they would beat any of those other Uniteds and play nicer football doing it.

That said, ETH has failed to deliver, no question. It's just that the failures lie with the club as much as with him. I'm not convinced anyone else would have done better.

That's nonsense.

 

[Judas]

It's all got a bit desperate and tragic. As much as I still think this squad should be mostly shipped off, the manager has failed.

 

[The Hilton]

We're comfortable at the back when everybody's fit.

But we're definitely not comfortable in the opposition half.

Agreed, but a lot of that is down to the personnel, our forward players aren't really built for holding on to the ball, except perhaps Hojlund, we've struggled with attacking play when there isn't space to run into for a decade now.

 

[Gordon Godot]

I am firmly ETH in.

We have been through many managers and have had the same bloody trend. Good first season and poop second season.

Firing a manager is poor decision making.

He has the best winning rate of all managers. That is enough for me to trust him.

I am sorry but this is absolutely deluded. Its not about patterns. All our previous appointments pre ETH were poor, some just a joke. The bar is set very low, and the club is dysfunctional. But ETh has been given full backing with £400m to spend and a veto if not seemingly full control over transfers in a way unprecedented at a top club. People say he was set up to fail, but he wanted transfer control, if had to accept players he probably doesnt come. He wanted Antony and all the rest. Thats one of the most concerning things. He's certainly done a great job at lowering expectations wherby some seem to treat a 3-1 loss at City with 20% possession as some form of masterclass.

The play on the pitch is garbage. We are simply awful to watch, its literal chaos and we only score out of individual great play out of that same chaos. We cant retain or more the ball to create openings, so very few phases of play in the oppo half. I wont go on. But there is nothing we see

He has a high win rate as he played a full strength team in the mickey mouse cup that we won, had a fairly easy Europa draw, and so far an easy FA cup draw. Seriously get some perspective.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

It was a good performance. Fine margins.

We sat camped our final third like frightened kittens in that second half. We’re the only big club where it’s deemed okay to play this way.

 

[Zed 101]

Is tactically less astute than Ole, we are now going backwards fast, get shot

 

[FootyGirl88]

I dunno I think maybe he could have taken the middle ground somewhere, when Jose was brutally honest about the club and players etc everyone said he was toxic.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

He’s becoming very delusional in his post match press conferences.

 

[Sarni]

Obviously I’m not trying to say Ten Hag has anything like the credit that Sir Alex had in the bank. All I’m saying is context matters, and we were hugely hamstrung by injuries and inconsistent play in all of these seasons where it happened. You can’t ignore that on the one hand and still use it to string up Ten Hag on the other just because you don’t like him - it either matters or it doesn’t.

I think injuries are a very poor excuse for our CL exit.

We were only missing Shaw from our fist team when we played in Munich. We had a strong team out there against Galatasaray, missing only Martinez and Shaw when we lost 3-2 at home. We had Casemiro, Martinez and Shaw out when we played Copenhagen in Denmark and at OT.

If our group was like Bayern, Porto and Napoli or something then maybe having 2-3 players out could have been a decisive factor, the fact that we were in the group with two of the weakest teams in the competition and they both beat us and finished above us cannot be excused by having a couple of players out. Our B team should be perfectly capable of finishing ahead of them.

 

[Gordon Godot]

I dunno I think maybe he could have taken the middle ground somewhere, when Jose was brutally honest about the club and players etc everyone said he was toxic.

Jose was just blowing things up to get a pay off, He was toxic. ETH seems utterly deluded. Its embarrassing

 

[glazed]

That's nonsense.

It's not. I'll go one better and say we looked quite competitive and well drilled with City in the first half. If Hojlund, Shaw and Martinez were fit we would have lost less badly in second half (but we would still have lost.) Our current best 11 is quite a decent team bar Casemiro when he gets tired.