Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I don’t really have any criticism for him for today. He set us up in the only way it was reasonable for him to set us up, and barring an extreme off day from City they were going to always steamroll us. We’ve been outplayed in recent weeks by teams much weaker than City.

Whether the fact we are in this place at this point in time is in any way his fault is the real question to which people are going to inevitably have different answers. Some will say it’s totally his fault that we’ve made no progress whatsoever since he joined, some will blame injuries, some will blame Glazers and some will go in a totally different direction.
 
Sarni said:
I don’t really have any criticism for him for today. He set us up in the only way it was reasonable for him to set us up, and barring an extreme off day from City they were going to always steamroll us.
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That an extremely defeatist attitude. With that, we'll never win.

A defensive set up against City will never even get us a draw. I'd rather we attack more and lose 4-1 that this lame game. Not like it was even a hard fought win for them!

At this point, he's just out of ideas. Time for a change.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
That an extremely defeatist attitude. With that, we'll never win.
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Well, where we are right now, even much lesser teams outplay us on a regular basis. We won’t go from being second best for large chunks of game against mid-table teams to going toe to toe with City. Pretty much every top team has toyed with us recently, Bayern came to OT with nothing to play for, fielded a weakened team and we still did not threaten them once in a must-win game. It’s just where we are, we are one of the worst in the league when stacked up against top 4 teams.
 
glazed said:
It's known that every Glazer manager has a dismissal clause if they miss Champion's League. That off hand remark was ETH's P45.

Personally I would keep him (and I've been keen to sack every SAF successor) but I doubt people have the patience for that.
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He's only got one year left on his contract come the summer. In the grand scheme of things paying him out in May is small potatoes.
 
Chesterlestreet said:
Hard to disagree too much with how he set up, sure.

All these posts criticizing what is - ultimately - very minor details (don't play Lindelöf at LB) seem a bit silly to me, to be honest.

He basically set up to hit 'em on the counter and hope for the best - which is...well, it's a pragmatic approach under the circumstances.

It's the bigger picture, though. He is to a considerable degree responsible for the state of this squad, given the time he's spent with it and - not least - the input he's had in terms of recruitment (something he, himself, has positively craved by all accounts - it's not something the club has forced on him).

So, yeah, in isolation - no issue with him not going for an obviously suicidal "let's dominate City" approach.

The fact that some form of "hit 'em on the counter" approach isn't just a contingency plan (because of injuries), but something much closer to our default approach, however...that's something else, and very much an issue well into his second season.

As always, people will go into an odd form of meltdown after a defeat like this (which was pretty much a foregone conclusion - if we had somehow pulled off a win here, it would've been...what? Feckin' lucky, it could hardly have been the result of us suddenly turning into a genuinely grand team), but on the other hand what we saw today very painfully highlights our (and his, I would say - sorry) shortcomings.
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Can’t agree with this.
It’s not knee jerk, we’ve lost 11 games in the season so far , there’s plenty of evidence before this that he’s not up to it.
This is just the latest of a long string of pathetic games and performances by him as a manager.

I think he can be judged against this game amongst others.
 
cpresc said:
Wow the hate in here tonight is rough..

I actually thought he set us out well, with a decent (albeit defensive) gameplan which was very well executed in the first half - considering our injuries and the fact City had all their best players available.
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I think the problem is that Bournemouth, Brentford, Chelsea, and arguably Burnley all put up a better fight.
 
Robbie Boy said:
ETH is proving to be shite, utter shite. But make no mistake, Ole was awful too.
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never get the whataboutery with our managers. ‘X was even worse’. And? Does that make the other really good? Ten Hag is shit. Sorry. Ole wasnt good enough. Yet if you watch our play in the final 3rd under him our current side is much worse. And Ole played counter attack and we could never break a low block.

Its got boring now. ETH cant coach the side to be good at anything - we cant control possession. We cant defend. We cant score. His signings are dross bar 1 or 2. Just drifting through matches. Yet people drone on about luck and injuries as if it absolves him of the fact we are awful in every aspect. The only place we are headed under him is mid table obscurity.
 
FujiVice said:
I'll be honest, losing 7-0 to Liverpool last year has completely killed any enthusiasm I had for him. I've not gotten over it.
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Trent was being ripped apart all season. Every wide player with pace was taking him apart, in the middle of that and many people questioning his ability and future as a fullback, what does ETH do? Does he play Rashford out wide where he was tearing it up all season?

No he played Bruno out there for fecks sake.
 
His team gave up as soon as foden scored
Quite sad, it's the same pattern everytime we played against city under eth.

2-1 win was a fluke more than anything
 
TrebleChamp99 said:
Can’t agree with this.
It’s not knee jerk, we’ve lost 11 games in the season so far , there’s plenty of evidence before this that he’s not up to it.
This is just the latest of a long string of pathetic games and performances by him as a manager.

I think he can be judged against this game amongst others.
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Well we’ve lost 16 times (1 in CC and 4 in CL as well) and arguably it should be over 20 now as there were many games in the league that we drew / won where we deserved to lose (on the other hand I cannot think of many where we could feel hard done by a loss).
 
Sarni said:
I don’t really have any criticism for him for today. He set us up in the only way it was reasonable for him to set us up, and barring an extreme off day from City they were going to always steamroll us. We’ve been outplayed in recent weeks by teams much weaker than City.

Whether the fact we are in this place at this point in time is in any way his fault is the real question to which people are going to inevitably have different answers. Some will say it’s totally his fault that we’ve made no progress whatsoever since he joined, some will blame injuries, some will blame Glazers and some will go in a totally different direction.
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I believe is a significant factor to place blame on but not the only factor, the other being players and application.

Both can be fixed by replacing him and also the players. Unfortunately it hasn’t worked with him.

We have a new structure and leadership in place they should be allowed carte blanche to change as they need to that includes unpopular moves like replacing the manager.

There’s no point in keeping him since he isn’t their choice and it will become very expensive if they hand him another contract.

Logically there is no reason to keep him.
 
He sounds like Baghdad Bob with his level of delusion, surely that's the end game for him as a manager
 
Sarni said:
Well we’ve lost 16 times (1 in CC and 4 in CL as well) and arguably it should be over 20 now as there were many games in the league that we drew / won where we deserved to lose (on the other hand I cannot think of many where we could feel hard done by a loss).
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Agreed, not making it out that group in the CL and finishing rock bottom has been forgotten and was sackable alone.
 
TrebleChamp99 said:
Agreed, not making it out that group in the CL and finishing rock bottom has been forgotten and was sackable alone.
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I said at the time that if it was a Polish team finishing with 4 points (lucky that Copenhagen missed a late penalty at OT too) and bottom of that group, their manager would be in real trouble, and our league is horrendous.

Copenhagen beat Rakow in playoffs before CL and the consensus here was that it was poor job by Rakow as Copenhagen looked nothing special.
 
People are going to state that we’ve got an injury stricken squad and any manager would struggle with the quality we have at our disposal. But a manager who can’t get a tune from anyone but their first 11 shouldn’t be a manager for Manutd. If the players aren’t motivated then the manager too has to take the blame and face the sack.

I’m quite surprised ETH is still around.
 
Sarni said:
I said at the time that if it was a Polish team finishing with 4 points (lucky that Copenhagen missed a late penalty at OT too) and bottom of that group, their manager would be in real trouble, and our league is horrendous.

Copenhagen beat Rakow in playoffs before CL and the consensus here was that it was poor job by Rakow as Copenhagen looked nothing special.
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We're a small time club with the resources of a big one. We're closer in culture and attitude to Crystal Palace than Real Madrid or Bayern Munich.
 
Tactically terrible again and he made horrible subs. He basically gave the game to City second half. We’ve conceded second most shots in the league, the only team below are going to probably concede the most shots in PL history.

Our goal difference is -2.

None of our players has 10 league goals alone, highest is 7…

We are 2 points above West Ham and they hate their manager…

No style of play.

After the Everton game we actually have a different run of fixtures so we might not even get top 6.
 
I actually dont blame Ten Hag for the loss today. He messed up against Fulham, Nottingham, Palace, but not today.

36 year old Evans, who wasnt able to find a club this summer even on a free, no natural striker, no natural left back. 2 kids from the academy, Garnacho on his 23rd game in a row, can barely walk. Substitute bench that has not got a single player worthy of changing a game. I'm not slating Evans, he has done a job for us, but he shouldn't be starting v City, as he doesn't have the pace to do recovery runs so that we can step few yards further.

I understod the gameplay due to so many injuries, but if you have players that can not play a pass under pressure, such as Lindeloff who was gettingrid of the ball like it was lava, or a midfielder such as McTominay, that cant drible, cant give a pass, is not press resistant, this is the outcome.

Even if he goes, we still need 7-8 new players. Which is not going to be easy.
 
Sarni said:
I said at the time that if it was a Polish team finishing with 4 points (lucky that Copenhagen missed a late penalty at OT too) and bottom of that group, their manager would be in real trouble, and our league is horrendous.

Copenhagen beat Rakow in playoffs before CL and the consensus here was that it was poor job by Rakow as Copenhagen looked nothing special.
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Completely agree.

Then you have the injuries excuse its utter bullshit , look across the league and every single team has a significant injury list it’s not just us.

I saw people defending the Fulham result saying injuries but I’m sorry they completely dominated us at OT and beat us when they had like three main players out one of them considered their only good player in Willian.

I’m completely baffled by the ETH defence force.
He should have been sacked before Christmas.

In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a gentleman’s agreement that he goes by mutual consent and he’s just keeping things afloat whilst the other guys come in.

We can hire a manager relatively late (barring competition) as the club , rightly so, will be signing the players to the new ideaology of the club over fitting any specific managers style or philosophy and the coach will then also fit that philosophy.

We need a head coach not a traditional “manager” who runs everything.
 
mu4c_20le said:
Despite what feels like one of the worst seasons in our modern history, he is still at a humble 50% win rate across all competitions.
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We're also on track for a worse points total than the Moyes season (61.56 this season vs 64 under Moyes)
 
-2 goal difference in March
Least amount of shots on goal vs city in the PL , that includes Burnley.

utter shambles even a league 2 manager would get more out of these players
 
TrebleChamp99 said:
Agreed, not making it out that group in the CL and finishing rock bottom has been forgotten and was sackable alone.
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Sir Alex finished bottom of the champions league group twice post 2005 - should he have been sacked as well?
 
2 man midfield said:
Sir Alex finished bottom of the champions league group twice post 2005 - should he have been sacked as well?
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Yeah, that's right, because Ferguson had no credit in the bank.

I am a fan of ETH and honestly think a big part of the problem is not him. This cycle will continue until some players are no longer at the club and there is a complete overhaul. I also still think ETH will go on to have a successful managerial career. If he had come in with the club in any kind of good shape he would have done well. All that said, this season has been too poor and I don't think the dressing room is on his side. We have been here before and I would sooner see half the squad gone but that isn't going to happen. So, ETH will become the sacrifice, just like Ole and Jose. At this point, he is not making it easier for himself either and the more weeks of shit that go by I think he maybe knows he is on his way out and is just trying to get to the end of the season.
 
Shark said:
This notion seriously needs to stop. You're talking about two of the greatest managers in world football and two of the all time greats. Since SAF has stepped down we've signed Moyes, LVG who was past his best, Mourinho also past his best, Ole and then took a gamble on a Dutch league manager with a lot to prove.
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TsuWave said:
There's nothing to support that notion.
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And yet analyst after analysts has identified that the club structure is the problem. From Rangnik to gary Neville to INEOS. There's broad agreement about the cause of what we see on the pitch. No manager would have succeeded.

Of course it is easy to think like a Roy of the Rovers fan and just blame the coach. But these are complex multi-billion pound businesses with multiple fail points. I'm not saying ETH could not have done better. But I don't see the failures as mainly his failures.
 
glazed said:
And yet analyst after analysts has identified that the club structure is the problem. From Rangnik to gary Neville to INEOS. There's broad agreement about the cause of what we see on the pitch. No manager would have succeeded.
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None of them are analysts.
 
I hope he grows his hair for once cause just maybe his balls will grow back too.
 
Licha-Vidic said:
Old Trafford record still stands for like 40 years. Since 1984.
This is home and away for like 10 years, it has stood. It has collapsed today.
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Yeah before today it stretched right back to Leicester away in September 2014. The game where we led 3-1 and ended up losing 5-3. You might remember it better for the snakes chip goal.

I see he is coming out with the unlucky not to win or draw post match BS again. Come on Erik it's not like they scored in the last seconds. Any chance INEOS could put an interim in charge who is able to play the style they are looking to implement
 
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Rightnr said:
It all goes back to that speech by SAF when he was leaving. Performative bullshit support, instead of realistic expectations and looking at the club with open eyes.
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You are absolutely spot on,his daft back the manager speech made people believe that's the right way to think about any future ones
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
That an extremely defeatist attitude. With that, we'll never win.

A defensive set up against City will never even get us a draw. I'd rather we attack more and lose 4-1 that this lame game. Not like it was even a hard fought win for them!

At this point, he's just out of ideas. Time for a change.
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Fergie was equally defensive against Barca in 2008. Only difference was he had actual players instead of Evans Lindelof and McT up front

We attack more and we lost 6-3 last year
 
His levels of delusion are almost as embarrassing as the results , he is becoming a figure of fun within the game as is the club itself, but the laugh is on us.
 
I think he remains until top 4 is done, and not because INEOS want him to remain but the CL clause was there before they came.

don’t think such clauses will exist in the future to give INEOS greater flexibility.
 
croadyman said:
You are absolutely spot on,his daft back the manager speech made people believe that's the right way to think about any future ones
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I think these people were broken all along.

There's probably a case for some social research on our fanbase - I have a feeling, that we probably have an unusually large number of people from single parent families that latched onto the club/SAF as a way of filling that paternal hole in their life.
 
FujiVice said:
I'll be honest, losing 7-0 to Liverpool last year has completely killed any enthusiasm I had for him. I've not gotten over it.
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Good to see others can't see past that result either,was easily the worst result in my 30+ years of following this club. He completely broke my trust with that diabolical second half performance.
 
saivet said:
He said we defended brilliantly and it was a good performance overall
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I don’t think that’s an outrageous take to be honest. We kept City out until Evans and Mainoo tired/went off.
I think in the context of how we set out today it was a good performance. Whether you think low block ultra compact defence is the right tactic is a different conversation.
We scored first, Marcus could had scored again first half, and then Garnacho and Rashford could have been through 1 on 1 to score each had they stayed on there feet. We could have easily had a (albeit very soft) penalty too. If we score 3/4 at the Etihad this is a very different thread. Jose would have been congratulated on parking his bus again today, no different for Erik.
We executed our game plan, we just aren’t as good as the opposition and we aren’t as good as many on here like to think
 
Skills said:
I think these people were broken all along.

There's probably a case for some social research on our fanbase - I have a feeling, that we probably have an unusually large number of people from single parent families that latched onto the club/SAF as a way of filling that paternal hole in their life.
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What a weird fecking post.
 
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