Playing Onana as a hoofball launcher after coaching him for years is a sackable offense though. Step 1: buy a keeper known for his playmaking/passing. Step 2: ask him to launch hoofballs upfield. Step 3: profit ? Also coaching both Antony and Kudus then came into the conclusion that the former was better and worth 100m
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Yeah you are absolutely spot on about teams sensing an opportunity to get back in the games. Just look at Copenhagen (away) Galatasaray (twice), Luton (away) and Wolves (away) to see proof of that.
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Two reserve keepers never needed. An emergency left back never used and returned prematurely. And one of ETH's favourite all-time midfielders who he promised to come and sign all summer. And who we paid £8m for so certainly not a loan in any real sense.
Only one loan there came in as a serious first team option despite it being clear a major signing was needed.
This sort of argument is almost as nonsensical as the injury one, while we watch a competent coach like Klopp somehow manage his side to play the exact same style of football with academy kids
So Bosz did all the hard work and Erik reaped the benefits is what this sounds like
Not a fan of carragher but what he says actually make sense : sportbible.com/football/football-news/man-utd/jamie-carragher-man-united-fulham-erik-ten-hag-221219-20240226
It is either poor coaching or lack of leader in the backline to identify risk and shift the defence line according to situation.
I'm sure ferdinand would have screamed for his backline to push up and close off the gap in those situations.
It is either poor coaching or lack of leader in the backline to identify risk and shift the defence line according to situation.
I'm sure ferdinand would have screamed for his backline to push up and close off the gap in those situations.
It should have been eye-opening to the people still supporting ETH, but they'll still bring up the injury excuse to absolve ETH.
I truly don't know how our fans have lowered their standards this much.
The most sackable offence of Ten Hag is spending 300M+ buying players fitting to play possession football (Casemiro doesn't count I reckon) but somehow resort to play "time bomb" transition football to tailor for Bruno and Rashford and say we don't have the players to play possession football.
I recall in 12-13, we fielded these players (2/11 being regular starters that season):
Lindegaard
Refael Wooton Michael Keane Buttner
Nani Anderson Fletcher Giggs
Hernandez Welbeck
against a full team Chelsea in the Carling cup, and we only lost 4-5 on extra time.
Not to mention how we beat almost full-strength arsenal 2-0 with this squad (4/11 being regular starters that season):
VDS
Brown Smalling Vidic Evra
Rafeal Gibson Oshea Fabio
Rooney Hernandez
It is absurd our fans keep rationalizing us getting dominated by Luton and Fulham because of "2-3 missing key players"
Sometimes I ask my self do they support club or manager/player. Or is just case of need to be right about something.
Imho you can't be fan of the club if you watch us every week and come to conclusion, yes this is good stuff.
I agree with you but with this club it’s so badly ran that no manager is getting us to the top of the tree anytime soon. We’re light years off it and loaning players like amrabat and reguilon. Signing players like Evans. It’s all stop gap stuff and amateur for a club of this size and stature. It’s all we can do perhaps financially which is a valid point but that doesn’t make you competitive whatever way you paint it.
For example, the manager still reports to the CEO at this club. It’s in the dark ages still. It really is.
We’re not getting close to city, liverpool, arsenal and don’t get started on the champions league. That’s not only on a manager. It’s on the club, infrastructure, players. Culture. It’s everything all rounded into one outcome which shines on the pitch. Yes the manager is probably the most important factor in it all.. but he’s not a miracle worker.
What’s ETH going to do? It’s as toxic as anything and a manager might come in and have that new manager bounce but eventually the rot sets in and it’s been proven for 11 years nearly that that is the case. It’s rinse and repeat. Hence why I just want to stick with something long enough to actually give it a fair shot.
I am sure the Fergie out gang was thinking the very same things at the time.
No it doesn’t, Rodri plays as high as Casemiro does. The main difference is the way the backline operates which is on ETH
Thats still not the majority and you are including loans. In any case though we need to fix squad issues to play how most of the fans want the team to play. And we need to have more than 1 viable CF which we haven't for about 3 years
All while not taking into account players missing from opposition teams. Luton were missing their top scorer, Adebayo who had been in good form, injured in the warm up and replaced him with a guy that's not started a PL game all season. Fulham also missing two of their best players in Palhinha and Willian.
I wonder the same thing. Surely they can see the football isn't sustainable and having every player fit isn't something that happens on a regular basis so if that is needed, the club isn't going anywhere
I can't decide what is more sad. Clinging on something what happened almost 40y ago or suggesting that this poor tactician can fill Fergies shoes.
ETH is clearly the next SAF. Only a matter of time before he shows it.
Some of you are actually embarrassing and bringing up Fergie to absolve ETH's failings thus far is an insult to the great man.
Forgot about Sabitzer. Both Sabitzer and Reguilon were emergency loans dictated by injuries, only natural that a club under these circumstances would go for a loan rather than buy a player they don’t really need long term. Likewise goalkeeper loans, we only did that to bring up the numbers, did not really have any impact on team as neither played a game while here.
Amrabat is a loan with an affordable option to buy so we could plan with him long term, though thankfully we didn’t just go and spend full amount on him based on ETH’s glowing recommendation because that would have been £25m down the drain. I wish we had loaned Onana, Antony and Mount as well.
Weghorst is the only loan where given resources we would have probably preferred to purchase a player instead.
And of course I don’t for a minute believe he wouldn’t have sanctioned the fees we paid for these players. He wanted full control over transfers and would not have been told we are spending £85m to buy Antony, a player he had recommended and managed before. Sure.
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ANY manager will turn out amazing if they are given a lot of time. There was nothing special about Fergie, he just just an average manager who was given time.
I was a devoted supporter of Ten Hag for an extended period until he lost me eight games into this season. By then, anyone with a decent understanding of football could discern that things were not heading in the right direction with him. This isn't solely about injuries or the absence of quality players; it's more about the team's structure and setup. People keep on saying we do not have a system or pattern of play, that's not accurate. The system exists; it's just a flawed or even detrimental one, but that doesn't negate its existence. Jamie Carragher articulated this flawlessly. The issues have persisted since preseason.
Mason Mount was brought in to complement the system of playing with two attacking midfielders. We consistently adopt a low block and high press because Ten Hag doesn't prioritize ball possession or game control. Control slips away early in games, and there's a failure to address it during the match or in subsequent ones. It's a recurring theme every game. What kind of manager is that? Yet, some people believe he should be given another season? I doubt he is a manager with a discrete football philosophy. his football is determined by the quality of the players he have and we should stay away from those type of managers in out next appointment.
Mason Mount was brought in to complement the system of playing with two attacking midfielders. We consistently adopt a low block and high press because Ten Hag doesn't prioritize ball possession or game control. Control slips away early in games, and there's a failure to address it during the match or in subsequent ones. It's a recurring theme every game. What kind of manager is that? Yet, some people believe he should be given another season? I doubt he is a manager with a discrete football philosophy. his football is determined by the quality of the players he have and we should stay away from those type of managers in out next appointment.
I am not saying he will be anything near him. It’s not the point. It’s more about patience for me. I want to see him get a chance under Ineos. If they decide that EtH is not the man to move us forward, then so be it. But it’s not easy to decide under current conditions imo. That said, with our new people in charge I got confidence in them making the right call.
The ten Hag in or out is also quite stupid. No one can predict the future. It’s only different opinions based on a lot of factors. My factor is mostly based on patience. Every good thing in life takes time and effort. Doesn’t mean I will be right about him. He might be the wrong manager for us and Ineos. But he might be right going forward with Ineos as well.
In their heads ETH is great tactician, but somehow it all fall apart when we miss some players through suspensions or injuries.
At a club when the recruitment department is a shambles in terms of negotiating, buying and selling. The manager suffers and ultimately the team football suffers which is why our managers post Fergie almost NEVER kick on in season 2/3. When they arrive they are usually stuck with unwanted players from previous regimes, ether ill suited to their kind of football, or whom the club can't sell off without loses. Season one they are always given the brief "revitalise current squad, add a few you like, then you can clear out dead wood next year". After season one succeeds, the truth of the situation comes out. Not only do they NOT get all the players on their wish list. The ones they get arive at wrong prices, the few dead wood they get to sell go for laughable prices that can't raise money, whilst others are simply not sold because a) they don't fetch enough and b) the manager doesn't trust he'd be even able to replace them!
So he starts a new season trying to implement his true style handicapped by not enough players who can pull off his style and players he doesn't wan't. If injuries don't befall him, his sheer noise as a manager hides the cracks all year. If they do, the form of his fide high drops of a cliff.
Worst is if he is denied a key component of his style. (Like when Solkksjaer was denied a natur DM after adding CR7. Even though he sold D. James or when after losing Carrick and Blind Mourinho was ONLY allowed Fred and teenage Dalot) the end can come quickly and brutally with shocking results.
As many of you start to cherish the belief that the previous season here of the incumbent manager was "a fluke" rather than his actual level, going by his last 5 years as a boss under a fully functioning footballing department. Consider what Ive said above. You may or may not realize you are placing all the blame for this disaster season where it doesn't.
So he starts a new season trying to implement his true style handicapped by not enough players who can pull off his style and players he doesn't wan't. If injuries don't befall him, his sheer noise as a manager hides the cracks all year. If they do, the form of his fide high drops of a cliff.
Worst is if he is denied a key component of his style. (Like when Solkksjaer was denied a natur DM after adding CR7. Even though he sold D. James or when after losing Carrick and Blind Mourinho was ONLY allowed Fred and teenage Dalot) the end can come quickly and brutally with shocking results.
As many of you start to cherish the belief that the previous season here of the incumbent manager was "a fluke" rather than his actual level, going by his last 5 years as a boss under a fully functioning footballing department. Consider what Ive said above. You may or may not realize you are placing all the blame for this disaster season where it doesn't.
The Carragher analysis further down this page is startling, either the players aren't listening to him or he is clueless and has instructed them to behave this way
Wonder if someone ever ask him on the press about this tactics. I would love to get an answer on what exactly is he doing. I don’t like what I see but surely we can’t just say it’s all his fault. Most likely it’s his and players.
yes lets wait half a decade so that Liverpool and City can collect more trophies while we sit on our arse being patient.
I'm saying he inherited a squad that was dominating possession already, with emerging talents that would go on to move to the best clubs in the world, and a great recruitment team that signed other players that went on to the bigger stage. It was a good job to be taking, let's put it that way. I think ETH actually brought the quick transition style to them, so it's a bit misleading to say he's not trying to play Ajax football, as he is in many ways. This just isn't Eredivisie and his plan has holes in it, which get exploited by better managers in the PL.
I agree with this guy. I said something similar where I thought that we'd either give him some sort of new deal or cut him loose.
It's the equivalent of someone with a gaping knife wound lying on the floor and deciding to give it time and hope it'll get better rather than call an ambulance.
Fergie had done something incredible at Aberdeen and had tangible proof that he could cut it amongst the best. It would have been far easier to argue a case for him.
What's crazy about the Carragher analysis is that many of us could see this early in the season, after Wolves. Hell I even said in the Mason Mount transfer thread in the summer that, if that's how ETH was looking to go, it was suicidal football. That's before a goal is even kicked! And yet, we have a manager that is either oblivious or pig headed and won't see the issues in what he's doing.
Tactically he seems like a bit of an idiot if I'm honest.
Tactically he seems like a bit of an idiot if I'm honest.
Urgh Neville. One of the biggest hypocrites in football, even if I think Ten Hag has done a poor job and wouldn't be upset if he left.
When his mate Ole was regularly getting mauled and serving shit week in week out at the end of his tenure, this guy was no where to be seen. Suddenly, he knows how and what Utd should do.
Glad they highlighted what a feckin' embarrassment Lindelof was on the second goal.
What do we make of this, we're midtable
I assume this is a WUM, if not I really cannot even begin to respond to it, just blows my mind
Just out of interest how do you rate the other "great managers" Pep, Klopp, Wenger, Mourinho, Ancelotti etc...
I really think he's a terrible judge of players.
Which isn't a good trait as a manager,
Which isn't a good trait as a manager,
Jack Grealish: Pep Guardiola says Manchester City midfielder will return when performances improve
Contrast this with Ten Hag's pathetic effusiveness over his stance of "my Rashy will get it right ..someday"
Contrast this with Ten Hag's pathetic effusiveness over his stance of "my Rashy will get it right ..someday"
I don't. They didn't cost any transfer fee and are better than the replacements.
DDG was not good enough anymore, no doubt about that, but FFP limited us and we had bigger needs than keeper, so I would have kept him or even Dean Henderson for 2 years and then buy a rock solid world class keeper who can actually handle the pressure in English Football.
Elanga is better than Antony and would have saved us 100 million plus a huge amount of wages.
Mengi is no worse than Varane and would have saved us a lot.
We play Lindelöf, a failed centre back at left back now, because Ten Hag doesn't know how to build a team and we are low on left back options, every time Shaw gets injured (which happens a lot). Brandon WIlliams is no world beater, far from it, but better than Lindelöf at LB.
Mason Mount is another example of wasted money on a player we had absolutely no need for, because Bruno is playing in his position and Mount is god awful in that number 8 position and doesn't fit in with Bruno and Casemiro.
Ten Hag doesn't know what the heck he is doing in the transfer market and it's dangerous and hurting the club more than his inept tactics and training, because FFP follows you around like a stray dog, you can't simply shake it by changing the manager.
His mad transfer business will still hurt us when he is gone.
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