They were the better side in 09 but they didnt dominate us, they won 2-0 but we missed 3 really good chances to go 1-0 up and overall possesion was fairly wad fairly even with us having more shots (12-11) but them having more shots on target (8-2).
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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They were the better side in 09 but they didnt dominate us, they won 2-0 but we missed 3 really good chances to go 1-0 up and overall possesion was fairly wad fairly even with us having more shots (12-11) but them having more shots on target (8-2).
Barcelona won the treble the season after he left. He inherited a strong squad and they continued to dominate La Primera. Barcelona won the next 5 out of 6 la primeras. Ronaldo helped even things out with Madrid who are/were, lets be fair, the only real challanger in Spain.
And as I said, he inherited the champions league winners at Bayern, what did he do at Bayern worth mentioning ? Didnt win a CL, so didnt really do much of note.
City were CL semi finalists and it took him 6 years to win it. Mancini/Pelligrini could win leagues with city, they dont need world class managers to win leagues. His nearest rival has been Liverpool who have a fraction of the resources he has had at his disposal. So whats he doing at City that he shouldnt be doing ?
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In reality he should have been sacked months ago. That champions league campaign was truly abysmal and warranted any manger getting the boot.
That said, the season is a write off and I can't see any comeback to get into the top 4, so I am happy enough for him to linger on till May, but he needs his marching orders along with a lot of the players.
That said, the season is a write off and I can't see any comeback to get into the top 4, so I am happy enough for him to linger on till May, but he needs his marching orders along with a lot of the players.
This is not true.
I'm not going to address the individual points here. I'll just say that, you want to defend Ten Hag by looking at an extremely detailed amount of 'context.' That is fine, but then you are analyzing Guardiola using the most rudimentary 'context' imaginable: "titles won." That's not very consistent.
Guardiola got plaudits at Barcelona very quickly because of the quality of the football they were playing. It was clearly, visibly different than what had been going on there before. The titles came later.
Real Madrid fired their manager in December 2008 because he (correctly) said that winning at the Camp Nou was impossible. That's how well they were playing.
Oh yeh , it was a couple of seasons after he left. Crazy that they could do that without Pep, almost like the squad was really strong regardless of Pep.
I am not defending ETH by discussing Pep. I am actually just discussing Pep becasue people over inflate his ability. The only reason I am discussing Pep in ETH thread is because people are over inflating his ability in general, none of this defends ETH or excuses him, I am just fed up with the sycophantic love affair many in football have with silver spoon Pep.
No other manager in any sport has had to deal with unrest and inflated egos in locker room, players not clocking in on time, injuries, and organisational restructuring. Almost sounds like the kind of stuff a manager is employed to deal with. Surprised the poor food hygiene rating at OT wasn’t added to the list.
If Ten Hag can/should only be judged when everything is fine - what is the point of Ten Hag?
If Ten Hag can/should only be judged when everything is fine - what is the point of Ten Hag?
Nobody is saying judge ETH when everything is perfect, we are saying its been a uniquely crazy period since he joined. All that happened in 19 months at united. As soon as he walked in the door Ronaldo stirred shite and he was barely here 6 months and the club was up for sale.
So what top managers had a short period like that with all that drama and was able to make it work . .
Go on so, if its as regular as you say you should of loads of examples of top managers making it work great. And they have to be at a club thats been a mess for a decade, constantly making bad signings, overpaying and extending conrtacts of players nobody wants.
That's just not true. Loads of managers have had to deal with bad owners and ownership transfers taking ages. Not too long ago Rooney was in a club that faced administration and liquidation. ETH has never had to deal with that which is far worse.
Why does he get 6 months to survive after destroying our champions league hopes, yet INEOS are sacking staff all around him?
If you lower the bar you will always find worse conditions, I am not sure how thats some sort of rebuttal to be honest. "Well united arent in liquidation, so ETH hasnt got it to bad". . I dont think the poster literally meant , no other manager has ever had it tougher.
I took it like I am saying, which is that theres alot going on at United in a short period of time that ANY manager would struggle to navigate. Its not just one thing, its multiple things, that on their own can unsettle squads/managers, but collectively must be taking its toll.
Doesnt it make sence though to replace those above him first so SJR knows he has people in place who he can trust to choose the right new manager?
Its almost like INEOS might have a plan that doesnt revolve around sacking the manager. Or maybe they will sack him , but they have identified other areas to prioritise. I think its mid Feb when INEOS will officially be part of the club, maybe you will get your pound of flesh then and they will sack him when they actually have their feet officially in the door.
Whats hilarious with you lot is that you cannot comprehend anybody thinking anything outside of "sack the manager now" . Its like you think the only conceivable reason anybody (even INEOS) wouldnt be sacking ETH has to be at best some sort of misguided loyalty or blindspot and we cant see what you see.
I dont know what INEOS are doing. If they sack him, they sack him, but I wouldnt presume to think they have any blind spot on ETH on any level. Hes not their man , if anything they are more likely to sack him regardless of how the season finishes.
Shakhtar Donesk actually beat Barcelona in the Camp Nou in December 2008, Osasuna and Espanyol both won there that season as well
The most important thing to me is what I see on match days. Too much is made of everything else that goes on in between that.
Fergie was being killed by glazernomics and had his best player openly wanting a move to a rival. Point is a lot of clubs go through the storm off the pitch but the best managers keep it together on the pitch. The product that ETH has produced for nearly a year has been absolutely rotten.
He has absolutely no business being here under the new structure and nothing he does in the second half of the season changes my mind to be honest. I think there’s been enough evidence to show he’s out of his depth here and especially in the PL.
Fergie was being killed by glazernomics and had his best player openly wanting a move to a rival. Point is a lot of clubs go through the storm off the pitch but the best managers keep it together on the pitch. The product that ETH has produced for nearly a year has been absolutely rotten.
He has absolutely no business being here under the new structure and nothing he does in the second half of the season changes my mind to be honest. I think there’s been enough evidence to show he’s out of his depth here and especially in the PL.
Because the guys above him would be the ones to determine the direction the club should be moving, which includes the recruitment of any new manager?
It’s not a uniquely crazy period. The things you guys are clutching your pearls about Ten Hag having to deal with is the kind of stuff that managers are brought in to deal/cope with - injuries, dressing room egos/discipline. The notion that indisciplined and/or egotistical players, and injuries is unique to United is hilarious. The only thing that isn’t a common occurrence at the top level is sale/re-organisational changes due to ownership change but even that isn’t that rare with the number of clubs being bought/sold in the past couple decades.
That’s without even mentioning that Ten Hag - has never - at any point of his career - been a “top manager”.
Bayern reached three finals from 2010 to 2013, but won only one CL. They were pretty close to Barca in that time. Pep didn't achieve a single final when he arrived there. This will always be a negative mark for me.
They are mostty below him. We sacked the head of rehab and others.
Lowering the bar
. Cheap coming from you.Because the CL decable isn't enough to sack him.
It's a negative in terms of his stint at Bayern, but pretty normal overall. Managers, even absolutely top ones, just don't win the CL that often.
But we are told he is a genius and one of the best of all time, surely if thats true he would have at the very least have reached a final given they were the holders when he arrived
Yes he's been financially backed at City, but he took over a Barca team that hadn't won anything in 2 years and had just finished third. They made some pretty low key signings and he won the treble if I remember right? OK looking back now some of those players went on to be great players, but can you hold it against him when they became great under him? If or players were playing great then you'd be giving Ten Hag the plaudits.
But regardless of players at his disposal, he always keeps up his end of the bargain, unlike Ten Hag. The coaching, style, tactical gamelan is always clear. He takes players up levels above what they were. As much as I hate to praise the guy, nobody will convince me he's not an all time great. It feels daft to be having this conversation.
Like I said, we had a genius in charge in SAF, managing a very talented team, and Peps Barca gave us a lesson numerous times. Respect where it's due. Pretty sure Fergie would agree with me himself in that he met his match in Guardiola. There's no surprise he tried to get him here straight away when he saw a chance.
With all that being said, Ten Hag doesnt belong in the conversation with these names. Again, it seems ridiculous to even have to say this.
by this point weve seen his strategy of how he wants his team set up, and specifically the midfield (or lack thereof). For me he has to go.
A loss on Thursday will probably be game over..
SAF was the biggest genius ever and still didn't reach finals that often.
Next season we'll be hearing that we need to give him till next summer as we're getting a new club chef and we need to wait and see if a change in menu solves the issue.
Exactly. These guys must think the rest of the coaches are plonkers, including Fergie, the way Pep got the better of them. Mind you they must have thought Fergie was a plonker for trying to convince Pep to come here.
The rest of the world is wondering if/ when Ten Hag will get sacked and @Chumpsbechumps is here trying to convince us Ten Hag is better than Pep You've got to love RedCafe.
You've got to love RedCafe.Might want to look at his teams, and then Pep's teams.
For example, when he lost to him in the 2009 CL final, it was Carrick-Anderson-Giggs against Xavi, Iniesta, and Busquets.
SAF didnt inherit a squad that was European Champions already in a league where the opposition were so far behind he could afford to rest his best players before big European games
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And yet you fail to realise that it was Ten Hag who chose to take these fights with these players in the middle of the season thinking they would just shut up and put up. A manager who knows how to manage keeps a lid on it until the end of the season then fires them into the sun as soon as the window opens. You're right, he's had to deal with loads of shit but he's the person that's gone looking for it as if his job wasn't hard enough as it is. There's a reason no other managers in the PL are throwing players under the bus or talking shit about them first chance they get.
I don't think people defending him truly understand his job here. If Real Madrid spent 400m and had a manager who did not have them playing good football, the manager would be sacked. Do you think Ancelotti or Zidane had it easy at Madrid. Ronaldo was stropping any time there were new contract talks. Bale was proving a nuisance. There were player who weren't getting playing time that were disgruntled. In 2017, they literally changed lineups every week due to the amount of injuries they had. Do you think the likes of Marcelo didn't go to clubs during weeks? Do you think at Barca Neymar wasn't going to parties? I'd argue these situations being so public is a result of how badly we've handled it as a club, including Ten Haag.
Every top club has to deal with egos, disgruntled players and high expectations. That's why top clubs pay managers more money. I don't understand this notion that every thing needs to be perfect. It's never perfect. No team has it perfect all the time. Barca in 2011 had large spells where there were defensive injuries, where Keita played the most games for them.
Even at United. We had many seasons where a large portion of our key players were injured. Where defensive injuries hurt our defence/midfield. Every single club in England has to deal with that. City literally had KDB out for half the season, and no one is going excuse Pep or expect bad performances. And before people bring Klopp into this, he had already won a champions league and Premier League title. He had enough credit at Liverpool to last several lifetimes. Plus they had actually seen his system work. ETH doesn't and his system has sucked. Simple.
Why shouldn't we keep him till the end of the season? Because we can't afford to keep throwing seasons away. What are we telling the players? These are people looking to progress their careers and we are hampering them with a manager who we know isn't putting them in the right spots to shine. Unlike us, they don't have a billion years to be a fan, they have short careers and even shorter peaks. Bruno Fernandes for example is at his very peak now. This is his period to build a legacy for himself with great performances. If Ten Haag doesn't allow players like him, Rashford, Licha, Casemiro and Varane to shine, he's literally taking away part of their prime. In addition, we're trying to develop young players. It would again be best to put them in the best positions to succeed. If Garnacho, Hojlund, Amad and Mainoo aren't supported to shine in a good system, they'll lose the opportunity to prove themselves or even improve. It's always a selfish sentiment when fans call for a failing manager to stay on, because its not their careers on the line. This in particular is why I've never been against player power. It's simple people with interest in the success of the club and their role in it. Usually complaints come from older pundits who can't seem to understand people taking charge of their own lives.
Guardiola's teams have reached the CL final 4 times. This is the joint best 2nd record in the UCL, tied with Klopp, Muñoz, Ferguson, and Lippi. He won it three times, putting him ahead of those managers. The only one with a better record is Carlo Ancelotti, with 5 finals.
So basically he has the 2nd best CL record.
There's only Potter available right now. I'm sure they'll be speaking to managers when the new DOF comes in, on the down low.
Ineos aint officially ratified to do any business yet. The new CEO doesnt start until June. Once they are ratified, its been mentioned it will be around mid Feb, then I think you will see things moving quickly.
4 times in 16 attempts though, thats hardly a good return for a so called genius manager considering the squads and resurces he has had
With Amrabat and Onana returning from AFCON, this will help him in getting us to play amazing football. It is still one of the worst injury/absence crisis in history of football (with Malacia, Martial and Maguire out) and he cannot be assessed until we have everyone back but it’s slightly better.
Our dressing room might not be the easiest to manage but that’s a huge part of his job and he’s failing at man management just as badly as he’s failing at tactics, player development and recruitment. So basically everything.
Btw Pep has underachieved in CL relative to the squads he’s had but he still should not be discussed in any sort of comparisons vs Ten Hag unless it’s meant purely as a joke. Them two don’t belong to the same stratosphere. It’s a heavyweight world champion vs a man that’s been dead for 5 years kind of battle.
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