I still remember when we were first linked with ETH and we were all 
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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The complete hopeless lack of insight from some of you is quite impressive.
It’s been outlined many times why some of us are willing to wait a little longer. I don’t get responses to my reasons for not being ETH out, no matter how many times I copy and paste them here. This is because there are variables to this season that none of us, absolutely none of us, can objectively say how much have played a roll in this seasons disasterous showing.
I can understand why people would want him out and why he is correctly under pressure. But some of these ETH out blue balls brigade need to reel it in with the make believe narratives that anybody who doesn’t want him sacked thinks he’s unimpeachable. That’s just horsesh*t, that simply confirms you don’t know what you are talking about.
It’s been outlined many times why some of us are willing to wait a little longer. I don’t get responses to my reasons for not being ETH out, no matter how many times I copy and paste them here. This is because there are variables to this season that none of us, absolutely none of us, can objectively say how much have played a roll in this seasons disasterous showing.
I can understand why people would want him out and why he is correctly under pressure. But some of these ETH out blue balls brigade need to reel it in with the make believe narratives that anybody who doesn’t want him sacked thinks he’s unimpeachable. That’s just horsesh*t, that simply confirms you don’t know what you are talking about.
100% this. Its as black and white as that for me. I've backed ETH, partly due to the fact that there's no one else available, but the fact that he's made Rashford available for the squad this weekend stinks of weakness.
Moreover it plays into Sanchos hand in that he clearly has favourites. Double standards coming from the manager is unacceptable.
I don't see a public apology needed from Rashford, just a vague PR quite that he's 'accepted responsibility'.
This is the same fraud that gave his own fans the finger after we got dumped out of the CL last season and had the audacity to brush it off with a lie. The same fraud that lay rolling around Wembley with 5 wins to go in the FA Cup final and limped/moped the rest without giving any effort.
He's made a mockery of the club and if Ten Hag rewards him with a place in the squad without a public apology, then Sancho is right, Ten Hag is weak as Phil Jones skeleton and they all need to get binned off quick smart.
ETH is not without fault, but he’s had to deal with shit that no other manager in any sport has had to deal with before. Let him see out this season and assess our options in late May.
Ah, yes. One of the great mysteries of football. Pep Guardiola's level.
Bollocks. Pep is one of the best ever, even I can bring myself to admit that. You don't dominate great Manchester United teams coached by Sir Alex if you aren't very good at what you do. Not to mention the battles he had with Jose & another great Real Madrid team, where they often had their number.
https://twitter.com/TheDevilsDNA/status/1751973667880550864?s=20
This is ETH’s attacking system in a nutshell. It’s almost completely dependent on the wingers and full backs to create chances. It’s never going to work because we just don’t have the personnel. Rashford keeps running into defenders 8 out of 10 times , Garnacho has poor decision making, Antony can’t do anything and Dalot and Awb have poor end product. These are the players we are relying on to create chances most of the time
This is ETH’s attacking system in a nutshell. It’s almost completely dependent on the wingers and full backs to create chances. It’s never going to work because we just don’t have the personnel. Rashford keeps running into defenders 8 out of 10 times , Garnacho has poor decision making, Antony can’t do anything and Dalot and Awb have poor end product. These are the players we are relying on to create chances most of the time
Pep is a great manager when he has great squads at his disposal. We do not know what sort of manager he is like when he has to work within financial parameters or manage player issues that every other manager in the world has had to work within at some stage in their careers. Pep teams win leagues and go far in the champions league before and after him. He hasnt grown a club to league winning status, he has won exactly what he should be winning if you objectively look at it. One could argue not winning a CL at Bayern and city (for so long) was relative blip on his career, but nobody wants to be objective of golden boy pep.
Ferguson and even Klopp, for example, are proven at multiple levels.
Pep has had unreal success and is a top coach, no doubt. But hes not been managing Aberdeen or Dortmund or even United/Liverpool at the levels they were at when Ferguson/Klopp took over. So its fair to say he is only proven when he has pretty much the finished articles at his disposal and is able to add world class level talent to these squads. He makes it work, but hes given all the resources he wants to make it work and any issues he encounters are quickly managed at the clubs hes managed. No other manager in the world has been afforded the luxuries Pep has had his entire career.
Pep isnt one of the best ever, if he was it wouldnt have taken him 7 years and £1.5bn+ of player signings to win a single Champions League with City especially when City reached the Srmi Final of that competition the season before he arrived.
When did he dominate a great Man Utd side coached by Sir Alex?
Who?
When he inherited arguably the greatest club side with arguable the greatest player of all time...
Only when Madrid could get Ronaldo (the worlds other greatest player) , could they fairly challange Barca.
Barcelona still won leagues without him, thnk it was 5 la primeras out of 6 after Pep Left. Even Luis Enrique nearly matched Peps record, but he did have 1 less year as manager.
At Bayern, 2013 to 2016 Pep won 7 major trophies, flick won the same in 2 seasons. Every Bayern manager wins leagues, Pep couldnt win a CL even though he inherited the champions league winnners.
But sure Pep is the best yadda yadda yadda
Amazing how Pep made that rag tag bunch of over the hill Barcelona team work .
Maybe United having to sell their best player (be like Pep having to do without Messi as he hits his prime) to Real Madrid and replacing him with Anthony Valencia possibly played a role aswell.. . . Its almost like Pep had a stronger squad, stronger players and a stronger team and there wasnt much United or Ferguson could do to manage the difference in quality.
It was a heck of a side, coached by a heck of a coach. Both sides needed each other.
We've seen teams of superstars before. Not many, if any, reached that level. And many just collapsed.
Márquez (the injury prone version of him), Keita, Sylvinho, Hleb, Bojan, Gudjohnsen, Caceres, Gabriel Milito, Jeffren, Chyhrynskyi, Pinto, Adriano... Some of the "great squad players" he had at Barcelona.
But that Barca side continued winning leagues and did the treble under Luis Enrique. I am not saying Pep is not one of the best coaches, he most certainly is one of the best, but hes only managed clubs and teams who are world class with or without him.
With the best attack ever assembled
So a good manager can win alot of trophies if they have a stront squad , yes ? Thats my point. Pep has only ever had extremely strong squads in his managerial career. He has had success with them, but really , what should his teams not be winning ? When you look at the quality of sides hes managed, what has he won that really they shouldnt be winning ? Its a hard one to answer, but its a fair question, one that nobody bothers exploring, they literally look at his medals with absolutely not other context and equate that to him just being great.
He is a great manager, but not the greatest for me. I think that there are serious questions over how much the clubs hes managed, the squads hes inherited and the resources hes had to build teams and to ask what is a fair analysis of what he has done.
I think if Pep had taken over United at any stage, he would of suffered the same fate as Jose. Its easy to forget Joses record was impeccable at clubs before he managed United. But one could reasonably assume Pep didnt see United as a "winning project" and hes been very careful about managing clubs primed for success.
That's the frustrating thing for me, I believe our midfielders had the lowest attempted passes in the team except for Hojlund and the GK. It's like the midfield is just this big void we're keen to avoid. People were saying Mainoo had a great game against Newport but i honestly didn't think he got on the ball that much at all and neither did Casemiro it seemed. It's just the way we play and it's not good.
I can’t believe people are actually trying to have a Pep v ETH discussion. 
Historical, unprecedented, Guiness book of records injury crisis (there were periods of time when we had as much as 57 players out), Sancho/Rashford acting like children (which never ever happened with any other footballers because they are all grown ups), plus the ownership change which made all players uncomfortable and restless.
I find this kind of thing funny when we have a whole thread on conceding cut backs and why they're effective.
Don't forget the existential crisis the club was thrown into due to AFCON being played during the season and United having to have the unprecedented amount of three players, including the best keeper to ever grace the PL with his presence.
That's actually a great thread, have thought of it but put well into clear points.
It might be better with better personnel like say Mbappe on the left and Salah on the left but even they would have a ceiling. There has to be lot more than give the wide players the ball and see what they do. That's what we've done for 10 yrs post Fergie and ETH was supposed to do so much better with our general play. He has improved our pressing but that's about it.
What would that be exactly? Managing people who are difficult to manage? You know it could just be he's actually quite shit at it?
Cut backs are effective but that's against us cuz we leave a huge hole in central midfield. Other teams don't, so won't be effective for us if that's all we do.
Who's fault is that then? Pretty sure Ten Hag picks the team and I'm pretty sure he played Shaw 5 times in the space of 14 days which saw him get injured recently, it's almost like he picks the same players for every game no matter who we're playing...
Well he'd have been totally fecked then if he had to deal with the dickheadery of Pogba, Bailly, Lingard, Lukaku, Martial, Rashford, Sancho, Sweinstiger, Rojo, Sanchez and Di Maria like Mourinho and Ole did.
Cut backs in general are the most effective for of chance creation. There are tonnes of articles banging on about it. One example:
https://theathletic.com/4267538/2023/03/02/arsenal-premier-league-arteta-cutbacks/
He said a GREAT side coached by Sir Alex and our 2011 Champions League Final side wasnt a GREAT side in my opinion, key players from tbe 08 and 09 squad had moved on and the side was being carried alot by ageing players like Ferdinand, Scholes, Giggs, and VDS plus the starting line up included players like Fabio, Valencia, and Chicharito who werent really that great.
Nah, the story that Rashford had been out had emerged by that point, he couldn’t just pretend it hadn’t happened. He didn’t drop him in it.
"Exactly"?
Ronaldo comes to mind, the player who refused to take the pitch when called on by his manager (v Spurs, in case you're not aware of this) and then went to Piers Morgan to trash the club, but let's stipulate for the sake of fantasy that every PL manager has a whingey Ronaldo to deal with. Let's not forget Jadon Sancho, who has behaved like a child yet, incredibly, performed on the pitch like a 37 year old. The Greenwood matter in no way can be blamed on ten Hag. And now Marcus Rashford, who flies to Belfast the night before a training session so that he get hammered with his mates.
It's not as though the British media have refused to report on any of this so it's a bit staggering that you really had to be informed of "exactly" what is already widely known.
Yes, it could well be that ten Hag is a shit manager, but no one can deny that he's had to deal with shit that no other PL ever has before him and I can't think of another manager in any other sport has ever had to deal with. Not even Billy Martin of the New York Yankees in the 1970s had to deal with anything like the freak show of spoiled brats that ten Hag has had to deal with. And if you actually read my previous posts on ten Hag you'll see that I'm only suggesting that we let him see the season out and then assess our options. There is no manager waiting in the wings we could bring on right now to right ship. There is no realistic hope now of CL qualification and all that's left is either qualifying for the Europa or Conference League and of course the FA Cup.
Anyone who can make Xavi hit a pass has to be a wizard, clearly. In all seriousness he built a formidable team, coached them into an extreme version of the Barca style and did an exceptional job changing the culture at the club. He was the architect behind the modern Barcelona IMO.
Fair enough I guess. I'd kill for that side today, but I see your point. We can go with 09 then, we were spanked then too. Fecking Barca...
Dont forget the injury issues , the dysfunction of the club and uncertainty over its future ownership.
In isolation , people can say "well that manager has injuriers" or "that manager has had to deal with player issues", but nobody can quote a manager at a top club who is having to navigate ALL these issues at the same time in the space of 12 months. They all add up and all compound the issues at United.
I mean the Rashford thing and some fans are somehow turning this around on ETH. WTF is wrong with people ? Do they actually see whats been happeneing at United ? Ronaldo, Sancho, Greenwood, Rashford, all these players made a damaged or made a mess of their careers by what they did and how they reacted to events they didnt like. And some people support the players when their actions impact the club negatively. Its some weird "I support the player" sh*te with this idea that everything must come back to the manager.
There is consistent drama issues at United, people still clinging to this idea that its a managers job to fix all ills at United is ridiculous. Pep and Klopp have to only focus on training their teams, they dont have to navigate these dramas because the clubs deal with dramas quickly (if there are any). United deals with dramas by letting things get terrible, sacking the coach and extending contracts of players to protect their book value. There is our problem regardless of manager.
Maybe, but take a Klopp or a Ferguson out of United/Liverpool and you will see dramatic drops in levels.
Pep leaving Barca or Bayern didnt affect them much. If he leaves city, do you think that squad wont win or challange for league next season ? Of course it will.
Pep is a quality manager, I just feel that part of his success is like winning with Celtic or PSG. The question is what is a fair way to judge it, I cant answer that, but its a fair question.
Hold up - wait, you people are serious with this “he’s had to deal with shit that no other manager in any sport has had to deal with before.” Stuff? fecking hell
At least I can tell when @Sarni is cooking, but the last two guys seem serious
At least I can tell when @Sarni is cooking, but the last two guys seem serious
And with all that, sitting comfortably in UPPER HALF of the table. Sign him up on a new contract before Barca comes calling.
Hold up - wait, you people are serious with this “he’s had to deal with shit that no other manager in any sport has had to deal with before.” Stuff? fecking hell
At least I can tell when @Sarni is cooking, but the last two guys seem serious
Seriously, most managers have to deal with losing their better players. ETH has had to deal with two unprofessional shitbags = worst crisis in history of all sports. Totally understandable that we fall apart completely.
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City were never world class until Guardiola.
Barcelona, not really.
In Guardiola's four-year stint at Barcelona, they were undoubtedly the best club in Europe, reaching CL semifinals all four seasons. They played the finals two of those seasons, and won comfortably. Since Guardiola's departure in 2012, Barcelona have only reached the CL semifinals three times (2013, 2015, 2019). One of those times, they lost by a cumulative 7-0 scoreline.
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Hold up - wait, you people are serious with this “he’s had to deal with shit that no other manager in any sport has had to deal with before.” Stuff? fecking hell
At least I can tell when @Sarni is cooking, but the last two guys seem serious
What top manager at a top club had to deal with all these issues in a 12 month period at a club that has high pressure, high expectations and whose fans will have zero patience "becasue 400 million spent"?
- 4 starting players causing serious drama, superstar undermining the manager with an interview, one player sex scandal who was due to be starting striker, one who gets a season off and still wont train, another who plays well one season and then starts missing training and going on benders . Didnt include Anthony drama cause why bother..
- Long term Injuries to players who played in 25+ games last season , Malacia, Martinez, Casemiro , Erikson , Varane, Shaw and then injuries to the squad players that replace them, maguire, lindleoff, even loanee players getting injured
- No fit striker at the club for long periods, relying on an unproven 21 year old to carry ALL the weight of expectation up front (see Greenwood who would of been part of plans until it was too late to organise a replacement when the club decided to loan him out)
- Club dysfunction in general, but moreso with ownership question marks that at the very least place question marks over the manager regardless of how he does. New owners can replace managers even if they are doing ok, its hard enough for managers to manage in tough times without an added layer to their security
- United playing a similar amount of games as Liverpool the seaosn they won the treble, Liverpools form collapsed the next season. We had a world cup squeezed in during that season and yet nobody thinks its playing any role in player fatigue and maybe even injuries
All these things are going on, not just one of them. How do we factor these in ? How do we fairly asess the season while also looking at all this sh*t happen in such a short period of time ? I cant say it makes it ok for us to be having such a poor season, but its definitely fair to say its played a role. Spurs/Newcastle have injury issues, thats it. Thats all they need concern themselves with.
Since the club has players who "throw the managers under the bus" all the time, you cant really put the blame at ETH door. You can say he might of managed things differently, but for so much drama to consistently go on at United, there is a pattern thats nothing to do with managers. People are just blaming managers and ignoring the elephant in the room.
Like others have said, ETH may not be the right man to lead United and may indeed be out of his depth. But the clubs been a mess for a long time, sometimes things need to get worse when you are trying to extract poison or change a culture. He maybe replaced regardless of what happens, but some of you post like this has been a season where we have just played crap and its as simple as that, which is less then accurate.
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