Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Yakuza_devils]

What other choice do we have other than trust ETH know what he is doing with his recruitment strategy?

It seems our so called football structure is not ready yet.

TBF, if you give me a choice to choose between trusting ETH or our football structure (failed for the last 10 years). ETH all day.

 

[#07]

I think what we have to remember at Ajax Ten Hag was working with a structure in place that works effectively, identifying players that fit the ethos and style of the club.

He’s now come to a club that’s infrastructure has frankly been a joke for a decade, possibly has had the worst decade of squad building by any club ever considering the amount of money spend, a director of football who so far we have no idea if he knowes what he is doing or not.

The question of Ten Hag coming here was never is he a good coach/manger it’s can he manage without that structure around him. It’s seems at the moment his solution is ignoring Uniteds scouting network and just demanding players he is familiar with.

I agree with you, especially the bolded part. However, that can't continue. He's a tracksuit manager, which means he spends a lot of time on the training pitch. He will not have the time to scout players during the season.

At some stage our Director of Football and recruitment department will need to step up and show something. At some stage Ten Hag is going to have to trust them. On day one, Ten Hag should have given the recruitment side clear specifications on how he intended to play and what qualities he needed in players 1-11 to play that way. Then the recruitment team should have been put to work sourcing those types of players.

Its not rocket science. Any analyst can tell the difference between an #8 like De Jong and a #8 like Danny Drinkwater. We should have staff who can prepare appropriate lists if they're told what they're looking for. All I am seeing is Ten Hag's phone book at play. It could work out this summer but its not encouraging for the future.

 

[Smores]

It's not really about recommendations per se for me. A scouting department should have a lot of data collected and properly analysed ready to put in front of the eyes of upper management, it would appear Ten Hag doesn't trust it or we set our targets in the first week so he didn't have time.

Just more signs our club has been badly run but we knew that already.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I agree with you, especially the bolded part. However, that can't continue. He's a tracksuit manager, which means he spends a lot of time on the training pitch. He will not have the time to scout players during the season.

At some stage our Director of Football and recruitment department will need to step up and show something. At some stage Ten Hag is going to have to trust them. On day one, Ten Hag should have given the recruitment side clear specifications on how he intended to play and what qualities he needed in players 1-11 to play that way. Then the recruitment team should have been put to work sourcing those types of players.

Its not rocket science. Any analyst can tell the difference between an #8 like De Jong and a #8 like Danny Drinkwater. We should have staff who can prepare appropriate lists if they're told what they're looking for. All I am seeing is Ten Hag's phone book at play. It could work out this summer but its not encouraging for the future.

Completely agree.

This is something that should have been discussed and dealt with months ago. We should not be going into a transfer market with only what players the new manager knows. We hired a director of football to avoid this very situation.

Murtough has been in the job for over a year, this is his 3rd transfer window in the job and has been at the club since 2013, he was at least a key figure in the appointment of Ten Hag (and Rangnick for that matter). Ten Hag and Murtough should be on the same page as to the kind of players the club needs because surely if Murtough is doing his job properly he hired Ten Hag because he shares his vision and philosophy in terms of playing style ethos and recruitment, and not because he was the most popular appointment. So the recruitment staff/ scouts should have been working on identifying targets long before Ten Hag was signed up and those targets should be in line with Ten Hags vision because his vision should be in line with Murtough's.

If any of these things arn't true then we have problems. What seems to be happening Ten Hag has come in with his list of targets and given it to Murtough. That doesn't bode well in terms of collaboration or in terms or what trust there is in the clubs current scouts, it also massively limits the pool of players we are looking at, as instead of using a large scouting network that in theory at least should have been scouring the globe with clear player profiles that match those that would fit with both Ten Hags and in theory Murtoughs vision for the club, we are instead limited to what players Ten Hag knows well.

 

[#07]

Completely agree.

This is something that should have been discussed and dealt with months ago. We should not be going into a transfer market with only what players the new manager knows. We hired a director of football to avoid this very situation.

Murtough has been in the job for over a year, this is his 3rd transfer window in the job and has been at the club since 2013, he was at least a key figure in the appointment of Ten Hag (and Rangnick for that matter). Ten Hag and Murtough should be on the same page as to the kind of players the club needs because surely if Murtough is doing his job properly he hired Ten Hag because he shares his vision and philosophy in terms of playing style ethos and recruitment, and not because he was the most popular appointment. So the recruitment staff/ scouts should have been working on identifying targets long before Ten Hag was signed up and those targets should be in line with Ten Hags vision because his vision should be in line with Murtaugh's.

If any of these things arn't true then we have problems. What seems to be happening Ten Hag has come in with his list of targets and given it to Murtough. That doesn't bode well in terms of collaboration or in terms or what trust there is in the clubs current scouts, it also massively limits the pool of players we are looking at, as instead of using a large scouting network that in theory at least should have been scouring the globe with clear player profiles that match those that would fit with both Ten Hags and in theory Murtoughs vision for the club, we are instead limited to what players Ten Hag knows well.

Completely agree barring one point: I actually think its worse than what you're describing.

Ten Hag has come in and said, for example, I need a midfield player who can move the ball from defence and attack quickly. The club has then replied: 'Well, we we like Declan Rice, we like Jude Bellingham but they'd cost £100m each.' Ten Hag has then responded: 'Well who else have you scouted for me?' The club has responded: 'Erm...do you know anyone?' Now we've ended up on an Ajax alumni shopping spree...

It makes you wonder how much preparatory work went into Ten Hag's appointment. How much buy in the club actually has in his vision. Whether they'll sack it off after 10 months if its not going well and just get Pochettino if he's still unemployed.

Really, as you say, this appointment should've been step one towards a new vision for the club. A vision where, if it all goes wrong we don't just go back to square one, but we get another coach similar to Ten Hag who can execute our vision for what type of football we want. In the same way Barcelona or Ajax would never go out and hire a defensive manager who plays 5 at the back.

I just don't trust that the club has the thinking upstairs to do the things you, rightly, suggest should've already happened. I think they will get all these players in and, if it goes wrong, they'll just go for the biggest available name 'to get something' out of the squad.

Makes me worry for Ten Hag because I think he'll be the convenient fall guy if it goes to pot: These are all his players, this is all his fault. We gave him what he wanted and he failed. You can see it now.

The guy's a head coach and they're trying to make him into a manager. They may as well have hired Marc Overmars as a consultant when they fired Rangnick...

 

[TheReligion]

Completely agree.

This is something that should have been discussed and dealt with months ago. We should not be going into a transfer market with only what players the new manager knows. We hired a director of football to avoid this very situation.

Murtough has been in the job for over a year, this is his 3rd transfer window in the job and has been at the club since 2013, he was at least a key figure in the appointment of Ten Hag (and Rangnick for that matter). Ten Hag and Murtough should be on the same page as to the kind of players the club needs because surely if Murtough is doing his job properly he hired Ten Hag because he shares his vision and philosophy in terms of playing style ethos and recruitment, and not because he was the most popular appointment. So the recruitment staff/ scouts should have been working on identifying targets long before Ten Hag was signed up and those targets should be in line with Ten Hags vision because his vision should be in line with Murtaugh's.

If any of these things arn't true then we have problems. What seems to be happening Ten Hag has come in with his list of targets and given it to Murtough. That doesn't bode well in terms of collaboration or in terms or what trust there is in the clubs current scouts, it also massively limits the pool of players we are looking at, as instead of using a large scouting network that in theory at least should have been scouring the globe with clear player profiles that match those that would fit with both Ten Hags and in theory Murtoughs vision for the club, we are instead limited to what players Ten Hag knows well.

How do you know the club aren’t doing exactly what you are suggesting they are not?

United have been stripping out the backroom staff and are still appointing replacements. Murtough and Fletcher will know full well the vision, as will Ten Hag, so the players brought in this window will fit it.

Just not sure why we can’t wait to judge this window much later on rather than pick at it earlier. Look at Chelsea by way of comparison and see how they are struggling (worse than us).

 

[devips]

I don't get so much crying over nothing. The players we are trying to get are ten Hag;s selection. So what ?

de Jong, Ericsen, Martinez, and Antony (if true) are players any top club would have scouted, and would have been happy to get. So why the crying, I ask again.

Malacia, and Brobbey (if true) are surprise inclusions, but at their likely cost, and the potential they represent, what's the big deal?

Do we moan for moanings sake, then?

 

[R'hllor]

Seems what ETH and fans want aint aligned, then again what we really need and what majority of fans want in this transfer window aint aligned either.

 

[pascell]

He was always my first choice to replace Ole but he's up against in next season that squad that's been announced for the tour is painfully average and light in quality.

 

[TheReligion]

I don't get so much crying over nothing. The players we are trying to get are ten Hag;s selection. So what ?

de Jong, Ericsen, Martinez, and Antony (if true) are players any top club would have scouted, and would have been happy to get. So why the crying, I ask again.

Malacia, and Brobbey (if true) are surprise inclusions, but at their likely cost, and the potential they represent, what's the big deal?

Do we moan for moanings sake, then?

Good post

 

[Paxi]

Ah the tactical genius who did this.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

How do you know the club aren’t doing exactly what you are suggesting they are not?

United have been stripping out the backroom staff and are still appointing replacements. Murtough and Fletcher will know full well the vision, as will Ten Hag, so the players brought in this window will fit it.

Just not sure why we can’t wait to judge this window much later on rather than pick at it earlier. Look at Chelsea by way of comparison and see how they are struggling (worse than us).

Murtough (and Fletcher if you want to include him) should have had a stratergy in place before the appointment of Ten Hag.They should have at least been working on a strategy for this summer since Ole was sacked/left. That strategy should be have been outlined with Ten Hag at the first interview, maybe he would slightly amend it slightly but not make significant changes going into the window. If they didn't agree on that strategy, then either Ten Hag shouldn't of been appointed or Murtough should not be in the job. But currently considering every player we seem to be targeting seems to a dutch player or a player linked with Ten Hag/ Ajax this is clearly a Ten Hag strategy not a Murtough strategy.

Everyone knows how big a task it was going to before a new manager considering the issues the club had. Part of that is how important time on the training ground before the season starts will be. With a new manager, big change in philosophy, and tactics. Getting players in early was of huge importance and a massive part of how successful this window is. Yes if we get players in august it will be better than nothing, but this summer it wasn't just who we bring in it was also when. We needed the right players early in the window for it to be a complete success, which this hasn't been.

Chelsea has new owners, a few months back there was doubts even how they would carry on, now there are massive changes going on in their clubs structure a change to the ethos everything, so of course, there are going to be a delay in transfers. They also have the same manager and a group of players who have been working with him for a few years now so time on the training ground isn't as precious. I would also say they seem to be closer to their big signings than we are. Despite changing owners.

 

[TheReligion]

Murtough (and Fletcher if you want to include him) should have had a stratergy in place before the appointment of Ten Hag.They should have at least been working on a strategy for this summer since Ole was sacked/left. That strategy should be have been outlined with Ten Hag at the first interview, maybe he would slightly amend it slightly but not make significant changes going into the window. If they didn't agree on that strategy, then either Ten Hag shouldn't of been appointed or Murtough should not be in the job. But currently considering every player we seem to be targeting seems to a dutch player or a player linked with Ten Hag/ Ajax this is clearly a Ten Hag strategy not a Murtough strategy.

Everyone knows how big a task it was going to before a new manager considering the issues the club had. Part of that is how important time on the training ground before the season starts will be. With a new manager, big change in philosophy, and tactics. Getting players in early was of huge importance and a massive part of how successful this window is. Yes if we get players in august it will be better than nothing, but this summer it wasn't just who we bring in it was also when. We needed the right players early in the window for it to be a complete success, which this hasn't been.

Chelsea has new owners, a few months back there was doubts even how they would carry on, now there are massive changes going on in their clubs structure a change to the ethos everything, so of course, there are going to be a delay in transfers. They also have the same manager and a group of players who have been working with him for a few years now so time on the training ground isn't as precious. I would also say they seem to be closer to their big signings than we are. Despite changing owners.

Chelsea are yet to sign a single player and have lost their best two CBs on frees along with their £100m CF. That’s after releasing lots of talented young players who could have filled those very gap Imagine if United were in the same boat? Fans are melting down already and the new coach has only been a the club a week or two.

It’s embarrassing really.

This summer is exactly about spending the budget wisely and getting the right players in with the right character. It’s not just about getting bodies in.

 

[Revaulx]

That didn’t happen at all. The season we ended up second we finished in awful form, with huge doubts about whether we were actually progressing under Ole. Smashed by Liverpool, beaten by Leicester, drew with Fulham and then that horrible EL final where Ole seemed completely out of his depth, not making any subs or tactical changes until it was far too late.

This. I felt a lot more optimistic at the end of the previous, third-place season. Bruno, Martial (!), Rashford, the new defenders all looked great. The following season the attack was worse despite the emergence of Greenwood and a few more goals, the defence was a lot worse, the big sides had started to find us out* and it was getting obvious that Ole’s game management wasn’t improving. Neither was our fitness.

* I really hate that expression but think it’s the apt one here.

 

[cabbs1989]

Chelsea are yet to sign a single player and have lost their best two CBs on frees along with their £100m CF. That’s after releasing lots of talented young players who could have filled those very gap Imagine if United were in the same boat? Fans are melting down already and the new coach has only been a the club a week or two.

It’s embarrassing really.

This summer is exactly about spending the budget wisely and getting the right players in with the right character. It’s not just about getting bodies in.

It’s ridiculous mate I’ve been on this forum since 2007 I don’t post much I prefer to read etc.

But in the last few years this place has become awful in terms of the quality of posters, I understand we have been awful for nearly ten years but any kind of positivity is immediately unwarranted with negativity, ten hag is the first coach we’ve hired with an upside, I’m confident he will be good but you never know, the transfer window has not been ideal but eriksen malacia are in, Martinez looks likely, the se jong thing is weird & a very unusual situation I believe we will sign him , this transfer window is the start of the rebuild & people shouldn’t expect us to get all the players or positions we need in one window. I’m it seems one of the few who is positive about the future, city pool miles ahead, chelsea new structure need 2 cbs Sterling is good, but they are a work in progress, arsenal I’m not worried about, spurs remains to be seen, people talk about us like we are Burnley honestly man

 

[Sir Erik ten Hag]

Those managers outside of Fergie bought well known players, at least 90% of them, don't tell me signings like Salah was an "unknown gem". Everyone in FIFA, PES and FM community knew he had the raw skills. So that's 30% of earth population that knew Salah could be a good signing. It's just that because he was at Roma at the time, Pool didn't get rinsed. So how is it that you're complaining about us signing highly coveted players when Klopp and Pep did just that. It's not the origin but the quality of the players themselves. They can be playing in Japan for all I care. Good talents are good talents.

We seemingly are getting rinsed if we have to deal with Ajax. And I don't think Roma is that much smaller than Ajax as a club.

 

[TheReligion]

It’s ridiculous mate I’ve been on this forum since 2007 I don’t post much I prefer to read etc.

But in the last few years this place has become awful in terms of the quality of posters, I understand we have been awful for nearly ten years but any kind of positivity is immediately unwarranted with negativity, ten hag is the first coach we’ve hired with an upside, I’m confident he will be good but you never know, the transfer window has not been ideal but eriksen malacia are in, Martinez looks likely, the se jong thing is weird & a very unusual situation I believe we will sign him , this transfer window is the start of the rebuild & people shouldn’t expect us to get all the players or positions we need in one window. I’m it seems one of the few who is positive about the future, city pool miles ahead, chelsea new structure need 2 cbs Sterling is good, but they are a work in progress, arsenal I’m not worried about, spurs remains to be seen, people talk about us like we are Burnley honestly man

I only assume the age of poster has lowered and in amongst it we have a lot more trolls who join up here to poke fun at the club due to how much success and pain we gave them under Sir Alex. I do agree though, and I’ve been here a while like you, that the quality does feel on the down. It’s a shame.

If these negative folk can’t at least try and show some excitement and optimism under Ten Hag (especially with the full changes behind the scenes and clear out of the old culture of player like Pogba and Lingard etc) then really what’s the point in following the club?

 

[cyberman]

At this stage I’d kind of like to see us signing nobody and just have him work with what we have and the youngsters. Just embrace what we are at the minute because it isn’t getting any better with failed signings.

 

[Revaulx]

Honestly are these posts bots?

They always follow the same pattern and always end with "concerning".


Or are people reading it from some fanpage and just copying the wording.

It's very concerning

It’ll be concerning if we’re still doing it in twelve months’ time. Right now I don’t think there’s an alternative.

Most of our scouting seemed to be done by agents telling Woodward who he should sign. Getting competent people in will take time.

 

[DomesticTadpole]

It’ll be concerning if we’re still doing it in twelve months’ time. Right now I don’t think there’s an alternative.

Most of our scouting seemed to be done by agents telling Woodward who he should sign. Getting competent people in will take time.

We were an agents dream. A highlight video and Woodward was eating out of their hands.

 

[Revaulx]

That's if he gets next season. I'd say his leash should be quite short this season, because if his signings don't work out it's completely his own fault.

Really?

If the club presented him with a list of ETH-ready targets and he ignored it, that would certainly be his own fault. Did they though?

 

[Rhyme Animal]

I think the reality is that the pull of the current Utd and of ETH is relatively low and thus ten Hag is having to rely on calling on players he’s already formed a bond with.

Utd is an awfully run club with no CL competing in a League with City, Liverpool, Chelsea and now Conte’s Spurs, and the best players will rightly be avoiding Utd until it’s seen that they have turned a corner.

The problem is that Utd’s owners have no scouting in place and only want to sign ‘statement’ players for their ‘brand’.

This Summer for Utd (thus far) is starting to look a bit like Moyes’ Summer window.

The club really needs to sort itself out and back ETH properly to give him a fair shot.

 

[Revaulx]

Nice to see some of you have already started sunbathing in the glow from his arse crack.

So who do you think we should have appointed? Jose? Poch? Conte? Kept Ole?

 

[Tavern in the town]

The problem is that Utd’s owners have no scouting in place and only want to sign ‘statement’ players for their ‘brand’.

Just not true at all and is a line that’s been parroted on this forum so often people have convinced themselves it’s true.

 

[TheReligion]

I think the reality is that the pull of the current Utd and of ETH is relatively low and thus ten Hag is having to rely on calling on players he’s already formed a bond with.

Utd is an awfully run club with no CL competing in a League with City, Liverpool, Chelsea and now Conte’s Spurs, and the best players will rightly be avoiding Utd until it’s seen that they have turned a corner.

The problem is that Utd’s owners have no scouting in place and only want to sign ‘statement’ players for their ‘brand’.

This Summer for Utd (thus far) is starting to look a bit like Moyes’ Summer window.

The club really needs to sort itself out and back ETH properly to give him a fair shot.

I mean they are backing him aren’t they?

Malacia and Eriksen, bids for Martinez and Antony. Still persistent with De Jong despite the difficulties in dealing with Barca?

One thing the club is doing is backing him! He’s getting everything hes asked for so far. McClaren and Van der Gaag. Literally everything.

See how the window closes

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Just not true at all and is a line that’s been parroted on this forum so often people have convinced themselves it’s true.

Utd’s owners have shown time and again that they have zero vision in the transfer department and a very clear propensity to try and sign ‘name’ players.

The last 10 years have made this very clear.

Of course not ‘every’ player they go for is a statement signing - it’s a figure of speech. But the crux of the point is undeniable.

 

[Tavern in the town]

Utd’s owners have shown time and again that they have zero vision in the transfer department and a very clear propensity to try and sign ‘name’ players.

The last 10 years have made this very clear.

Of course not ‘every’ player they go for is a statement signing - it’s a figure of speech. But the crux of the point is undeniable.

No, it’s very deniable. We’ve spent huge money on dozens of players who aren’t very marketable. Our club captain cost 80 million and looks like a cretin. Sure, we do make “flashy” signings every now and then. They probably account for about 20% of the players we bring in. If that.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

No, it’s very deniable. We’ve spent huge money on dozens of players who aren’t very marketable. Our club captain cost 80 million and looks like a cretin. Sure, we do make “flashy” signings every now and then. They probably account for about 20% of the players we bring in. If that.

Maguire IS a name signing! An 80m signing that was the biggest name British CB available!

The reason the marketability of these players is low is due to their performances at Utd.

In the last 10 years you’ve signed OR chased…

Bale - Moyes
Fabregas - Moyes
Mata - Moyes
Schweinsteiger - LvG
Falcao - LvG
Di Maria - LvG
Pogba - JM
Ibrahimovic - JM
Lukaku - JM
Maguire - Ole
Varane - Ole
Ronaldo - Ole
Sancho - Ole

These are just off the top of my head, I’m sure there’s more that fit the bill as well.

It’s just an endless line of big, obvious transfers that don’t fit any system other than being high profile.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Chelsea are yet to sign a single player and have lost their best two CBs on frees along with their £100m CF. That’s after releasing lots of talented young players who could have filled those very gap Imagine if United were in the same boat? Fans are melting down already and the new coach has only been a the club a week or two.

It’s embarrassing really.

This summer is exactly about spending the budget wisely and getting the right players in with the right character. It’s not just about getting bodies in.

Firstly your comparing us to a clubs who over the past few months was just forced to be sold because there owner was had connections to a government that is being sanctioned due to it invading another country. If that’s your bar for success then that’s worrying. Would I say Chelsea are a well run club? No they have been ran at a loss for two decades and have only stayed afloat because there owners had loaned them more and more money. Been better then them in terms of club management is not a bar for success. But even dispite that they are closer to Get the signings they want then we are.

And 100% agree it is not about getting any body through the door it’s about getting the right people. The right people should have been identified and contact been made long before the window opened as Murtough has been here years and knowes what we need.

Because test it’s about getting he right people in, but it makes a huge difference whether you get them in at the start of preseason compared to late in the window.

For this window to have been a complete success it was the right players early. Now it can only be a partial success.

 

[johanovic]

Of course it´s logical that ETH wants to sign players he knows...due to their player quality, character and understanding of how he wants his team to play. 7 players have left already from last seasons squad plus this Ronaldo transfer request adding to that. It´s also hard to see long term futures for Jones, Williams, Telles, Tuanzebe and Chong to name just a few more. The plus side of those already gone + Ronaldo leaving is the huge salary cost saved.

At this moment in time we have one new signing onboard in Malacia but if we get Martinez, Antony and De Jong onboard also we are seeing 4 technical and fast players in the team. That would be a step in the right direction. Of course we need some more players but one thing ETH has done constantly at Ajax also was to develop young talent...perhaps Garner, Iqbal, Hannibal and Garnacho will benefit from working with ETH. Everything will not be fixed in one transfer window but if ETH manages to produce a team that can press high up the pitch and play entertaing attacking football no matter how far that takes us this season I´m all in.....this shambles of the last 10 years and plainly the dreadful football played for almost all of that period has to stop. We call Old Trafford "The Theater of Dreams" and hopefully we can return to that soon as for me it´s been more like the Theater of Doom for the past 10 years.

 

[Greck]

Essentially this window is about building the system quickly given the circumstance. Which if we are serious about playing this style of football going forward will mean in the future we can sign players that slot around players familiar faster which decreases the skill gap that is currently massive.

It is also at no detriment to the clubs new structure nor does it undermine it if you look at the BIGGER picture. The sooner the system is in place and working the sooner we know which square pegs no longer work in the round holes and where to scout, by decreasing the skill gap, when it comes to bringing in new management that we want to continue the project, it won't mean another rebuild.

Bear with me here but when did those things become competing objectives. I'm talking quick rebuild and a new structure. The emphasis on a more holistic structure was always long term sustainability beyond managers so surely you see why it's kind of weird to use short term gains as a good reason to suspend changes that were already contingent on sacrificing them. That was kinda always the point.

This is of course if we're to believe a quick rebuild is even the goal. It seemed to come out of nowhere after having previously never being mentioned. I'm not sure when the emphasis once again shifted. We accept next season to have low expectations so the window to implementation a new transfer strategy is not actually going to get any easier than this season. That is of course if we believe these changes were ever intended in the first place. I don't think the club ever told these journos we were switching to a more holistic model where club and manager targets coexist. Between us I'm not even sure I want to but can't deny it would be ideal to find a better balance going forward.

 

[KwendaHuko]

I think the reality is that the pull of the current Utd and of ETH is relatively low and thus ten Hag is having to rely on calling on players he’s already formed a bond with.

Utd is an awfully run club with no CL competing in a League with City, Liverpool, Chelsea and now Conte’s Spurs, and the best players will rightly be avoiding Utd until it’s seen that they have turned a corner.

The problem is that Utd’s owners have no scouting in place and only want to sign ‘statement’ players for their ‘brand’.

This Summer for Utd (thus far) is starting to look a bit like Moyes’ Summer window.

The club really needs to sort itself out and back ETH properly to give him a fair shot.

Bolded part.

I was extremely confused by Murtough abilities but looking at it without emotions the reality is United pull has diminished immensely.

ETH can only bring people who he can call and convince in some way.

The era of bringing players from Mexico is long gone.

We need to accept the reality and make sure in 18 months we are 3 steps higher than where we are, in coaching, style of play and continuity.

The last time we had a permanent manager, real manager was Dec 2018, obviously the effects of interim- permanent- interim manager has been huge.


But the clubs has backed him fully from assistant coaches to player's signed.

Now ETH has bridge the gap of coaching, and continuity and we'll be well.

 

[Memento28]

I don't get so much crying over nothing. The players we are trying to get are ten Hag;s selection. So what ?

de Jong, Ericsen, Martinez, and Antony (if true) are players any top club would have scouted, and would have been happy to get. So why the crying, I ask again.

Malacia, and Brobbey (if true) are surprise inclusions, but at their likely cost, and the potential they represent, what's the big deal?

Do we moan for moanings sake, then?

I guess some of the fans are wary after what has happened over the past 9 years, we had top managers like Mourinho and LVG and other average managers come here and sign player after player and we have nothing to show after spending millions and millions of money but those same fans fail to understand that there were people behind the scenes who had no knowledge of football and were more interested in the commercial stuff, but those people are gone now and the current manager has identified his own targets which is the best thing to happen in my opinion because we won't sign random players who don't fit the manager's style of play like we did the past 9 years and whoever we sign ETH will be held responsible in the end if things don't work out if we sign players scouted by our scouts.

 

[Kag]

I don’t know why people are getting hung up on the rumoured targets; it’s the bringing them in that is clearly the issue.

Useless.

 

[TheReligion]

Firstly your comparing us to a clubs who over the past few months was just forced to be sold because there owner was had connections to a government that is being sanctioned due to it invading another country. If that’s your bar for success then that’s worrying. Would I say Chelsea are a well run club? No they have been ran at a loss for two decades and have only stayed afloat because there owners had loaned them more and more money. Been better then them in terms of club management is not a bar for success. But even dispite that they are closer to Get the signings they want then we are.

And 100% agree it is not about getting any body through the door it’s about getting the right people. The right people should have been identified and contact been made long before the window opened as Murtough has been here years and knowes what we need.

Because test it’s about getting he right people in, but it makes a huge difference whether you get them in at the start of preseason compared to late in the window.

For this window to have been a complete success it was the right players early. Now it can only be a partial success.

I’m comparing United to a club that’s just had a similar over haul to its backroom staff and executives. Ones had a new owner but kept the coach, the other has done the opposite. Arguably United are worse off as the new coaches want to see what the squad is about whilst TT is 12 months in to the job.

 

[Tavern in the town]

Maguire IS a name signing! An 80m signing that was the biggest name British CB available!

That is nonsense. You said the board want statement signings for their brand. In what world does Maguire qualify? Nathan Ake is currently the biggest name British CB on the market and is going to fetch £45m. Is he a “statement for the brand” too?

In the last 10 years you’ve signed OR chased…

Bale - Moyes
Fabregas - Moyes
Mata - Moyes
Schweinsteiger - LvG
Falcao - LvG
Di Maria - LvG
Pogba - JM
Ibrahimovic - JM
Lukaku - JM
Maguire - Ole
Varane - Ole
Ronaldo - Ole
Sancho - Ole

These are just off the top of my head, I’m sure there’s more that fit the bill as well.

The bolded are all signings that were specifically requested by the managers at the time. I assume they couldn’t give a shit about “brand” signings. And regardless, there are dozens of signings we’ve made of players that aren’t especially marketable, as I previously stated.

It’s just an endless line of big, obvious transfers that don’t fit any system other than being high profile.

Not really. That list is full of quality players who have succeeded in many different systems. It was up to the managers to get the best out of them and they obviously failed.

 

[peridigm]

Good thing ETH started early. We'd be in a world of hurt had he not.

 

[Rightnr]

Maguire IS a name signing! An 80m signing that was the biggest name British CB available!

The reason the marketability of these players is low is due to their performances at Utd.

In the last 10 years you’ve signed OR chased…

Bale - Moyes
Fabregas - Moyes
Mata - Moyes
Schweinsteiger - LvG
Falcao - LvG
Di Maria - LvG
Pogba - JM
Ibrahimovic - JM
Lukaku - JM
Maguire - Ole
Varane - Ole
Ronaldo - Ole
Sancho - Ole

These are just off the top of my head, I’m sure there’s more that fit the bill as well.

It’s just an endless line of big, obvious transfers that don’t fit any system other than being high profile.

You cannot convince these people. Logic is not their strong suit, even if they weren't purposely trying to delude themselves we've somehow turned a corner despite all the evidence to the contrary.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I’m comparing United to a club that’s just had a similar over haul to its backroom staff and executives. Ones had a new owner but kept the coach, the other has done the opposite. Arguably United are worse off as the new coaches want to see what the squad is about whilst TT is 12 months in to the job.

That’s the point of hiring a director or football so if a manger leaves or doesn’t work out you have continuity in the squad building and don’t have to start from scatch again finding players that fit a different philosophy. Murtough has been in the job for over a year the 3rd tranfer window he has been in charge, and been at the club for nearly a decade and statements he has been heavily involved in first team signings at least going back to the Maguire and Wan-Bissaka signings. Arnold while only about 6 months into the job has been at the club 15 years, and on the board of directors for nearly a decade. They both no the club inside and out. These are not new to the club in anyway way.

it’s also clear that it isn’t a case of simply them holding fire this summer and waiting then Ten Hag to assess the squad because we are trying to sign players (that are clearly Ten Hags suggestions ) we are just just doing a terrible job of doing it.

 

[Stinkypete]

Completely agree barring one point: I actually think its worse than what you're describing.

Ten Hag has come in and said, for example, I need a midfield player who can move the ball from defence and attack quickly. The club has then replied: 'Well, we we like Declan Rice, we like Jude Bellingham but they'd cost £100m each.' Ten Hag has then responded: 'Well who else have you scouted for me?' The club has responded: 'Erm...do you know anyone?' Now we've ended up on an Ajax alumni shopping spree...

It makes you wonder how much preparatory work went into Ten Hag's appointment. How much buy in the club actually has in his vision. Whether they'll sack it off after 10 months if its not going well and just get Pochettino if he's still unemployed.

Really, as you say, this appointment should've been step one towards a new vision for the club. A vision where, if it all goes wrong we don't just go back to square one, but we get another coach similar to Ten Hag who can execute our vision for what type of football we want. In the same way Barcelona or Ajax would never go out and hire a defensive manager who plays 5 at the back.

I just don't trust that the club has the thinking upstairs to do the things you, rightly, suggest should've already happened. I think they will get all these players in and, if it goes wrong, they'll just go for the biggest available name 'to get something' out of the squad.

Makes me worry for Ten Hag because I think he'll be the convenient fall guy if it goes to pot: These are all his players, this is all his fault. We gave him what he wanted and he failed. You can see it now.

The guy's a head coach and they're trying to make him into a manager. They may as well have hired Marc Overmars as a consultant when they fired Rangnick...

You realise of course that during his spell at FC Utrecht, Ten Hag was involved in the restructuring of the club at a director level as well as being on the grass?