I know it's not the problem because the manager is failing at the very things that are within the remit of being manager. It's pretty simple
Directors aren't responsible for team selections, coaching, making substitutes, and tactical decisions
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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Directors aren't responsible for team selections, coaching, making substitutes, and tactical decisions
He didn't pay 80M for Antony, the club did. Why wasn't there somebody to say we're not spending more than 50M (still a massive overspend, but I'm being realistic as we didn't know what we know now, the gaffer did want him amd Ajax didn't want to sell) on this guy?
To answer this directly, I've just had enough of getting new coaches in to see exactly the same problems time and time again. On the pitch: pattern of play, lack of creativity, and no coordinated press. Off the pitch terrible recruitment, terrible contract management and failure to sell players. It's groundhog day every day every year. Chopping and changing the manager is irrelevant it seems. So we support eth because we think it will put another sticking plaster over our crumbling bones if we do and hide for six months to a year of new manager honeymoon period the urgency of making structural changes.
Don't get me wrong. If the club makes those changes and identified a talented coach willing to take the job, I think most would accept he could be sacked here given how bad it's going.
I don't really mind that he wanted control of transfers.
But it has to be said that his transfers have heard been a resounding success here they.
Which ones have actually improved the team....none. Although maybe Jonny Evans has performed better than most expected. And you can argue whether he was an actual transfer.
Man of the match votes were Garnacho, Mainoo, Diallo and Evans.
If they sack ETH and keep Rashford, Bruno, Shaw they're bound to fail again.
If they sack ETH and keep Rashford, Bruno, Shaw they're bound to fail again.
He will improve us in possession a huge amount but he can’t change the personnel up top which is where the quality is lacking.
My fear is we’ve crocked him though. Repeat injuries are never good, we could all see he was injured when he was playing as well.
So strange. It’s almost like everyone’s like “United lost again? Standard.” And then there’s not actual tactical analysis to hold the manager accountable.
They have an agreement with the Glazers that any football decisions are essentially made by them, during this ratification period. They're in control right now and can change the manager, as long as the Glazers agree.
People keep mentioning playing McTom as though it's his personal cross to bear, despite every manager playing the useless git, and the fact that any new manager coming in would also likely play him. The country seems to have been somehow convinced that he's great. I guarantee that any new manager will play McTom first game.
From the comment you responded to:
The fact is what is going on above EtH is a significant factor and despite having more control than the likes of Solskjaer, EtH does not have full control. That belongs to Joel Glazer and is about to change.
Besides, all this talk of 'arrogance', 'warning signs' and allegations of 'tactical ineptitude' from us armchair critics, none have proffered a suitable alternative which works with the imminent regime change. Some seem to think pointing out Liverpool's excellent recruitment strategy, which our new chemical overlords are keen to implement, is 'mental gymnastics'.
It's almost as though people are cranky because we don't win every week like we are clearly entitled to, and are not heeding the repeated warnings of the last decade as a result.
I seem to remember us not having any form of shortlist or list of potential transfers when ETH arrived at the club, which ultimately led to us scrambling around for players he knew or had worked with previously. His transfers haven’t all worked out, but we shouldn’t have been relying on him to be the de facto source of player intel in the first place. That’s the problem. ETH, the newly arriving manager, had to fill the void.
Ineos won't put up with this guy for long.
You realise we were playing Nottingham Forest, right? What they would give to have the player pool we select from.
When our injuries are brought up, then you see the fodder we’re getting mauled by on any given match day, it lends the question of how much of an advantage do people think we need, and also whatever happened to being a unit stronger than its individual components? Why do we always look worse than who we are playing against unless they gift us a high line and/or acres of space to play in through midfield?
We get mauled by thoroughly average or poor sides and injuries of ours are cited; are we just flat track bullies incapable of winning open contests without massive advantages?
You've even got the likes of Henry Winter, who comes out after every poor performance or loss and tweets "it's the players, not the manager". ETHs agent must be putting in some serious work to keep these journalists on side and not even willing to question what is happening. Probably were all happy to give him credit after last season, yet £200m later and suddenly it's the players fault entirely that we're struggling to beat even the worst teams and he's getting out thought by practically every manager he faces.
If something happens, you put in a solution.
The funny thing about Potter is that his build-up and his pressing tactics generally are more complicated than anything ETH has tried here. A lot of ETH's shortcomings can be traced back to a philosophy (yeah, i know people hate that word) that relies heavily on specific individual duty to improve the collective. It's a Dutch thing, i guess, expecting your players to be able to perform certain tasks and follow specific instructions regardless of the formation. Potter's tactics, on the other hand, demand good reading of the game and adequate coordination of the 11 players on the pitch on a more collective level. Given that our lads looked the happiest when Solskjaer was keeping plain and simple for them, Potter at United does have the feel of watching a car crash in slow motion. All the more so because, if he gets the gig, he will inherit, in terms of player compatibility (important to raise the collective here and now), probably the worst assembled United squad in 50 years.
The only thing going for him between now and the next premier league game is a big gap in the calender and loads of first teamers coming from injury. If we get knocked out the FA cup that surely would be highly unacceptable. The last straw would be defeat in the home game against spurs.
However he always seems to pull something out the bag whenever he needs it most. We'll probably win the next two games.
However he always seems to pull something out the bag whenever he needs it most. We'll probably win the next two games.
At some point, the coaching goes beyond incompetent and becomes outright malicious. Surely this is now bordering on that point.
He's starting to remind me of Ole towards the end, so many issues and unable to fix them. Such a shame as I think he's a marvelous coach. Maybe the job is just too big for him and he's been badly let down by the owners. If Casemiro and Martinez coming back doesn't rapidly turn around performances, he's gone and the problems will be passed on until the luxury players, who aren't difference makers, will become someone else's problem. I genuinely hop Sancho gets the boot, as I don't want to see him represent the club again, too proud to even fake an apology, feck him.
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I’ve been saying it since Moyes but the difference is I don’t think changing manager makes things much better until the foundations are in place first. That’s where alot of you don’t seem to see the irony of accusing fans of being comitted to a manager. Some fans are comitted to the delusion that replacing managers will eventually lead to success cause chelsea under Roman.
It’s not rocket science , so I don’t understand how some of you find it so hard to grasp. You do not need a world class Pep to do well at clubs. Having a functioning, competent football structure yields the potential for greater success then having an unbelievable manager. Part of the reason for this is because there only one handful of world class coaches in that bracket and they seldom available.
Look at Barca, Madrid , city and Bayern. These clubs win regardless of manager, why is that? Why is it that we can’t find one manager in the world, over 10 years, who can do anything remotely acceptable? That’s either some amount of misfortune or it’s a pattern of how the clubs been run.
Every player and manager fails at United. You are speaking about ETH as if we were winning leagues before he joined. United has consistently been under performing in pretty much every area of football , from transfers, to performances.
I think ETH has been seriously unlucky. Only a moron ignores or excuses the injuries (as excuses) but we seem to have alot of them around here. Our squad isn’t just riddled with injuries , it’s crocked from last season, like Liverpool were crocked last year after 2022 when they played a similar amount of games but they didn’t have a World Cup squeezed into their season . Liverpool didn’t have all the other drama going on and from what I can remember they didn’t have the same kind of injury crisis we are having.
I don’t want ETH sacked but I would understand if he was at this stage. I’d also rather any new potential manager joins the club after a lot of the purge has been done by INEOs, not during, a lot of you have zero patience for transitional periods so dont want to be having read whingethread after whingethread about the new manager when things invariably take time to recover.
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Looking forward to having a proper structure in place above ten Hag to deal with these goals being conceded.
The issue is that the concept is very nebulous, the way it's used here.
The 'football structure' is not the same as 'the people who are employed within that structure', yet they are used interchangeably.
If the next manager insists to play McT in the same midfield or deep midfield role without adequate coaching, then they will be pretty much sacked before they even start.
McT is the player you throw on for 15 minutes at the end of a game when you're in total control but need a goal. His minutes on the pitch should be limited because he is a tactical disaster.
The bigger issue is that historically the most successful clubs who presumably have good enough structures have sacked and still sack at a similar or higher rate than United has in the past ten years.
To me the point of having a "proper football structure" is that you're not dependent on individuals.
But from posts I read here, some people want a "proper football structure" just so that it can support a long-term manager.
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But when have you seen him used this way? He's been here long enough and every manager has been fairly consistently playing him, despite it being blindingly obvious that he's not good enough. I don't imagine any new manager coming in will suddenly bench him. He'll be one of the first names on the team sheet as usual because he sometimes scores a goal and nobody in football seems to be able to see past this!
ETH would have a rough idea about a transfer budget in each window. For example, as an extreme example, he would know he couldn't spend £ 500 million. It's reckless of ETH to demand the signing of a player which takes a huge chunk of the transfer budget.
The difference between Ten Hag and someone like Klopp is laughable.
In the Liverpool/Arsenal game, Klopp made a change to midfield that upset the balance and didn't work. Within 15 minutes he made another change to address the issue.
Our manager just sits there with that thousand yard stare plastered over his face praying we can play our way through it.
In the Liverpool/Arsenal game, Klopp made a change to midfield that upset the balance and didn't work. Within 15 minutes he made another change to address the issue.
Our manager just sits there with that thousand yard stare plastered over his face praying we can play our way through it.
We never do, and concede.
Very off-topic, but do you reckon we stand a chance:
Or maybe we should look into the manager?
Or maybe we should look into the manager?
Moyes' United were seventh after 20 games, with 34 points from 20 games, having scored 33 goals and conceded 24. Fast forward and now Ten Hag's United are also in seventh, with just 31 points from 20 games. With 22 goals scored and 27 conceded, Ten Hag's team is scoring fewer and conceding more than the side that cost Moyes his job.
Excerpt from an ESPN article.
Excerpt from an ESPN article.
He's a terrible coach.
Dire
His fan base will just cling to whatever positives they can find so for a while it was heroic 3-0 win v Palace in the cup and that first half against Spurs. Now they also have Chelsea and Villa games to mention.That story's already changing through telling and retelling.
Saw someone on here yesterday saying that the Spurs performance was the best first half he's seen since SAF retired.
Obviously the League Cup win, possibly our most heralded trophy win ever and the most famous cup run in clubs nearly 150-year history is there too.
Upper management failed us more than EtH. He literally doesn't sign the players.
Who in their right mind would think or expect a manager to have actual full control? There are no managers who have "full control" in that sense of the word. A manager isn't going to be above the Glazers
ETH has more control and has been backed more than vast majority of managers in the sport.What's going on above ETH is a factor but are we honestly saying results of his work are not quantifiable? Like, we don't really know who he is and can't tell what he's capable of until the club is changed from ground up? It is really the equivalent of saying Antony could be a world beater for all we know. Yeah, he'd probably do better in a better team but he's still be an extremely limited player and we can tell with near certainty he's not a world beater being held back by the club.
Athletic confirmed he wasn't told of in not mistaken.
It makes your blood boil watching clips like that. We've been conceding the same goal all season, regardless of personnel, and then you have people harping on about injuries and what have you. There are huge tactical flaws in how we play and those are the reasons why we're categorically bad, in defence and attack.
Our games have been like basketball matches all season, the midfield is consistently bypassed with ease, and this is seemingly accepted as though it's some kind of inevitability. The manager hasn't got a scooby. We're desperate for a coach who knows how to organise a team and construct even a basic midfield.
I find that hard to believe. And even if it were true, a responsible manager would WANT to know how much the club are going to pay for a player
Precisely. That’s why me and Skills popularized the term ‘cult of the manager’, cause for lots of people, the club is there to support the manager, not the other way around. Probably cause of Busby and Ferguson, but we have the only fanbase who always say ‘support the club and the manager’, not ‘support the club’. We heard cliches ‘sack him of back him’ for managers where ‘back him’ is essentially sign whatever the manager wants (Ed heavily criticized for not signing Maguire when Mourinho wanted him). And even now, there are lots of people who can’t perceive the idea that you can sign players without necessarily the manager wanting them (or even knowing about them).
So the same people who ask for a good footballing structure would be the first to complain when we have that structure. Because that structure won’t worship the manager and won’t be there to ‘support the manager’ in the way these people understand what ‘supporting’ mean. It will be there to make the club not very dependent on the manager, ensure the club’s success and would sack the manager at the first time of big trouble. With such a football structure, EtH would have been sacked in October at latest. Until recently we hear ‘we do not want to become Chelsea’ as in winning titles at the cost of changing managers is not acceptable. Despite that since they have become Chelsea, they have won the same number of leagues, one more UCL than us, and more lesser trophies. Despite that for half this time we had the GOAT manager. But that model is still not desirable to a large part of United’s fanbase. What they want is a Messiah, not a football structure. And lots think that we have already found that Messiah in EtH.
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I just don’t understand our midfield set up. The gaps are huge, and none of our CDMs have the legs to cover the space.
Its mind boggling we’ve not went back to a 4231 yet.
Its mind boggling we’ve not went back to a 4231 yet.
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