Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Anyone who is blaming this on the players is deluded.

Last season, he played a system that suited the squad but clearly wasn’t the way he wanted to play…. And we got to 2 cup finals, and qualified for the CL.

This season he has completely ripped up that system, and tried to force players who were performing well last year into unfamiliar roles that they are clearly not capable of doing.

And even though we have had half a season with it clearly not working, he simply will not change it back. Most likely because he justified his summer transfer budget on bringing in players for this new system, and any roll back to last years 4231 will be admitting he has wasted 10s of millions on something he can’t implement successfully.

And all the talk of injuries is rubbish too… he played this system with Casemiro, Mount, and Martinez at the start of the season and we were just as bad.

He either goes back to last years tactics, or we are coming bottom half. Simple as that.
 
Dannn411 said:
Pure delusion. The way this guy goes on you'd think we hadn't lost 14 games 5 months. Totally incompetent and way out of his depth.
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It just struck me, if you say lost 14 games in 5 months it means an average of almost losing 3 games every month. It is just beyond pathetic. Worst run in almost a century.
 
sammyhol said:
Anyone who is blaming this on the players is deluded.

Last season, he played a system that suited the squad but clearly wasn’t the way he wanted to play…. And we got to 2 cup finals, and qualified for the CL.

This season he has completely ripped up that system, and tried to force players who were performing well last year into unfamiliar roles that they are clearly not capable of doing.

And even though we have had half a season with it clearly not working, he simply will not change it back. Most likely because he justified his summer transfer budget on bringing in players for this new system, and any roll back to last years 4231 will be admitting he has wasted 10s of millions on something he can’t implement successfully.

And all the talk of injuries is rubbish too… he played this system with Casemiro, Mount, and Martinez at the start of the season and we were just as bad.

He either goes back to last years tactics, or we are coming bottom half. Simple as that.
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But why should the manager keep abandoning a style he wants to try and implement just because the players don't fancy it? fecking weird take.. may as well bin the manager and let the players make it up themselves.
 
sammyhol said:
Anyone who is blaming this on the players is deluded.

Last season, he played a system that suited the squad but clearly wasn’t the way he wanted to play…. And we got to 2 cup finals, and qualified for the CL.

This season he has completely ripped up that system, and tried to force players who were performing well last year into unfamiliar roles that they are clearly not capable of doing.

And even though we have had half a season with it clearly not working, he simply will not change it back. Most likely because he justified his summer transfer budget on bringing in players for this new system, and any roll back to last years 4231 will be admitting he has wasted 10s of millions on something he can’t implement successfully.

And all the talk of injuries is rubbish too… he played this system with Casemiro, Mount, and Martinez at the start of the season and we were just as bad.

He either goes back to last years tactics, or we are coming bottom half. Simple as that.
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I don't agree that the players are blameless, but his two x 8's does not work. We don't retain the ball well enough to have just a single pivot, nor do we have one good enough. Plus, when City play like this, they have full backs dynamic enough to push into the center of midfield. Ours are no where near good enough for this.
 
Danny said:
Lost count of the amount of goals, and chances, that we concede through a pull back or similar and no one tracks their man. Free shot at goal every time. Why can't ETH see this? Or does he?

Amad has played 20 mins and already looks better than £80m Anthony who he continues to pick. It's bizarre.

1 shot on target before half time from a full back (which was the same the other week when Shaw did). It's pathetic and I just don't see any implementation of any style of play whatsoever.

Breaking records each week for the wrong reasons. Has to be moved on now.
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Not bizarre at all. It was his signing, sacrificing manutd and putting his ego above else is what ETH has done time and time again. Rashford played well last game, garnacho too.. and where were they this game? Yep, played out of position, and to shoehorn who? Yep, Anthony. That's why I'm telling you, the players are doesn't help one bit. You can't hire dog shit to help manage cat poop.
 
like a lot of fans I am resigned to seeing ETH getting the sack. I can also see him moving on and becoming successful somewhere else. I don't want ETH to be sacked but its clearly obvious these players are not responding to his methods but this group have done same to previous managers. I suppose my criticism is that he still hangs his hat on McT, AWB, Rashford and Dalot who have shown they are not good enough! The Mainoo change was terrible. Either way, sack or no Sack I just want this season done!!! Struggling to be optimistic because the owners remain, Sir Jim' investment will head to the states and stuck with players on absolutely CRAZY wages who we cannot shift!!
 
So, who would do a better job?

Last season he had a solid CB partnership between Martinez & Varane, Casemiro proving a point for a season completely revitalising our midfield and had Marcus Rashford play out of his skin (turns out he could stretch a purple patch to an entire season purely to get a contract).

He also had no say in the fees United’s hierarchy were willing to pay for players like Antony, Mount etc and also been screwed by the bosses when he came wanting an established ST.

If he got sacked now then his successor won’t have money to rebuild due to our FFP issues, so they’d mostly have to work with what they have.

So, again, who would do better?
 
I was a firm supporter of EtH but even now....I'm done.

He looks a Moyes level of aged in the post match press conference. Sounded ill.

Time he went. Perfect time too, his pr could spin it in his favour about trophy last year, needing time, new owners and all that crap.

Gives us a couple of months to let this apparent savour in Ratcliffe do some work.

We are a long way down. Like really bad. And I think we all need to be prepared because this isn't a quick turn around. I fear we are at our worst since fergie. Under no other manager was it as bad as this. Even Moyes...
 
The commentators kept going on about how inconsistent we are, but we’re not. We’re very consistent. Consistently shite.

Erik has created one of the most mind numbingly boring teams I’ve ever had the misfortune to watch. There’s not a hint of excitement or fun in this team. We don’t attack, we don’t create, we don’t score, we don’t entertain. 18 months he’s had with these players and we still have no identity as a team. He’s so far past the point in which he should have been sacked it’s laughable.
 
STYLOISRED said:
Coaching is poor ffs! No direction no plan. Ole atleast had a plan which worked well and seemed to maximise the strengths of his players.
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Ole spent 3yrs without targeting a CM, keeping McFred as our midfield engine and played players even when injured - how’s that maximising their strengths?
 
LordSpud said:
But why should the manager keep abandoning a style he wants to try and implement just because the players don't fancy it? fecking weird take.. may as well bin the manager and let the players make it up themselves.
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That’s not what I’m saying though is it…

You play the hand that you are dealt, and make incremental changes over time.

Do you honestly think the players are “downing tools” because they don’t like the system?

Or is it more likely that they don’t possess the qualities to perform the duties as instructed?

And if is the latter, it’s the coaches job to either coach the players to perform the duties as expected, or change the style to better suit the strengths of his squad.

Name me a single player in the squad who this system suits?

Rashford has no one overlapping so gets doubled up.

The free space where Bruno is strongest is more congested, and he is having to cover deeper where he is liable to lose possession in dangerous areas.

No single DM is the squad has the right combination of legs, physical presence, and tactical discipline to play as a lone 6.

None of the fullbacks are particularly well suited to stepping into midfield other than maybe Shaw, but we massively miss the natural width he provides on the left.

This system doesn’t suit us. Simple as that. You don’t turn up at Silverstone with a rally car. This is no different.
 
gaffs said:
Why is that an assumption? I don't get the Graham Potter thing?
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Potter is a mid table club manager. Chelsea was way to big a job for him and they are in better condition than us. Our house hasn't collapsed, but the feckin roof is leaking, the plasters coming away, and the handle on the toilet is broke. And we have a team of turds. Floating through their contracts.
 
Partridge said:
Potter is a mid table club manager. Chelsea was way to big a job for him and they are in better condition than us. Our house hasn't collapsed, but the feckin roof is leaking, the plasters coming away, and the handle on the toilet is broke. And we have a team of turds. Floating through their contracts.
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We don't need a Potter then. We need a plumber!!!
 
Jericholyte2 said:
So, who would do a better job?

Last season he had a solid CB partnership between Martinez & Varane, Casemiro proving a point for a season completely revitalising our midfield and had Marcus Rashford play out of his skin (turns out he could stretch a purple patch to an entire season purely to get a contract).

He also had no say in the fees United’s hierarchy were willing to pay for players like Antony, Mount etc and also been screwed by the bosses when he came wanting an established ST.

If he got sacked now then his successor won’t have money to rebuild due to our FFP issues, so they’d mostly have to work with what they have.

So, again, who would do better?
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Really? Who would do worse?

I'd find it hard to believe that even someone like Big Sam couldn't get a better tune out of the squad to the end of the season. At least he'd have some sort of personality and motivational quality.

Like you basically said Rashford papered over huge cracks last season. Some of us were called all sorts for saying it but could see it for what it was.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
So, who would do a better job?

Last season he had a solid CB partnership between Martinez & Varane, Casemiro proving a point for a season completely revitalising our midfield and had Marcus Rashford play out of his skin (turns out he could stretch a purple patch to an entire season purely to get a contract).

He also had no say in the fees United’s hierarchy were willing to pay for players like Antony, Mount etc and also been screwed by the bosses when he came wanting an established ST.

If he got sacked now then his successor won’t have money to rebuild due to our FFP issues, so they’d mostly have to work with what they have.

So, again, who would do better?
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A lot of people i guess. Why are people thinking that Ten Hag is a messias or something? We lost 14 games already, that is totally unacceptable. We have no style, no consistency, everything Ten Hag says after games is bullshit about playing well or controlling the games and choices he is making are a lot of the times contradictionary to what he said earlier.

Ofcourse we have a lot of injuries and we need better players and a better structure. But we also finished top 3 four times in the last six years. We have talent coming through and he spend a lot of money on players he alone wanted.

At some point you have to say this is unacceptable. He talks about standards and that United have to win every game. We are just shocking now.
 
gaffs said:
I don't agree that the players are blameless, but his two x 8's does not work. We don't retain the ball well enough to have just a single pivot, nor do we have one good enough. Plus, when City play like this, they have full backs dynamic enough to push into the center of midfield. Ours are no where near good enough for this.
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Agreed. I know we want to play a more dominant style of football but we simply don’t have the players to fully implement this system yet. We have tried for 5 months and it’s been suicidal defensively. Managers are meant to learn from mistakes. Even when Mount and Casemiro were fit the system was a complete disaster. We were dominated by Wolves in our first game and they could have easily scored 5-6 goals.

We need more control in midfield. He should never have wasted the money on Hojlund and Mount (appreciate he doesn’t negotiate) and the club should have got Onana for free the previous summer. Yes we needed a striker but not signing Mount and Onana is £100m. If we could just sign players like Liverpool do we could have bought two solid players for our non-existent midfield. I would have taken the two players Liverpool signed for that money.
 
Jericholyte2 said:
So, who would do a better job?

Last season he had a solid CB partnership between Martinez & Varane, Casemiro proving a point for a season completely revitalising our midfield and had Marcus Rashford play out of his skin (turns out he could stretch a purple patch to an entire season purely to get a contract).

He also had no say in the fees United’s hierarchy were willing to pay for players like Antony, Mount etc and also been screwed by the bosses when he came wanting an established ST.

If he got sacked now then his successor won’t have money to rebuild due to our FFP issues, so they’d mostly have to work with what they have.

So, again, who would do better?
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Asking who would do better is such a weird question

What you're essentially saying is Ten Hag is performing as well as can be expected, and he's the best manager available
 
sammyhol said:
Anyone who is blaming this on the players is deluded.

Last season, he played a system that suited the squad but clearly wasn’t the way he wanted to play…. And we got to 2 cup finals, and qualified for the CL.

This season he has completely ripped up that system, and tried to force players who were performing well last year into unfamiliar roles that they are clearly not capable of doing.

And even though we have had half a season with it clearly not working, he simply will not change it back. Most likely because he justified his summer transfer budget on bringing in players for this new system, and any roll back to last years 4231 will be admitting he has wasted 10s of millions on something he can’t implement successfully.

And all the talk of injuries is rubbish too… he played this system with Casemiro, Mount, and Martinez at the start of the season and we were just as bad.

He either goes back to last years tactics, or we are coming bottom half. Simple as that.
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I almost felt sorry for him today the players were so bad, but you say it's the change in tactics. Sorry to be a dumb ass, but could you explain the changes in tactics to me please ?
 
Stig said:
I almost felt sorry for him today the players were so bad, but you say it's the change in tactics. Sorry to be a dumb ass, but could you explain the changes in tactics to me please ?
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sammyhol said:
That’s not what I’m saying though is it…

You play the hand that you are dealt, and make incremental changes over time.

Do you honestly think the players are “downing tools” because they don’t like the system?

Or is it more likely that they don’t possess the qualities to perform the duties as instructed?

And if is the latter, it’s the coaches job to either coach the players to perform the duties as expected, or change the style to better suit the strengths of his squad.

Name me a single player in the squad who this system suits?

Rashford has no one overlapping so gets doubled up.

The free space where Bruno is strongest is more congested, and he is having to cover deeper where he is liable to lose possession in dangerous areas.

No single DM is the squad has the right combination of legs, physical presence, and tactical discipline to play as a lone 6.

None of the fullbacks are particularly well suited to stepping into midfield other than maybe Shaw, but we massively miss the natural width he provides on the left.

This system doesn’t suit us. Simple as that. You don’t turn up at Silverstone with a rally car. This is no different.
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This pretty much explains my thoughts…
 
Ace of Spades said:
Now he has started making lame excuses. We were just as shit when all our players were available. We have looked just as bad all season. The same empty midfield, the same cut back goals. The same clueless and directionless football.

feck off, and take the dross you seem so attached with you as well. Ffs, terrible management by a terrible, clueless manager.
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Personally, I think the worst thing he said tonight is "we were overperforming last year" (a direct quote). Which apparently means he believes that winning the Vimtobowl and finishing miles off in third was a great success and, if anything, an overachievement, when many might say it was the absolute bare minimum. He seems pretty detatched from the expectations that people had going into this season at the very least. The impression I get is that he genuinely thinks he's doing well and has been a victim of circumstances beyond his control this season.
 
People are lying to themselves if they think we've been here before.

We've never been this bad before. We have 9 losses in 20 games. -5 GD. 22 goals scored in 20 goals. Our attacking metrics are up there with relegation teams. We have still not beaten a decent side away from home. Last in a relatively easy CL group. We've played well in like 3-4 games all season. We're an abject footballing side.

We have 14 losses in all competitions so far this season in only 28 or so games. The worst seasons of our other managers, we had like 15-16 losses in almost 50+ games.

Ten Hag has been backed more than any other manager and we've never been this bad. Anyone defending him is clearly a WUM at this point and I can't take their football viewpoint seriously.
 
INEOS not having full control of recruitment and the injury excuse will keep him in a job
 
Josep Dowling said:
Agreed. I know we want to play a more dominant style of football but we simply don’t have the players to fully implement this system yet. We have tried for 5 months and it’s been suicidal defensively. Managers are meant to learn from mistakes. Even when Mount and Casemiro were fit the system was a complete disaster. We were dominated by Wolves in our first game and they could have easily scored 5-6 goals.

We need more control in midfield. He should never have wasted the money on Hojlund and Mount (appreciate he doesn’t negotiate) and the club should have got Onana for free the previous summer. Yes we needed a striker but not signing Mount and Onana is £100m. If we could just sign players like Liverpool do we could have bought two solid players for our non-existent midfield. I would have taken the two players Liverpool signed for that money.
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Onana was signed before the previous summer. Inter got him on the back of the drugs ban on a pre contract. IIRC, DDG was on good form then.

Agree, we were wide open v Wolves. And Spurs. And Forest home with Mount, Casemiro and Bruno. It may well be that with more time, it could have worked, with a full back coming in and supporting Casemiro but injuries didn't allow it to pan out.

We needed a striker. Beyond Matial, we had no one. We paid way too much for Hojland, but there were few options. The service he has received has been almost non existent. His first Prem goal had to be setup by a Villa player! So what you expect when you have no service from the wings?

The lack of form from Rashford has been one of the biggest factors this year. He has gone from winning 3 x POTM awards last season (only he and Salah have ever done that) to being anonymous in games. I think he may have lost Rashford a little by isolating Sancho.
 
In the second half of the season ETH has to demonstrate to INEOS that he can get the requisite performance levels out of the players (particularly away from home). If that’s not happening by springtime you’d expect INEOS to make a judgement - I don’t see why they’d risk jeopardising the 24/25 campaign.

I like ETH and would love to see him succeed, but he’s effectively on trial over the new few weeks/months. And I struggle to see how this is going to come together for him.
 
LordSpud said:
But why should the manager keep abandoning a style he wants to try and implement just because the players don't fancy it? fecking weird take.. may as well bin the manager and let the players make it up themselves.
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Because it’s shit. It’s not working. It’s not even showing improvement. If he can’t figure out a way to make it work, and also refuses to change it when it doesn’t work, then he’s not fit for the job. If we can’t score goals and we can’t defend goals, what’s the point of his system?
 
Jacko21 said:
In the second half of the season ETH has to demonstrate to INEOS that he can get the requisite performance levels out of the players (particularly away from home). If that’s not happening by springtime you’d expect INEOS to make a judgement - I don’t see why they’d risk jeopardising the 24/25 campaign.

I like ETH and would love to see him succeed, but he’s effectively on trial over the new few weeks/months. And I struggle to see how this is going to come together for him.
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He is already on trial. We all understand the pressures we have with injuries but his team selection and in game subs and tactical changes are awful.

Throwing away our midfield for more bodies upfield is a gamble that only works if those players generate threat.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
People are lying to themselves if they think we've been here before.

We've never been this bad before. We have 9 losses in 20 games. -5 GD. 22 goals scored in 20 goals. Our attacking metrics are up there with relegation teams. We have still not beaten a decent side away from home. Last in a relatively easy CL group. We've played well in like 3-4 games all season. We're an abject footballing side.

We have 14 losses in all competitions so far this season in only 28 or so games. The worst seasons of our other managers, we had like 15-16 losses in almost 50+ games.

Ten Hag has been backed more than any other manager and we've never been this bad. Anyone defending him is clearly a WUM at this point and I can't take their football viewpoint seriously.
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Nailed it.
 
He can't get a tune out of these players and they're clearly not responding. I don't really see how this ends well for him.
 
That McTominay sub was inspired, what an unbelievable manager.
 
Trust me, if we were doing Graham Potter/xG shenanigans, like Poch at Chelsea currently, where we kept inexplicably losing matches despite being the better side, I’d be defending any manager to the the hilt. ETH gets shite performances out of us most weeks now and we deservedly lose most weeks now.

What’s most damning though is the fact we are 90 games in and he still can’t get a team to play in his supposed vision in back-to-back matches.
 
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