Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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It is utterly insane what complete bluffers like Ole and Ten Hag have done to our fan base. People talking about writing the season off and taking mid table finishes for a few years ala Arsenal so he can build his own team… he has done nothing in his career to merit this kind of backing. Absolute cultists. You would never hear this from fans of the other big clubs.

There are no ingredients of a PL title winning manager in ETH. We don’t need a new sporting structure rectify tactical errors, poor in game decision making, and an inability to win away against a half decent PL team. We don’t need another £400m investment to achieve a nonnegative goal difference. A genuinely quality manager would already be implementing these things after 1.5 years in the job. The squad is a mess and he has played his part in that. His meek acceptance of poor decisions against us is almost as infuriating as Oles post-defeat giggling, and is the result of neither being charismatic leaders.
 
hobbers said:
Ole came in as what was supposed to be interim and turned the form book on its head. And he wasnt even competent.
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AndySmith1990 said:
Changing a manager could, however, fix issues with tactics, coaching, and in-game management. You know, the things that directly affect the result of football matches
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Ole probably could have stayed at home 24/7 in the first 4 weeks and might have achieved the same. Because the negative effect of Mourinho was finally gone. And think of how he got us results, he made us hard to beat and counter. It is the most basic setup there is, this isn't me accusing Ole of making a mistake, it was the right thing at the time and it flourished because teams took a long time to realize how deadly we became in a relatively short time on the break. But from that point onwards, it went downhill because a big club can't rely on such basic principles.

You have to realize what you are breaking up for the sake of a hopeful new manager bounce. While understandable, it simply is not worth it. You are harping about 4th or 5th place, for what?! We clearly are in behind the Liverpool, City and Arsenal. Thankfully Spurs and Chelsea are also in a bit of turmoil or they would be clearly in front of us as well. Not even speaking about upcoming teams like Aston Villa and Newcastle.

I am as frustrated as you about some of the stubbornness, some of ETHs selections. But getting rid of him will have limited effect! What are you expecting the other manager to pull off? A working pressing system? How?! Our players workrate is shit and the organisation (while getting better slowly) isn't great. It isn't a thing of "just straighten things out" it is a thing of introducing the concept to large parts of the squad. Same for "control" or "possession". You think, another manager will just come in and improve the team in this aspect by "being there"? Those players haven't played like this since forever. The played the exact opposite.

All we could expect is a manager to come in and go basic again - compact and countering. Which is a bit what Erik has been doing the last 2 or 3 games. Another manager might be able to get a little better results with it it won't be a big jump. And soon there will be the "clean slate" talks once again. And we will find ourselves right where we were after Oles interim phase. Keep ETH until the end of the season as long as the new regime doesn't manage to get their No1 manager option in january. If this no1 isn't available, there is no point in switching halfway through the season.

Big Ben Foster said:
"Supporters" in quotes :rolleyes:

I see we're right back to the "anyone who doesn't support ETH isn't a real fan" rhetoric.
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It is almost comical isn't it? Lets hope it stays as rare as it does until now but I certainly see this rising once again. Nothing learned after Ole wars.

OrcaFat said:
It’s a very simplistic view of what makes a good manager and how to evaluate the work he’s doing. We’re not winning games we should win but everything I read about him and even comments coming from people at the club at the moment, give me some optimism. I think you’re mistaken about him. We’ll see anyway.
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I agree with you on this. There is next to no sense to give too much weight to advice coming from other fan groups who aren't as deeply into it. The 2nd post of the guy was pretty fair though, I would agree with most of his observation, just the conclusions wouldn't be mine. It feels like there is a growing number of fans simply opting to go for fast solution instead of going for thorough solution. Watching us under ETH is frustrating these days, no question about it. But this can't be the only reason to wish for a quick end. We have to have a contingency plan otherwise it is once again just another impulsive decision. As much as new manager bounce would make us feel a little more comfortable, in my eyes it absolutely isn't worth it considering all the bad things that will go along with it.

Red Comet said:
I know I'm digressing in an EtH thread, but I disagree on the assertion that Ole is incompetent. Yes his team was one dimensional and only relied on rapid counter attacks, but we managed to finish in top 3 for 2 consecutive seasons, something even more illustrious managers like LvG or Mou hasn't been able to achieve. We also played some of the most enjoyable football during that period.

His signings were not totally gash. Ole tried to pedal Haaland to Man Utd whilst he was under his management at FC Molde, but Moyes didn't want him. He pushed hard to sign Bellingham, which was then royally screwed up by Murtourgh if the reports were true. Out of his signings:
  • Bruno is still one of our key players on the team
  • AWB remains one of the best 1-1 tackler and is preferred over Dalot against stronger teams
  • Cavani did well during his time, as did Iglaho.
  • Varane is great when fit
  • Diallo is looking very promising right now
  • Daniel James was utilised for a very specific role and a limited player but at least we made profit off him when he moved to Leeds
  • Maguire - well I rather we had not signed him, but his stars were bright when we brought him to into the club
  • DvB - I'm not sure if this is an Ole signing; it felt like a panic signing by Murtough after a whole summer of failure
  • Telles - generally seen as a backup to Shaw
  • Sancho - he got found out, but back then he was one of the hottest prospect doing crazy numbers at Dortmund and everyone was generally super positive about his signing.
If anything, bringing a past-it Ronaldo back to Man Utd and then failing to control him was the key reason why his 3rd season gone to shite.
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Uggh... just no. Keep stuff like this in an Ole thread. Its incredible that this myth still hasn't gone extinct by now.
 
Is he going to be the last ever Manchester United manager? With the role from now on being permanently demoted down to a head coach as you all want under this "proper structure".

A head coach who works under the thumb of a Director of Football with little or no autonomy at all, outside of match day and training ground.

Exciting times.
 
foolsgold said:
I think that we're all sick of short term thinking and the constant chopping and changing of managers. Most people now realise that the problems are structural and no one manager fixes it. Erik has a lot of credit in the bank from last year, people like how he dealt with CR7 and Sancho, they are willing to give the club and the new effective owners time to put in place the correct support around him to let him do a long term job. Sacking a manager isn't going to fix poor recruitment or infrastructure problems.
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I understand that people are sick of chopping and changing but sticking with a clearly failing manager is not a strategy. In some ways our fans reflect our owners in that they are incredibly slow to recognise when something isn't going to work.

The idea that Ten Hag has a lot of credit in the bank from his handling of Ronaldo and sancho is an interesting one. Personally I find his handling of Ronaldo very overrated, pretty confident most managers would have bombed him put given he had stopped scoring. In the case of sancho I agree he couldn't be kept round after his tweet but Erik didn't need to go public with the issue and the first place and he has essentially devalued a major asset for the club

I would find listening to his many many 'standards' quite laughable when he continues to play underperformed players every weeo
 
For what it's worth I think we should stick with Ten Hag until the end of the season.

It'll take a fair chunk of time for Ineos to get the deal signed off and then make the necessary appointments. I think Ten Hag is a better option than the vast majority of available interims. Goes without saying that we need to make a change if there is no significant turn around in the new year.
 
RORY65 said:
The list of realistically available candidates looks deeply mediocre but might be better if we can hang on until the summer, our season is over already anyway. I don't think Ten Hag is the man for the job but is it worth making a change right now, before the other issues are fixed, to get Potter in or, if we're lucky, De Zerbi whose side have 2 league wins in the last 3 months.
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Yeah when you see names like Potter on that list it definitely makes you go urgh,on the other hand I have serious concerns about Erik managing us until the summer
 
Varane around town said:
For what it's worth I think we should stick with Ten Hag until the end of the season.

It'll take a fair chunk of time for Ineos to get the deal signed off and then make the necessary appointments. I think Ten Hag is a better option than the vast majority of available interims. Goes without saying that we need to make a change if there is no significant turn around in the new year.
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I think so too. From a practical point of view it's worth keeping him so the club doesn't have to pay him out of his remaining contract, then pay the wages of someone who would probably only be an interim appointment (and hardly anyone worthwhile is going to be interested in that). At least until the end of the season.
 
DRJosh said:
But what I find most perplexing is his stubbornness to persist with the same absurd team selection even when things aren’t working. I wonder if it is an ego thing …
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We don’t have too many options at the moment. Ten Hag is not to be envied currently.
 
DRJosh said:
But what I find most perplexing is his stubbornness to persist with the same absurd team selection even when things aren’t working. I wonder if it is an ego thing …
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No he's just incapable of seeing any other option. Same thing happened at Ajax, he sticks to one particular team and only changes it permanently when a forced sub does well enough.
 
Skills said:
Is he going to be the last ever Manchester United manager? With the role from now on being permanently demoted down to a head coach as you all want under this "proper structure".

A head coach who works under the thumb of a Director of Football with little or no autonomy at all, outside of match day and training ground.

Exciting times.
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One can hope.
 
Skills said:
Is he going to be the last ever Manchester United manager? With the role from now on being permanently demoted down to a head coach as you all want under this "proper structure".

A head coach who works under the thumb of a Director of Football with little or no autonomy at all, outside of match day and training ground.

Exciting times.
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Yep. There is no middle ground between a manager who does it all (including identifying targets and recruiting players) and a head coach with no autonomy.

Not like there's set ups like City, Liverpool, Newcastle or Real or Bayern or Ajax, where there's a footballing structure to support the manager.
 
Varane around town said:
For what it's worth I think we should stick with Ten Hag until the end of the season.

It'll take a fair chunk of time for Ineos to get the deal signed off and then make the necessary appointments. I think Ten Hag is a better option than the vast majority of available interims. Goes without saying that we need to make a change if there is no significant turn around in the new year.
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Mr Pigeon said:
I think so too. From a practical point of view it's worth keeping him so the club doesn't have to pay him out of his remaining contract, then pay the wages of someone who would probably only be an interim appointment (and hardly anyone worthwhile is going to be interested in that). At least until the end of the season.
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I don't know who would be an option but I'd like to not give up on the season as 5th is still a possibility
 
hobbers said:
Season isn't a write off. A competent manager could take this squad and finish top 5. Ten Hag will take it and finish 12th.

More bargain basement thinking.
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Six point of the 5th place but lets throw a season.
And we alreday played Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham, and Newcastle away.
 
VP89 said:
You didn't assume so :lol: yes you did. And yes, you can argue the same, it's even been coined on live TV by pundits, and it's even been suggested here on the forum outside of myself.

Mate, no offence but I've said many times you're wasting my time. Can you just move on? You claim I pivot my views when I have for literally years said Jose was our best performing manager. I might have argued Ten Hag had a better year 1, but that's broadly it given he's not going to have a superb year 2.

My vsnedalt point however was that most managers HAVE NOT performed better than him, and his cards dealt are worse than the ones before.

You however seem to be focused on micro debates and struggling on very simple facets, even showing astounding ignorance at how your own club woks, which honestly doesn't make this debate worthy of mine or anyone's time.
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I didn't - I already expounded on that point - you lacking the comprehension or choosing to harp on it isn't my damage, it's yours. Even some of the stuff you claim to be your ultimate points - "his cards are worse" - were never being contested. Much like your erroneou assumption that I attributed all shortcomings to simply the manager, which has never been the case. This exchange has largely been you having circular and angry arguments with yourself - so you're free to stop doing so.

On the other hand, you've also failed to substantiate your claim that objectively any other manager would fail in these circumstances. You simply lack whatever is needed to admit it is a baseless and nonsensical claim.
 
If it keeps going like this it will be untenable. And the absolutely worst thing about that is the interruption to clearing out most of the absolute wasters.
 
Can't coach a defence, can't seem to figure out that set pieces are very important to coach as well, clueless in possession..
 
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