As I said, he only used it in the bigger games which, from what I can remember, Ole had an OK record.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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As I said, he only used it in the bigger games which, from what I can remember, Ole had an OK record.
No. You don't have a message. You just repeatedly reply in an angry manner as if it adds validity to what you're saying. It doesn't. You also make stuff up - reply to it - and harp on stuff endlessly as I've showed multiple times. Learn what objectively means before making nonsensical arguments.
Stop all this angling and side-stepping fluff. If the structure isn't the same - a point I've said I'm happy to concede, despite your previous corroboration and pivot - then substantiate your assertion that you can objectively argue any manager would fail under this structure. It's simple.
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I already did, but you made daft parallels to venus.
You didn't. You made an argument based on feelings/out of thin-air and said you could argue it objectively - the exact opposite of what you did. Hence; "you asserted that it could be argued objectively that any manager would fail under this structure without foundation and/or reference points for said assertion. If you observe the surface of Venus you can see clouds, therefore it could be argued that there are dinosaurs there. It doesn’t mean it’s a salient/valid or even sensible argument."
Ultimately, this has become a boring exercise - and my stances are:
- Ten Hag is nowhere near being at the pinnacle of his profession - both in current and past performances - so the assumption that any other manager would fail, is baseless.
- Ten Hag’s tenure coinciding with ownership changes and organisational restructuring doesn’t absolve him of on-pitch results and performances, thus my position that he should go is easily explainable and justifiable.
Make of that what you will.
Times article
A sane manager probably moves to a two striker formation to at least see if it can change our ability to score goals. He doesn't even do this when he makes changes, he'll often sub out a striker for a striker.
What good is the extra winger or midfielder when we get dominated in midfield and create feck all from wide positions.
A compact 442 with two of Rashford, Hojlund and Martial could do something. It might not work but at least give it a fecking try. This is the worst attack I've ever seen at United and he's just keeping the same style, it's insanity.
What good is the extra winger or midfielder when we get dominated in midfield and create feck all from wide positions.
A compact 442 with two of Rashford, Hojlund and Martial could do something. It might not work but at least give it a fecking try. This is the worst attack I've ever seen at United and he's just keeping the same style, it's insanity.
Honestly I am fine with this. If he needs replacing do it in May and take the next six months to plan signings for the squad.
Absolutely
Mostly, yes. Most managers will end up getting sacked, average PL tenure is only 2 years. We need to stop looking at manager sacking as some terrible thing that shouldn't be done. ETH wasn't a terrible appointment, it just didn't work out. The person who hired him didn't make a mistake. The mistake would be not sacking him.
Incredible pic
Is Radcliffe going to put him out of his misery now?
I hope so. He will also help with ending our misery.
Whether he stays at the end of the season or not, I don’t want him to be involved with any signing. I want him out now, but definitely not a single moment after this miserable season is over.
I'm an ETH fan. Admittedly, if he was sacked next week, I'd understand and hope the replacement can get a tune of of these guys. But if I thought that today's news could promote change in the squads attitude and we started winning, then I'd be delighted for him to stay. I wonder if the players will be thinking they need to pull their socks up now and we see a change in attitude....same goes for ETH. Fingers crossed as I'd love him to turn this around.
The snippet from the Times article literally says no
Also, we are not sure if ETH's training methods have contributed to the injuries. We know that most of our injured players were not injured by opponents during a game, so it is reasonable to suspect that ETH's training methods have contributed to their injuries. He is stubborn about everything else, even when it doesn't work, it wouldn't surprise me if he is stubborn in his training methods, too.
If the rumours about INEOS not wanting to sack him mid-season are true, he's the luckiest manager in club football.
We want stability with all the upheaval in the background.
"you made an argument over feelings and thin air"
Christ you're bad at posting. You can't even objectively read posts and were so ignorant you lazily assumed the structure has been consistent since pre ten hag. You're honestly not worth the time, let's end this.
Your personal attacks don't change the fact you don't know what arguing something objectively means - or that you made stuff up and replied to it - or that you corroborated then pivoted regarding the structure - or that you've sidetracked and tried to hide under barbs ad nauseam - or that you've said "i'm gonna run" about 5 times now then return with more ad hominem every time.
"it can be objectively argued that any manager would fail under this structure"
please substantiate the above
"argh you're so bad at posting
"Ultimately, though you said you can argue objectively that any other manager would fail under this structure, and my stance is:
- Ten Hag is nowhere near being at the pinnacle of his profession - both in current and past performances - so the assumption that any other manager would fail, is baseless.
You can reply with another angry post - it won't change the above though.
Yes, it can be objectively argued that any manager would fail. One does not need to point to others in a a sample to support that argument. It is very obvious from the shit structure that it's not built for survival. Ten Hag has been riddled with injuries and a shit support structure that actually impacts his progress as much as his own personal mistakes.Your personal attacks don't change the fact you don't know what arguing something objectively means - or that you made stuff up and replied to it - or that you corroborated then pivoted regarding the structure - or that you've sidetracked and tried to hide under barbs ad nauseam - or that you've said "i'm gonna run" about 5 times now then return with more ad hominem every time.
"it can be objectively argued that any manager would fail under this structure"
please substantiate the above
"argh you're so bad at posting
Ultimately, though you said you can argue objectively that any other manager would fail under this structure, and my stance is:
- Ten Hag is nowhere near being at the pinnacle of his profession - both in current and past performances - so the assumption that any other manager would fail, is baseless.
You can reply with another angry post - it won't change the above though.
So for you to assume (baselessly as per form) that the performances and progress is solely on ten hag and not remotely down to circumstance is frankly, laughable.
That said, you know feck all about said structure, which is why this debate is frustrating. Now it's not hard, just don't quote me back with annoying notifications. Move on.
Didn’t know wether to write this in this thread or the Højlund thread but anyone think ETH tactics is the reason Højlund isn’t scoring goals? I just read something about Weghorst blaming ETH tactics for his lack of goals. Makes sense now… Weghorst was scoring in Turkey and Germany. ETH likes his ST to get other players involved so like the link up player. Gonna get to a point where ST won’t want to join us under ETH if they can see the pattern.
The Turkish and German competition can't be compared with the Premier League. Weghorst didn't set the world alight when he was at Burnley either and he isn't quite prolific for the Dutch national team.
Weghorst actually did get plenty of chances at United, but he was either a yard too slow or just didn't take his chances.
May play a part, but in Weghorst's case I think he was just remarkably shit and had scored goals in leagues that are also shit.
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Your argument has no basis in reality outside of "circumstances aren't favourable for/it is extremely hard for Ten Hag". It's nothing but you feeling these circumstances are insurmountable - you are unable to establish a foundation or make use of reference points to justify the notion that any other manager would fail - even more so because, again, we are speaking of Ten Hag - who is by all means still an up-and coming manager with nothing but titles in a relatively minor league. To extrapolate that any other manager would fail is completely baseless.
Please don't side-step this - where did I do so? Keep in mind I've stated this in our conversation:
You anchored all your hopes on this and it's hilarious to see you dying on this hill. Organisational structure isn't changed at the press of a button - I said we've seen managers perform better under the same structure, because, quite frankly, I don't believe much in the way United operates has changed. This has been reported widely - with said DoF pretty much still acquiescing to a lot of wishes/requests from the manager. You understood this, hence you expounding on my post with your addition about failing managers - but then you pivoted to the fact that new positions have been created and Ten Hag is now working under a new DoF (as well as CEO) - with uncertainty regarding their long-term job prospects. I said, fine, I'll concede the structure has changed - something you don't seem able to move on from - mind that DoF -> Manager is something a substantial number of people have argued in favour of.
When is Ten Hag supposed to be evaluated? He has the structural change(s) that others didn't, he has been backed with funds others weren't. Does it have to be an ideal scenario in which he doesn't have an injury crisis and has best in-slot DoF? And if so, is it carte blanche until then?
I'm going to be honest, I no longer read your nonsense posts from the last reply, you've already outed yourself as knowing little. It's a waste of characters at this point.
And I've anchored nothing on ten hag. I think he's sackable like anyone else.
There’s worse ST that score goals in the prem though.
Yeah, because the club is SO stable with him at the helm!
The person who hired him obviously made a mistake if you believe he should be sacked after 18 months
I hope he is given to the end of the season. He has had a number of injuries to deal with, the most of any manager. The only club who comes close to the number of injuries we have are Newcastle, and look how much they are struggling. But when I hear about Newcastles struggles, I mostly hear about how many players they have out injured. Yet the same logic is never applied to us.
I still think that he's the right manager for us. We need to build the right structure around and above him to give him the platform to succeed. There aren't better managers outside than him. Stick with him and help him to get us better.
Yet our attack is injury free and looks utterly toothless. I simply don't buy that a long term injury to Martinez or Casemiro equals us not being able to lay a glove on Moyes' West Ham or Bournemouth.
How? His tactics don't work and he's stubborn to the point of insanity.
The excuses people make for him is amazing.
I love Ole and Jose. Yes, we hit the wall. But under those two, I always had a feeling that we could beat anyone. Us against the world.
Ten Hag appears soulless, charmless, a tactical monster who is completely incapable of winning us points. I watch every game without any hope whatsoever - except for an acceptable loss.
Yes, I despise the management, the Glaziers have to go. But I have never dreaded a match more, been apathetic and more cursed than when I watch United today.
Ten Hag appears completely ignorant and helpless. And thats sad. But he has to go.
Ten Hag appears soulless, charmless, a tactical monster who is completely incapable of winning us points. I watch every game without any hope whatsoever - except for an acceptable loss.
Yes, I despise the management, the Glaziers have to go. But I have never dreaded a match more, been apathetic and more cursed than when I watch United today.
Ten Hag appears completely ignorant and helpless. And thats sad. But he has to go.
You can’t argue objectively that all managers would fail under Murtough really mate, though I agree they wouldn’t necessarily be helped by him at all.
Kind of depressing about the state of the club when there doesn't seem to be the slightest pressure on Ten Hag for his own job when the team lost 8 out of the first 18 games and lying 8th in the table beside being out of League Cup and out of CL being bottom of the group, yet zero news or reports about any sort of pressure on his position. There was more pressure on Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole than this, and neither of them were as bad as this comes the end of their tenure.
We lost 8 games in the first half of the season.. Eight! We are on the course of finishing the league with 15 or 16 losses which is gonna be a record. The most we lost in a PL season was 12 games and we already lost 8 by December this year. Can you imagine this?
Yet everything is pointing to him staying till the end of the season. More importantly, some fans seem to be content with this as well.
Hopeless situation.
We lost 8 games in the first half of the season.. Eight! We are on the course of finishing the league with 15 or 16 losses which is gonna be a record. The most we lost in a PL season was 12 games and we already lost 8 by December this year. Can you imagine this?
Yet everything is pointing to him staying till the end of the season. More importantly, some fans seem to be content with this as well.
Hopeless situation.
In all fairness there are more important things happening right now. He will be dealt with if and when necessary.
Agree. Its just another excuse used by his defenders to defend the inexcuseable. I dont think he needs to spend another GDP of a small country just to make our GD positive. He is just incompetent buffoon and the faster he's given his notice the better we are. We could play another extra 90 mins against WH but I dont see us scoring any goals.
There is no if about it, he is failing to such a degree there isnl chance of him turning it around
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