Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Big Ben Foster]

Ten Hag deserves more time. It might get to a point when managers of his calibre will find United too problematic or too unattractive a destination. I hope it does not come to that. But I also think that the situation is hopeless.

Why would that happen? Is there any precedent for it?

 

[Yakuza_devils]

That's hindsight, massively. Their style was as inconsistent as their results. At times the 'gegenpress' looked like a load of clueless running and hoofing. He was getting ripped to shreds on here and RAWK fell to pieces over it time and time again.

The same is true of Arteta at Arsenal. We all knew he would pursue a Pep-esque style of football, but for a long time there was no actual discernible style to what they were doing on the pitch. There never really is when a team are playing badly.

The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results, as the saying goes. When will people learn that changing managers when one has a bad season is never going to yield results. We've tried most different kinds of managers now: a pragmatic PL vet, an old European master, a big-name 'winner', an old player who understands the traditions of the club, and now a young European with modern coaching ideas. How many more 'types' of manager can we write off in hindsight as a bad idea before we recognise that it's not the type of manager that is the problem, it's our inability to grit our teeth and stick with them through the inevitable hurdles of trying to turn this fecking supertanker of a club around.

For Liverpool it's not hindsight, Klopp massively improved them even though the results were inconsistent. Liverpool was in need of bigger rebuild at that stage than us but Klopp sticked to his style of play and never abandoned it at any stage. For Liverpool due to limited budget (much less than us) the rebuild had to be gradual. Liverpool style of play was totally transformed under Klopp. It was much more entertaining than Liverpool used to play before Klopp. There were good signs and clear direction. Klopp and Pep was the manager introduced modern style of play at PL.

Arteta I will give you that, very few people saw it coming especially their results were much worse than what Klopp achieve in his first few seasons. For some reason no one take him seriously because people just see him as Lego Pep. But up to now he has not won anything major like Klopp did, so it's not comparable.

I'm not saying we should sack ETH now, but we have the right to criticise him after spending almost half a billion and play counter attacking football with non-existent midfield. After this season and hopefully when Ratcliffe comes in, if there was no improvement, surely we should look for improvement?

 

[croadyman]

He definitely values favoritism over actual performances. Guaranteeing that a keeper who has made a number of mistakes will start the next CL game says volumes. So much for the supposed standards.

Yeah Bayindir must be thinking oh so he only wants me when Onana is at AFCON, charming. Any kind of favouritism towards players will cause issue in dressing room

 

[anant]

For a start, he finished higher in the league than all three of those did in their first seasons and won a trophy. He also has a win rate significantly higher than any of them.

He's been dealing with so much more shit than any of them ever had to either, eg. Ronaldo, Sancho, Greenwood.

But more than that, most of us are at the point now where we realise that solely blaming the manager for the club's footballing failures is futile, as is changing the manager every two years.

He finished 3rd - same as what Ole did in his 1st full season at the club. LC win, for me, doesn't mean anything as it has a lot to do with the luck of the draw as well. And I dont think many people were asking for his sacking last season, despite them not being happy with some of his decisions.

Ronaldo apart, the personnel challenges started before him - Greenwood or were self-inflicted - Sancho. I dont think he should have made his unhappiness public. If this was a repeated offence, I'm not sure why he wasn't sold off in the summer! I also, wasn't a fan of Maguire's treatment, but am glad he has come back stronger.

There are a lot of structural challenges that sacking EtH won't solve - for example giving them all the freedom to sign and sell whoever they want. However, the question is whether 1. Is EtH getting the most out of this squad? and 2. Is there a coherent plan in EtH's mind on how he wants to play?
And I think the answer to both the questions is no.

I dont think anything much will change if we sack EtH though - the board will hire a manager whose style is very different from EtH, and they'll require 2 summers to make the side their own, and the cycle will go on. While this is a major reason why I'm not EtH out and sitting on the fence, I can completely understand people who are demanding EtH's sacking

 

[AndySmith1990]

Ten Hag deserves more time. It might get to a point when managers of his calibre will find United too problematic or too unattractive a destination. I hope it does not come to that. But I also think that the situation is hopeless.

His calibre? He's achieved nothing outside of a crap Dutch league. We're Manchester United. We'll continue to attract more accomplished managers long after Ten Hag is gone. I have no idea why some think this guy is the best we can do. It's bloody weird to have such low standards for one of the world's biggest football clubs

 

[MoskvaRed]

Ten Hag deserves more time. It might get to a point when managers of his calibre will find United too problematic or too unattractive a destination. I hope it does not come to that. But I also think that the situation is hopeless.

You are over-selling Ten Hag. United took a gamble on a relatively unproven manager to see whether he could make the step up from Dutch league to premier league. So far, it’s not looking too good and he has a huge amount to prove (even taking into account United’s dysfunctional structure).

 

[Brightonian]

For Liverpool it's not hindsight, Klopp massively improved them even though the results were inconsistent. Liverpool was in need of bigger rebuild at that stage than us but Klopp sticked to his style of play and never abandoned it at any stage. For Liverpool due to limited budget (much less than us) the rebuild had to be gradual. Liverpool style of play was totally transformed under Klopp. It was much more entertaining than Liverpool used to play before Klopp. There were good signs and clear direction. Klopp and Pep was the manager introduced modern style of play at PL.

Seeing nothing here to change my mind that you're looking with masses of hindsight. Yes, there were good signs. But there was turmoil, some absolute stinker performances and statistical evidence of a team which didn't know how it should play yet. And an 8th-place finish.

 

[el3mel]

Ten Hag deserves more time. It might get to a point when managers of his calibre will find United too problematic or too unattractive a destination. I hope it does not come to that. But I also think that the situation is hopeless.

Huh ? Ten Hag is 53 years old coach whose best achievement came in Eredivisie. For example, Klopp is 3 years older and has Champions League, Premier League and Bundesliga in his trophy cabinet. When Mourinho was 50 years old he was a CL winner twice with ton of league titles in his pocket. Let's not speak about Guardiola.

Ten Hag has done nothing in his career so far.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Huh ? Ten Hag is 53 years old coach whose best achievement came in Eredivisie. For example, Klopp is 3 years older and has Champions League, Premier League and Bundesliga in his trophy cabinet. When Mourinho was 50 years old he was a CL winner twice with ton of league titles in his pocket. Let's not speak about Guardiola.

Ten Hag has done nothing in his career so far.

Those managers you listed have been managing a lot longer than ten Hag has. The guy has been a manager for about ten years and two of those years he coached Bayern Munich II. Do you really believe that he's achieved nothing in football? He won multiple Eredivisie titles and took Ajax to the semi finals of the CL beating Real Madrid along the way. Finished 3rd in the PL last season winning a League Cup and reaching the FA Cup final only to lose to the treble winners. He's achieved a lot.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

Huh ? Ten Hag is 53 years old coach whose best achievement came in Eredivisie. For example, Klopp is 3 years older and has Champions League, Premier League and Bundesliga in his trophy cabinet. When Mourinho was 50 years old he was a CL winner twice with ton of league titles in his pocket. Let's not speak about Guardiola.

Ten Hag has done nothing in his career so far.

The desire from many to constantly compare him to Klopp does him no favours, as it didnt Ole

 

[el3mel]

Those managers you listed have been managing a lot longer than ten Hag has. The guy has been a manager for about ten years and two of those years he coached Bayern Munich II. Do you really believe that he's achieved nothing in football?

Do you realize how much the likes of Mourinho and Guardiola achieved in ten years time span ?

Do you really believe that he's achieved nothing in football? He won multiple Eredivisie titles and took Ajax to the semi finals of the CL beating Real Madrid along the way. Finished 3rd in the PL last season winning a League Cup and reaching the FA Cup final only to lose to the treble winners. He's achieved a lot.

Eredivisie ? League Cup ? Fa Cup final ? Achieved a lot ? Are you actually serious ?

The only thing worthy to be mentioned is the CL semi, something Jardim achieved with Monaco, and I doubt anyone will consider Jardim an elite.

 

[AndySmith1990]

The desire from many to constantly compare him to Klopp does him no favours, as it didnt Ole

How are we ever going to get back to the top of the league & ever win the CL if we have staff & players who can't be compared to the best in the sport?

 

[el3mel]

The desire from many to constantly compare him to Klopp does him no favours, as it didnt Ole

His defenders actually compare him to Klopp more than anyone here, telling us Klopp finished 8th, 4th or something before achieving success so we should wait for Ten Hag to achieve the same, so when we actually do compare them regarding achievements, it's wrong ?

 

[Yakuza_devils]

Seeing nothing here to change my mind that you're looking with masses of hindsight. Yes, there were good signs. But there was turmoil, some absolute stinker performances and statistical evidence of a team which didn't know how it should play yet. And an 8th-place finish.

You are entitled to your opinion. As I said, it's not hindsight. There were a lot people including football experts and pundits saw what was Klopp building then.

For ETH, after half a billion and 2nd year here, no one really knows what is his style of play. It's night and day.

 

[erikcred]

How are we ever going to get back to the top of the league & ever win the CL if we have staff & players who can't be compared to the best in the sport?

Then the people hired and signed should put in performances worthy of being compared to the best. We shouldn't have to use mental gymnastics to make these comparisons.

"But Fergie took 6 years to win the league", ignoring the fact that this is probably the greatest manager of all fecking time. What are the chances United get two managers of that calibre within 10 years of each other?

"But Klopp finished 8th in his first season", ignoring the fact that they did the double over City that season with a 7-1 aggregate score and fecking knocked us out of the Europa League that season on the way to a final.

And my new favorite:

"But if you ignore the howlers how good has he been, the second best keeper in the league". Second best? Really, he's better than at least one of Allison and Ederson? No, but statistically....

 

[baskinginthesun]

I've been really pleased with ETH's response to the Galatasaray result.

• Front and centre, he took direct responsibility.
• He rightly pointed out the overall continuing improved performances, and the fact that we ought to have won.
• He also rightly did not just let the players get away scot-free. 'I was pleased with how we played but at the same time I have to criticise the team because the defending is not good enough. We are leading 3-1 and we cannot afford mistakes as it makes a difference.'
• The language is critical, but constructively: demanding improvement, not laying blame. 'Everyone has to step up and take responsibility of their own mistakes.'
• He accepts that the results in the CL have simply not been good enough.
• Publicly, he refuses to blame an individual player, particularly when that is what everyone else is doing. He defends Ohana's overall performances ('If you analyse it well then you see he is the second-best goalkeeper in the Premier League based on stats').
• He acknowledges Onana's mistakes in the CL, he asserts his belief in his strength of character and ability to respond well.
• It doesn't actually matter if he's right - the point is you don't openly blame individual players for results, and when externally your player is getting heat, you defend them. Fergie always did it and it's the right thing to do. Mourinho, notably amongst all our post-Fergie managers, did not.

It's great that he took responsibility but, what is he going to do about it? Playing the same tactics with the same players and getting opened up for fun isn't taking responsibility. He can demand improvement all he wants but, unless he's actually changing how he drives this improvement then this all just sounds good with a camera in your face.

 

[Reddevildans]

My problem with replacing him is a replacement that is guaranteed success within a few seasons of coming in. There's literally nobody with the quality of doing that around. Imo we have the best two managers in the world in pep and klopp currently in the same league. Yes they'll be one that may come in and win a league cup/fa cup but they won't be winning the ucl or league while these two are around.
Outside of England we have ancelloti, simone and tuchel who've had success but they don't inspire me long term.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't be seeing a style implemented or good attacking football in the meantime. We look so disorganised sometimes it's frightening. He has been severely underwhelming.

 

[Tom Van Persie]

Do you realize how much the likes of Mourinho and Guardiola achieved in ten years time span ?



Eredivisie ? League Cup ? Fa Cup final ? Achieved a lot ? Are you actually serious ?

The only thing worthy to be mentioned is the CL semi, something Jardim achieved with Monaco, and I doubt anyone will consider Jardim an elite.

Ok so you've made your mind up that managing in the Eredivisie and winning titles there is worth shit. ten Hag has managed one season outside of that league (except for Bayern II) so what exactly is he supposed to achieve then? How can you possibly compare him to Pep who managed Barca as his first job in management? A lot of managers would kill for ten Hag's résumé. He has achieved a lot, not as much as the likes of Klopp or Mourinho but it's apples and oranges. Every managers career path is different. Who knows what he will go on to win in the future.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

It doesn't actually matter if he's right - the point is you don't openly blame individual players for results, and when externally your player is getting heat, you defend them. Fergie always did it and it's the right thing to do. Mourinho, notably amongst all our post-Fergie managers, did not.

Yeah, this (obviously).

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Ok so you've made your mind up that managing in the Eredivisie and winning titles there is worth shit. ten Hag has managed one season outside of that league (except for Bayern II) so what exactly is he supposed to achieve then? How can you possibly compare him to Pep who managed Barca as his first job in management? A lot of managers would kill for ten Hag's résumé. He has achieved a lot, not as much as the likes of Klopp or Mourinho but it's apples and oranges. Every managers career path is different. Who knows what he will go on to win in the future.

In context of the conversation that's being quoted, I think the point is that a manager who comes in with a less stellar CV has less goodwill and much more to prove than somebody like Klopp or Pep. A point that the people making references to their first seasons in charge conveniently forget.

 

[Strangest Tribe]

What’s that from?

you are from the US and need to ask that question? Don’t they teach history in school there ?

 

[NLunited]

you are from the US and need to ask that question? Don’t they teach history in school there ?

I‘m Dutch. And, history might not be taught that well in the US.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I‘m Dutch. And, history might not be taught that well in the US.

To answer your question, I think it comes from a comedian but I'm not sure. It's a reference to the assassination of President Abraham Lincoln, which took place at a play he was watching with his wife and some Cabinet members.

 

[kidbob]

He's not blame free but look at the squad today and tell me if any other top team would have kept so many of this players playing for them. Most of them are even from before ETH got here. AWB, Maguire, Dalot, McTominay and Martial all in our starting line up when they would have been sold by any top 6 club years ago. VDB, Lindelof and Pellistri all on the bench too. That's 8 players who everyone knows have no future here yet at Man United are allowed to stink the place up indefinitely.

 

[Black Adder]

Time to win big match!

 

[Overhaul FC]

Can't believe he's frozen out Rafa Varane.

That's unbelievable irrespective of whether he's had injuries.

 

[el3mel]

Ok so you've made your mind up that managing in the Eredivisie and winning titles there is worth shit. ten Hag has managed one season outside of that league (except for Bayern II) so what exactly is he supposed to achieve then? How can you possibly compare him to Pep who managed Barca as his first job in management? A lot of managers would kill for ten Hag's résumé. He has achieved a lot, not as much as the likes of Klopp or Mourinho but it's apples and oranges. Every managers career path is different. Who knows what he will go on to win in the future.

The fact he's 53 years old with nearly 10 years of management time and that's the first time for him to manage outside Netherlands says more than enough but his resume. The point that you doesn't seem to understand is that poster was saying "manager of such caliber". What caliber does Ten Hag have exactly ? He's basically still a no name in football trying to prove himself and the fact he's doing it at 53 is pretty bad actually. This reminds me of people telling us Ole is a young manager when he's 50 years old with 10 years experience in which his best achievements came in Norway!

A lot of managers would kill for ten Hag's résumé. He has achieved a lot, not as much as the likes of Klopp or Mourinho but it's apples and oranges.

No elite manager will kill to win Eredivisie or League cup, which is the point of the discussion. If Ten Hag retired tomorrow, where would this Eredivisa and League Cup titles put him in the elite managers ranks ?

Every managers career path is different. Who knows what he will go on to win in the future.

No issue, but don't come and tell us he's an elite manager or "managers of such caliber will refuse to manage us again" like that other poster who said it when Ten Hag has done feck all yet and still in the point of proving if he can even do it at the top level.

Saying things like these make us look like we should be grateful Ten Hag agreed to manage us while it should be Ten Hag who thanks us for giving him an opportunity to make a name for himself at the highest level possible.

 

[quiet_united]

The fact that he has no solution to fix our build ups up until this point of the season is a major concern.

 

[GMoore23]

Result aside, we're being totally outplayed again.

 

[Yoro99]

I’m sick of this backs to wall football that Ten Hag and every manager post fergie has had us playing. It’s so depressing.

 

[Castia]

Best example yet of a team with a system and style against our system which is non existent

 

[rajds89]

Man for man, this Man Utd XI is better than this Newcastle team. Watching this though, it's not hard to see which team is being coached and as such, is playing as a cohesive team. It's hard to watch.

 

[Manncunian]

Bringing Rashford into the team again off the back of multiple lazy lacklustre performances, and at the expense of Antony who had an excellent game on Wednesday, is questionable to say the least.

Piss poor management if you ask me.

 

[DWelbz19]

Extremely embarrassing so far. We play like a relegation threatened side against any major team in the PL

 

[dannyrhinos89]

Questionable team selection.....again.

 

[mikeyt]

For me (and I may be proved wrong), the line up is so off what you'd want at Newcastle. You want energy, commitment, the ball to stick when played forward, yet he plays Rashford and Martial. Dalot is a liability defensively too so surely you'd be playing Shaw at full back and Varane.

Hope he proves me wrong but it just feels like the wrong lien up for this type of game

 

[kidbob]

Questionable team selection.....again.

It's a hard choice when every player you have to choose from is shite.

 

[AndySmith1990]

It's a hard choice when every player you have to choose from is shite.

Whose fault is that

 

[Samid]

This is how cannon fodders get destroyed at Anfield and Etihad.

 

[KeanoMagicHat]

People blame Casemiro for being finished, yet Mainoo is playing well relatively and even he still can't stop the midfield from being completely overrun. I'm not sure Rodri or anyone in world football could. That's a tactical and system issue then, it's like a super open 4-1-4-1 that you'd set up for a team that dominates the ball, yet picks players like McTominay who hide from the ball in possession and Bruno who plays a killer pass each time. We just get outplayed all the time, it's embarrassing. The results actually aren't even as bad as they could be, relative to the majority of the performances. That's damning on the manager.