Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[Andycoleno9]

I am very happy that we are grinding win after win (because results come first) but the thing which worries me very much is that i have zero confidence right now for big games. With our current playing style Newcastle and Liverpool away will be brutal to watch. For those games you need far more than we are showing right now.

As i said earlier; Erik's current plan is to survive and win games at any cost. He put all his plans regarding general play aside. In a short term it gets benefits but in a long run it will be very costly.

 

[pascell]

We must win all those games, though. We need points

We scraped past Luton, Sheffield Utd and Fulham and you're saying we must win them all of these games? There's no chance.

 

[Tony247]

Oh look it’s the leader of the ‘Shaw & Martinez will transform the team’ brigade. Didn’t look very transformative today when Everton were running all over us creating chance after chance. But hey, this is the exactly the kind of post we’ve come to expect from you. You love to attack posters that you disagree with rather then engage in any kind of actual discussion. You’re just an awful and unnecessarily aggressive poster. Hardly comes as a surprise though given your day job.

If people want to stick their heads in the sand and get giddy over a few barely deserved wins over the teams in 19th, 17th & 15th place over the past few weeks then knock yourselves out. But the next few weeks are going to come as a big shock to you because if performances don’t improve substantially, it could get very messy indeed.

Ok. More reason to enjoy the win then, right?

 

[Alemar]

We scraped past Luton, Sheffield Utd and Fulham and you're saying we must win them all of these games? There's no chance.

We are just Lisandro and Casemiro away from a relatively decent side

 

[Zed is not dead]

Did we lose 3-0 to Everton? Because reading the threads today surely feel like we did

 

[romufc]

Ah well, it was nice being only 6 points behind the top for a while

Yep, we are not going to be 6 points behind for very long. We have very difficult games coming up, we could be in a real top 4 dog fight and out the CL.

 

[Oranges038]

The only "chance" we created in the entire first half was Garnacho's goal.

It was a good result, but the performance itself was shambolic. Everton had 24 shots on goal, compared to our 9. The only improvement yesterday on recent weeks were we took our limited chances when they came, but the organisation, ball retention, chance creation and patterns of play with all as non-existent as they have been for months.

It's all well and good beating the likes of Everton, Brentford, Luton, Fulham etc but the manager will quite rightly by judged by how the team performs in the big games, against better opposition - we'll see how he fares this month.

I personally think he's way out of his depth and we'll see a few seriously questionable performances/results against the likes of Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelsea and Villa.

Not really a great metric to use without context. Nearly half of those were shots from well outside the box.

 

[Oranges038]

Did we lose 3-0 to Everton? Because reading the threads today surely feel like we did

Hammered, James Garner was the best midfielder on the pitch and Ashley Young scored a superb over head kick.

 

[golden_blunder]

The only "chance" we created in the entire first half was Garnacho's goal.

It was a good result, but the performance itself was shambolic. Everton had 24 shots on goal, compared to our 9. The only improvement yesterday on recent weeks were we took our limited chances when they came, but the organisation, ball retention, chance creation and patterns of play with all as non-existent as they have been for months.

It's all well and good beating the likes of Everton, Brentford, Luton, Fulham etc but the manager will quite rightly by judged by how the team performs in the big games, against better opposition - we'll see how he fares this month.

I personally think he's way out of his depth and we'll see a few seriously questionable performances/results against the likes of Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelsea and Villa.

We were fortunate that we scored first. The longer it has gone 0-0 I think we’d have been panicky and Everton would have grown more confident. As it was, we could go into the second half and finish the job. 3 points in the bag and hopefully a confidence shot

 

[Borys]

Not really a great metric to use without context. Nearly half of those were shots from well outside the box.

xGA on the level of 2,4 does tell you the story though.

 

[Oranges038]

xGA on the level of 2,4 does tell you the story though.

Utd had 2.2xg from what I saw. Everton had 2.4xg. The main concern for me would be that they had 4 attempts inside the 6 yard box.

But Utd won 3-0. That's all that really matters.

 

[cyberman]

The only "chance" we created in the entire first half was Garnacho's goal.

It was a good result, but the performance itself was shambolic. Everton had 24 shots on goal, compared to our 9. The only improvement yesterday on recent weeks were we took our limited chances when they came, but the organisation, ball retention, chance creation and patterns of play with all as non-existent as they have been for months.

It's all well and good beating the likes of Everton, Brentford, Luton, Fulham etc but the manager will quite rightly by judged by how the team performs in the big games, against better opposition - we'll see how he fares this month.

I personally think he's way out of his depth and we'll see a few seriously questionable performances/results against the likes of Newcastle, Liverpool, Chelsea and Villa.

How many big teams do you think are in this league?
I’ll be honest this is a weird metric, if Ten Hag gets out of those games unscathed you’ll find another set of fixtures to judge him by.

 

[Berbaclass]

I see a few similarities in the build up to the first goal in the Copenhagen goal and the first yesterday which is good.

 

[el3mel]

Despite our general awful performance I think it's pretty good that we, for once, managed to benefit from a piss easy run and win most of our games. Now we are hitting another difficult run and no doubt we will get some good thrashing as we are used to but at least we have a good coverage of points before starting such run.

Credit for the team managing to grind such results.

 

[sugar_kane]

To still be in touching distance of top spot with the apocalyptic (according to the media) start we've had is positive.

We've got a tough run coming up now, but we've also got Mainoo and Shaw back which is massive and confidence is building. Hopefully we can get Martinez back soon as well.

Going away to a fired up and angry Everton and not wilting but winning with a convincing scoreline is significant progress.

 

[nakpodiareuben]

Did we lose 3-0 to Everton? Because reading the threads today surely feel like we did

This is the exact reason I hate thread here. We just won 0:3:at Goodison park on an emotional day for everton just after the intl break. We saw a great cameo from one of the future great at this club and we scored a goal that will be remembered for decades and some ETH out brigade are pouring out hate.

Oh yeah, we are six point from topping the league.

Liverpool had few injuries last season and they finished outside the top 4.

 

[SER19]

Throwing Mainoo in away at Goodison for his first start was a gutsy call. Deserves huge credit to be on 5 wins from 6 with this extent of injuries. We have to just stay in touch and hope we get a healthy squad

 

[Ricardo de la Vega]

Should win manager of the month for November, only team to win 3/3 games.

Form team in the division. Feels strange.

 

[Borys]

Utd had 2.2xg from what I saw. Everton had 2.4xg. The main concern for me would be that they had 4 attempts inside the 6 yard box.

But Utd won 3-0. That's all that really matters.

You don't get xG 2,4 from taking long range shots. Very clearly we were poor defensively/off the ball, that's just a fact on top of (very) good result.

Often mentioned "we're playing poorly but getting results" is a very strange argument apparently in favour of ETH.

 

[Jeffthered]

We are just Lisandro and Casemiro away from a relatively decent side

Thing is, I would agree with that. But, Casimero has had a dreadful start to the season and I am not sure I want a fit Casimero in the side. He needs to apply himself, so I would hope (but am not convinced..) ETH would be getting into Casimero. Martinez may need some time when he returns, but yes, he makes a big difference to our quality, and he is a decisive player, which we lack. We miss his mentality as much as anything. Shaw made a big difference yesterday.

But... we still haven't a functioning forward line and/or attacking unit, and that's the thing. Against the better teams, we are relatively easy to defend against. That's a huge problem. We can't rely on crazy-amazingly-good goals. We need Rasmus, Rashford, Mount, Bruno to start playing as a coherent unit and there has been little evidence of this happening so far, so it isn't easy to be confident against the better teams, with better midfielders, defenders and attackers.

I don't think we can rely on Martial, nor Antony, realistically. Sancho is gone.

 

[Oranges038]

You don't get xG 2,4 from taking long range shots. Very clearly we were poor defensively/off the ball, that's just a fact on top of (very) good result.

Often mentioned "we're playing poorly but getting results" is a very strange argument apparently in favour of ETH.

Almost half of their shots were long range efforts and most of them were off target. They had about 6 shots on target in the game, 2 more than Utd had from 15 less shots.

The chances they had inside the 6 yard box, mostly from set pieces, would be more concerning to me than the long range efforts. Their 4 or 5 best chances came from around the 6 yard box, that would have contributed more to their xg than any of the long distance efforts.

 

[Lentwood]

Well seems like improvement is coming from players performance (Onana, Mainoo) plus flashes of brilliance like we saw yesterday. I don't think we're really are following any plan at the moment (McTominay as key player suggests that to me) but ETH deserves time as clearly most of the buildup by design should come from 3 players that have been missing until now (Shaw, Martinez and maybe even Mainoo).

I have been critical of ETHs tactics but all I want to see, for now, is some kind of consistency of thinking and ideas being demonstrated on the pitch.

The performance against Everton wasn't great overall but there were signs of how we want to create space and attack, especially with the first goal - even if it did take a wonder finish to convert a pretty poor cross from Dalot.

As you say, I think we have to allow ETH some slack for our ponderous buildup this season as the likes of Shaw, Martinez, Mainoo, Casemiro and Mount (+ Eriksen) would all have been integral to that, and all have been injured for extended periods.

 

[DRJosh]

As ETH places increasing faith in youngsters, it will become more evident that certain members of the supposed ‘old guard’ will need to improve or risk being embarrassingly exposed. After seeing Mainoo, Garnacho, Daniel Gore, Hannibal and even Hojlund in action at senior and youth levels, I feel the answer lies in our youth system. Not the overpaid mercenaries at our club.


Rashford, despite his goal scoring exploits in past seasons, is not in the right head space to be a United player and never was - football seems like a chore for him especially when it involves tracking back and applying the effort. Casemiro and Varane are past their best and stealing a living. MCT isn’t as all-rounded in midfield as he needs to be and doesn’t progress the ball in any purposeful fashion. Maguire’s good run of form will not last I suspect. Antony is overrated in every way. Dalot has his positive moments but largely underwhelming both positionally and technically. Martial is well Martial.

Onana, Shaw, AWB and Bruno are perhaps the only senior players I’d want us to keep.

 

[Alemar]

Thing is, I would agree with that. But, Casimero has had a dreadful start to the season and I am not sure I want a fit Casimero in the side.

A fit Casemiro would be the second player on the team sheet - right after Onana. And his envisaged partnership with Mainoo in the middle of the park may be transformational - especially if we also have Lisandro (and thus a CB able to beat the press and control the ball).

 

[Borys]

Almost half of their shots were long range efforts and most of them were off target. They had about 6 shots on target in the game, 2 more than Utd had from 15 less shots.

The chances they had inside the 6 yard box, mostly from set pieces, would be more concerning to me than the long range efforts. Their 4 or 5 best chances came from around the 6 yard box, that would have contributed more to their xg than any of the long distance efforts.

Almost half meaning most of the shots were mid to short range efforts what is not good right?
The second bolded part is THE problem.

I think we pretty much agree on everything here.

I have been critical of ETHs tactics but all I want to see, for now, is some kind of consistency of thinking and ideas being demonstrated on the pitch.

The performance against Everton wasn't great overall but there were signs of how we want to create space and attack, especially with the first goal - even if it did take a wonder finish to convert a pretty poor cross from Dalot.

As you say, I think we have to allow ETH some slack for our ponderous buildup this season as the likes of Shaw, Martinez, Mainoo, Casemiro and Mount (+ Eriksen) would all have been integral to that, and all have been injured for extended periods.

Well yeah, it's very clear for example we're using one of the midfielders as a second striker - also visible in the mentioned Garnacho goal. If I had to explain our setup to somebody I'd say we're pushing bodies forward (Dalot underlapping and has been playing very high all game, McTominay arrives in the box when the cross comes). That is IMO a gameplan that will get us killed against any serious opponent that can finish chances, and I think once Martinez, Casemiro and Mount are back we will need to start building a team from scratch. Anyway, ETH survived a difficult period, players are coming back from injuries so I guess there's a lot of positives, but performance against Everton is not one of them.

 

[NLunited]

I also have mixed impressions about this game. I think the posters who say Ten Hag is grinding out results are right. We are also scoring good goals which show what Ten Hag wants. Putting a few good attacks together is not enough though, to stay in CL.

Concerning is the lack of composure in midfield and defense: this cannot be blamed on injuries. It looks like we just fail at some point carrying out what we are supposed to do, with players not acting as a unit.

Positives: Mainoo is going to be super important for us, he is press resistant and seems to play without any pressure, despite being so young.

 

[RedRocket08]

As ETH places increasing faith in youngsters, it will become more evident that certain members of the supposed ‘old guard’ will need to improve or risk being embarrassingly exposed. After seeing Mainoo, Garnacho, Daniel Gore, Hannibal and even Hojlund in action at senior and youth levels, I feel the answer lies in our youth system. Not the overpaid mercenaries at our club.


Rashford, despite his goal scoring exploits in past seasons, is not in the right head space to be a United player and never was - football seems like a chore for him especially when it involves tracking back and applying the effort. Casemiro and Varane are past their best and stealing a living. MCT isn’t as all-rounded in midfield as he needs to be and doesn’t progress the ball in any purposeful fashion. Maguire’s good run of form will not last I suspect. Antony is overrated in every way. Dalot has his positive moments but largely underwhelming both positionally and technically. Martial is well Martial.

Onana, Shaw, AWB and Bruno are perhaps the only senior players I’d want us to keep.

Agree with you on our youth set up - We paid a fair bit for Amad, and he's a decent player, why not see what he can do?

I would keep Case and Varane at least one more season though, while they're both out of form right now they both played well for the team and are good personalities for the team - add in a young CB and CDM next season, and get the 2 experienced serial winners to mentor Kobbie and the aforementioned summer buys. McTom is not a terrible squad option, surely not worse than Phillips at City I feel, but shouldn't be a regular starter.

New younger CDM, Kobbie, Mount (I do expect him to return to his best), Bruno as starters with back up from Case (could of course start if he's fit enough), McTom, Gore and another youth player next year are good options going forward. ,

New younger CB, Varane/Maguire, Licha/Victor I think is enough for next season at least.

Forwards - Rashford and Antony are out of form but I think they can be given a bit more time to come good, but they both need to step up. We've also got Garnacho as a mainstay (LW) and Pellistri (RW) as a back up, I would also see what Amad can do this season. Rasmus only currently has martial as cover, so I'd look at recalling Greenwood (Controversial maybe, but I mean if we don't give him a second chance, another top club will) and getting an experienced striker in January (loan deal, reasonable wages) to ease the pressure in that position.

Get rid - Sancho (Unless he wants to be a United player and is willing to work with his manager and produces better performances on the pitch) + Martial (Nothing against the guy, but I don't think he's capable of being that experienced striker that eases the pressure on Hojlund/Mason when he's injured so often). Eriksen and Sofyan also need to go - We should look at loan replacements for both.

Ins: New young CDM (Mould of Camavinga), New young CB (Todibo maybe), Experienced CF (Loan), a technical midfielder for the number 8 role (Loan), experienced CDM (Loan)

Outs: Martial (End of contract), Sancho (Sold to the highest bidder), Eriksen, Sofyan, probably Donny as well.

If we do have the money for it, maybe we go for an experienced Striker who's 27-28 via a transfer (Rather than a loan) that can give 2 years to United, that we can sell on for a decent fee once Hojlund/Mason are ready to lead. This United are not necessarily a bad team imo and I feel like we tend to judge our players quite harshly compared to others (Mainly because we've spent large fees) - A younger team takes the pressure of playing for United/ pressure of the price tag down a notch, but also solves our 'expensive-toxic-mercenary-one-trick quick fix buy' problem that has plagued us for a number of years, but for this to succeed the manager (Whether it's ETH or anyone else) needs to be given some trust and time.

 

[RedDevil@84]

Surely manager of the month, right?

 

[iHicksy]

Thanks for pointing it out. I obviously meant since Sir Alex left.

You are my favorite kind of poster on this website. Someone who have a passing interest in United or football, but are here on the forum to highlight mistakes or typos or whatever.

For future reference: Keep doing the good work and you'll keep earning my appreciation. Atta boy!

That's ok you're my favorite poster too. Someone who posts absolute nonsense and then compounds it by making broad moronic statements about posters they know nothing about in the most passive aggressive way. "Keep up the good work kiddo"

 

[gantherbale]

Agree with you on our youth set up - We paid a fair bit for Amad, and he's a decent player, why not see what he Kodi can do?

I would keep Case and Varane at least one more season though, while they're both out of form right now they both played well for the team and are good personalities for the team - add in a young CB and CDM next season, and get the 2 experienced serial winners to mentor Kobbie and the aforementioned summer buys. McTom is not a terrible squad option, surely not worse than Phillips at City I feel, but shouldn't be a regular starter.

New younger CDM, Kobbie, Mount (I do expect him to return to his best), Bruno as starters with back up from Case (could of course start if he's fit enough), McTom, Gore and another youth player next year are good options going forward. ,

New younger CB, Varane/Maguire, Licha/Victor I think is enough for next season at least.

Forwards - Rashford and Antony are out of form but I think they can be given a bit more time to come good, but they both need to step up. We've also got Garnacho as a mainstay (LW) and Pellistri (RW) as a back up, I would also see what Amad can do this season. Rasmus only currently has martial as cover, so I'd look at recalling Greenwood (Controversial maybe, but I mean if we don't give him a second chance, another top club will) and getting an experienced striker in January (loan deal, reasonable wages) to ease the pressure in that position.

Get rid - Sancho (Unless he wants to be a United player and is willing to work with his manager and produces better performances on the pitch) + Martial (Nothing against the guy, but I don't think he's capable of being that experienced striker that eases the pressure on Hojlund/Mason when he's injured so often). Eriksen and Sofyan also need to go - We should look at loan replacements for both.

Ins: New young CDM (Mould of Camavinga), New young CB (Todibo maybe), Experienced CF (Loan), a technical midfielder for the number 8 role (Loan), experienced CDM (Loan)

Outs: Martial (End of contract), Sancho (Sold to the highest bidder), Eriksen, Sofyan, probably Donny as well.

If we do have the money for it, maybe we go for an experienced Striker who's 27-28 via a transfer (Rather than a loan) that can give 2 years to United, that we can sell on for a decent fee once Hojlund/Mason are ready to lead. This United are not necessarily a bad team imo and I feel like we tend to judge our players quite harshly compared to others (Mainly because we've spent large fees) - A younger team takes the pressure of playing for United/ pressure of the price tag down a notch, but also solves our 'expensive-toxic-mercenary-one-trick quick fix buy' problem that has plagued us for a number of years, but for this to succeed the manager (Whether it's ETH or anyone else) needs to be given some trust and time.

Varane is better off this club ! I don't think he has something to provide he's getting weak and the injuries are just eating him

 

[JediSith]

We’re the most inform team over the last 6 matches… top of the league if the the season started 6 matches ago. So it’s amazing how ETH has steadied what could have been a sinking ship. I’d really love to see how other manager’s cope with our injuries, look at Newcastle they are now struggling and I don’t think their injuries are as bad as ours were.

So I’m very happy with ETH and can’t wait for Martinez and Casemiro to return.

My only negative. Not really a negative, more a thought that occurred to me. Not something I believe and only time will tell.. is ETH a manager who only thrives when the preverbal brown stuff has hit the fan?

At United last year after those two games a great run… then drop off when we were in control. This season very similar…now on a great rub after what people made out was a calamitous start.

 

[sepulturite]

We must win all those games, though. We need points

To be fair even if things were going really really well this season I wouldn't expect us to win all those games, especially the Pool and Bayern games.

 

[DRJosh]

We’re the most inform team over the last 6 matches… top of the league if the the season started 6 matches ago. So it’s amazing how ETH has steadied what could have been a sinking ship. I’d really love to see how other manager’s cope with our injuries, look at Newcastle they are now struggling and I don’t think their injuries are as bad as ours were.

So I’m very happy with ETH and can’t wait for Martinez and Casemiro to return.

My only negative. Not really a negative, more a thought that occurred to me. Not something I believe and only time will tell.. is ETH a manager who only thrives when the preverbal brown stuff has hit the fan?

At United last year after those two games a great run… then drop off when we were in control. This season very similar…now on a great rub after what people made out was a calamitous start.

I think we'll be brought down to reality against Newcastle if not Gala. I wouldn't call our current wins a 'great run' yet....time will tell

 

[nakpodiareuben]

I see a few similarities in the build up to the first goal in the Copenhagen goal and the first yesterday which is good.

I just watched the match again. All 3 goals came from similar patterns. Move the ball quickly to the opponent box, get runners

To be fair even if things were going really really well this season I wouldn't expect us to win all those games, especially the Pool and Bayern games.

Last season, Barca, liverpool and city lost to us

 

[sepulturite]

I just watched the match again. All 3 goals came from similar patterns. Move the ball quickly to the opponent box, get runners



Last season, Barca, liverpool and city lost to us

Ah yeh, I'm well aware of that, doesn't mean we'll win all those games in a row even if we were in great form, hardly any team would.

 

[RedRocket08]

Varane is better off this club ! I don't think he has something to provide he's getting weak and the injuries are just eating him

I get that he’s in a rough patch but I still think he has a lot to offer same as Stones for City - Pep trusted Stones through his injury laden period, and he eventually became an influential player for their treble. Rapha I think will have a big part to play in the second half of our season as well. Regardless of what the press says, I don’t think ETH considers him a surplus to requirement at this stage.

 

[Borys]

I just watched the match again. All 3 goals came from similar patterns. Move the ball quickly to the opponent box, get runners



Last season, Barca, liverpool and city lost to us

The bolded part is why we create chances but also why we are so vulnerable defensively - the faster you move the ball vertically, the faster it goes back to our goal. The more players you commit forward (first goal is a great example of that, with Dalot, McTominay, Bruno, Martial and Garnacho attacking the box), the more exposed your central area is. This is not sustainable tactic.

 

[MinGin]

The bolded part is why we create chances but also why we are so vulnerable defensively - the faster you move the ball vertically, the faster it goes back to our goal. The more players you commit forward (first goal is a great example of that, with Dalot, McTominay, Bruno, Martial and Garnacho attacking the box), the more exposed your central area is. This is not sustainable tactic.

It would be similar to Klopp's tactic, dog fight in the midfield then move the ball into the box quickly with overload squad.
The next step would be compressed the area between defensive and midfield with high line, but it requried a top CB with fast / good positioning at the back (we are missing this part, and this is why ETH want MJ Kim last summer). While we are playing with Maguire, so it seems we are exposing our central area and some of players in the squad are still efficientless to win the ball back quickly.

P.S. Maguire is playing very good recently but....

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Martinez, Casemiro (bad start and form excepting), and Hojland are our best three players in their positions. All are out.

Even if they don’t come straight back in and play their best football, training and competition gets better.

We’re better than we’re showing. We have the 4th best squad in the league and should challenge for it. Injuries will determine where we finish.

Still hoping that we properly bomb out of Europe entirely, lose all the travel time, nights away, and EtH gets to spend triple the time at Carrington. That too would go a long way.

The PL will have 5 CL spots this year. A Europa League semi final while we finish 6th would be a true disaster, and see us have all the same problems next season.

 

[Borys]

It would be similar to Klopp's tactic, dog fight in the midfield then move the ball into the box quickly with overload squad.
The next step would be compressed the area between defensive and midfield with high line, but it requried a top CB with fast / good positioning at the back (we are missing this part, and this is why ETH want MJ Kim last summer). While we are playing with Maguire, so it seems we are exposing our central area and some of players in the squad are still efficientless to win the ball back quickly.

P.S. Maguire is playing very good recently but....

Well I don't think I agree with the bolded part, who is doing the dogfight in midfield? Casemiro OR Amrabat OR Mainoo (pick one), the rest is just pushed forward. Liverpool very often played with DM/pivot and two hard working all-round #8s, while we have a DM but then play two #10s and very high up the pitch. This doesn't seem much like Liverpool setup apart from being very direct. But West Ham and Stoke were also "very direct".