Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
Easy for me to say as I have no skin in the game, but it's more important for ETH to establish a long-term culture of commitment than it is for him to cobble together a run of wins. Ideally you could do both, but if getting rid of toxic personalities means sacrificing a few points for now, it's probably worth it.

(With the caveat that this assumes Varane is toxic; I don't know enough about the situation tbh).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Cheimoon
I can only imagine the reaction the manager would get if we played like Spurs did with 9 against Chelsea but stick to the way you play hey guys
Still better than whatever is being served right now.
 
I see the fall out because with all the injuries we have had Ten Haag is fighting for consistency especially at the back. He doesn't trust Varane injury wise and rightly so. Thats why he keeps playing Maguire. At the very least Maguire will stay fit. Varane thinks he is our best CB and should start and its not his fault he's injured. Which is also true. But Ten Haag wins this argument. When the squad settles from all the injuries then he can risk Varane. Like when he can rely on 3 of the back four being consistent then moving a CB in and out is less of a big deal.
 
Has anyone said the player deserved to start? The question is, is this really necessary in the middle of the season?
If the player doesn’t deserve to start then what’s the issue? Of course disruption is unnecessary but that’s firstly assuming the story is correct. It feels like we are blaming the manager for what leaking stories then? Or not clarifying them? Or are we blaming the player? There’s stories like this all the time, its only pertinent as we are in poor form.
Nobody criticised when Bailly was saying he should be starting.
 
I can only imagine the reaction the manager would get if we played like Spurs did with 9 against Chelsea but stick to the way you play hey guys

You don't have to squeeze everything into one game or one moment.
 
I mean it’s been shown that he doesn’t drop certain underperforming players in general.

His man management clearly sucks for a top club. Varane hasn’t had an issue with anyone he’s played under his whole career until now.
Maybe, but that’s assuming he’s doing all the squad management single handed and not acting in cahoots with his superiors.

I think one should at least consider the possibility that the players he’s happening to fall out with are the sort that a well-run club shouldn’t be buying: unsuited to the league/possible poor mentality (Sancho); ageing crocks (Varane); all on massively inflated salaries.

It will be Casemiro next, unless he jumps ship of his own accord. And then stuff will be leaked about how we committed to signing him prior to Woodward leaving.
 
Got a couple injuries and had his arse handed to him. Easy to talk big when you're at Spurs.

I can’t understand how people can quote the spurs manager after a handful of games, as if he’s been winning leagues for years. Ole got the job full time for the very same couple of games run, judge a manager when they come up against serious problems and have overcome these problems, not when they are in a sweet spot and everything is going perfect.
 
Got a couple injuries and had his arse handed to him. Easy to talk big when you're at Spurs.
Would rather watch what Spurs are serving on the field (on the basis of 12 games, not 1 game with 9 men) than the shower of shit we have seen since the league cup win.

And yes, I will wait out a season to re-address this but Spurs are playing some really nice entertaining football which Utd aren't and just based on what I want out my time I put(or waste these days) watching football, I would prefer watching the Spurs style anyday over what Utd are doing.
 
Has anyone said the player deserved to start? The question is, is this really necessary in the middle of the season?

Id rather ETH commits to whatever he feels we need to do rather then make concessions to try and make things a bit easier now. I’m gonna cavaet that by saying none of us truly knows what’s going on behind the scenes so whether it’s ETH fault or the player or just bad injury issues, we are speculating here.

Regardless of ETH as manager, do people think the problems at United, after Ragnick season, we’re going to be an upward linear recovery?

I feel like many fans can only comprehend things getting better and better “cause 400 million spent”. Ignoring all the other reasons why it was probably never gonna to be an easy fix.
 
Would rather watch what Spurs are serving on the field (on the basis of 12 games, not 1 game with 9 men) than the shower of shit we have seen since the league cup win.

And yes, I will wait out a season to re-address this but Spurs are playing some really nice entertaining football which Utd aren't and just based on what I want out my time I put(or waste these days) watching football, I would prefer watching the Spurs style anyday over what Utd are doing.
This is so easy to say :lol:
Hes had a dose of what Ten Hag had to endure by way of injuries all season, and looked like a championship side. A string of no wins and it would have been ange out all the same.
 
This is so easy to say :lol:
Hes had a dose of what Ten Hag had to endure by way of injuries all season, and looked like a championship side. A string of no wins and it would have been ange out all the same.
But is it?
 
But is it?
Yes. The man hasn't even been dealt the same injuries as ten hag did and his side looked worse than we did vs wolves. They were naieve against Chelsea. There's feck all chance he can talk big at United and survive without results.
 
Yes. The man hasn't even been dealt the same injuries as ten hag did and his side looked worse than we did vs wolves. They were naieve against Chelsea. There's feck all chance he can talk big at United and survive without results.
Okay if you say so.
 
We all know so. United is a results based job far more than Spurs. This isn't rocket science.
And where's that expectation leading us? 1 trophy in 5 years and top 4 finishes. Messing up transfer windows one after the other to prioritize 'results' rather than building a foundation and a footballing identity. Oh wait, we actually have an identity - laughing stock of world football.

Spurs might not win anything, i take that. But neither will utd as our manager aint pulling any trees either.
 
Id rather ETH commits to whatever he feels we need to do rather then make concessions to try and make things a bit easier now. I’m gonna cavaet that by saying none of us truly knows what’s going on behind the scenes so whether it’s ETH fault or the player or just bad injury issues, we are speculating here.

Regardless of ETH as manager, do people think the problems at United, after Ragnick season, we’re going to be an upward linear recovery?

I feel like many fans can only comprehend things getting better and better “cause 400 million spent”. Ignoring all the other reasons why it was probably never gonna to be an easy fix.
It’s the train of thought for some people I’m struggling to understand. It’s as you say the assumption of so many things and then the anger that comes over something we can’t be certain about. It’s like any work place, who really knows the dynamics?

I’d go even further back and say the problems are so deep rooted a quick fix or even a one with turbulence was never going to happen. We’ve definitely had more than I’d imagined and most of it out of his control. I keep hearing that top managers just deal with it, yet nobody has provided a similar situation by which we can refer.

Of course not all the mangers decisions will pay off or I’d even say I’d agree with, but at least let’s provide perspective when viewing them. It’s just allows for more reasoned discussion for me.
 
And where's that expectation leading us? 1 trophy in 5 years and top 4 finishes. Messing up transfer windows one after the other to prioritize 'results' rather than building a foundation and a footballing identity. Oh wait, we actually have an identity - laughing stock of world football.

Spurs might not win anything, i take that. But neither will utd as our manager aint pulling any trees either.
In regards to Ten Hag, it put us with top 4, two finals and one cup in season one. Let's see what the ange approach does for him.
 
Seems like ETH has an habit of falling out with players. Why can’t we just be like other clubs who all get along and have good relationships with the manager/coaches. No wonder we never play well when they all fall out with everyone.
While injury prone, especially these last years, Varane has always been a consumate professional and was never known for falling out with his managers. His trophy cabinet is bigger than all of MU players combined bar Casemiro.

You can't allow yourself to fall out with so many players when the results aren't there to back you, you'll alienate even more players. I honestly don't see Ten Hag surviving past December.
 
He’s probably done. He’s not building towards anything anymore, he’s just scraping game by game. Shaw won’t magically transform us, the players don’t have a clue what he wants them to do and we’re a season and a half in.
 
It’s the train of thought for some people I’m struggling to understand. It’s as you say the assumption of so many things and then the anger that comes over something we can’t be certain about. It’s like any work place, who really knows the dynamics?

I’d go even further back and say the problems are so deep rooted a quick fix or even a one with turbulence was never going to happen. We’ve definitely had more than I’d imagined and most of it out of his control. I keep hearing that top managers just deal with it, yet nobody has provided a similar situation by which we can refer.

Of course not all the mangers decisions will pay off or I’d even say I’d agree with, but at least let’s provide perspective when viewing them. It’s just allows for more reasoned discussion for me.

Agree

Klopp and Pep have been discussing player injuries and issues with amount of games played in a season. Whatever 2 quality squad pep says is nonsense but Klopp is a closer comparison to us.

Last season his pool team struggled badly and people were happy to let fatigue be an excuse because “he has credit in the bank”. Ok, that’s fair in terms of him getting a pass but it doesn’t address the fact that ETHs United played a similar amount of games in one season, when there was a World Cup uniquely squeezed in between the season. It’s never happened before and yet some people think it’s just making excuses, which is kind of silly really.

All the injuries we are having this season and issues with fitness, is there any chance that it’s misting down to the unprecedented gruelling schedule that we had and is even affecting teams that didn’t have as many games as us last season?

Klopp has salah , pep has Haaland. ETH has had a superstar who undermined him, an injury prone Frenchman , a Burnley player loaned out to a Turkish team and an unproven 20 year old who had never even played in the EPL. I mean Hoijland (who I like) is the striker you buy when you already have a proven striker at the club. The squad mismanaging by the club for 11 years has been next level incompetence. It happens for every United manager, it’s not their fault, it’s the clubs responsibility to give a manager a balanced squad and it never happens.

Then you look at the injuries, basically our entire starting defence. The season we did what most fans wanted and brought in a replacement keeper, who is trying to settle into a squad decimated with injuries and no settled defence.

Then we have the owner issues, the entire future of the club is unclear. How does that affect seriel winners like Varane or Casemerio at the twilight of their careers ? Regardless of manager they have to be unsettled with how unlcear Uniteds future is, I’d say they aren’t alone.

And then of course theirs the accusations against players and Sanchos ego disrupting things.

I feel like there’s prob things I’m forgetting but any one or two of these things can unsettle teams, but ETH is navigating more issues than any top manager you can quote.

People keep minimising the clubs issues as “excuses” without actually any sort of meaningful explanation as to why they should be ignored. The best clubs in the world; the ones we are supposedly aspiring to be, have little to none of the issues our manager is having to navigate and yet people think “he manages the team, that’s his problem” as if it’s that simple.

It really isn’t and most people don’t wnt ETH sacked, not because everything he doee is perfect or unquestionable. Its because he is at a handicap to every other top class manager at functioning clubs and most of us would prefer even a few horrendous seasons of one man fixing what’s broken then 18-24 cycles of sh*t.

People say “but other clubs…. Right, what other clubs have as many issues at United? What other world class club has spent as much as United the last 11 years and failed miserably even to consistently make top 4? Why can city win a league with pelligrini or Mancini? Why can Barca or Madrid win in Europe or spain with unknown managers ? Even Bayern won a CL with a manager who did what Pep couldn’t.

A club as wealthy and spending as much as United should finish in top 4 regardless of manager. Spending wins for every other top club except United , why is that?

It’s ironic that some people call those of us who don’t want ETH sacked for these very reasons “cult of manager” supporters. By their very belief “we need a world class manager to get more from this squad”, they believe that we just need to find the right manager. They are literally pinning all their hope on one man fixing things.

I don’t know if ETH can turn things around but I’d like to see him try, while working with our club that may be finally about to address some of the major issues that has had the club languishing for a decade.
 
Last edited:
Varane was a 28-year-old with a good, healthy record when he was signed by Manchester United.
So why were RM happy to let him go? Just because he’d become greedy? Which could itself be seen as a red flag.

United have a long and proud record dating back over 50 years at least of signing players who suddenly become injury-prone soon after arriving :rolleyes:
 
Is anyone else concerned with EtH's seeming aversion to rotation? If a player is not in the 12-14 players he likes to pick from, what's the point even trying? Is he actually quoted saying this, or have folks just deduced this?

Surely one of the key advantages of a recognisable system is that one could potentially swap players in and out without negatively impacting performance too much?
 
If the player doesn’t deserve to start then what’s the issue? Of course disruption is unnecessary but that’s firstly assuming the story is correct. It feels like we are blaming the manager for what leaking stories then? Or not clarifying them? Or are we blaming the player? There’s stories like this all the time, its only pertinent as we are in poor form.
Nobody criticised when Bailly was saying he should be starting.
I’m not saying Varane should be starting, I’m saying is falling out with the player in the middle of the season a good idea? Everyone is droppable, but to fall out with the player also takes effort on the managers behalf.
 
In regards to that Ange quote, If just playing the way you coach is the answer then signing any half decent player will win you the lot? Incredibly reductionist and the same people just fall for it because hes the flavour of the month manager.
 
I think Varane is our best defender, i also think Madrid maybe realised he was gonna be a little more prone to injuries and got rid, but at the EOD its the Manager that decides who plays or is on the bench and if any player cannot be accepting of that then they are the problem, what any player should do is work there way back into the team and whilst I am not a fan of HM, he has and Varane should prove to ETH that he deserves it more than HM, its the way all top teams function
 
Id rather ETH commits to whatever he feels we need to do rather then make concessions to try and make things a bit easier now. I’m gonna cavaet that by saying none of us truly knows what’s going on behind the scenes so whether it’s ETH fault or the player or just bad injury issues, we are speculating here.

Regardless of ETH as manager, do people think the problems at United, after Ragnick season, we’re going to be an upward linear recovery?

I feel like many fans can only comprehend things getting better and better “cause 400 million spent”. Ignoring all the other reasons why it was probably never gonna to be an easy fix.
Well the reports are that he was unhappy with Varane’s distribution during the City game, which he feels cost United the game, then he dropped Varane in favour for Evans because he wanted to make an example of him. I have no problem with any of that, but to fall out with the player on top of all that instead of finding a way to work him back into the team is just silly.
 
I’m not saying Varane should be starting, I’m saying is falling out with the player in the middle of the season a good idea? Everyone is droppable, but to fall out with the player also takes effort on the managers behalf.
How does anyone know that they have fallen out? Even if they have, over Varane being dropped that is a Varane issue not ETH's.
 
In regards to that Ange quote, If just playing the way you coach is the answer then signing any half decent player will win you the lot? Incredibly reductionist and the same people just fall for it because hes the flavour of the month manager.
Or he has a point? Coach and play the way you want to play, the players will get it eventually, they’re professionals who want to succeed, they’re not babies who need to be ordered around because they don’t really want to do anything hard.

You can’t turn McTomminay into Zidane but you can coach him to fit into a system, you still need better players to win stuff.
 
Well the reports are that he was unhappy with Varane’s distribution during the City game, which he feels cost United the game, then he dropped Varane in favour for Evans because he wanted to make an example of him. I have no problem with any of that, but to fall out with the player on top of all that instead of finding a way to work him back into the team is just silly.
Evans is playing LCB, HM is Varanes replacement, ETH likes a player capable of playing with his left foot Varane can't apparently, neither can HM so its a choice between RCB for them 2 not evans.
 
Evans is playing LCB, HM is Varanes replacement, ETH likes a player capable of playing with his left foot Varane can't apparently, neither can HM so its a choice between RCB for them 2 not evans.
Hear me out on this one, but you don’t actually have to play left footed defenders on the left side. There’s no rule against it, it’s being stubborn for the sake of it. Creating artificial rules for a style of play that we haven’t seen anyway.
 

The "Just Get Brexit Done" of the football tactics world. It's so simple; just do it, mate. Why didn't everyone else think of that?!
Hear me out on this one, but you don’t actually have to play left footed defenders on the left side. There’s no rule against it, it’s being stubborn for the sake of it. Creating artificial rules for a style of play that we haven’t seen anyway.
Varane should be able to adapt and play with his left foot then. "Coach and play the way you want to play, the players will get it eventually."
 
Hear me out on this one, but you don’t actually have to play left footed defenders on the left side. There’s no rule against it, it’s being stubborn for the sake of it. Creating artificial rules for a style of play that we haven’t seen anyway.
True, but ETH does, agree or not, his logic from his POV makes sense and does not seem unreasonable. Varane should accept it and fight back for his place.
 
Don't Tottenham have an awful injury list too and have done for several weeks? Its just become more of an issue with having their two best players this season injured in the same match.

Just like Chelsea having had bad injuries too.

This is the time we'll see how serious Poste is at Tottenham. The first winter fixture list is always very difficult for a new comer to the league.
 
Ange talking bollocks like usual.
No, fans falling for over-lauded coaches who blame their expensively assembled, almost hand-picked squads for not playing with any level of fluency once one or two players are injured - with the style not great for months before either - as usual. Leeds under Bielsa (1st season in PL) and Brighton (Potter onward) played better football - Brentford likewise - without anything like the expenditure. All that's saved us is luck and a couple of 'moments'.

With the resources United have, any of the 1st team squad should be at the level (through talent and then through coaching) - to come in and play at a 'base' level in terms of movement, speed of passing etc even if what would be wins end up being draws now and again because of playing some of the second-string and not always converting chances....
 
It's looking increasingly likely than Ten Hag could get into an argument in a phone box with no change.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.