Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Skills said:
Let's also stop the tried and tested failing formula of buying new footballers every summer. We've tried it and it hasn't worked. In fact, we've signed way more players for a lot more money than the number of managers. Let's just stop that. Stick with what we've got and see where it goes. That might be it.
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You can fixate on one aspect of the argument which holds true or take my argument at its fullest. There is a significant difference between changing your leadership role and therefore the arbiter of your football compared to playing personnel. The quote from Edu posted earlier I think perfectly sums up our squad

It’s a shame you aren’t showing a willingness to engage on the other points or am I to take that as agreement?
Zlatan 7 said:
Agree with most of what you said, if you look back at my posts last season most were probably moaning at how shit we were but excusing it due to our insane schedule and not enough time to train actual style of play but more just rest recovery training. I also had a go at/ wasn’t happy with ten hag being so naive going for every trophy in his first year when there wasn’t a need to especially when our squad wasn’t built or ready for it, however much he wanted a trophy it wasn’t the time to go for them all, especially now we’re seeing this fallout and fatigue, even possibly the injuries as a result of it.

as for the back up players, again I agree but then whyyyy would ten hag agree or go along with getting Mount when there were much more pressing positions to cover, we all know Bruno will run and run and play 99% of our matches and Mount who plays or should play in that position will not get the game time there.
Unless ten hag had different ideas for him and hoped to play both him and Bruno in the same midfield with just one dm in Casemiro who we also know is aging and can’t cover that ground on his own. Or even the plan is to sell Bruno and just keep Mount. Anthony, I think was a waste of money but can kind of see why he wanted him, Mount has me baffled and I honestly don’t know who would be at fault for wasting that money on him when we clearly needed that money spent elsewhere.

I don’t think I want him sacked yet as I always hope every manager we have can turn it around although I was happy when mourinho got the boot. But it’s getting to the stage where this form or lack of playing style has gone on far too long. I guess we just have to sit back and hope
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I think Mount still makes sense as I see him as Eriksen replacement in a new system and Bruno back up (and we’ve been stupidly lucky with Bruno’s fitness). But yeah I can understand your frustration with him being signed given that we’ve not really played the Casemiro, Mount and Bruno in its intended context.

I do think

Onana
AWB Varane Martinez Shaw
Casemiro
Bruno Mount
Antony Højlund Rashford​

Is what Ten Hag wants to do with the balance being in defence:

Onana
AWB Varane Martinez Shaw
Antony Casemiro Bruno Mount
Højlund Rashford

In offence:

Onana
Varane Martinez
AWB ———Casemiro ———Shaw
Bruno Mount
Antony Højlund Rashford​

I’m just unsure what he does in that row of AWB and Shaw when attacking (haven’t got a big enough sample size to see yet)
 
Fulham fan joining in peace. Although I do recall supporting you when I was younger - you did have a player that i shared a last name with...

It's sad to me to see the issue going on at your club, whether its the manager, the owners or the players. I wish you well, except this weekend obviously...
 
I really would love to see him turn this around but he's out of his depth and it's only a matter of time before he's gone.Clear.
 
Oranges038 said:
It's not really mostly his squad. While he is struggling to get a tune out his own players, that's just not true. He's signed 16 players 10 permanent, several of those are backups, 2 were free transfers, 6 of them were loans and 4 of those loans are already gone. He's only really brought in 5/6 players to be expected first team starters.

Onana - 55m - start
Martinez -50m - start
Casemiro - 40m - start
Mount - 55m - backup
Hojlund - 70m - start
Malacia - backup 13m
Antony - 80m - start
Eriksen - free - start
Bayindir - backup 5m
Evans - emergency backup
Reguillon - emergency loan

That's 12 players in the squad? We can really forget about Evans and Reguillon as they were only signed as emergency cover. Even if you include them it's still not even mostly his squad, not even half of it is his squad.
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I wouldn't mind to see most of our players replaced, so I'll just agree with you on that point. I do think he's spent far too much for that excuse though, if he keeps this up we'll have the most expensive side ever assembled in the league.

tomaldinho1 said:
Blanc as CEO? As in Laurent Blanc?
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Jean-Claude Blanc
 
pascell said:
Most of these players heeded McKennas instructions as coach, they'd eat him alive as manager, same as Amorim.

Needs a manager who won't be scared to break a few eggs (egos) to make an omelette (make us successful).
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That's why ETH needs to play more kids. That how arteta turned it around. He got rid of the experienced players and took a beating with new young players.
 
sglowrider said:
That's why ETH needs to play more kids. That how arteta turned it around. He got rid of the experienced players and took a beating with new young players.
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And who would you be playing right now then? That is fit and available?
 
sglowrider said:
That's why ETH needs to play more kids. That how arteta turned it around. He got rid of the experienced players and took a beating with new young players.
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Would be my preference. This i felt was needed to be done in first season under ETH. He completely disregarded Rangnick assessment and went with safer options. Now these players have done the same what they did to Ole. I am sure if ETH is sacked our performance will improve but same cycle will repeat after 18 months.

Get rid of all big name players and replace them with younger players. Shift them out in January transfer window if possible or do the surgery next season. This squad has proven again and again that they will down the tools and leak to media
 
Jacko21 said:
Arteta had that horrendous run from October through to December where he won 1 in 10 in the league (7 of which were defeats). Ironically, the win came against us.

This is what Edu (sporting director) said recently about how they viewed the situation when there were loud calls for Arteta to resign:

"You have to analyse your squad and ask yourself why we are not getting positive results. It’s the coach’s or the squad’s fault? I presented to the directors that the squad that Mikel inherited wasn’t the best possible squad for him. It wasn’t his problem but ours. We have a responsibility to help him and empower him to do the best work possible.”

Good coaching underpinned by solid recruitment and a unified vision has led to Arsenal's revival.
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At the time of Arteta's really bad period in late 2020, he'd barely spent anything. A few loans in the January window and a combined £81.5m on six players in the summer, with Partey and Gabriel being among them. Or slightly less than an Antony for the lot. He then spent nothing in the next January window either, meaning his total spend in his first three transfer windows was that £81.5m. Ten Hag has spent around £400m remodelling the squad in his image during his first three transfer windows.

Comparing the two is absurd. I'd imagine Edu might have been feeling a wee bit less charitable had Arsenal spent that kind of money before going on a months-long streak of bad results.
 
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Mickeza said:
He won’t be gone until INEOS take control. I think it will then be deemed mutual when they take his veto for signings that he insisted on away from him.
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Yeah I can't see any action until then either,however do wonder how long that's gonna take
 
sglowrider said:
That's why ETH needs to play more kids. That how arteta turned it around. He got rid of the experienced players and took a beating with new young players.
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Against Newcastle, the younger players did okay, I thought.

The individual performances were mostly terrible. The players look shell-shocked and can’t even do the basics, they aren’t concentrating, they don’t see danger until it’s too late. They’re failing to control simple passes, kicking it into touch, all manner of shit. They are shot. And it looks eerily like Ole’s last few games.

So, yeah. Clear out all of them, more or less. For a few weeks. Play more kids. They’ll need some experience with them but keep only the most mentally strong. Not sure who, out of the fit players, would qualify as mentally strong.

It’s depressing. But fascinating.
 
He should have been sacked after the Liverpool game.

That was our surrender and we never recovered.
 
If we lose to Fulham which seems likely, it's over.

Problem is, if we get De Zerbi or anyone at that matter, he'll be labeled as "fraud"too soon enough.

Truth is the frauds own United. Nothing really good will happen before they sell.
 
He only has himself to blame.

He built this team on a really shaky foundation last season and followed it up by making things worse this summer. He was always going to fail because his plan was fundamentally flawed.

This is a league that requires great athletes to win. His summer signings last year were Eriksen, Casemiro, Martinez, Antony and Malacia, all of these players have physical or athletic limitations for the PL. Look at Spurs for example, while Maddison has added the flair they were lacking, its players like Romero, Bissouma, Van de Ven and Udogie coming in that have allowed them to win battles on the pitch and play aggressive and proactive football.

EtH is trying to play aggressive football with weak and slow players, how the hell does that make sense. Fergie and Klopp teams set the blueprint for being great transition teams with nearly every player being tough as nails and superb athletes.

Ten Hag has shown the planning of a novice. Making mistakes in his first season is forgivable as he was new to the league but having a second year of poor signings and having an even worse gameplan for the squad is unforgivable.
 
Aretak said:
At the time of Arteta's really bad period in late 2020, he'd barely spent anything. A few loans in the January window and a combined £81.5m on six players in the summer, with Partey and Gabriel being among them. Or slightly less than an Antony for the lot. He then spent nothing in the next January window either, meaning his total spend in his first three transfer windows was that £81.5m. Ten Hag has spent around £400m remodelling the squad in his image during his first three transfer windows.

Comparing the two is absurd. I'd imagine Edu might have been feeling a wee bit less charitable had Arsenal spent that kind of money before going on a months-long streak of bad results.
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There might be more to it than how much money the club spends. I don’t know why anyone would look at the signings we’ve made and assume that we should be amazing already, an absurd idea.

Clearly we are in some deep shit and plenty of mistakes have been made but the squad, as a whole, is a work in progress, it’s not fully remodelled in EtH’s image; I can’t understand what’s to be gained by claiming otherwise.

Again, for some people it’s not enough to point out the actual failings, which are plenty bad enough, they want to distort the picture so they can say things are even worse. I don’t see the point.
 
El Jefe said:
He only has himself to blame.

He built this team on a really shaky foundation last season and followed it up by making things worse this summer. He was always going to fail because his plan was fundamentally flawed.

This is a league that requires great athletes to win. His summer signings last year were Eriksen, Casemiro, Martinez, Antony and Malacia, all of these players have physical or athletic limitations for the PL. Look at Spurs for example, while Maddison has added the flair they were lacking, its players like Romero, Bissouma, Van de Ven and Udogie coming in that have allowed them to win battles on the pitch and play aggressive and proactive football.

EtH is trying to play aggressive football with weak and slow players, how the hell does that make sense. Fergie and Klopp teams set the blueprint for being great transition teams with nearly every player being tough as nails and superb athletes.

Ten Hag has shown the planning of a novice. Making mistakes in his first season is forgivable as he was new to the league but having a second year or poor signings and having an even worse gameplan for the squad is unforgivable.
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Drivel.
 
El Jefe said:
He only has himself to blame.

He built this team on a really shaky foundation last season and followed it up by making things worse this summer. He was always going to fail because his plan was fundamentally flawed.

This is a league that requires great athletes to win. His summer signings last year were Eriksen, Casemiro, Martinez, Antony and Malacia, all of these players have physical or athletic limitations for the PL. Look at Spurs for example, while Maddison has added the flair they were lacking, its players like Romero, Bissouma, Van de Ven and Udogie coming in that have allowed them to win battles on the pitch and play aggressive and proactive football.

EtH is trying to play aggressive football with weak and slow players, how the hell does that make sense. Fergie and Klopp teams set the blueprint for being great transition teams with nearly every player being tough as nails and superb athletes.

Ten Hag has shown the planning of a novice. Making mistakes in his first season is forgivable as he was new to the league but having a second year or poor signings and having an even worse gameplan for the squad is unforgivable.
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hard to disagree with all this
 
Toshey said:
If we lose to Fulham which seems likely, it's over.

Problem is, if we get De Zerbi or anyone at that matter, he'll be labeled as "fraud"too soon enough.

Truth is the frauds own United. Nothing really good will happen before they sell.
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We surely won’t go for a small club manager with no track record of winning. If we sack EtH we’ll get a big name again I’m sure. But it doesn’t matter who they are, they will be labelled “past it” or a fraud, as you say. They will be expected to exceed realistic expectation immediately.
 
Ten Hag did enough last season to deserve our support for the rest of this season. Yes, he's made a couple of bad signings for big money. And his tactics and substitutions are sometimes baffling.

But considering all the shite he's had to deal with like the takeover. The ongoing player sagas. The constant failure to move people on. The injuries to key players. Much of it is beyond his control.

Let's see where we are in the new year and if things aren't improving by then, we can start looking at different options for next season. Until then, we need to support the manager and the players.
 
El Jefe said:
He only has himself to blame.

He built this team on a really shaky foundation last season and followed it up by making things worse this summer. He was always going to fail because his plan was fundamentally flawed.

This is a league that requires great athletes to win. His summer signings last year were Eriksen, Casemiro, Martinez, Antony and Malacia, all of these players have physical or athletic limitations for the PL. Look at Spurs for example, while Maddison has added the flair they were lacking, its players like Romero, Bissouma, Van de Ven and Udogie coming in that have allowed them to win battles on the pitch and play aggressive and proactive football.

EtH is trying to play aggressive football with weak and slow players, how the hell does that make sense. Fergie and Klopp teams set the blueprint for being great transition teams with nearly every player being tough as nails and superb athletes.

Ten Hag has shown the planning of a novice. Making mistakes in his first season is forgivable as he was new to the league but having a second year of poor signings and having an even worse gameplan for the squad is unforgivable.
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This is true to some extent but, again, it is exaggerated.

Martinez was great when fit and more than compensated for any athletic deficiencies.

Casemiro hasn’t been great all the time but his experience was very helpful to us last year and he still contributes a lot.

Anthony is strong, aggressive and quick enough.

Eriksen is feeble but, firstly, he was free, and secondly, he’s got qualities that are useful and before his injury last year he was highly effective.

Malacia is not especially consequential but it’s not easy to judge his long term ability to function in the prem at this point.

So, I sort of know what you mean but I think you’re overstating it. Yes there are problems with the profile of the squad and EtH is struggling to find a balance that keeps us developing toward the way he wants us to play but doesn’t ignore the need to win the games.

It doesn’t help that every player is performing far below his top level and it’s probably true that EtH has brought some of that on us and on himself. However if he sticks around long enough, he will solve some of these issues by getting players back from injury, bringing more youth players through and recruiting a few. Probably he’ll be sacked before all that happens which will please many, I’m sure.
 
OrcaFat said:
This is true to some extent but, again, it is exaggerated.

Martinez was great when fit and more than compensated for any athletic deficiencies.

Casemiro hasn’t been great all the time but his experience was very helpful to us last year and he still contributes a lot.

Anthony is strong, aggressive and quick enough.

Eriksen is feeble but, firstly, he was free, and secondly, he’s got qualities that are useful and before his injury last year he was highly effective.

Malacia is not especially consequential but it’s not easy to judge his long term ability to function in the prem at this point.

So, I sort of know what you mean but I think you’re overstating it. Yes there are problems with the profile of the squad and EtH is struggling to find a balance that keeps us developing toward the way he wants us to play but doesn’t ignore the need to win the games.

It doesn’t help that every player is performing far below his top level and it’s probably true that EtH has brought some of that on us and on himself. However if he sticks around long enough, he will solve some of these issues by getting players back from injury, bringing more youth players through and recruiting a few. Probably he’ll be sacked before all that happens which will please many, I’m sure.
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This is a good retort. With ETH struggling, many are now pulling theories out of their butt to fit the narrative. Not a peep about these 'issues' last year.
 
Nicoseth said:
This is a good retort. With ETH struggling, many are now pulling theories out of their butt to fit the narrative. Not a peep about these 'issues' last year.
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Last season is last season, and ten Hag had absolutely earned the grace of going into the next season with backing he would improve upon what he'd done.

There's been an endless stream of concern since the Mount pursuit and signing, but individually, they're just pockets of concern that one party or another may have which others aren't particularly bothered about. The same goes for preseason, some were alarmed at how poorly conducted and executed it was and stated their concern right then and there and said it was a bad state of affairs going into the season proper. Some don't give two shits about preseason, so of course they wouldn't be saying anything about it. Then came the intent to play a midfield many said would be an absolute disaster, even in notion of a #6 and two #10's. It turned out to be exactly as those who doubted it expected; they voiced their concerns constantly whilst others said they'd give more time because it's only 2 games, 5 games, 8 games... then the constant fielding of underperforming players whilst not giving others in the squad their shot. Some don't care, so they don't say anything.

Combine all the above together and each small pocket of concern has converged and camps that didn't care about even the majority of the above, are now voicing concerns because of how bad we are. The voices of discontent are now coming from too many angles to be ignored or not be the concern of the vast majority.

Most of these issues didn't exist last season, so they wouldn't have been talked about.
 
M15 Red. said:
Ten Hag did enough last season to deserve our support for the rest of this season. Yes, he's made a couple of bad signings for big money. And his tactics and substitutions are sometimes baffling.

But considering all the shite he's had to deal with like the takeover. The ongoing player sagas. The constant failure to move people on. The injuries to key players. Much of it is beyond his control.

Let's see where we are in the new year and if things aren't improving by then, we can start looking at different options for next season. Until then, we need to support the manager and the players.
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I do worry about him taking us to Anfield,however as I have said many times we just can't have the leeches sacking another manager. I want us to get a new CEO and recruitment team in place then leave it up to them on what happens next.
 
Nicoseth said:
Drivel.
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Why is it drivel? We are fecking diabolical. We are outplayed by literally every single team we play. The buck has to stop with the manager for what we see out on that pitch.
 
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