Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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pocco said:
Yeah and the football geniuses in our fanbase and running the club turned on him for it. I said at the time I trusted him over the club to be right as he earned that trust, unlike Woodward etc. He was the only manager post Fergie that had any standards and held people accountable.

It's baffling that so many fans were unwilling to listen back then. They'd fecking love it if he was here right now giving out some home truths.
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The issue with Jose is his problem solving skill is boring short term bandaid fix.
No one argued he's very good at identify problems but he's also good at creating them by himself.

If club had backed him unconditionally, he would've get more than 81 points but it wouldn't be enough and would only last for 1-2 years top anyway...
 
Was hoping for something different tonight, but it was more hope than expectation. Why on earth is there no variation in formation? It's like they're netball players, not allowed out of their designated position or area. This 4-2-3-1/4-3-3 clearly isn't working no matter what players we have out there, so why not try something new, and dare I say it.. Unpredictable! Too rigid, no fluidity, defence was horrendous. Absolute zero positives from tonight.
 
crossy1686 said:
:lol: You’re the one saying we can’t sack the manager because the players ‘win’!

It’s a fecking fantasy land where it’s them against us and the manager. They’ve got to be whipped and barked at to do anything noteworthy because they hate everything about playing football. Like they’re all here against their will, begrudgingly scoring goals and celebrating in front of the fans because the manager instructed them to.

Have a word with yourself. They want to win and perform more than you’ll ever know.
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You don't seem to actually watch our games.
 
TsuWave said:
That's cool and all and how you feel - I hear that. However, the reported list of players Ragnick recommended included some really good players, hence talent ID - and mentioned in the context of his proposed consultancy role and the £400m's we've spent for the current manager.
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All players that were well known to scouts around the world and he also identified some very average players and clearly had very little clue about what to do to sort out Man Utd. Like everyone else we've appointed tbf, but pining for fecking Rangnick is just ludicrous. It's like going "if only Liz Truss hadn't been cast aside".
 
abailey123 said:
Re-wind the clock 18 months ago and everyone on this forum was clamouring for Ten Hag, last season was clear progress 2 cup finals and a 3rd place finish. We had the start of an identity last season - playing in the half spaces - overloads vs underloads, moving the play.
This season has been going pear shaped since July - from the shambolic ownership situation which doesn’t seem to ever resolve itself, to the complete mishandling of the Greenwood situation, to the copious injury list, to the Sancho situation, to the Antony situation. I actually feel sorry for Ten Hag. He’s not without his faults but he’s firefighting week after week.
That team that was out there tonight also was not Ten Hag’s team - Onana, Casemiro, Mount & Antony were the only 4 starters that Ten Hag has signed (excluding an emergency left back). That stinks of poor recruitment.
This doesn’t change until the whole club becomes aligned - which only happens when there’s new owners at board level filtering their vision down. Can you imagine the turmoil and unrest which must be going on within the club at the minute?
Ten Hag excelled at Ajax under structure - Overmars pulling the strings with the transfers and Van Der Sar at the helm. Give him the structure he needs and watch our fortunes turn.
What Ten Hag needs to do in the short term is inject some energy into the squad, bring Mainoo in for starters, give Pellistri game time on the right get fighters in the team.
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Not me. I've been decribed as a constant hater. One poster even mentioned that when I praised our form last season I struggled to give him any credit or praise. A United supporting friend of mine credited me over the weekend because he admired my consistency of having never rated ETH and didn't really flip even after last season. Think he was always overrated personally. Lived off of one cup run which ultimately ended in failure
 
crossy1686 said:
I see a bunch of players set up in the worst possible way which leads to them giving up because they won’t score if they play for two full weeks anyway.
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To be fair, they haven't had the ability to play football removed from them. They're not robots, if they were they'd probably be better. You're removing a little bit too much blame from this group of players, many of which have let the club down far too many times at this point.

I think Ten Hag is a lost cause probably, but I also think whoever comes in after him is too, without actual big changes to the entire structure, we're fecked.
 
We simply cannot allow this group of players to again get away with it by sacking the manager… again! Rinse repeat again in 18 months when the honeymoon period wears off. Have we learned nothing. Leopards don’t change their spots so why would they now.

It is not the managers fault that players continually get out worked, out fought, out thought and give up when things don’t go there way… It’s embarrassing. If this group of players cannot do that for themselves, for each other and for the fans who turn up week in week out then I don’t care who the manager is they are not right for this club. They will fail the next manager too and the next one after that.

The best thing this club could do to stop this rot is make it absolutely clear that ten Hag is staying no matter what... His job is not at risk at all and that he has a contract longer than each of the players so don’t think for a second that you can just outlast him. Perhaps then they can take ownership and accountability for their own performances.

I am just sick of this vicious cycle and have no hope it can be rectified by sacking another manager. We are broken beyond repair until we get new ownership and competent football people hired into a proper footballing structure.
 
If it were just the players who played under other managers that were the problem there would be potential benefit to keeping Ten Hag and getting rid of the players. The problem is who he would be replacing them with. And there is nothing about that idea that makes keeping him a good option.
 
crossy1686 said:
I see a bunch of players set up in the worst possible way which leads to them giving up because they won’t score if they play for two full weeks anyway.
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Your initial argument was that the players actually really want to win and fight for the club, yet you've pivoted into saying they aren't actually even trying and that's okay because... reasons. Windmilling. There's zero excuse for ever "giving up" regardless of what you think of the manager's tactics or anything else. Many of these charlatans have given up and downed tools for a slew of different managers now. I guess we're still just waiting on finding that one in a million man who'll finally unlock the hidden potential of this great bunch of lads, who really love the club and the fans and are just waiting for their chance to show it.
 
TheRedDevil2019 said:
Get in Simeone/Conte

Give them full power to sack off the babies that constantly down tools, stop obeying team orders etc that we see year in, year out.

If we aren't going to play attractive football (we haven't for 10 years) then you may aswell get a manager who will at least rid the club of the problem makers. (Besides the board obviously)
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I think we’ve suffered enough dull football. If we’re going to lose anyway we might as well get somebody fun and at least when we lose we might score a couple.
 
One of the biggest black marks against Ten Hag is how badly performing the players he bloody chose to sign are performing. Seemingly not having a working plan for your big money midfield signing, and your big signing from the previous summer isn't inspiring anyone either.
 
TwoSheds said:
All players that were well known to scouts around the world and he also identified some very average players and clearly had very little clue about what to do to sort out Man Utd. Like everyone else we've appointed tbf, but pining for fecking Rangnick is just ludicrous. It's like going "if only Liz Truss hadn't been cast aside".
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Profile of players he identified was one more suitable for PL and certainly for the seemingly less 'technical style our managers invariably fall into. Plus if he was in charge of when and how to acquire them, it's fairly certain we wouldn't have bene stung buying them when their price had maxxed out, or being held over a barrel for a single player (thereby placing unnecessary pressure on those players too) . For what the club has spent, I'd have trusted RR more...hell, I'd have trusted several posters on here more, given the far more astute recommendations that I've seen on the more committed 'Scouting' pages...compared to ETH or the 'committee' that he either heads or supersedes
 
acnumber9 said:
I think we’ve suffered enough dull football. If we’re going to lose anyway we might as well get somebody fun and at least when we lose we might score a couple.
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Thing is tho: that is pretty much exactly what EtH was expected to bring. His Ajax played some of the most entertaining footie in Europe at the time.
 
crossy1686 said:
So you don’t believe these players play for Manchester United because they want to win trophies and play for a massive club where the expectation is to win every game? Instead they would rather get a good manager sacked instead of work hard for those things? Have you heard this nonsense?
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Not sure if sarcastic, but thats exactly what these lot have doing for a while now. get the manager sacked
 
Will be interesting to hear how it all unraveled for him after the league cup win. The team seemed completely onboard with ETH, things we're going well, Martinez and Casemiro looked like warriors out there, we even had good form from Dalot. ETH was speaking well about the club, he loved it here and seemed to get us.

I wonder if ETH gave the team a bollocking Fergie style after the cup win and it didn't go down well. I just can't see many of this group thinking we won the league cup at United so time to relax as the main reason. Something else has gone on like Luke Shaw alluded to and ETH has lost them, perhaps they didn't like his squad management last season and grew to dislike him. I've stated it a few times but I' saw the belief and enthusiasm disappear from Casemiro, like he saw how the sausage was made and that was it for him, like it's mission impossible at the club.

It's a real sad end for ETH and he hasn't done himself any favours this season. LVG will be on the phone saying I told you and maybe ETH wants to go back and save Ajax and get out of Manchester, his best was about 5 months worth and it's petered out, the club and situation has swallowed him up.

We have his players like Antony here, does he want to feck off when ETH is gone. yes I 'm sure many are saying feck him off but it's just odd how quickly this has turned to shit with so many of his players and the alleged roasting ETH gave the united board for recruitment while interviewed for the job.
 
Redplane said:
Thing is tho: that is pretty much exactly what EtH was expected to bring. His Ajax played some of the most entertaining footie in Europe at the time.
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Even when we were getting decent results last season it was rare the performances were ever that good. When was the last time United gave somebody a good beating? We’ve never done it under Ten Hag. It’s a fair point though, I don’t know who that manager would be but it sure as shit isn’t Conte or Simeone. I don’t think I could watch us under Conte.
 
I'd probably for the first time in my life be insanely close to giving us a miss if we hired Conte. I've found us miserable enough over the last decade, that would be too much for me to bare.
 
The bottom line is he was the wrong choice and we are seeing that play out.

He fluked a cup and got that rub of the green that Ole for example didn't get in a similar situation.

Ever since we have been dire and produce the worst football we have seen since Fergie left.

There is just nothing to be gained from keeping him and despite what his supporters will say everything to be gained from getting rid and hiring a proper manager.

Of course we need a better structure as well and this time when we do get a new manager not back down and hand over all control of recruitment to him like we did with Erik.

Having a new structure now will not make Ten Hag a better manager. It will not suddenly make us play better football.

It will not make us better coached and able to take a set piece and string two passes together.

The only thing that can do that is a better manager than Ten Hag.

We made a huge mistake with him accept that get rid and start again this time on a better foot with a better choice and structure.
 
TwoSheds said:
All players that were well known to scouts around the world and he also identified some very average players and clearly had very little clue about what to do to sort out Man Utd. Like everyone else we've appointed tbf, but pining for fecking Rangnick is just ludicrous. It's like going "if only Liz Truss hadn't been cast aside".
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Your rants are encroaching meltdown territory, to be honest. I’m speaking specifically about player ID, and again the players he recommended are, imo, better than the ones Ten Hag wanted/we’ve spent money on. Hence - “the funny thing about the £400m spent was that the current guy scrapped the Ragnick consultancy”. All this “pining after Ragnick and sorting out Man Utd” stuff is just you looking at clouds and screaming “dinosaurs!”
 
I just don't get all the posts about the players letting the manager down again. How they're not fit to wear the shirt.

In the majority of our games, I'd say the majority of our starting 11s + subs were either bought under ten Hag (and EVERY transfer was praised for the most part bar Mount) or promoted from the academy by him. These aren't the same players that people claim threw our previous managers under the bus. These are players everyone on here was happy about joining within the past year.

There's one constant. Underperforming managers that fail to recruit the right players, which is also on the head of our DOF, but ten Hag (+ previous managers) still doesn't get a free pass. Who, since leaving, has gone on to prove us wrong? I don't think any of them have. I think saying the players are throwing him under the bus is a cop out. They deserve criticism because the majority aren't good enough, but not for deliberately putting in bad performances as a way to stick it to ten Hag.
 
I don't know about you folks, but I truly felt sorry for Ten Hag today. He looked like a broken man. I don't know what is wrong with this club but right now it really is truly depressing.
 
Whats the point of sacking him? Won't achieve anything. Same old same old. Collectively we need to work together.

Danny Blind, Cavani & Marcos Rojo are 3 players who have left the club and doing exceedingly well for their new clubs.

Go look at what they are doing now, what's changed in their lives and why has leaving OT worked for them.
 
Mainoldo said:
Im sure there’s a stat video somewhere saying how crap he is at aerial duals. I mean who needs scouts
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Imagine having him as DM and Martinez at LCB. I mentioned it during the summer window and so many folks mocked me for caring about such an antiquated thing as aerial ability.
 
Baxquux said:
Profile of players he identified was one more suitable for PL and certainly for the seemingly less 'technical style our managers invariably fall into. Plus if he was in charge of when and how to acquire them, it's fairly certain we wouldn't have bene stung buying them when their price had maxxed out, or being held over a barrel for a single player (thereby placing unnecessary pressure on those players too) . For what the club has spent, I'd have trusted RR more...hell, I'd have trusted several posters on here more, given the far more astute recommendations that I've seen on the more committed 'Scouting' pages...compared to ETH or the 'committee' that he either heads or supersedes
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Sure. Rangnick is so amazing he can only get a job as the coach of Austria. Such fools not to make him chairman of the board.
 
There's a reason why every Dutch manager has failed in the Premier League in England. They are not good enough and they don't have the personality or man management skills to deal with top players. The Premier League is too difficult for them to transition the type of football they want to play onto as you can't get away with playing that type of football like they do in the Dutch League.

Ten Hag is no better than Frank de Boer was. The sooner he's sacked the better. Otherwise it'll be a long goodbye (when I think a quick divorce would be better for everyone). As he isn't turning this round even if he flukes a few wins here and there. The rot has already set in. Players and majority of fans already dislike him. All roads lead to Ten Hag sacking.

the job is just too big for him and he has no ideas left on what to do. Even Ten Hag came across that way in his post match press conference tonight. He should quit himself.
 
The standard of football that is being served up by Ten Hag right now is downright hideous and unacceptable. We can't delude ourselves; we scraped a few wins this season basically out of dumb luck, and they were against sides who are almost equally hapless. Probably the best performance of the season was a game we lost against Arsenal and played poorly in at times.

I know that sacking him puts huge pressure on an incoming manager, but it would be abundantly clear to anyone with an ounce of common sense what he's doing wrong, week in, week out, which is that he is selecting sides with no natural width and playing players (including key players) out of position.

If you have a centre forward like Hojlund, you need width. But he plays these incredibly narrow set ups with Bruno on the fecking right when it's obvious he offers nothing defensively and provides zero width. Then he selects Lindelof, who's playing poorly, out of position, when he could play Reguilon that he signed to provide some width.

There's like a catalogue of errors in every single teamsheet that he spews out, and he doesn't even correct his own mistakes.

I know that Potter messed up royally at Chelsea, but I don't see any other option out there. It's desperate as hell but worth a punt, imo. Brighton played some great football under him.
 
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TwoSheds said:
Sure. Rangnick is so amazing he can only get a job as the coach of Austria. Such fools not to make him chairman of the board.
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It's not about his management ffs. That has little or nothing to do with it.. It's a truism but there are lots of good Ass Mans who just shouldn't become managers or head coaches; likewise DOFs/SDs. Although at least RR had a 'plan' for how he wanted the side to play - not entirely his fault if our , on the whole, brattish and coddled players couldn't stomach the idea of playing a style that demanded intensity and concentration on and off the ball.
 
FrankWhite said:
Imagine having him as DM and Martinez at LCB. I mentioned it during the summer window and so many folks mocked me for caring about such an antiquated thing as aerial ability.
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It’s why we are where we are…

I like Lisandro Martinez. But they had identified Pau Torres. I’m sure there are reasons for that and we have now signed a bunch of players who I’m sure if we read the scouting reports the problems we can say are all over the report.

I have no issues with giving the manager power but have abit of common sense and an idea of what the short and long term goal looks like. It’s not hard!!!!!
 
abailey123 said:
Re-wind the clock 18 months ago and everyone on this forum was clamouring for Ten Hag, last season was clear progress 2 cup finals and a 3rd place finish. We had the start of an identity last season - playing in the half spaces - overloads vs underloads, moving the play.
This season has been going pear shaped since July - from the shambolic ownership situation which doesn’t seem to ever resolve itself, to the complete mishandling of the Greenwood situation, to the copious injury list, to the Sancho situation, to the Antony situation. I actually feel sorry for Ten Hag. He’s not without his faults but he’s firefighting week after week.
That team that was out there tonight also was not Ten Hag’s team - Onana, Casemiro, Mount & Antony were the only 4 starters that Ten Hag has signed (excluding an emergency left back). That stinks of poor recruitment.
This doesn’t change until the whole club becomes aligned - which only happens when there’s new owners at board level filtering their vision down. Can you imagine the turmoil and unrest which must be going on within the club at the minute?
Ten Hag excelled at Ajax under structure - Overmars pulling the strings with the transfers and Van Der Sar at the helm. Give him the structure he needs and watch our fortunes turn.
What Ten Hag needs to do in the short term is inject some energy into the squad, bring Mainoo in for starters, give Pellistri game time on the right get fighters in the team.
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I agree but he’s not going to make it through the season if he’s lost the dressing room, which he clearly has. He’s signed enough players to at least get a committed performance now a few of his signings are back? They all just look like they hate every second of being on the pitch for us. It’s exactly like the final days of all the others which is a major pity because ETH is the best manager with the best back room team we’ve had post Fergie. It looks like the club and players problems and limitations have worn him down and they’ve all fallen out. It’s so infuriating to see the players throw yet another manager under the bus.
 
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I feel like with the standards being as low as they are now - the next manager will be allowed to build something. I mean, anything that moves the needle at this point would be seen as a positive.
 
At the moment It's a carbon copy of this stage in the season under Jose 2018/19 with 17 points in the league after 10 games, out of the league cup at home to Derby. In Europe 1 win from 3 games.

Also a carbon copy at this stage in the season under Ole 2021/22 with 17 points in the league after 10 games, out of the league cup at home to West Ham. In Europe 2 wins from 3 and those two wins was late winners.
 
klayton88 said:
It could be absolute bollocks but somebody on talk sport claimed to have spoken with a United coach after the Derby and said ETH didn't shout at the players because he's not allowed to or something to that effect.
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this is what I was alluding to earlier, is the manager really in control at Manchester United?

how do we have the same problems no matter the personnel?

I have my doubts as mad as it sounds.
 
TwoSheds said:
Sure. Rangnick is so amazing he can only get a job as the coach of Austria. Such fools not to make him chairman of the board.
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Nobody here denies that Rangnick is a shit coach. That's not the point that's being made though.
 
klayton88 said:
It could be absolute bollocks but somebody on talk sport claimed to have spoken with a United coach after the Derby and said ETH didn't shout at the players because he's not allowed to or something to that effect.
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Marcelinho87 said:
this is what I was alluding to earlier, is the manager really in control at Manchester United?

how do we have the same problems no matter the personnel?

I have my doubts as mad as it sounds.
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You guys are just believing anything now, come on :lol:
 
always_hoping said:
At the moment It's a carbon copy of this stage in the season under Jose 2018/19 with 17 points in the league after 10 games, out of the league cup at home to Derby. In Europe 1 win from 3 games.

Also a carbon copy at this stage in the season under Ole 2021/22 with 17 points in the league after 10 games, out of the league cup at home to West Ham. In Europe 2 wins from 3 and those two wins was late winners.
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So basically shit on a stick football with no effort from the players and lucky individual moments to drag us through some games but mostly found out in others. We’ve been here too many times before in the last decade. Something fundamentally wrong at the core it can’t surely be that Moyes, LVG, Mourinho and ten Hag are all bad managers who fall to the pressure of managing us.
 
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