Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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I just don't think anything he's trying is working. It's criminal just how hopeless we look.

I usually dread going to Anfield, and I don't usually look too far ahead, but god if Ten Hag is still in charge, and we're still in this sort of form, 7-0 could easily be topped.
 
And they got Conte and Mourinho
Yeah, he seems to have flattered to deceive in terms of the coaching side (recruitment has been by and large awful, but people seem to agree more on that), much more than I expected. Nevertheless, I think taking over that Tottenham squad at the time, with lower expectations but also a more football-driven exec, and with buying taken out of his hands and with more humble, hard-working players in general (and a proper leader with standards in Kane), he would have done better than either of those two.

It's just been a toxic combination of circumstances - the pressure, spate of injuries (though again, his fans make too much of this), the makeup of the player-base, the ownership, and then ETH being indulged in his worst impulses around player purchases and sticking to a fairly small group of players even with all the demands, that has led to this. ..
 
Pitiful. Beyond pitiful.

There’s no pattern in what he’s trying to achieve. It’s like watching an under 7s match in junior league where all the kids just go and do what they want. The buck has to stop with him. Time for him to go now.
 
Dead man walking now unfortunately and this seems likely to leave us in an even worse position than managers before. Our squad is, frankly, awful. Fans have lost trust in players, players are on north of 200k per week, we can't sell anyone and we have £400m of signings that ETH made that are worth not even half that and nobody else will likely want (will anyone else persist with Antony? Mount in double-forward-pivot with Bruno?).
 
Hes taken full accountability and says they know the standards have dropped and it's up to him to raise it.
He can't say much else, hel have to show it immediately.
Yeah, if they come through this (I pray they do) it must be the absolute bottom of the trough. It could barely be worse than losing 3-0 at home to the Newcastle fringe.
 
It could be absolute bollocks but somebody on talk sport claimed to have spoken with a United coach after the Derby and said ETH didn't shout at the players because he's not allowed to or something to that effect.
 
This is a very clear clue that the man is hopeless. And stubbornly hopeless to boot because he’s still not changing it.

We just got booped by a City a few days ago. He has a tough game against Howes’ very well drilled Newcastle side. It’s a game where he has to get a result or risk being with one foot out the door. What does he do? He plays 4-3-3 with Casemiro alone in the only CM role after coming back from injury and Mount + Hannibal as AMs.

I mean, get fecked you idiot.
As if any other midfield combination would have looked definitely better. Sofa score average position map has us pretty compact in the center, not like Newcastle sliced us open on numerous occasions. Their goals came from a counter after individual mistakes and wonderstrike. Of course it is still a shitty result and we definitely looked helpless but I don't see what he could have done differently. Would you have wanted him to add more steel to midfield? McTom, Casemiro and Amrabat? Still wouldn't have been enough to outbattle Newcastle tonight. And they were two up, had he done that, he would have been criticized just as well.
 
It could be absolute bollocks but somebody on talk sport claimed to have spoken with a United coach after the Derby and said ETH didn't shout at the players because he's not allowed to or something to that effect.
Yeah sounds "likely"... Thats what the really evil people do, "you must not shout". Definitely a Glazer thing
 
Dead man walking now unfortunately and this seems likely to leave us in an even worse position than managers before. Our squad is, frankly, awful. Fans have lost trust in players, players are on north of 200k per week, we can't sell anyone and we have £400m of signings that ETH made that are worth not even half that and nobody else will likely want (will anyone else persist with Antony? Mount in double-forward-pivot with Bruno?).
I think if all his signings were properly fit and playing near their best level, they’d be in the team ahead of others in the squad. I don’t think his signings are bad, they are the right profile for modern football. It’s the old players that are the main problem. (Well everything is a problem at the moment.)
 
So just the £260m worth of talent or whatever it is then. Nobody else had ever heard of those guys of course.

Your replies are all weird non-applicable attempts at one-upping. So odd. From going on about Ragnick as a coach - when that wasn't the context - to now this. I mean, we did spend £400m under Ten Hag, no? Also, Alvarez was playing in Argentina then and these were pre world cup Enzo and Gvardiol. The fees they would have commanded likely wouldn't have been the same.
 
It could be absolute bollocks but somebody on talk sport claimed to have spoken with a United coach after the Derby and said ETH didn't shout at the players because he's not allowed to or something to that effect.
Why would you shout at people for them playing badly in a tactical system you told them to play in?
 
Selling fred was a big mIstake. Even though people here slated him, he was important. And i couldnt understand why he sold him for mount
 
I feel sorry for him but we're just so poor this season. Last year, other than few thrashings we experienced at Brentford, City and Liverpool, we were (especially at home) solid, resilient, good at the back, good enough in attack (though obviously lacking goals). Don't see any of it this year and we're back where we were 2 years ago.
 
Yeah, if they come through this (I pray they do) it must be the absolute bottom of the trough. It could barely be worse than losing 3-0 at home to the Newcastle fringe.

He's been tossing out the same words for weeks. He's yet to get a reaction from the players.

They only start playing with any urgency when they are 2-0 down but by then it's a low block.

We don't have a single player that can beat a low block. Brunos passing is dire and Rashford/Anthony both just cut inside and get beaten after trying to beat 3 players or try for a worldie but hit row Z.

I really feel for Hojland. There is not a single player in the team that's trying to supply him.
 
Can someone find or produce the average positions/pass maps for this game?
 
For feck sakes we are regretting selling Fred now? Sorry but nothing will change while we keep these clowns running the club. Giving every new manager money to go out and buy his players again and again is just crazy. But that said the ETH experiment needs to get its plug pulled asap.
 
It's become about more than just Ten Hag for me. After the last decade we just simply can't allow the players to 'win' in this scenario once again. The club has to stick with the manager.
 
Your replies are all weird non-applicable attempts at one-upping. So odd. From going on about Ragnick as a coach - when that wasn't the context - to now this. I mean, we did spend £400m under Ten Hag, no? Also, Alvarez was playing in Argentina then and these were pre world cup Enzo and Gvardiol. The fees they would have commanded likely wouldn't have been the same.

Thinking Ten Hag is not the guy is totally irrelevant to the fact that Rangnick was an utter waste of space. It's fecking dreamland to think it would all be different. A wet lettuce of a man.
 
There are many things I don't understand.

Why did we sell Fred and not McTominay? Why did we not bring in KMJ? I can go on, but we made quite a few horrifying player decisions the day ETH walked in the door. The man gets props for handling the Ronaldo situation brilliantly but apart from that his squad rebuilding has been ridiculous.

At this point, there is no tactical game plan anyone could come up with that would make any difference. The players are phoning it in and when they are trying hard they just don't know what to do.
 
Look at what Howe is getting out of Lascelles, Schar, Almeron, Joelinton, Murphy, Willock. All players signed by previous managers and who Newcastle fans thought were shite. They you have the local lads like Longstaf. Brilliant job.

Think back and look how hopeless those players looked at Newcastle when all then ownership toxicity was spreading throughout the club. Rafa, Steve Bruce etc etc.. it didn't matter who came in the whole club was toxic from top to bottom. They looked so much worse than Utd in every area. As soon as that was resolved and they won the lottery, Howe comes in and all of sudden there's a extra spring in everyones step, "because oh shit, if we dont step up, the club can replace us now." It lifted the whole place up several notches and gave the players a reason to up their game.

Utd are in that situation now, there's a toxicity from top to bottom, I'd say even the staff on the ticket office or in the shop feel it. There's a negative atmosphere surrounding the whole place. The players know the club can't afford to replace them, there's nothing driving them on, there's a real lack of drive. At this stage ETH will probably be sacked, but changing the manager might have a short term boost. But it will come back around and we'll be in the same situation with more or less this same group of shysters in 12 to 18 mths.

The whole ownership thing needs to be resolved, the club needs that toxic cloud to be lifted before we see any real positive change.
 
It's become about more than just Ten Hag for me. After the last decade we just simply can't allow the players to 'win' in this scenario once again. The club has to stick with the manager.
You think the players are choosing to play this way to ‘win’? Is that what you would do? Who needs glory and acclaim when you can just be shit instead? This manager wants us to win things but we’re no mugs, we’re going to get him sacked instead because feck everyone, that’s why.
 
You think the players are choosing to play this way to ‘win’? Is that what you would do? Who needs glory and acclaim when you can just be shit instead? This manager wants us to win things but we’re no mugs, we’re going to get him sacked instead because feck everyone, that’s why.
They think this is the easy way out because they believe the club will just sack another manager yes. History has told us that is exactly what will happen and many of them get a reprieve on their big contracts.
 
Yeah, if they come through this (I pray they do) it must be the absolute bottom of the trough. It could barely be worse than losing 3-0 at home to the Newcastle fringe.
Fringe team of a team playing well hockeys the fringe team of a team playing terribly for months, nothing incredibly surprising there. Certainly not a nadir.
 
He's clearly gonna get sacked, it's inevitable although until the spine of this squad is gone we're not doing shit. Let's be honest.
 
He's been tossing out the same words for weeks. He's yet to get a reaction from the players.

They only start playing with any urgency when they are 2-0 down but by then it's a low block.

We don't have a single player that can beat a low block. Brunos passing is dire and Rashford/Anthony both just cut inside and get beaten after trying to beat 3 players or try for a worldie but hit row Z.

I really feel for Hojland. There is not a single player in the team that's trying to supply him.
The football is dire. I mean, what else is there? If the football is dire that’s the start and end of it.

But I’m still up for not sacking managers willy-nilly. What the heck, we’ve got nothing to lose anymore. It’s actually fascinating to see how bad it can get.
 
They think this is the easy way out because they believe the club will just sack another manager yes. History has told us that is exactly what will happen and many of them get a reprieve on their big contracts.
So you don’t believe these players play for Manchester United because they want to win trophies and play for a massive club where the expectation is to win every game? Instead they would rather get a good manager sacked instead of work hard for those things? Have you heard this nonsense?
 
Re-wind the clock 18 months ago and everyone on this forum was clamouring for Ten Hag, last season was clear progress 2 cup finals and a 3rd place finish. We had the start of an identity last season - playing in the half spaces - overloads vs underloads, moving the play.
This season has been going pear shaped since July - from the shambolic ownership situation which doesn’t seem to ever resolve itself, to the complete mishandling of the Greenwood situation, to the copious injury list, to the Sancho situation, to the Antony situation. I actually feel sorry for Ten Hag. He’s not without his faults but he’s firefighting week after week.
That team that was out there tonight also was not Ten Hag’s team - Onana, Casemiro, Mount & Antony were the only 4 starters that Ten Hag has signed (excluding an emergency left back). That stinks of poor recruitment.
This doesn’t change until the whole club becomes aligned - which only happens when there’s new owners at board level filtering their vision down. Can you imagine the turmoil and unrest which must be going on within the club at the minute?
Ten Hag excelled at Ajax under structure - Overmars pulling the strings with the transfers and Van Der Sar at the helm. Give him the structure he needs and watch our fortunes turn.
What Ten Hag needs to do in the short term is inject some energy into the squad, bring Mainoo in for starters, give Pellistri game time on the right get fighters in the team.
 
Fringe team of a team playing well hockeys the fringe team of a team playing terribly for months, nothing incredibly surprising there. Certainly not a nadir.
I put it as the worst defeat of the year, easily.
 
Thinking Ten Hag is not the guy is totally irrelevant to the fact that Rangnick was an utter waste of space. It's fecking dreamland to think it would all be different. A wet lettuce of a man.

That's cool and all and how you feel - I hear that. However, the reported list of players Ragnick recommended included some really good players, hence talent ID - and mentioned in the context of his proposed consultancy role and the £400m's we've spent for the current manager.
 
So you don’t believe these players play for Manchester United because they want to win trophies and play for a massive club where the expectation is to win every game? Instead they would rather get a good manager sacked instead of work hard for those things? Have you heard this nonsense?
What kind of dream world do you fecking live in :lol:
 
Ten Hag didn't want that structure. He insisted that we get rid of Rangnick starting and wanted complete control of recruitment
 
7/11 starters tonight are ETH signings or academy players ETH has brought through. The manager’s fingerprints are all over this team.
 
Ten Hag didn't want that structure. He insisted that we get rid of Rangnick starting and wanted complete control of recruitment
If the Glazers were dumb enough to give him carte blanche then that's on them. He had not shown at any prior club that he was capable of handling everything like that.
 
For feck sakes we are regretting selling Fred now? Sorry but nothing will change while we keep these clowns running the club. Giving every new manager money to go out and buy his players again and again is just crazy. But that said the ETH experiment needs to get its plug pulled asap.
One of the few players that we had that would give his all every game. Man of match in some of our best performances last season. Yes, it was a mistake to sell him, add it to the list.
 
What kind of dream world do you fecking live in :lol:
:lol: You’re the one saying we can’t sack the manager because the players ‘win’!

It’s a fecking fantasy land where it’s them against us and the manager. They’ve got to be whipped and barked at to do anything noteworthy because they hate everything about playing football. Like they’re all here against their will, begrudgingly scoring goals and celebrating in front of the fans because the manager instructed them to.

Have a word with yourself. They want to win and perform more than you’ll ever know.
 
Thinking Ten Hag is not the guy is totally irrelevant to the fact that Rangnick was an utter waste of space. It's fecking dreamland to think it would all be different. A wet lettuce of a man.
He wasn't cut out for the mangers job. But if if he stayed and moved upstairs we would have established the role of DOF. A crap DOF is better than no DOF. At least it would be a start in moving into the 21st century.
 
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