Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[OrcaFat]

These posts are just insane when considering the literal fodder we were up against. Sheffield United are currently on course to be the worst team the PL has ever seen, after 9 games, not 1, 3 or 5.

An outright second string of ours has the quality to give them a beating and put on a display like we saw vs Palace in the league cup. There is no excuse for a performance like that with the players at our disposal. It is clear Sheffield are Championship team - it will take a miracle for them to stay up.

These complaints about squad depletion hold no weight when the team you can field obliterates the opposition in so many ways.

Our lack of our 1st team defence is not what is causing Bruno to blindly punt the ball, or have Rashford run into blind alleys, or have our midfield lose the midfield battle until Sheffield ran out of steam, nor have Antony play as badly as he did - our problems abound further up the pitch, clearly, not having our first choice backline compounds them, but it isn't the root cause.

There is nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. We are in contention for playing the worst football in the league and we are heavily reliant on moments winning us games. That's fine and dandy until we face teams who ours are not categorically better than, at which point we get "exposed" more often than not because hero ball has an increasing likelihood of failing, or worse, making us look miles off the teams with their shit together.

There is nothing worse than watching us after watching our rivals for CL qualification this season. Each team serving up slick, coherent, team-centric football played at pace. Then we come along with our unforced errors and hurried, chaotic play that makes you wonder what we do each week in training - us going last today really exemplified this as it shines a light on our football.

I have been ten Hag in from the outset, but it is abundantly clear that he is not getting any kind of tune out of this team. He needs to make changes and swallow some pride or he'll not have a job before long, regardless. You do not need to be full strength to comfortably handle the teams we've been shocking against, and squad depletion as an excuse for what we're seeing actually shines the spotlight back on the manager rather than exonerating him - as bad as anyone might say any individual we had in our back is, they, to a man, are far and away better than Sheffield's personnel.

I think you are underestimating the so-called poor teams in our league. They sometimes get smashed but they are all capable of a level which makes them tough to beat some days. City didn’t smash Sheff U, for example.

I also think you are overrating our top 4 rivals and underrating our play (which is inconsistent but good in spells) - the gap is smaller than you perceive imo.

It hasn’t been good enough but the important thing will be the overall position at the end of the season (in terms of results and performances).

 

[Sarni]

Injuries are playing their part massively obviously, but this football is painful to watch right now. Glad we won though!

We have almost our entire midfield (bar Casemiro) and all our forwards and wingers available. I don’t think we can justify the fact we can’t string three passes together with injuries anymore.

 

[flameinthesun]

Well, Bruno could be Tadić.

Garnacho is better then Neres.

We hoped Antony could be the Ziyech, but he's nowhere near.

He's still missing FDJ who was vital in that Ajax team, and a de Ligt.

We've got player to play like this, can't really put my finger on why are we so shit at football at the moment.

I think he is really missing a De Jong player. We have no one who is capable of taking the ball from deep and progressing it either through passing or dribbling. He's trying to get Bruno to be more involved in deeper build up but Bruno just doesn't have the consistency to do so effectively. When the middle is packed our progression just grinds to a halt. The only way to remedy that is through great positional play which we lack or with midfielders like De Jong who can take the ball under pressure in a packed midfield and progress it. It's also why some people are excited about Mainoo as he appears to have those attributes although its still early on.

 

[Insanity]

We won the game against Brentford by getting two injury time goals by hoofing it to McT or whoever in the box, so this genius' brilliant idea this game was to play without a midfield and start by using McT in a similar way....the plan came to fruition too but unfortunately the game had a lot of remaining this time. He course corrected in the second half after making the changes, but still our football and ball retention is too poor as the players are not trained in those aspects. We still keep playing those low percentage balls or hoofs. Needed a moment of magic from Dalot and some bad keeping to get the winner. After 9 games, the great Man Utd, one of the biggest spenders and highest paymasters in world football have a negative goal difference. The job is simply too big for him.

Still unbelievable to me that this guy didn't sign a proper central midfield in the summer. There seems to be an early acceptance this time, unlike with Antony, that Mount (btw, how slow is this guy!) is a useless signing. The only half decent CM we have is Eriksen, and as good as his passing and vision is, he doesn't stand a chance against energetic PL midfields. People blame our forwards but our build up is so slow and ponderous that it leaves too much onus on the attack to produce moments of magic. We don't move the ball fast enough to create spaces and situations for us to isolate the opposition defenses.

We have made the wrong appointment again. Got a thoroughly mediocre manager and allowed him squander away millions of dollars. The only question remaining is whether he goes after the City game or after we can no longer mathematically get top 4, but his days are numbered.

The sad part is that there is no obvious managerial appointment on the horizon. The two best managers on the planet are at our closest rivals and there is no up and coming manager who stands out (yeah, De Zerbi is not the answer). Anyway, any new manager will need a top class recruitment team behind them. We cannot again give them a carte blanche to spend stupid money on duds that have played under them previously or they are aware of.

Let's see what genius can a committee of a British businessman with a history of bidding for various clubs, Joel fecking Glazer and a new minister of Dope can come up with to change the fortunes of the club. Grim!

 

[flameinthesun]

I think you are underestimating the so-called poor teams in our league. They sometimes get smashed but they are all capable of a level which makes them tough to beat some days. City didn’t smash Sheff U, for example.

I also think you are overrating our top 4 rivals and underrating our play (which is inconsistent but good in spells) - the gap is smaller than you perceive imo.

It hasn’t been good enough but the important thing will be the overall position at the end of the season (in terms of results and performances).

I think the good thing is despite all the injuries and the awful form of most of the players we are not too far behind points wise. Hopefully with a first choice defense and some consistency in the squad selection we gain regain some form.

 

[Romez]

We won an away game comfortably in the end. Why are people calling for his head after yesterday? Did I miss something? Did he shit on the badge?

Your standards are in the gutter if that was a comfortable win.

Against the worst team in the league too.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

I don't understand how he spent so much money in the summer and took a meaningful step backwards from last season. He found something in the Casemiro, Eriksen, Bruno midfield, which he seems to have shelved completely. He seems intent on playing Rashford and Antony into form despite neither looking anywhere near their best this season and Antony carrying legal problems. He talks so much about accountability and yet neither Garnacho nor Mejbri can buy a start despite outplaying Rashford and Mount on both ends. He needs to get a hold of himself soon or else, the aura he seems to command from Murtough won't save him when a bigger boy like Mitchell enters the sporting side.

 

[Amar__]

I don't understand how he spent so much money in the summer and took a meaningful step backwards from last season. He found something in the Casemiro, Eriksen, Bruno midfield, which he seems to have shelved completely. He seems intent on playing Rashford and Antony into form despite neither looking anywhere near their best this season and Antony carrying legal problems. He talks so much about accountability and yet neither Garnacho nor Mejbri doesn't get the start despite outplaying Rashford an Mount on both ends. He needs to get a hold of himself soon or else, the aura he seems to command from Murtough won't save him when a bigger boy like Mitchell enters the sporting side.

Yeah, nothing he does makes abaolutely any sense. The fact that he plays Mctominay explains that he doesn't care about midfield or improving our play, but it's rather short term oriented to results, considering he even left his expensive signing in Mount on the bench.

He is absolutely clueless at the moment at anything except insisting on starting Bruno and Rashford for some reason, despite both of them potentially costing him his job.

 

[VP89]

Yeah, nothing he does makes abaolutely any sense. The fact that he plays Mctominay explains that he doesn't care about midfield or improving our play, but it's rather short term oriented to results, considering he even left his expensive signing in Mount on the bench.

He is absolutely clueless at the moment at anything except insisting on starting Bruno and Rashford for some reason, despite both of them potentially costing him his job.

Casemiro needed a rest and I think he opted for physicality for a reason away from home to Sheffield.

I agree he should stop his over insistence on Rashford and even Bruno too though.

 

[Judas]

We have almost our entire midfield (bar Casemiro) and all our forwards and wingers available. I don’t think we can justify the fact we can’t string three passes together with injuries anymore.

I do agree to a certain extent, I don’t think it truly excuses just how awful we look in attack, pass the ball and operate. It’s not as if we’re free scoring but due to our defense letting in a hatful out the back. But you could argue we’re being more conservative and pragmatic due to who we have playing at the back?

All I know is, I’m not enjoying what I’m seeing, and expect a bit better at this point.

 

[Leftback99]

I think too many invested all their stock in Ten Hag after that one game (followed up by later losing to a pretty average Spurs side).

"He had a team playing like this once surely he can repeat it" - football doesn't work like that.

 

[Marwood]

He knows the team is too direct. He said it about the first half yesterday. So he has to work out why we're still playing like that this far into his tenure.

Would love to see him asked the question.

 

[Dec9003]

Seems like your patience didn’t last very long

Why are you looking through my posts. I think giving a manager well over a year and literally hundreds of millions to bring in ex players is backing and patience. Especially if one of them players getting injured means we can’t play well until he’s back.

 

[Sarni]

I do agree to a certain extent, I don’t think it truly excuses just how awful we look in attack, pass the ball and operate. It’s not as if we’re free scoring but due to our defense letting in a hatful out the back. But you could argue we’re being more conservative and pragmatic due to who we have playing at the back?

All I know is, I’m not enjoying what I’m seeing, and expect a bit better at this point.

I have seen so many teams play decent football with makeshift defenses that I just don’t buy it.

It’s actually very rare to have all your midfielders and forwards available at the same time and we have been in this position for nearly all of the two months yet show no coherence whatsoever.

 

[Acquire Me]

Grown men with patience like kids on Christmas. That’s the Caf for you.

 

[Borys]

The major issue for Ten Hag is, by and large, the players still look like they're trying to remember their lines. Nothing has become instinctive or automatic. There was a period in the first half where we condensed the left half of the pitch, and it looked so training ground. Like, you could see the cogs turning in the players' heads. It didn't feel organic, like when you see teams like City or Barcelona do it. It was like the difference between watching a top actor and someone doing a little bit of weekend theatre. Confidence comes into it I guess. However, after a year with the team, you would expect better.

I like that phrase. It looked like that in first few games indeed. But at the moment it doesn't look like anything. Just one player standing in midfield (Amrabat, was Casemiro), 4 defenders passing the ball slowly and the rest standing in their positions high up the pitch. This team looks like they've been told to stand in certain areas and wait for something to happen.

It doesn't seem to me like we have anyone coaching those players. We only look like a proper team when Eriksen comes on (that has to happen only when the opposition is slightly tired) and we have an actual 2 man midfield and there's more space and time for attacking players.

 

[Jericholyte2]

These posts are just insane when considering the literal fodder we were up against. Sheffield United are currently on course to be the worst team the PL has ever seen, after 9 games, not 1, 3 or 5.

An outright second string of ours has the quality to give them a beating and put on a display like we saw vs Palace in the league cup. There is no excuse for a performance like that with the players at our disposal. It is clear Sheffield are Championship team - it will take a miracle for them to stay up.

These complaints about squad depletion hold no weight when the team you can field obliterates the opposition in so many ways.

Our lack of our 1st team defence is not what is causing Bruno to blindly punt the ball, or have Rashford run into blind alleys, or have our midfield lose the midfield battle until Sheffield ran out of steam, nor have Antony play as badly as he did - our problems abound further up the pitch, clearly, not having our first choice backline compounds them, but it isn't the root cause.

There is nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade. We are in contention for playing the worst football in the league and we are heavily reliant on moments winning us games. That's fine and dandy until we face teams who ours are not categorically better than, at which point we get "exposed" more often than not because hero ball has an increasing likelihood of failing, or worse, making us look miles off the teams with their shit together.

There is nothing worse than watching us after watching our rivals for CL qualification this season. Each team serving up slick, coherent, team-centric football played at pace. Then we come along with our unforced errors and hurried, chaotic play that makes you wonder what we do each week in training - us going last today really exemplified this as it shines a light on our football.

I have been ten Hag in from the outset, but it is abundantly clear that he is not getting any kind of tune out of this team. He needs to make changes and swallow some pride or he'll not have a job before long, regardless. You do not need to be full strength to comfortably handle the teams we've been shocking against, and squad depletion as an excuse for what we're seeing actually shines the spotlight back on the manager rather than exonerating him - as bad as anyone might say any individual we had in our back is, they, to a man, are far and away better than Sheffield's personnel.

And likewise, these posts are clearly from people stuck in 2008. Our first team is borderline Top 4/5 and our second string is just appallingly bad.

Let’s look individually:

Onana: a good GK who’s never had a secure back four in front of him
Dalot: a fair FB who everyone would have been pretty happy to sell had we got a replacement in
Maguire: often referred to as one of our worst ever signings. Seen as a laughing stock and barely PL quality by some hyperbolic folk.
Evans: given a pity contract to get fit and then a longer pity contract as we couldn’t afford a CB who was already at a club
Lindelof: a fine CB but not a LB.

The team also included McT, Eriksen, Antony and Rashford, with reviews ranging from useless, not physical enough for the PL, a waste of money and a man stealing a living based on prior reputation.

 

[NinjaZombie]

Everything just looks so wrong. We've got McTominay as some kind of false CM. Bruno is Bruno. No nous about him in terms of building up play. So we're using the inverted wingbacks and our centre backs to get into the centre midfield area to build up play, which they look useless at.

He's setting the team up to play in a certain kind of way that the players don't look equipped for. Why is that? Why do the players look clueless? What are we doing in training? Are the players just too thick? Or is the coaching not up to standards? Are the players just refusing to follow instructions? Or are they incapable of it? So many questions. With us having so many injuries, can't he just simplify things so we can at least look cohesive until the likes of Shaw and Martinez comes back? I'd get it if he was being dogmatic and wanting the players to play a certain kind of way regardless, but at least have the balls to drop players who don't look up to it. Play the ones who have looked capable of following his instructions, and drop the ones who don't, regardless of their stature.

 

[RedStarUnited]

Grown men with patience like kids on Christmas. That’s the Caf for you.

Why does Newcastle play better football than us? They finished 11th before the Saudis really started spending.

 

[Borys]

I have seen so many teams play decent football with makeshift defenses that I just don’t buy it.

It’s actually very rare to have all your midfielders and forwards available at the same time and we have been in this position for nearly all of the two months yet show no coherence whatsoever.

The makeshift defense is an issue because we the midfield ETH sets up doesn't have any playmaking function. By design there's one player in Central areas, yesterday Amrabat, usually Casemiro. So the weight of playmaking and getting the ball to forwards is on our defense, what would be OK (not perfect) of we had Martinez and Shaw, but now we should adapt and shift that weight to midfield. That doesn't seem to be in ETH plans though.

We always look best (competent) when we have 2 actual midfielders in Central areas. Casemiro Eriksen, Casemiro Mainoo, Amrabat Eriksen (i don't count in McTominay as he didn't play CM role yesterday). And yet I'd bet we will start one midfielder on Tuesday night and keep wondering why this is not working.

Edit: by the way, we played similar way under Ole (bypassing the midfield in build up). But that kind of made sense because we had solid (defensively) midfield that at the very least made it difficult for the opponents, and we had much better attack than now with fit Martial and Greenwood firing. What we're doing now doesn't make much sense to me.

 

[Leftback99]

And likewise, these posts are clearly from people stuck in 2008. Our first team is borderline Top 4/5 and our second string is just appallingly bad.

Let’s look individually:

Onana: a good GK who’s never had a secure back four in front of him
Dalot: a fair FB who everyone would have been pretty happy to sell had we got a replacement in
Maguire: often referred to as one of our worst ever signings. Seen as a laughing stock and barely PL quality by some hyperbolic folk.
Evans: given a pity contract to get fit and then a longer pity contract as we couldn’t afford a CB who was already at a club
Lindelof: a fine CB but not a LB.

The team also included McT, Eriksen, Antony and Rashford, with reviews ranging from useless, not physical enough for the PL, a waste of money and a man stealing a living based on prior reputation.

He's spent £400m on it. Most glaringly £90m on Antony leaving us completely hamstrung for goals given he neither creates or scores but starts every game when fit.

A team devoid of any physicality like he's never watched the PL before.

 

[GreatDane]

Grown men with patience like kids on Christmas. That’s the Caf for you.

I've been pretty patient for about 10 years now. And I actually like Ten Hag, but I'd like to see some better football soon.

 

[AndySmith1990]

Grown men with patience like kids on Christmas. That’s the Caf for you.

Typical condescending post from someone who blindly supports like a sheep, in an attempt to silence deserved criticism of a poor manager

 

[TheReligion]

Why are you looking through my posts. I think giving a manager well over a year and literally hundreds of millions to bring in ex players is backing and patience. Especially if one of them players getting injured means we can’t play well until he’s back.

Just found it interesting that a year ago you said it was a huge job and we needed to give him a few seasons whilst now you’re persistently wanting his head whilst wilfully trying to find odd reasons to ignore the injury crisis and impact on the team.

Anyway. You do you

 

[Dec9003]

Just found it interesting that a year ago you said it was a huge job and we needed to give him a few seasons whilst now you’re persistently wanting his head whilst wilfully trying to find odd reasons to ignore the injury crisis and impact on the team.

Anyway. You do you

Why are you lying now, I said he needs a season or two, the former he has had. It is a huge job which is why we need a better manager to do it. The injury crisis from a few weeks ago when we didn’t have Hojlund or any defenders has passed now, it’s not a valid excuse for the lack of progression regarding style of play.

 

[TheReligion]

Why are you lying now, I said he needs a season or two, the former he has had. It is a huge job which is why we need a better manager to do it. The injury crisis from a few weeks ago when we didn’t have Hojlund or any defenders has passed now, it’s not a valid excuse for the lack of progression regarding style of play.

I’m not lying. You said it as quoted. Patience is a virtue.

If only having one fit full back at the club isn’t an injury crisis (not even mentioning the others out) then not sure what is.

 

[OrcaFat]

Why are you lying now, I said he needs a season or two, the former he has had. It is a huge job which is why we need a better manager to do it. The injury crisis from a few weeks ago when we didn’t have Hojlund or any defenders has passed now, it’s not a valid excuse for the lack of progression regarding style of play.

I’m sorry but our style of play is obvious even if you don’t like it. The problem is not a lack of style it is the inconsistent execution of the style and poor form of our attackers.

 

[Dec9003]

I’m not lying. You said it as quoted. Patience is a virtue.

If only having one fit full back at the club isn’t an injury crisis (not even mentioning the others out) then not sure what is.

I don’t know if English is your second language but a few seasons would be three or more. We’re going in circles but the fact of the matter is the team should be looking more like a coached side considering the investment, trust and patience we’ve had in the manager. This season has been poor and has been a continuation on the end of last season, I don’t think he is the right man for the job, you do, time will tell.

 

[Dec9003]

I’m sorry but our style of play is obvious even if you don’t like it. The problem is not a lack of style it is the inconsistent execution of the style and poor form of our attackers.

Yeah, I don’t like it, we’ve not progressed. The problem is at the moment we’re not well coached and we’ve been stubborn with our selection of out of form players. The transfers we’ve made in the summer raised more questions than answers in terms of how we want to play when we’re at our best.

 

[e.cantona]

Our defenders yesterday are all experienced PL, CL and international players. They've played at the highest level for most of their careers. Same goes for most of our starting XI yesterday. A "one off" bad performance against one of the poorest teams in the league shouldn't be a problem. But in his second season, having spent a hell of a lot of money, poor performances' become the norm. He should be getting a better tune out of his team. Even with his "backup XI".

 

[TheReligion]

I don’t know if English is your second language but a few seasons would be three or more. We’re going in circles but the fact of the matter is the team should be looking more like a coached side considering the investment, trust and patience we’ve had in the manager. This season has been poor and has been a continuation on the end of last season, I don’t think he is the right man for the job, you do, time will tell.

Few means a small number of.

i.e more than one

Look it up.

 

[Rista]

We have to let the plan play out for once. Over a long period, we will see the team resemble the manager’s vision. Nobody knows if it is going to be enough but it is better to push through the development period instead of starting a new cycle and cutting that one short when (shock!) we don’t look like world beaters after one season and nine games.

This is why clubs don't do this. "Nobody knows" is not something you want to gamble your club's future with.

Just sacking managers is not the solution but neither is sticking with something that isn't working. That's why there's no easy fix. What we can do is see what other successful clubs are doing and it's most certainly not randomly giving managers 5 years time. The sooner we forget the next SAF idea the better.

 

[Maureen-yo]

I’m sorry but our style of play is obvious even if you don’t like it. The problem is not a lack of style it is the inconsistent execution of the style and poor form of our attackers.

In your opinion, what is our style? I’m not being disingenuous here just can’t see it myself.

 

[Redstain]

He's underwhelming and as the games progress is losing more credibility as time goes on. The team is too fractured from a coaching perspective. I posted in another thread that a style of play is the succussion of doing a multitude of elements consistently throughout different situations of a game (build up, retention and recovery). It's all disjointed which tells me that United have another manager to add to the list that cannot in the slightest be considered a good or even adequate coach. 400m spent and 18months worth of sessions and the team look even less dynamic than the managers breakout season.

I think ETH will go this season because by March his position will be untenable. The fixtures are disastrous for a team that is struggling against lower half opposition. The only aspect that will dent this predication is if other teams slip up which will mask the teams league position. But throughout December I'm anticipating back to back to back losses. I do hope Erik can turn it around in all honesty but it feels like this team is doing a factory reset every 90 mins.

 

[Jericholyte2]

We win 2-1, we hit the woodwork twice, and have at least two other cases where, if the forwards were more composed they score…

CAF: THIS IS UNACCEPTABLY SHIT!!!

 

[Moston Red]

1986 was nearly 40 years ago. Stop living in the past.

I was referring to when SAF took charge. If social media and internet forums existed then he’d have been slaughtered at the beginning.

 

[Acquire Me]

Why does Newcastle play better football than us? They finished 11th before the Saudis really started spending.

They got a better setup from top to bottom. The players inherited also matched the managers style imo. They did better than expected. So hats off to a system working.

Typical condescending post from someone who blindly supports like a sheep, in an attempt to silence deserved criticism of a poor manager

I don’t blindly support. I genuinely think ten Hag should get the time he needs. I like his work and style. Also we are in a process with new owners and I believe we will be better and better in the long run.

Also stats never lie. Most people stand behind him. That’s a fact.

 

[ayushreddevil9]

I was referring to when SAF took charge. If social media and internet forums existed then he’d have been slaughtered at the beginning.

Okay. Does that have anything to with today? How many managers have been able to turn it around? SAF, Arteta, .... ?

 

[Di Maria's angel]

I have seen so many teams play decent football with makeshift defenses that I just don’t buy it.

It’s actually very rare to have all your midfielders and forwards available at the same time and we have been in this position for nearly all of the two months yet show no coherence whatsoever.

Apart from the fact that Mount has been injured, Amrabat also injured/came in late, Sancho is gone, Antony just came back from leave, Casemiro also now injured. Hard to take this serious when you're spouting lies.

 

[RedStarUnited]

They got a better setup from top to bottom. The players inherited also matched the managers style imo. They did better than expected. So hats off to a system working.

Not sure how you can quantify this. I think point im making is Newcastle were coming from further behind than us and have seemingly worse players but are a better team.

If we played great football and just didnt win enough a lot of us would be happy. But our footballs horrible.