Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Chumpsbechumps said:
Nope, it’s a click bait question. Fan’s discussing a topic ad nauseam is different from Journalists wasting our managers time answering the same question with the same answer . To be fair you expect bottom feeder journos to ask these stupid questions.

This idea that “it’s the job” to keep asking the same question is nonsense. We will learn nothing about the Sancho situation until either party comes out with something. Just wastes everybody’s time so they can write about nothing changing with Sancho and maybe twist some story out of it.
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I agree fully with @RORY65 response to your post and would like to add thst in a way press conferences are a waste of manager's time anyways. Speaking to the press doesn't improve his team but keeps him away from it. It is just a part of the job, that you have to spend time with the press to keep the news flowing and keep people interested. Football gossip is part of the media circus that creates and keeps people engaged with football and ensures money is flowing.

Stuff like the Sancho drama - while bad for the club - keeps the PL going (of course you primarily want real sports news, but these stories are like salt in a soup - you need the right amount but not too much)
 
Judas said:
Yep. It’s a total rewriting of history to pretend it was so clear things were building and going in the right direction under him.
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This isn't true though is it? You can go to the Arteta thread and look. This isn't a rewriting of history, the posts are there. I repeatedly pointed out the work he and the rest of the backroom staff was doing, and predicted where they'd end up. As did others. I had people tagging me with a laughing emoji when they'd lose.

ETH is in a similar position now, where the results and performances aren't there, but big changes are being made in the way the team approaches games.
 
RORY65 said:
It's literally the thread below this one and has 127 pages so presumably quite a lot of people are interested. Once they had an argument in public and United made a statement about him being dropped from the 1st team it became a perfectly obvious question to raise in each press conference.
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People aren’t really interested in the Sancho story though, look through the thread now it’s just a way to either slate the manager or slate the player. It’s literally the most non news worthy story we’ve had recently (player who rarely starts, doesn’t start and isn’t as good as other players in training). It’s quite a boring story.
 
I'm fully with ETH than I am with any coach post SAF.
This is going to be a rough campaign though.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
People aren’t really interested in the Sancho story though, look through the thread now it’s just a way to either slate the manager or slate the player. It’s literally the most non news worthy story we’ve had recently (player who rarely starts, doesn’t start and isn’t as good as other players in training). It’s quite a boring story.
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I agree that it's boring but it's still a story to be asked about in case there is any update. These press conferences are largely a waste of time, the managers don't want to be there, Ten Hag is hardly the most charismatic or dynamic figure so he seldom says anything of interest anyway, and a lot of them just lie throughout them (Ferguson was the king of this although Ten Hag does it too), but if they're going to happen then it's a question to ask otherwise they're going to be sat there in silence for half an hour and then just leave.
 
redshaw said:
At Arsenal things on the pitch weren't clicking in those two years but we did have lots of talk from key fans and media about the progress off the pitch, everything was being put in place with EDU and so on, not just the manager. They had a good reset and looked at young players.

Still we don't know how long it will last, can they be as strong as last year?
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Yes, Arteta also changed the culture of the club off the pitch. He wanted to forge a stronger connection with the fans and instill a more "family feel" within the team. He didn't want cliques forming and players' families are invited to attend training camps. He even brought in a dog :lol:

Regarding building his team, yes he largely invested in young players. He has an obvious age profile (usually under 25yrs) and won't pay more than about £45mil for an older player. Partey is the most expensive player he's signed over 27yrs (£45mil).
 
Cascarino said:
I’m pretty sure we had a few back and forths in his thread where I kept explaining to you what he was doing.
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Cascarino said:
This isn't true though is it? You can go to the Arteta thread and look. This isn't a rewriting of history, the posts are there. I repeatedly pointed out the work he and the rest of the backroom staff was doing, and predicted where they'd end up. As did others.
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We are talking about different periods. I am talking about late 2020 when Arsenal were losing every other game and playing like shit.

You barely have any posts in that thread during this period (October 2020 to late December 2020). The ones you did make are:

Cascarino said:
He’s done well so far. I do think the football is pretty dire to watch, but the squad is fairly shite and I don’t think it’s a bad call to be more pragmatic.
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Cascarino said:
I think talking solely about Arteta it’s a mixed bag, he’s playing shite football but it’s a weird season and I think the squad is utterly awful, I can’t think of many of their players getting into the starting 11s of the other top 6 clubs. Still results have been poor and the lack of chances created is dreadful.
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Iker Quesadillas said:
We are talking about different periods. I am talking about late 2020 when Arsenal were losing every other game and playing like shit.

You barely have any posts in that thread during this period (October 2020 to late December 2020). The ones you did make are:
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You've just proved my point? I pointed out the results and performances were crap, but that he was doing a good job so far, going in the right direction, and explained that the squad wasn't up to scratch compared to their competitors. And then these are from the month after that post (which is the period you were talking about, this point in ETH's tenure). Like I said, there's a fair few similarities with their stints so far, but ETH has outperformed him.

Cascarino said:
He has a long way to go but a lot of the criticism he has faced in this thread has been over the top.
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Cascarino said:
Yeah, it’s been undoubtedly over the top imo. And I somewhat get it, Arteta quickly became a media darling and as football tends to do, everything become hyperbolic. He wasn’t just a promising manager, he was already “elite”, he had a cerebral approach and was the second coming of Michels, despite the fairly conservative approach he had.

I think a lot of the most vocal in this thread, aggrieved at the often disrespectful way the media and fans spoke about Solksjaer, have been overzealous in sticking the knife in. There’s been little acknowledgement of the context of the squad, or the position they were in when he took over, or that he’s a completely rookie manager who hasn’t completed a full season yet.

It’s very early days for him, he won the FA cup which was a good sign, and while the football has often been pretty crap to watch there’s obvious signs of how he wants his team to play. I think managers need a little time to bring in players to implement their style and to work on the existing personnel.

I’m not sure what you’re getting at with your Lingard and Peireira point tbh. Other than Partey and a couple free agent transfers Arteta hasn’t been able bring anyone in, so I’m not sure what you’re getting at there.
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Cascarino said:
You've just proved my point? I pointed out the results and performances were crap, but that he was doing a good job so far, going in the right direction
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You didn't say that in either of the posts. You said the manager was adopting a pragmatic approach because the squad was shit, that is the opposite of going in the right direction.

Cascarino said:
And then these are from the month after that post
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That is a different period. Which is kind of the point.

With few exceptions, you can't really 'see' what a manager is doing at a top club if they're losing every other match. Because losing every other match means nothing is working.

When things work in most matches but there are some inconsistencies, then that is different.
 
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Iker Quesadillas said:
You didn't say that in either of the posts.
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What does "He's done well so far" mean to you? " there’s obvious signs of how he wants his team to play. I think managers need a little time to bring in players to implement their style and to work on the existing personnel. "

Iker Quesadillas said:
That is a different period.
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Why would you count end of December but not mid Jan? It was 13 months into his tenure, ETH is what 17 months into his?

Come on man you're really stretching here.
 
We are talking about the period of time when Arsenal's results were abysmal because we are comparing Arteta to Eric Ten Hag, whose Manchester United are currently in a run of abysmal results. This is more relevant than whether the exact day and time lines up.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
With few exceptions, you can't really 'see' what a manager is doing at a top club if they're losing every other match. Because losing every other match means nothing is working.

When things work in most matches but there are some inconsistencies, then that is different.
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Of course you can. You can see what ETH is trying to do now. Just because he's not winning doesn't mean it's not obvious what kind of approach they're trying to go with. It's just as apparent as if they were winning every game.
Iker Quesadillas said:
We are talking about the period of time when Arsenal's results were abysmal because we are comparing Arteta to Eric Ten Hag, whose Manchester United are currently in a run of abysmal results. This is more relevant than whether the exact day and time lines up.
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Right :)
 
Cascarino said:
Just because he's not winning doesn't mean it's not obvious what kind of approach they're trying to go with.
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The quote we have from you is that Arteta was adapting a pragmatic approach because the squad was shit. Not that Arteta was adopting the current approach and it wasn't working well yet.
 
While I am with ETH been given more time i am worried that he is pinning his flag to the Rashford/ Bruno mast and not dropping them. The same two have let numerous managers down and seen em off with this whole.....we go again B/S!!
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
The quote we have from you is that Arteta was adapting a pragmatic approach because the squad was shit. Not that Arteta was adopting the current approach and it wasn't working well yet.
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This is getting a little weird man, you keep changing the goalposts, and I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve.

Cascarino said:
It’s very early days for him, he won the FA cup which was a good sign, and while the football has often been pretty crap to watch there’s obvious signs of how he wants his team to play. I think managers need a little time to bring in players to implement their style and to work on the existing personnel.
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This was exactly during the time you were talking about. If you want I can give you a more in depth explanation into what these signs were of how he wants his team to play. And I could do that for most teams in the PL and championship, regardless of what their win percentage is. If you want I'll tell you what ETH is doing with Man Utd's approach atm. Just because their results have been iffy doesn't mean it's not apparent what he's trying to do.
 
side note - i was looking for team news, and found a french United twitter fan page with plus half a million followers and caught myself in a rabbit hole just reading the comments to their posts - was annoying having to click on "translate this tweet" every time, but it's crazy how passionate people are about United. Sometimes (recent times) I forget how big this club is

hopefully a win today to calm everyone
 
GoonerGirly said:
Yes, Arteta also changed the culture of the club off the pitch. He wanted to forge a stronger connection with the fans and instill a more "family feel" within the team. He didn't want cliques forming and players' families are invited to attend training camps. He even brought in a dog :lol:

Regarding building his team, yes he largely invested in young players. He has an obvious age profile (usually under 25yrs) and won't pay more than about £45mil for an older player. Partey is the most expensive player he's signed over 27yrs (£45mil).
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Is that soleley Arteta's call or Edu and management's philosophy? Definitely seems more football ops decision than a managerial choice, unless the manager has final say on all recruitment business for Arsenal.
 
Cascarino said:
I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve.
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It's pretty simple. This is the original post I responded to:

poleglass red said:
Arteta at Arsenal, he's not won anything but he's been a lot closer in the league than we've been, same thing, he took his time to settle but you could see what he wanted to install.
I'm all for giving the manger time but he needs to start implementing his style of play. Right now we are back playing Ole style, trying to play on the counter or rely on brilliance.
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My simple point is that, when things were really bad for Arsenal, you could not "see" that he was trying to install/implement their current style of play. One of your few posts from that time seemingly backs this point: you say Arteta was being "more pragmatic" because the squad was so shit.
 
ShinjiNinja26 said:
This. Arteta’s first couple of seasons there the football was garbage, it only really started clicking for them properly last season. That was evident by the fact most people didn’t even have them finishing top 4 never mind challenging for the league.
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I don't think it was garbage I remember very consisely they kept conceding goals trying to play it out from the back. Got hammered by the pundits for it. Once the team settled with what to do in possession over time the attacking patterns and phases of play began to come into fruition. There's no comparison with Eth either way because you can't buy Casemiro, Mount and play them with Bruno and expect to have a significant tactical approach that imposes itself on the opposition.

Additionally, before anyone says Liverpool were a transition team they were arguably the second best team with how efficient they were in possession. Erik ten hag has just as much to prove as a new signing coming in, he's got to earn himself time which he has to some degree with the accomplishments of last season. But there is a bar with how low the ball can drop with this team and it feels like many fans on these threads are using Arteta as an excuse to cover for the calamity of a very poor league finish and season.

Historically if the manager doesn't get a European spot this season after the financial outlay I think that veers into the untenable category.
 
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MrMarcello said:
Is that soleley Arteta's call or Edu and management's philosophy? Definitely seems more football ops decision than a managerial choice, unless the manager has final say on all recruitment business for Arsenal.
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I'm sure it's both. Arteta surely has huge say in recruitment - Rice for example is someone Arteta has admired for a long time. Rice has stated numerous times that Arteta was probably the biggest reason he chose Arsenal.
 
Iker Quesadillas said:
It's pretty simple. This is the original post I responded to:



My simple point is that, when things were really bad for Arsenal, you could not "see" that he was trying to install/implement their current style of play. One of your few posts from that time seemingly backs this point: you say Arteta was being "more pragmatic" because the squad was so shit.
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Yes, and as I just showed you I also said "while the football has often been pretty crap to watch there’s obvious signs of how he wants his team to play", which is a fairly non-negotiable statement. I'm not sure why you're so adamant the fact other people could see something you couldn't.
 
Cascarino said:
Yes, and as I just showed you I also said "while the football has often been pretty crap to watch there’s obvious signs of how he wants his team to play", which is a fairly non-negotiable statement. I'm not sure why you're so adamant that other people could see something you couldn't.
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You could easily discern what Mikel was doing the moment he took over that team.
 
He's not doing himself any favours with this refusal to drop underperforming players. For his sake I hope he manages a convincing win but if we don't score an early goal I don't expect a win especially when the Old Trafford crown gets to passive and restless.
 
Black Adder said:
As I've already said, for me, his biggest failing is talking about standards yet giving underperforming players chance after chance although they're not good enough.

You can bet your life on Onana, Casemiro, Rashford and Bruno starting next match when neither of those should be anywhere near first 11 based on their current form.
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He just won't drop underperforming players no matter what.
 
It’s the same old signs that we are seeing all over again.

Losses and abject displays, increasing “leaks” about the club, player and manager public spat, sub optimal team selections, refusal to drop underperforming players.

Unless he can produce a run of wins to relieve the pressure, ETH’s days here are numbered. Then the manager hire-fire cycle restarts again.
 
Signing Onana will be his downfall. Get rid. I’m done with him now.

I’ve stood by him all the way up until this point. But enough is enough.
 
Signing shit players is his downfall.. well along with his shit tactics, stubbornness.
 
This is his midfield by the way. No excuses. This is exactly what he wanted this season and still absolutely rubbish.
 
Manncunian said:
Signing Onana will be his downfall. Get rid. I’m done with him now.

I’ve stood by him all the way up until this point. But enough is enough.
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Keep him. We keep losing and the Glazers will sell. Gives new owners time to bring their manager in.
 
Sacked before Christmas…. Very sad because he’s a decent coach. He’s bought awfully and can’t get the best out of them
 
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