Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[DSG]

Brighton beg to differ. Im pretty sure it's the norm for the best teams to have more possession not the other way around.

Really? Last time I checked, Real Madrid won 4 CLs in 5 years without massive advantages in possession.

We’re miles from a Brighton. And there’s consistency with their possession, they have been drilled to utilize the wings and switch fields of play quickly. We aren’t doing any of that.

 

[TsuWave]

I just fundamentally disagree. At most, you can judge ETH on the profile of player he's signed. It's not his job to identify or sign talent.

There's not really anything to disagree with - you're talking about culpability in regards to our structure. Your words were - "No modern manager should have full authority over transfers". That's not the conversation I'm having, nor is it something I disagree with. I'm saying that we spent a lot on players he wanted and most of them have question marks hanging over them. Talent identification is important for managers even at clubs with a proper direction and DoF structure - it allows them to select teams and develop youth appropriately.

It is what it is.

 

[DSG]

Real Madrid always have a great team and the last time they had a rot akin to ours was almost 15 years ago. If it was us that wasted 100m on Hazard we wouldn't have won in CL in the fallout after that signing, we would still be playing him hoping to unlock him.

Real Madrid buy the best players. And they hire the best managers. Yes, they have a stinker every now and again, but they also bought Modric, Benzema, Vinicius, Bellingham, Rodrygo, Valverde, Camavinga, etc. I don’t think they’ve ever had rot like ours. 15 years ago they bought Ronaldo….

 

[Waynne]

One of these days something is going to click and we're going to go on a run of wins. I can feel it.

I'd rather stick with this manager and get the passengers out like Rashford, Maguire and McTominay.

Despite the results I remain optimistic.

 

[DSG]

We had barely more possession against Galatasaray, at home, in fact, the only games this season where we've had more possession than the opponent is Wolves, Forest, and Palace x2, 3 of which we won. Our number 10 who was playing as a winger gave the ball away 27 times, our DM gave it away 18 times, our other midfielder who was having a decent game gave it away 10 times. This team is patently not safe on the ball. How the feck is that LvG style?

You arent creating chances when every 2nd or 3rd passes turn into loss of possession. We need to ditch this stone age mentality of trying to get the ball up the pitch with as few passes as possible as our primary means of chance creation, this is what we've been trying to do for a long time, it's not working.

You mean like Klopp? How is attacking vertically stone age tactics? It’s precisely what teams like Napoli and Liverpool are doing. What you are unhappy about is our execution of this. Absolutely nothing wrong with our first goal today — perfectly executed. We should have had another goal on the Rashford breakaway.

The fact that our players are giving the ball away again and again is poor execution. We were giving the ball away on simple passes, it wasn’t just the so-called Hollywood balls.

Face it, ETH has not prepared this team well for the season. The training has not resulted in better play. We aren’t finishing well. We are disorganized when we are defending. More possession for the sake of possession is not going to improve results. Now, I empathize with Ten Hag because we have so many injuries, but every team has injuries and it’s his responsibility to have squad players ready to contribute.

 

[Theonas]

Real Madrid buy the best players. And they hire the best managers. Yes, they have a stinker every now and again, but they also bought Modric, Benzema, Vinicius, Bellingham, Rodrigues, Valverde, Camavinga, etc. I don’t think they’ve ever had rot like ours. 15 years ago they bought Ronaldo….

They most definitely don’t always. They regularly go for some promising young Spanish manager or ex player, some work like Zidane or Del Bosque, some fail like Lopetegui. They even went for the likes of Luxembourgo, Rafa and Pellegrini. Rarely is the manager the protagonist at that club.

 

[Waynne]

You mean like Klopp? How is attacking vertically stone age tactics? It’s precisely what teams like Napoli and Liverpool are doing. What you are unhappy about is our execution of this. Absolutely nothing wrong with our first goal today — perfectly executed. We should have had another goal on the Rashford breakaway.

The fact that our players are giving the ball away again and again is poor execution. We were giving the ball away on simple passes, it wasn’t just the so-called Hollywood balls.

Face it, ETH has not prepared this team well for the season. The training has not resulted in better play. We aren’t finishing well. We are disorganized when we are defending. More possession for the sake of possession is not going to improve results. Now, I empathize with Ten Hag because we have so many injuries, but every team has injuries and it’s his responsibility to have squad players ready to contribute.

This is key and 100% on the money.

 

[sglowrider]

Hojlund is most likely scout recommendation as it’s been reported we have been scouting Hojlund since his early days at Copenhagen (20-22). And that’s before ETH arrives here.

My guess is, out of all players we’ve signed, mostly likely signings recommended by him are:

Malacia
Martinez
Antony
Eriksen
Weghorst
Mount
Onana
Amrabat

And signings most likely recommended by scouts:

Casemiro
Hojlund
Evans
Sabitzer
Bayindir
Reguilon

But I really had no idea about Sabitzer, Bayindir, Reguilon sighing. Could be recommended by either.

12 current players within 2 summer windows!! I dont think any past managers have had this level of support. Average of 6 per summer window.

Jose would be turning over in his United grave by now. But it might be that silver lining. Potential managers will know that we can have that level of resources available.

 

[sglowrider]

Records broken so far this season -

- Galatasaray hadn't won a game on English soil in 117 years of existing, until Erik Ten Hag.

- Manchester United had never lost the opening 2 CL group games, until Erik Ten Hag.

- Manchester United had never conceded 7 goals in the opening 2 CL group games, until Erik Ten Hag.

- Manchester United had never conceded 3+ goals in back to back CL games, until Erik Ten Hag

- Galatasaray hadn't scored in or won an away goal in the CL since 2015, 3 in one game as soon as they meet Erik Ten Hag.

- Manchester United hadn't lost 4 of the opening 7 games in PL history, until Erik Ten Hag

- Manchester United haven't had as few as 9 points from the opening 7 games since 1989, until Erik Ten Hag

- Manchester United hadn't conceded 4 goals in a CL group game in 28 years, until Erik Ten Hag.

- Manchester United hadn't conceded 3+ goals in 3 consecutive games since 1978, until Erik Ten Hag.

- Manchester United had never lost at the Tottenham Hotspur stadium, until Erik Ten Hag.

- Manchester United hadn't lost the opening two away games since 1973-74, until Erik Ten Hag.

- Manchester United hadn't conceded more than one goal in 4 consecutive league games since 1979, Until Erik Ten Hag

. - Manchester United had never conceded 2 goals in the opening 4 minutes of a PL game at Old Trafford, Until Erik Ten Hag

- Manchester United had never conceded 23 shots in one game at Old Trafford in PL history, Until Erik Ten Hag

- Brighton had never won twice in a row at Old Trafford, until Erik Ten Hag

As Oscar Wilde once said:

“There's only one thing in the world worse than being talked about, and that is not being talked about.”

 

[Stabra]

Is a non match fit Antony any better? Pellestri?

Sancho.
But that would hurt his pride. So he decides to put his pride above the current club results. In the short term this looks like a mistake, in the long term we will see.....

 

[ayushreddevil9]

Sancho.
But that would hurt his pride. So he decides to put his pride above the current club results. In the short term this looks like a mistake, in the long term we will see.....

Classic case of a player becoming our savior the more time they spend not playing.

Have people forgotten how bad Sancho has been for us?

 

[sglowrider]

Classic case of a player becoming our savior the more time they spend not playing.

Have people forgotten how bad Sancho has been for us?

Also if he plays Sancho now without an apology from Sancho, it will only enhance player power and his ability to manage them.

 

[mav_9me]

Yeah. I'm not convinced he knows how to turn this around. He's had to deal with a lot and it's not easy. But again, we need someone who can deal with adversity and know when to shut up shop, abandon tactics to go simpler rather than be stubborn and stick with failing tactics. I don't think the tactics will always be failing, but they need adjusting until we find confidence again. He seems like he's just stubborn though and is repeating the same mistakes every game. You need to know the softer side of management and I'm not sure if he has that

The interesting thing though is he changed after the first 2 games last season. I am surprised by his stubbornness this season.

This has to change. The defense has to become way way better. For that he has to change the midfield. Casemiro needs more help in there. We just have to become extremely dull and hard to score against. Back to basics.

https://x.com/OptaJoe/status/1709318376080679380?s=20

 

[Stabra]

Also if he plays Sancho now without an apology from Sancho, it will only enhance player power and his ability to manage them.

Would it stop the club from selling Sancho anyway if the manager lets him play?
Just because he is in the squad, sits on the bench, is sometimes substituted for 20-25 minutes or starts in some games, so that the regular players get a break, doesn't mean that everything is forgotten. He is a resource and you should exploit that until you get rid of it. Especially in times when other resources are not there or don't produce anything.

 

[sglowrider]

The interesting thing though is he changed after the first 2 games last season. I am surprised by his stubbornness this season.

This has to change. The defense has to become way way better. For that he has to change the midfield. Casemiro needs more help in there. We just have to become extremely dull and hard to score against. Back to basics.

https://x.com/OptaJoe/status/1709318376080679380?s=20

Maybe because he now feels that with his 12 players who he thinks compliments his style of play, he doesn't need to compromise?

 

[sglowrider]

Would it stop the club from selling Sancho anyway if the manager lets him play?
Just because he is in the squad, sits on the bench, is sometimes substituted for 20-25 minutes or starts in some games, so that the regular players get a break, doesn't mean that everything is forgotten. He is a resource and you should exploit that until you get rid of it. Especially in times when other resources are not there or don't produce anything.

The RW is not our biggest issue. It's the defensive mid's ineptness, LW and CB that are problematic.

 

[rebornsoull]

Come on, Sancho is not going to save us is he? He's been bang average since joining. I'm backing the manager no matter what.

Arsenal backed Arteta when he had a horrendous run of results 2 seasons ago.

 

[Andersonson]

Boring football
Terrible results
Shite transfers

But he aint the issue? He buys players from his brothers agency ffs

 

[DSG]

They most definitely don’t always. They regularly go for some promising young Spanish manager or ex player, some work like Zidane or Del Bosque, some fail like Lopetegui. They even went for the likes of Luxembourgo, Rafa and Pellegrini. Rarely is the manager the protagonist at that club.

And when that manager fails he’s shown the door immediately. And they hire the best manager available.

Zidane wasn’t the protagonist? Mourinho? Ancelotti, twice? Del Bosque? Capello?

 

[1988]

My biggest issue with him is how terrible his transfers have been. And he's not ruthless enough. We've had players playing well below average for some time now. Bench them. Fernandes, Rashford, Casemiro, Onana etc.

 

[sglowrider]

My biggest issue with him is how terrible his transfers have been. And he's not ruthless loyal enough. We've had players playing well below average for some time now. Bench them. Fernandes, Rashford, Casemiro, Onana etc.

Fixed

 

[DSG]

Amrabat at left back. No. Just because it worked against Crystal Palace B, doesn't mean it will work against a decent team.

Why not put Maguire or Evans at CB, then have Dalot lb and Lindelof at rb.

Ten Hag would rather pick his biggest names and have them out of position, than put players in their natural position, or at least close to.

Daft decision.

Let’s play Amrabaat next to Casemiro in a 4-2-3-1 with Lindelof at RB like you said. I made this comment after the Palace loss, thinking there’s no way he plays Amrabaat at LB again…. Is Amrabaat a big name? I think he’s trying to be way to clever by having his fullbacks pinch in. It’s not working…

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Those constant long balls from Casemiro, Bruno, and some of the defenders that make us concede possession is infuriating. Is this really how he wants us to play? I wouldn’t be surprised giving some of his quotes this season about being the best transition team. I remember Liverpool, who were really good at transitions, also used to hit the ball long very frequently

 

[Oscar Bonavena]

Is a non match fit Antony any better? Pellestri?

Yes, Pellistri if needs be. He's a right winger with pace.

Playing Bruno on the right is something that has never worked and will never work, and yet he continues to persist with it.

 

[DSG]

I just fundamentally disagree. At most, you can judge ETH on the profile of player he's signed. It's not his job to identify or sign talent.

This actually has been extensively reported on and is probably similar at many clubs including City and Liverpool. ETH has veto power over transfers. Murtagh/ Fletcher / Scouts provide transfer targets, both through regular on the ground scouting as well as suggestions from coaching staff. Those targets are analyzed. ETH has veto power for any player he does not want. Period. He had to sign off on every transfer over his 3 transfer windows. We don’t know if he vetoed a bunch of other players, potentially good ones. But we do know he did not veto any of his signings. It’s also possible that he sent targets to the scouting team to analyze and confirm as targets (Antony, Malacia, etc).

As such, he’s absolutely at least partially responsible for our transfers.

 

[sglowrider]

Those constant long balls from Casemiro, Bruno, and some of the defenders that make us concede possession is infuriating. Is this really how he wants us to play? I wouldn’t be surprised giving some of his quotes this season about being the best transition team. I remember Liverpool, who were really good at transitions, also used to hit the ball long very frequently

The ball will always be faster than humans. Maybe that's what he meant. Nothing transitions faster than long balls.

 

[CannibalSpectre]

Do we know Hojlund was his recommendation? No Dutch connection there or players that his teams have played against like Kane, Mount, or Malacia. Hojlund may be the recruitment team's recommendation.

Hojlund is an SEG agency client and so is ETH. It's owned by Ten Hags close friend Kees Vos. Gakpo signed with them before Ten Hag attempted to sign him for united and they negotiated Amrabat's loan deal.

 

[quadrant]

I don't think switching out managers now is going to make a difference this season, especially since the available alternatives are hardly awe inspiring.

I still think he's approaching the rebuild of the club in the right way. He's changing the club culture and the playing style and the squad and the recruitment all at once. I do think he's struggling and needs help, but I don't disagree with his approach. I also fail to see who out there wouldn't struggle with the scale
of this job when they have such jokers around them.

However it'd be foolish to suggest that he can go on like this forever. It's clear a lot of fans have the knives out and people don't like to change their mind. He needs a major change of form between now and the City game or that could be his last. Another few defeats and he might not even make that. Then we'd have another season written off and we're back to square one with another rebuild. Depressing.

 

[GreatDane]

Our best game this season (the only decent one?) has been without Rashford and Bruno, ETH needs to let those two ride the bench or he'll be jobhunting by January.

 

[vanderpants]

@vanderpants you're in trouble

Yeah we all got called into a meeting yesterday about it believe me there's more than just one "mole"

 

[Redstain]

He is on thin ice and the ice is melting fast. I want to back him but he is in deep trouble if we lose this weekend as well. You cannot be losing to palace at home and Galatasaray at home.

I personally don't see EtH in charge at the end of the season. Two simplistic reasons dreadful away form that was persistent last season and now the home form that was the cause of the success of last season has evaporated. Tactically the team look dysfunctional, good managers are able to shorten the bad string of results. It's nearly impossible to be perfect throughout a 38 game campaign but what we are seeing is a capitulation.

Hope I'm wrong to be honest but everything I've said throughout summer has come into fruition, I made repeated posts about Murtough's incompetence and targeting the wrong players during the summer. I said this team would finish 6th before the season started and even the current performances are falling below that ridiculous expectation. Recruitment has largely failed this team and it's not necessarily indicative of the signings being bad players but ones that don't move the needle enough when it comes to first team quality.

Hojlund however has been excellent and if there's one thing to take from this, it's a player who has no former relation with the manager, it's clear evidence of scouting infrastructure being used so tell me why the majority of United signings are not made with this similar focus and intent. It's a recipe for success and if United had use this model for various positions around the pitch the dynamic of the team would be far different as younger hungrier players with no correlation to EtH have everything to prove and are receptive of his instructions.

 

[Mourinhonista]

De Gea, Ronaldo and Sancho must be pissing their pants. He'll be gone soon enough, absolute disaster.

 

[norm87cro]

Look I really wanted him to be a success (as did 99% of here Im sure) but you just simply cant have this strict attitude towards players and the way you approach the game without results backing you up.
He has been very rigid and pretty sure of himself without really backing anything up by this point. We dont have a squad like City but surley this team has enough fire power to beat Crystal Palace and Galatasaray?

 

[manichester]

Why is Casemiro playing more like an 8 than a DM , this must be ETH instructions, Mount is not an 8 or even a decent 10. Stop experimenting and put players in their normal positions.

 

[Black Adder]

As I've already said, for me, his biggest failing is talking about standards yet giving underperforming players chance after chance although they're not good enough.

You can bet your life on Onana, Casemiro, Rashford and Bruno starting next match when neither of those should be anywhere near first 11 based on their current form.

 

[Dans]

Amrabat at left back. No. Just because it worked against Crystal Palace B, doesn't mean it will work against a decent team.

Why not put Maguire or Evans at CB, then have Dalot lb and Lindelof at rb.

Ten Hag would rather pick his biggest names and have them out of position, than put players in their natural position, or at least close to.

Daft decision.

In the situation we find ourselves, perhaps a 3-5-2 is worth trying? 3 CBs.

 

[Escobar]

Our best game this season (the only decent one?) has been without Rashford and Bruno, ETH needs to let those two ride the bench or he'll be jobhunting by January.

If he does not find that ruthlessness he had last season, it will be the start of the end. He avoids making big decisions and as he really needs to drop Bruno and Case and Rashford until they improve. I doubt he will though but I dont understand why he is not changing things when it is clearly not working.
At the same time, you really do wonder what we do in training, as on the pitch, it looks like we are not doing much during these sessions, he and the team look clueless

 

[Mullet_Man]

The results are bad, it is starting to feel like the last days of all the previous managers and we haven't even come up against Liverpool or City yet.

Am not at sack just yet but something just isn't feeling right with him.

 

[kouroux]

Amrabat at left back. No. Just because it worked against Crystal Palace B, doesn't mean it will work against a decent team.

Why not put Maguire or Evans at CB, then have Dalot lb and Lindelof at rb.

Ten Hag would rather pick his biggest names and have them out of position, than put players in their natural position, or at least close to.

Daft decision.

I'd find some sense to this decision if Amrabat was left footed at least

 

[sglowrider]

Hojlund is an SEG agency client and so is ETH. It's owned by Ten Hags close friend Kees Vos. Gakpo signed with them before Ten Hag attempted to sign him for united and they negotiated Amrabat's loan deal.

Forgot about that. We need to invent a game called 2 degrees of separation of Ten Hag.