Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[JPRouve]

Oh I quite agree. The fitness of the whole squad has been crap for years. I do think Shaw is high maintenance, but don’t think it’s fair to single him out.

Interesting that you mention 2014 as the start of the poor fitness era. I didn’t particularly notice it during LvG’s time, nor even the first part of Jose’s. We’d got really lethargic by the second half of 17/18 though; Jose seemed to start coasting in the job after he’d got his new contract, and his attitude of course spread to the players.

2014 started with Moyes in charge. It’s been widely reported that he ripped up the gentle training regimes that SAF had put in place for injury-prone players (Rio and RvP especially), forcing them to join in with all the sessions, which effectively finished their careers. Maybe the higher-ups warned subsequent managers to go easy on the players?

I started in summer 2014 for no good reason, other than the fact that we didn't had any good runs unlike following seasons. The 2013/2014 season ended in similar fashion to most seasons that followed 5 wins, 4 losses and a draw.

 

[laughtersassassin]

Sounds like he won't be getting much backing as they are talking about easing expectations and that it's a long term project.

 

[Redfrog]

Or Shaw, Hazard, Rooney have terrible feeding habits and Ronaldo doesn't. Which seems very likely.

No, you can’t dismiss the different body shapes. Some people will naturally tend to being fat and need to be extra careful with what they are eating and the exercises they are doing. Some other can eat anything and stay lean. It’s unfair but that’s it. Food and exercises can make a difference of course but people like Ronaldo or Bruno are skinny naturally and will do the opposite of Shaw, they will need a tone of gym to gain some extra muscles.

 

[evil_geko]

Sounds like he won't be getting much backing as they are talking about easing expectations and that it's a long term project.

No matter how many players we buy, it was always going to be long term project, you can't just buy tons of new players and gel them all in immediately. So yeah, expectations should be eased in, it is repeated so many times that he should be given time to make his magic work, but I guess with United fanbase that is impossible to ask. I already feel sorry for the guy.

 

[Flexdegea]

Thought this was Ten Hag thread

Thread totally ruined now with pages of discussion about Shaw Physique

 

[AjaxCunian]

No, you can’t dismiss the different body shapes. Some people will naturally tend to being fat and need to be extra careful with what they are eating and the exercises they are doing. Some other can eat anything and stay lean. It’s unfair but that’s it. Food and exercises can make a difference of course but people like Ronaldo or Bruno are skinny naturally and will do the opposite of Shaw, they will need a tone of gym to gain some extra muscles.

You dont really know whether they are skinny per default or they have always had a diet that caused for them to maintain low body fat.

Yes genetics, and metabolism play a role but with Shaw, it really does point to lack of discipline/professionalism seeing how his body has changed over the years.

But hey, today I learned that being in shape is of no benefit for athletes and that there is probably 1% between Shaw and KDB. I'll rest here.

 

[laughtersassassin]

No matter how many players we buy, it was always going to be long term project, you can't just buy tons of new players and gel them all in immediately. So yeah, expectations should be eased in, it is repeated so many times that he should be given time to make his magic work, but I guess with United fanbase that is impossible to ask. I already feel sorry for the guy.

I'm blaming the club not Erik.

The team has zero chemistry so we can and should just buy a lot of players at once.

We are losing way too many to only buy 2-3 even 4 players.

You'll never catch Liverpool or City without a few mega transfer windows.

Take our centre Midfield for example. We have Fred McTominay and Garner. None should be starting for United. We need minimum 2 top players in that position alone to not be fecked next season.

This isn't a normal summer and can't be treated as one

 

[AltiUn]

Anyone else slightly concerned he's only been pictured in one suit, did he forget to pack another? Do we need this level of absent-mindedness at this club? Very worrying.

 

[Revaulx]

I started in summer 2014 for no good reason,other the fact that we didn't had any good runs unlike following seasons. The 2013/2014 season ended in similar fashion to most seasons that followed 5 wins, 4 losses and a draw.

True! The only season that finished in a way that left me feeling optimistic about the next was Ole’s first full one. But then the players had had a nice long lockdown-imposed break for three months

 

[Trex]

You dont really know whether they are skinny per default or they have always had a diet that caused for them to maintain low body fat.

Yes genetics, and metabolism play a role but with Shaw, it really does point to lack of discipline/professionalism seeing how his body has changed over the years.

But hey, today I learned that being in shape is of no benefit for athletes and that there is probably 1% between Shaw and KDB. I'll rest here.

You can tell if a player is lean by default, just google photos of what this players look like in their late teens. Ronaldo was skinny, in fact that was one of the issues he needed to sort out to make it big time, Rooney was already looking like a grown man at 18, Shaw was in the EPL team of the season playing at Southampton because he had the physique to go with his technical abilities.

 

[Van Piorsing]

Take our centre Midfield for example. We have Fred McTominay and Garner. None should be starting for United. We need minimum 2 top players in that position alone to not be fecked next season.

We're fecked, big time and for few good years indeed. Released Herrera for free, ran Matić to the ground, didn't provide Pogba a leader who would steer him towards tactical discipline, couldn't even sign one bloody player in winter.

So far midfield is beyond repairing, even if United hires Pep. Club's allergy to DM role is legendary.

Ten Hag is set to fail in his first season and it's not doom & gloom talk. Current state says it loud & clear.

 

[AjaxCunian]

You can tell if a player is lean by default, just google photos of what this players look like in their late teens. Ronaldo was skinny, in fact that was one of the issues he needed to sort out to make it big time, Rooney was already looking like a grown man at 18, Shaw was in the EPL team of the season playing at Southampton because he had the physique to go with his technical abilities.

You are assuming a default, maybe Ronaldo was an active teen that didn't eat in a caloric surplus for most of his teens.

I did, and gained weight. Doesnt mean being fat is my default.

 

[Utuhu]

Anyone else slightly concerned he's only been pictured in one suit, did he forget to pack another? Do we need this level of absent-mindedness at this club? Very worrying.

You are very funny.

 

[Bubz27]

I don't want Shaw gone because he has a Dad bod.

I want him gone because he's a half arsed Southampton twat who gets "injured" every time the club are playing shit.

Ay now, be careful pal. Born in London. Won't have a bad word said about Southampton. The town, not the team. They can feck off.

 

[Trex]

You are assuming a default, maybe Ronaldo was an active teen that didn't eat in a caloric surplus for most of his teens.

I did, and gained weight. Doesnt mean being fat is my default.

You're arguing for the sake of it now, you know its OK to not know it all right.

 

[Marwood]

No it didn’t. Rooney didn’t decline because of his body fat percentage, he decline because he’d been running his arse off at the top level since he was 16.

Yeah it's possible. Lot of miles on that clock from an early age.

But I also think its too much of a coincidence that a footballer who didn't look after himself dropped off badly around 27/28. Then take a look at him now.

It could be a coincidence but common sense suggests one had something to do with the other.

But Rooney still won everything, still hit that high peak for a few seasons.

But this current bunch, they're wasting it all. In part because they're probably not fit enough.

So ten Haags first job is to sort out who wants to be a top level athlete and who just wants to get paid like a top level athlete.

 

[mctrials23]

The team has zero chemistry so we can and should just buy a lot of players at once.

You'll never catch Liverpool or City without a few mega transfer windows.

Take our centre Midfield for example. We have Fred McTominay and Garner. None should be starting for United. We need minimum 2 top players in that position alone to not be fecked next season.

This isn't a normal summer and can't be treated as one

You can't and shouldn't do that. Its not the chemistry issue, its cost and value. He hasn't even had a season to know what sort of players he wants/needs vs the players he has access to.

If you look at Liverpool they have been good at spending big when they think its worth it (Alisson,VVD) but they have largely bought players they think will suit the system and improved and integrated them.

Look at the Liverpool side.

How many of their players were in massive demand before they bought them? How many of them were uber expensive.

Thats part of the reason I am excited for ETH. We are moving away from this stupid idea that star players make a good team and moving towards the idea that the right players make a good team. A star player is pointless if they don't complement the collective. You figure out what sort of team you are building, what you need to priorities to get the most bang for your buck and then you can worry about adding those finishing touches in the form of super expensive players that are already the finished article.

We can't/wont spend £300m in one transfer window so we have to be smart. A good transfer window and a good manager will see us back in the top 4 next season and then we can start to think about what we need to do to compete with Liverpool and City.

 

[SATA]

Why is a Ten Hag thread turning into a Luke Shaw bodyweight topic ffs

 

[laughtersassassin]

You can't and shouldn't do that. Its not the chemistry issue, its cost and value. He hasn't even had a season to know what sort of players he wants/needs vs the players he has access to.

If you look at Liverpool they have been good at spending big when they think its worth it (Alisson,VVD) but they have largely bought players they think will suit the system and improved and integrated them.

Look at the Liverpool side.

How many of their players were in massive demand before they bought them? How many of them were uber expensive.

Thats part of the reason I am excited for ETH. We are moving away from this stupid idea that star players make a good team and moving towards the idea that the right players make a good team. A star player is pointless if they don't complement the collective. You figure out what sort of team you are building, what you need to priorities to get the most bang for your buck and then you can worry about adding those finishing touches in the form of super expensive players that are already the finished article.

We can't/wont spend £300m in one transfer window so we have to be smart. A good transfer window and a good manager will see us back in the top 4 next season and then we can start to think about what we need to do to compete with Liverpool and City.

How many players do you think we need to achieve top 4 and a trophy which should be the goal?

Bare in mind how many are leaving. Batye in mind how many are useless. And bare in mind our central Midfield options are unarguably up there with the worst in the Prem right now.

 

[Plant0x84]

Anyone else slightly concerned he's only been pictured in one suit, did he forget to pack another? Do we need this level of absent-mindedness at this club? Very worrying.

I did wonder if he had only come in what he was wearing to be honest, although maybe it’s a signal of his ruthless efficiency that he only needs 1 suit, 2 shirts and 5 pairs of pants/socks to see him through the week. He has no time for such fluffery as different coloured suits or multiple outfits.

 

[Loon]

Anyone else slightly concerned he's only been pictured in one suit, did he forget to pack another? Do we need this level of absent-mindedness at this club? Very worrying.

Maybe he's like Einstein and has the same set of clothes for every day so he can devote his thoughts to loftier goals, like how to stop Fernandes moaning?

 

[Terranova]

I did wonder if he had only come in what he was wearing to be honest, although maybe it’s a signal of his ruthless efficiency that he only needs 1 suit, 2 shirts and 5 pairs of pants/socks to see him through the week. He has no time for such fluffery as different coloured suits or multiple outfits.

He probably only has the one suit. Seeing that usually he gets a costume from the clubs he manages.

 

[mctrials23]

How many players do you think we need to achieve top 4 and a trophy which should be the goal?

Bare in mind how many are leaving. Batye in mind how many are useless. And bare in mind our central Midfield options are unarguably up there with the worst in the Prem right now.

Personally I think 4-5 players. 2 CMs, 1CB, 1 wide forward and a RB. That should get us top 4 if the team takes on board what ETH and his coaches are saying. We fundamentally have a decent enough set of players who would be sniffing around top 4 next season simply if they got behind the manager and gave it their all.

I think that is the far bigger determining factor than a couple of players. Football at the top level is a game of fine margins and knock on effects. Thats why its so easy to go from the top to trash really fast. When your attackers aren't firing and your midfield isn't performing your defenders are suddenly under much more pressure and the opposition is comfortable attacking a lot more and committing more players forward. Just fixing a few things in the team would make a huge difference to the whole output from top to bottom in this squad.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Prime Rooney was no where close to the weight he finished his career on at Utd and he was gone and buried by 30. Shaw is overweight. Im slimmer than him and im overweight. If he lost some bf we would be alot better for it. Not saying he needs muscle as that needs more oxygen however he does need to lose bf.

Rooney has a very similar body type to Shaw. They just look porky.

 

[Lebo]

I see a lot of people complaining about the lack of high squad turnover. In my opinion, that will not solve our problems one bit. What he needs to do is assess players that are obviously talented (according to him)but not putting up good performances and try to address that.

After that then we can proceed to signing those players that we need. It doesn’t necessarily have to be in different windows but a good preseason may be enough. Signing players because we need a new player is some of the reasons why we have 6 players we signed recently needs to be replaced according to the CAF.

When Klopp was taking over at Liverpool, most people would have advocated for the sale of Henderson for example. Turns out he is the one who is gonna lead them during their most successful era in the past 30yrs

 

[laughtersassassin]

Personally I think 4-5 players. 2 CMs, 1CB, 1 wide forward and a RB. That should get us top 4 if the team takes on board what ETH and his coaches are saying. We fundamentally have a decent enough set of players who would be sniffing around top 4 next season simply if they got behind the manager and gave it their all.

I think that is the far bigger determining factor than a couple of players. Football at the top level is a game of fine margins and knock on effects. Thats why its so easy to go from the top to trash really fast. When your attackers aren't firing and your midfield isn't performing your defenders are suddenly under much more pressure and the opposition is comfortable attacking a lot more and committing more players forward. Just fixing a few things in the team would make a huge difference to the whole output from top to bottom in this squad.

I think we need 6.

4 won't have us at a chance but 5 just might if they all hit the ground running. Suppose we aren't too far away on opinions.

Just feel we are losing a lot even if they are flawed so we will need a lot in. Also some people seem to forget how we will need to replace Greenwood.

 

[Redfrog]

You dont really know whether they are skinny per default or they have always had a diet that caused for them to maintain low body fat.

Yes genetics, and metabolism play a role but with Shaw, it really does point to lack of discipline/professionalism seeing how his body has changed over the years.

But hey, today I learned that being in shape is of no benefit for athletes and that there is probably 1% between Shaw and KDB. I'll rest here.

Shaw is a strong lad, you can see it. Don’t you think I can’t see Bruno is skinny as f*ck ? I saw a documentary on Ronaldo. He was described as a skinny boy who always had double gym work to be stronger.

Who says it doesn’t matter to be in shape ? You just make it look like Shaw shouldn’t have any fat. Shape is not just about how you look.

 

[AneRu]

Most of the snakes are moving on or being sold, which snakes will we have remaining

Pogba, Lingaard, Cavani (sulking) gone.

Bailly (taking the piss)
Henderson (sulking)
Martial (poor attitude)
All looking like theyl be sold this summer or loaned out.

Thatd only leave Rashford for me who's shown a questionable attitude. See the man City walk about cameo.

I think the rest in the squad just suffer from being not good enough. So I don't we l have any little snake cliques left.

I'd be intrigued to hear of any you think are snakes thatl be in the squad next season

Agree with that but I think Rashford is the most toxic one but he us just being protected by the club and his media pals.

 

[AneRu]

I think we need 6.

4 won't have us at a chance but 5 just might if they all hit the ground running. Suppose we aren't too far away on opinions.

Just feel we are losing a lot even if they are flawed so we will need a lot in. Also some people seem to forget how we will need to replace Greenwood.

I think 6 is the optimal number because we absolutely need a CB, RB, DM, CM, RW and ST. I think we could get away with functional players at RW and ST not really starters but journeymen who could be relied upon to deliver abd still not sulk if benched.

 

[Irwin99]

I'd be very surprised if we get more than 4-5 players. Really hoping for two midfielders and especially a right back because i don't want another season of those full backs (i'm hoping Shaw might return to form). I'd guess:

A versatile right back/centre back
two midfielders
one versatile forward.

 

[Trex]

I think 6 is the optimal number because we absolutely need a CB, RB, DM, CM, RW and ST. I think we could get away with functional players at RW and ST not really starters but journeymen who could be relied upon to deliver abd still not sulk if benched.

We're not buying right wingers, I expect Sancho to play that role next season, and be backed up by the younger wingers (A mad, Elanga).

 

[Rocknrolla69er]

Agree with that but I think Rashford is the most toxic one but he us just being protected by the club and his media pals.

I won't argue with that, I think the little Pogba, Lingaard, Rashford, Martial clique has alot to answer for

 

[Buster15]

Not sure why, given our previous attempts to replace Sir Alex, but I have a good feeling about Ten Hag.
Eventually we have to get it right. And the leaders of the club seem to have realised that the fundamentals of the way it has been mismanaged are badly hurting the bottom line.
We are hemorrhaging global fans to Liverpool and City.
But it is not going to change overnight and we must be patient.

 

[IceManFtw]

He looks the part

 

[Loon]

He is my number one choice, but I remain cautiously optimistic.

 

[bosskeano]

This guy is a real football guy...a proven coach who's worked under some really high profile coaches and plays some proper football

Players need a change in attitude, some players need to be removed and some new exciting players need to be brought into the squad...give this guy some proper backing and let him get after it

 

[choccy77]

Hasn't signed a single player, been here 5 days already and done nothing, terrible man.

 

[Giggsyking]

 

[Cafer007]

Agree with that but I think Rashford is the most toxic one but he us just being protected by the club and his media pals.

Agree that he is not the most technically gifted player and didnt play well last year but I am not sure on what basis people are branding him as toxic.
He never issued any wrong statements about club or openly defended his friends, so what wrong he did?

Most of our players were average last year because of sudden adjustment to Ronaldo's arrival / Management changes and it had impact on the whole team so better we give everyone a clean sheet and start from the scratch.

We have many other pressing issues than Rashford at this moment and hopefully Rashford comes good under Ten Hag's coaching methods.

 

[NLunited]

I don’t agree that the current squad is all that bad. The best squad in the world will look poor if managed poorly. With two or three additions we should be all sorted.