Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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VP89 said:
We aren't though
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Unless you are talking geographically, you are though. Ten Hag's ramblings about injuries and 'never having his best XI' available are the words of a desperate man.

He is in charge of the most expensive squad in the world man, and has them playing the worst football Utd have played for 40 years?
 
fallengt said:
You missed Tottenham 1st half? United shouldve scored 1-2 goals there . Even the stat agreed.
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Being better than a not so good team doesn't equate to us being good or very good. Don't understand, why thats such a problem to understand. Some of you (not you necessarily are obsessed with relative comparisons, which is fine and makes sense to a degree, but it clouds the bigger picture).

VP89 said:
This video is fearmongering, I think this analysis is better:



^ It's a long video but the crux of it is, the formation had a lot of value in attack and we looked very threatening. But we should tweak to a better defensive system when off the ball. This is interesting because its easy to trash the diamond formation just because we lost, but there is value in pursuing it.
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Statman Dave will find something good in everything United does. Thats his niche and as far as I know, he has even been acknowledged by the club already. Doesn't mean, everything he says is wrong, but you can be sure, that you aren't going to get an objective report. He will try to find a positive spin on everything. Be that worldclass Shaw or Bruno or Onana or now the diamond system. He spent most of the summer telling us how wonderful life will be when we finally can play with a box midfield with Mount and Bruno...

NLunited said:
What I saw was we didn‘t deal with the next phases of Brighton‘s attack. There is a plan for every phase.

After the goal we stopped pressing effectively, that‘s not on Ten Hag.

They scored from a cross that should have been blocked. The crosser wasn‘t tightly marked, the cross not cut out and no one picked up Wellbeck. Their first chance that was created by at least two consecutive mistakes.

I‘ve seen the analyses of the game, but Wellbeck picking up the ball far into our half is not a fecking problem, that is exactly what we want. The mistakes are in the next phases.

I think the team lost confidence in the plan and stopped following the rules.

Of course some of the blame rests with Ten Hag, but we all could see the players who stopped pressing and the individual mistakes.
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What you saw is fine but there where many outlets who reported on WHY "the press stopped effectively". It has nothing to do with us doing something right and then just stop it for no reason. Brighton adjusted their shape which would have/ might have required a re-adjustment by ETH. Of course the result of the game isn't only on ETH, but while his initial idea made some sense and contributed to us not being carved open through the middle, he didn't have an idea how to stop them making use of the open wide areas instead.
 
NLunited said:
What I saw was we didn‘t deal with the next phases of Brighton‘s attack. There is a plan for every phase.

After the goal we stopped pressing effectively, that‘s not on Ten Hag.

They scored from a cross that should have been blocked. The crosser wasn‘t tightly marked, the cross not cut out and no one picked up Wellbeck. Their first chance that was created by at least two consecutive mistakes.

I‘ve seen the analyses of the game, but Wellbeck picking up the ball far into our half is not a fecking problem, that is exactly what we want. The mistakes are in the next phases.

I think the team lost confidence in the plan and stopped following the rules.

Of course some of the blame rests with Ten Hag, but we all could see the players who stopped pressing and the individual mistakes.
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I only agree that the players stopped pressing to an extent, and that is because the press was so easily bypassed. It's hard to explain in writing, but we set up to press centrally and stop them playing through the middle - as they usually do. That's when they switched things up and exploited wide areas instead, as I think De Zerbi recognised we weren't overly committed to a full press. Essentially they had their GK centrally, their CBs wide of the box, full backs in a 'wing back' position and a double pivot. So 7 players playing out from the back. We had a front three and two midfielders (to an extent, they were also occupied by these high full backs). So 5 players.

Generally our 3 front players were splitting their CBs and midfielders, with our two advanced CMs picking up their full backs. This meant they always had one pass free from the keeper, and then our players got dragged all over the place as they moved the ball from side to side. And once the keeper had played the ball from a goal kick, he was the 7th man and this then meant they had 2 passing options available at all times. Our full backs were occupied by their wingers and we had 2 CBs picking up a CF. So they had free men all over the place really. We either needed to commit further to the press and be braver, or just not commit at all. But as soon as we went behind then we were done for. We could have employed a more aggressive press, like I said - but given how unorganised our press always looked then I think we'd have been cut to ribbons potentially. Who knows, it was perhaps the only option but we ended up here nor there in terms of our approach.

In my opinion the players were less enthusiastic about the press when we were 2 goals down and having realised that the plan clearly wasn't going to work.
 
NLunited said:
What I saw was we didn‘t deal with the next phases of Brighton‘s attack. There is a plan for every phase.

After the goal we stopped pressing effectively, that‘s not on Ten Hag.

They scored from a cross that should have been blocked. The crosser wasn‘t tightly marked, the cross not cut out and no one picked up Wellbeck. Their first chance that was created by at least two consecutive mistakes.

I‘ve seen the analyses of the game, but Wellbeck picking up the ball far into our half is not a fecking problem, that is exactly what we want. The mistakes are in the next phases.

I think the team lost confidence in the plan and stopped following the rules.

Of course some of the blame rests with Ten Hag, but we all could see the players who stopped pressing and the individual mistakes.
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If the team stops pressing after 25 minutes that's on the manager to change it and get on players that will press.
 
mancan92 said:
If the team stops pressing after 25 minutes that's on the manager to change it and get on players that will press.
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Definitely, problem is none of them want to be there or are trying to force a move away like what Solskjaer said. I'm sure the manager would play players who want to follow his instructions, no matter how shit they are compared to the others.
 
VP89 said:
This video is fearmongering, I think this analysis is better:



^ It's a long video but the crux of it is, the formation had a lot of value in attack and we looked very threatening. But we should tweak to a better defensive system when off the ball. This is interesting because its easy to trash the diamond formation just because we lost, but there is value in pursuing it.
Click to expand...

Watched both of these videos and the first one really just says the set up is fine but the players aren’t applying any intensity or being focused on what they could do, from where they are already positioned, to help win the ball back. It doesn’t criticise the system or formation.

Second video spends a bit of time talking about good things / potential of the diamond shape and then pretty much says the same as the first video - the problems come from lack of aggression and intensity out of possession.

Long and short - our problems are mainly to do with application. I think we all know this in our hearts because we can see our players standing off, walking when they should be sprinting and daydreaming when a simple step in one direction would cut off a pass. It’s bizarre.

My take is that the players need more drilling and more competition for their places. Both of these things will happen in time - we’ll get more practice and our injured guys will return. So I’m annoyed thus far but not overly anxious for the season ahead. It’s not nice giving the other teams a 7, 8, 9 point head start but we can still push for top 2 / top 3.
 
crossy1686 said:
Definitely, problem is none of them want to be there or are trying to force a move away like what Solskjaer said. I'm sure the manager would play players who want to follow his instructions, no matter how shit they are compared to the others.
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It might be a bit early to conclude they don’t want to be here, no?

Did Solskjaer say that about these players or his own squad (some overlap of course)?
 
The Firestarter said:
As deluded as his pal Ed.
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He's worse. Ed at least knew when we were in a bad state. Made him self scarce so as not to make fans angrier. This regime is constantly coming out to assert we are close or grandstand at the worst possible times. The cluelessness is why our transfer strategy over the last 2 summers has felt like the blind leading the lame
 
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VP89 said:
We aren't though
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The gap in quality between ours and City's squad has never been bigger. For one we've never had such a glaring lack of goalscorers. In defence while their buying Gvardiol we're bringing back Jonny Evens.
 
Leftback99 said:
The gap in quality between ours and City's squad has never been bigger. For one we've never had such a glaring lack of goalscorers. In defence while their buying Gvardiol we're bringing back Jonny Evens.
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Agreed. Saying otherwise is delusional nonsense.

We have so many issues with the squad right now and that's ignoring our results which have been pretty garbage since our cup win. As seen below. City lost 5 games last season with 5 draws, they've currently won all 5 this season.

10 - Won
2 - Draw
7 - Lost

23 Goals Scored
25 Goals Conceded

LostLiverpool70United
DrewUnited00Southampton
LostNewcastle20United
WonUnited10Brentford
WonUnited20Everton
WonForest02United
DrewTottenham22United
WonUnited10Villa
LostBrighton10United
LostWest Ham10United
WonUnited20Wolves
WonBournemouth01United
WonUnited41Chelsea
WonUnited21Fulham
WonUnited10Wolves
LostTottenham20United
WonUnited32Forest
LostArsenal31United
LostUnited13Brighton
 
OrcaFat said:
Watched both of these videos and the first one really just says the set up is fine but the players aren’t applying any intensity or being focused on what they could do, from where they are already positioned, to help win the ball back. It doesn’t criticise the system or formation.

Second video spends a bit of time talking about good things / potential of the diamond shape and then pretty much says the same as the first video - the problems come from lack of aggression and intensity out of possession.

Long and short - our problems are mainly to do with application. I think we all know this in our hearts because we can see our players standing off, walking when they should be sprinting and daydreaming when a simple step in one direction would cut off a pass. It’s bizarre.

My take is that the players need more drilling and more competition for their places. Both of these things will happen in time - we’ll get more practice and our injured guys will return. So I’m annoyed thus far but not overly anxious for the season ahead. It’s not nice giving the other teams a 7, 8, 9 point head start but we can still push for top 2 / top 3.
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Yep, well put
 
Matt851 said:
Sure ten hag isn't isn't only problem at the club, or even the biggest one but saying he isn't culpable for our failings on the pitch is weak.

He hasn't ever managed to get us playing a clear style of football at any point and his away record against good teams couldn't be any worse. Spurs looked a complete basket case last year, and now look transformed under ange
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Barca away. Chelsea away but only for 45minutes. Tottenham away until 60 minutes . Not many but United did play with clear style. Why this team loves switching off is another question.

At home games, there are plenty. Vs liverpool, Tottenham for example. We battered them and shouldve scored more. Also played well for 60minutes against City.
Again finishing and attacking final third are another issues.

Saying we didnt play with style is dishonest. But i know youre going to disagree anyway and say it's "Ole ball mk2" which is even more dishonest since Ole had never setup up United to collectively pressing
 


I feel him, he might haven't figured us all out yet as good as we want to - but he is having really bad terms to deal with.
 
JuriM said:


I feel him, he might haven't figured us all out yet as good as we want to - but he is having really bad terms to deal with.
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10 players on the injury list currently if I’m not mistaken. The fact posters on this thread choose to ignore that is complete insanity.
 
It’s crazy we let him spend all that money on ex players without questioning him. It feels like we’re in an endless rebuilding cycle.
 
We’ve conceded the same goal 5 times now in the last 3 games. I thought above all else, this bloke was a great coach?
 
crossy1686 said:
Shocking news today as CEO of a publicly traded company says something positive about the direction of said company while he's in charge. Up next we answer the age old question of 'is oxygen bad for you?'.
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Yeah I'm no fan of Arnold but this is just basic corporate speak. What's he going to say, "we're just hoping to hover around 3rd/4th place until the end of time"?
 
Bless him, gave us 20 minutes of good performance before collapsing as usual. Get in Ten Hag!
 
Uniteds every game is copy-paste. We start good, making good chances, press the opponent and then miss 1 or 2 major chance. After that opponents score their goal in first major chance or score something stupid like tonight or some screamer. After that everything falls apart, they look like a clowns and you can expect trashing, so tonight it could go easily like 4:0.
 
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