More importantly we still have multiple on-field issues, and that's entirely down to Ten Hag
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
- Thread starter sewey89
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Agreed, but look at the hand he's been dealt. He spent 400 million, but lost the likes of Pogba, Matic, Mata, Cavani, Ronaldo, Greenwood, Sancho, De Gea with no plan or instruction on replacing them.
He was also let down with selling players like Maguire, McTomminay and missing out on Min-Jae. No wonder he doesn't trust the board. Nobody on this forum does either!
It's the only thing you can't critize him for.
ETH wanted to sell Sancho, Maguire, Mctomminay, VDB and refreshed the team as much as possible. Murtough had to step in to stop him.
Now the dust has settled on yesterday and the emotion has subsided a bit, i'm firmly in the "back him" camp. The challenges he has faced are well documented and whilst it doest absolve him of the performances this season, its certainly not helped matters.
I just feel as though we need some continuity with a manager, and even if it means a mid table/bottom half finish, i think we need to give him the season. I just dont feel as though we can sack yet another manager, back them with 100's of millions and then watch while it crumbles and we're back here in 18 months with another set of disjointed players and no system for a new manager to work with.
Add to that, we've signed a brand new striker, 2 midfielders and a GK in the summer, and to remove the manager who's plan they bought into, would surely cause a problem. There's no doubt there's some hard work needed and seeing some of the players ambling round yesterday, the clip of Rashford barely running to try and win the ball and the overall result, is completely unacceptable and needs addressing immediately.
There's also some more difficult decisions needed, and its one (of few) areas i've liked about EtH since joining, he's not accepted poor behaviour but there's still some more too root out and resolve it appears.
I just feel as though we need some continuity with a manager, and even if it means a mid table/bottom half finish, i think we need to give him the season. I just dont feel as though we can sack yet another manager, back them with 100's of millions and then watch while it crumbles and we're back here in 18 months with another set of disjointed players and no system for a new manager to work with.
Add to that, we've signed a brand new striker, 2 midfielders and a GK in the summer, and to remove the manager who's plan they bought into, would surely cause a problem. There's no doubt there's some hard work needed and seeing some of the players ambling round yesterday, the clip of Rashford barely running to try and win the ball and the overall result, is completely unacceptable and needs addressing immediately.
There's also some more difficult decisions needed, and its one (of few) areas i've liked about EtH since joining, he's not accepted poor behaviour but there's still some more too root out and resolve it appears.
They did pass to each other last season. They're playing badly now. Let's have it right.
Man I just posted the same thing in another thread. ETH is still the man for me, but the bolded bit I just cannot wrap my mind around. How is it that other clubs have an identifiable way they want to play after a few weeks but none of our managers can do that after a whole season? And it has happened with loads of different players as well.
In England, statistically, relative to clubs expectation and spending power, De Zerbi absolutely has a better record than ETH.
Played 5, lost 3.
I think most of us believe that the combination of injuries and the integration of new players along with significant changes to the playing system amount to extenuating circumstances. But when does the situation become untenable? 5, 6, 7 defeats in, say, 10, 12 games? Bottom half come December?
I’m not talking about the fans. Sounds like some have already decided he’s not up to it. I’m talking about the board. When will they lose faith?
I think most of us believe that the combination of injuries and the integration of new players along with significant changes to the playing system amount to extenuating circumstances. But when does the situation become untenable? 5, 6, 7 defeats in, say, 10, 12 games? Bottom half come December?
I’m not talking about the fans. Sounds like some have already decided he’s not up to it. I’m talking about the board. When will they lose faith?
I'm still very confused about what we're trying to do tactically.
It seems that we're always short of bodies in the box at both ends of the pitch. Yesterday when we attacked, it was usually a fast breakaway led by Rashford + one other.
When we defended, it was the usual desperate backpedalling and opposition players running into huge spaces that we've seen on and off under Solskjaer and ETH.
Compare that to Brighton and they had no issues getting enough bodies forward but also seemed to have numbers back to defend. When Rashford has that shot blocked in the first half, there were 8 Brighton players in the penalty area.
I genuinely want somebody to explain to me what we are attempting and what the thinking is behind it - because its just looks like an overcomplicated mess at the moment. Is that because whatever 'it' is is fundamentally not going to work, or is it because we're currently executing 'it's badly?
It seems that we're always short of bodies in the box at both ends of the pitch. Yesterday when we attacked, it was usually a fast breakaway led by Rashford + one other.
When we defended, it was the usual desperate backpedalling and opposition players running into huge spaces that we've seen on and off under Solskjaer and ETH.
Compare that to Brighton and they had no issues getting enough bodies forward but also seemed to have numbers back to defend. When Rashford has that shot blocked in the first half, there were 8 Brighton players in the penalty area.
I genuinely want somebody to explain to me what we are attempting and what the thinking is behind it - because its just looks like an overcomplicated mess at the moment. Is that because whatever 'it' is is fundamentally not going to work, or is it because we're currently executing 'it's badly?
We got beaten by Brighton because the club has become a circus. The focus is all over the place and its inevitable it filters to the players when their mates are forced out/taking time off/dropped to the reserves/refusing to leave/whatever else. A lot of it is down to weak leadership at the top and it started with Greenwood.
EtH can't address glaring ongoing tactical problems in real-time. That's no good sign. Every manager makes tactical errors, but every top manager has a way of (trying to) rectifying problems during the match.
When top 4 is mostly out of reach?
We could've stuck with Ole if this is the only reasoning. Plus we are watching ETH's own millions crumble away in his second season - Antony and Casemiro, one not his fault the other, very much on him.
And how exactly does one address Rashford ambling around? Scold him? Drop him? The first would be ineffective, the second would probably render our brand new striker ineffective.
I'm not saying that ETH should be sacked. I'm just sick of Glazer this, Glazer that for everything. Yes they need to go for all the reasons we know. But we can't excuse these performances by pinning all the blame on them.
They allowed ETH to spend 60 mil on Casemiro for what seems to be one season! ETH wanted a goalkeeper who can play long passes out to the wing, he got him, even though that wasn't the most important update to make. ETH wanted Mount, he got him for 50 odd mil. A brand new striker for 60 mil. At some point he should also contribute through coaching and in-game tactical changes.
Calm down guys 
We're ok. A nice fifth place finish would do fine while we transition. Just don't get rid of EtH.
We're ok. A nice fifth place finish would do fine while we transition. Just don't get rid of EtH.The absolute worst we could do is press the reset button again with the manager. We all know that is not the answer.
On the fence right now. Last season was an improvement from the season before, but it wasn`t anything to write poems about either. We had very few games were it felt like we were head and shoulders the stronger team. Lots of narrow wins and a handful of spankings that was close to sackworthy on their own.
Now he`s had another summer with new players coming in, full pre season of preparation, and we look worse. Our defence is wide open and i could see a top team spank us again.
Now he`s had another summer with new players coming in, full pre season of preparation, and we look worse. Our defence is wide open and i could see a top team spank us again.
I can see what ETH is trying to tactically foster (e.g. progressive football with quick transitions and counter pressing) but the problem is we don't seem to have a Plan B in our locker the moment the opposition tweaks their approach to the game. We freeze, get dragged out of position, and hope for the best. We still look very nervy passing out from the back despite having Onana.
Also the fact that Eriksen and Casemiro are our key players is concerning because they certainly do not represent the club's future and are themselves on the decline, excepting the odd moment of brilliance.
Also the fact that Eriksen and Casemiro are our key players is concerning because they certainly do not represent the club's future and are themselves on the decline, excepting the odd moment of brilliance.
It's difficult to judge him, considering how much problems we have all around.
That said, there's actually very little evidence he's a good coach. He's a good man manager and deals with people well, but I don't see his imprint on how we move the ball. Everything is just so random.
That said, there's actually very little evidence he's a good coach. He's a good man manager and deals with people well, but I don't see his imprint on how we move the ball. Everything is just so random.
The medical staff are blaming ETH for the pre-season and day-to-day training routine, Our new head of medical starts tomorrow so that will be interesting. He is just very short and to the point now (almost comes across as rude) in conversation with most people, You hardly ever see him downstairs (first team area) or in the gym with the players anymore, he now delegates that to his staff
Keep, last season we finished third and won a trophy and got to a second final but theres been no improvement? I do see improvement but Its been a shocking start to the season on and off the pitch. so many injuries, so many issues. I believe ETH will sort it out.
Some cant wait to bring in the next manager and start the next sack or keep thread. Pathetic.
Some cant wait to bring in the next manager and start the next sack or keep thread. Pathetic.
I agree. I’m just starting to get nervous for him. I think we could have a strong second half of the season if Erik is still here but if the results don’t turn round soon the board will start looking at plans to replace him in the event that they need to.Calm down guys
What scares me is the idea of the board coming up with a backup plan and deciding they like it. Then we’re a couple of defeats from them pulling the trigger.
I dont disgaree with what your saying on the first point, we could have just stuck with Ole but for me the circumstances feel different, we've tried everything and it hasnt worked, the only thing we havent tried is to stick with a manager for the longer term. I dont believe sacking the manager and replacing him with yield the results we want. I think its a 3 year plan to get us challenging, and we're into year 2 of that plan.
In regards Rashford, i'd drop him after yesterday, i cant see any other solution to it, i'd be fuming with the lack of effort if i was playing and/or was EtH. Agree it removes a huge attacking threat but if he isnt willing to contribute outside of that then it causes a bigger problem, and hence my point that i'd be willing to accept a lower league position if it comes to it. We know he can do it, he worked up and down against Arsenal but yesterday he looked like he couldnt be bothered so he's either not fit enough or wasnt interested, either way that cant be tolerated. That's not just Rashford, the same goes for the rest of them, if they cant meet the physical demands then they shouldnt be playing or their playing time reduced.
Not sure about para 3/4, i didnt mention Glazers once, you've said you're sick of people blaming them and then you've gone on to blame them in your last paragraph!
One of the issues I have is that I feel even with him having Antony, Mount, Varane and Shaw available, we will improve but not collectively as a team but as they are better individuals or more suited to their roles. So I think that ultimately lies on ETH. We don't look like a team that is missing particular pieces, we just look a bit broken.
I was fine with last season but I think the quality of our football was overstated then. I was so impressed with us against Spurs at home and thought our tie against Barca was really promising but aside from those games, generally not impressive even if our results were good.
I was fine with last season but I think the quality of our football was overstated then. I was so impressed with us against Spurs at home and thought our tie against Barca was really promising but aside from those games, generally not impressive even if our results were good.
This is wrong. They lost the first 3 vs Brentford, Chelsea and City. They then went on an 8 unbeaten streak in the PL.
Sacking him now would be silly and pointless.
The problem is so much deeper than this, and until we have new owners, then honestly, nothing is going to change.
Now, if the new owners come in and decide he's not the man for the job, then I'm also happy for him to be sacked. It pains me to say that, because when we signed him, I really thought we'd finally grabbed a progressive manager, but so far, it's been very hit and miss.
The signings have been below par as a whole
The decisions, playing Bruno right wing, Rashford up front etc. Yes we've injury problems this year, but even to us, it's just clear these ideas don't and haven't worked.
But again, this isn't Ten Hag to blame. Bring in De Zerbi, Pep, Klopp, under this structure, do you really think things will change.
The club is rotten in every tier, and not one person has a fighting chance
The problem is so much deeper than this, and until we have new owners, then honestly, nothing is going to change.
Now, if the new owners come in and decide he's not the man for the job, then I'm also happy for him to be sacked. It pains me to say that, because when we signed him, I really thought we'd finally grabbed a progressive manager, but so far, it's been very hit and miss.
The signings have been below par as a whole
The decisions, playing Bruno right wing, Rashford up front etc. Yes we've injury problems this year, but even to us, it's just clear these ideas don't and haven't worked.
But again, this isn't Ten Hag to blame. Bring in De Zerbi, Pep, Klopp, under this structure, do you really think things will change.
The club is rotten in every tier, and not one person has a fighting chance
I totally don't agree with what Sancho did. But if he being ostracized for not meeting the standards, then what standards are there to be met in the first place with a whole bunch of bottlers who lack mentality?
Players looked confused in how to keep a shape and track players. Brighton players had a lot of room and time to pick us off in quite a slow manner, they soak up any pressure and then strolled forward while our players are still asleep. Our corners are the same, not much effort to track and close the opposition. Some of it will be a lack of unity in the team in not helping each other as well which leaves large spaces for Brighton to move into.
People want to see progress and we see regression. The recruitment has done a horrible job the glazers as well. But on the field with what he has we should be able to see progress on how we use the ball. This season he has changed the system to a point where we treat the ball worse than during Ole's reign. A lot of us just want to see the team have a system, play good football. Is that a hard ask, when teams are waltzing through us where is the hope?
This forum has gone to shite. It seems internet fans can’t stomach any kind of adversity, and don’t seem to have any perspective.
The reason United struggle is because the competition has improved, and the owners aren’t interested in winning the league. Corporate culture comes from the top.
You’re getting annoyed at the wrong people, and would enjoy supporting your team far more if you accepted the above.
The reason United struggle is because the competition has improved, and the owners aren’t interested in winning the league. Corporate culture comes from the top.
You’re getting annoyed at the wrong people, and would enjoy supporting your team far more if you accepted the above.
The club on the whole is responsible for this mess - late transfers, poor sales of players hamstringing us etc. We are facing unprecedented off field antics.
It's madness this is being discussed. Unless we have a DoF that we can trust to implement a structure going forward and has identified a superior next coach that can synthesize our players' strengths, we will be undoing what had been solid progress from last season.
Actually this fanbase deserves more chaos - sack EtH immediately and be done with it then. Wait for the next 5 game winless run and sack the next manager too.
While we are at it, look for more players to cancel too
It's madness this is being discussed. Unless we have a DoF that we can trust to implement a structure going forward and has identified a superior next coach that can synthesize our players' strengths, we will be undoing what had been solid progress from last season.
Actually this fanbase deserves more chaos - sack EtH immediately and be done with it then. Wait for the next 5 game winless run and sack the next manager too.
While we are at it, look for more players to cancel too
Meanwhile Brighton are giving us a beat down and they are missing a few key players.
He’s getting more slack because of the off the field mess. He bought very badly in the summer and has tried to implement tactics that simple don’t suit the players.
Defensively we have a high line, inverted full backs and some attempt at high pressing. None of this is working. The players don’t press as a unit. The full backs aren’t good enough to play those tactics and similarly our CBs are not quick enough to play a high line. Then he decides to try a new diamond formation against Brighton of all teams.
Personally I think it’s a matter of time before he’s sacked. Following the same pattern as Solskjaer at present. The momentum from last season has already gone, we have injury problems, we have no RW, we don’t have a decent CF, our solid DM hasn’t been in form for months. Our back line has Lindelof, Maguire and Dalot regularly playing again. It’s a mess.
Defensively we have a high line, inverted full backs and some attempt at high pressing. None of this is working. The players don’t press as a unit. The full backs aren’t good enough to play those tactics and similarly our CBs are not quick enough to play a high line. Then he decides to try a new diamond formation against Brighton of all teams.
Personally I think it’s a matter of time before he’s sacked. Following the same pattern as Solskjaer at present. The momentum from last season has already gone, we have injury problems, we have no RW, we don’t have a decent CF, our solid DM hasn’t been in form for months. Our back line has Lindelof, Maguire and Dalot regularly playing again. It’s a mess.
This is why he just isn't it. A good tactician changes the setup to counter the changes that the other team makes. A great tactician anticipates the changes the opponent will make and already has a plan to exploit them.
He seems more and more out of his depth at this level. He has one trick and it's been figured out.
Ajax sold us another dud.
I thought this Poundland Van Gaal was supposed to be coming in and developing young players? So far he’s done none of that and uses less youth than even Pep.
The recruitment has been all kinds of wrong and it’s going to cost him his job before Christmas
Just saw the post match conference and once again he said “We didn’t follow the plan”. He has said the exact same thing so many times now. Are the players not listening to him or they don’t understand the plan or is he unable to convey the message? Why the feck he keeps on repeating the same thing? He said that multiple times in the pre season too.
Yesterday he would rather play the diamond than start Pellistiri and he is still playing McTominay despite knowing nothing good comes from him. That cowardice will cost him and us. He is gone, its just a matter of time.
No silly reactions here. He came in to an absolute shambles. Got us into champs league took us far in europa but was let down by a few players one of which is gone and the other he tried to sell. Won the league cup and lost the fa cup to the treble winners.
Look how terrible Liverpool were last year and they stuck by him. Eric needs time and support. He needs less idiotic players behaving badly, more effort and less injuries.
Look how terrible Liverpool were last year and they stuck by him. Eric needs time and support. He needs less idiotic players behaving badly, more effort and less injuries.
Just an excuse for his own mistakes.
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