Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

Status
Not open for further replies.
Alright having had the past 8 hours to stew over that shit show... while I do still firmly think he dropped the ball tactically today, I'll cut him slack with all the off pitch issues. It's an impossible situation unfortunately. And unfortunately, it might end up being his undoing. We'll see. Maybe we just stick with it through what will likely be a failure of a season given the constant shit show going on off the pitch, inevitably impacting on the pitch. Really need to see us commit to a chelsea style of u24 year old targets though for that. Love Casemiro, but a signing like him is a 1-3 year sort of guy. And our current issues lead me to think that cleaning out the rot will take longer now. Really it's actually not for sure known how long it'll take. The Glazers will surely eventually leave, right? Maybe then the cloud can be lifted and we can start having positive vibes again. That alone has a big impact, as it did for Newcastle.
r

I think if you had Erik Ten Hag in a room and could ask him one question "do you regret answering the question about Sancho's absence in a direct manner the way you did?"

I think that would be a valid criticism given what was shortly to occur with the Antony situation. It has left him desperate on the wings and the right in particular. He obviously does not fancy Pellestri, otherwise he would have played against Brighton.

Also, before people start saying he wants to sell Sancho, he also wants to sell Maguire and McTominay and they are going to be playing games.

It could be a pertinent point that he is the manager, but he did not manage that situation well?
 
I'm tired of all these excuses. We know the problems with the Glazers but good managers mask problems behind the scenes. The Glazers are not telling Ten Hag to play the way the team is playing. The Glazers are not telling Ten Hag to not give youth a chance. The Glazers did not tell Ten Hag to make some of the questionable decisions he has made on signings.

When Ten Hag was appointed, vast majority of this forum cheered and applauded and refused to accept any form of dissent on the appointment. Now the excuses come out. At some point, Manager must take responsibility and that point is NOW. He has spent around £400m in two transfer windows with barely any proceeds from outgoings. Do you realize how insane that is? A good manager gets this team playing miles better with far less money than that. How many examples do you need? A manager came to Old Trafford yesterday and played us off the park with Danny Welbeck, Pascal Gross, Lallana, Dahoud, Gilmour, Joao Pedro and Adingra. Names that would be laughed off the site if they were suggested on here. The excuses of oh Brighton have a great structure do not fly. The "club structure" is not who sets out the players on the pitch and instructs them to play in a particular way.

If Ten Hag is the great manager many on here claim, he gets this team playing great coherent football immediately. I'm not holding my breath on that.
 
Wait till January if situation doesn't improve then revisit it , but don't just base decision on results but more on performances , development and growth of the team .

Ten Hag has shown last season He can still get reasonable results while team is still struggling for performances so For me position on table could be deceiving for All we know We could be comfortably in top 4 in January while playing poorly but could be playing well but might be struggling in top 4 race . So decision has to be more than just result based whatever that may be .
 
Come on. Should've been 2-0 up half time against spurs. Unlucky to lose v arsenal. Deserved to beat Forest. Yeah things aren't great but can we avoid pointless exaggeration.

Sorry don't think that's an exaggeration at all
It was a massive cause for concern when he dismissed the help from Rangnick. Even though RR has been proven to be right on most of the things he said, and the list of players he provided to the club - which we didn't follow up on - have since worked out elsewhere.

Yeah I was absolutely fuming at him for doing that because was the wrong decision. We have finally exhausted all management options in this past decade,honestly don't know who available has that aura to manage us anymore. Feel free to put forward any suggestions.
 
Looks at his signings, I am pretty sure we are fecked:

Onana - good with his feet but everytime the ball is in the 6 yards. It is almost guaranteed goal

Martinez - seems to have regress. Not physically imposing, not fast, his passing has been safe. I have not seen a ball ping from left to right to launch an attack.

Casemiro - seems old and slow, constantly overrun by opponent midfield

Eriksen - same as Casemiro

Malacia - average LB, just a squad backup

Antony - biggest waste of money I have seen. Doesn't take on defenders, isn't fast enough, doesn't create for others. Always trying to score instead of passing

Hoijund - too young to lead the front line. Sign while injure

Amrabat - even though he hasn't kicked a ball, he is likely average player.

Mount - haven't seen what he brings. When he can't score in pre-season, you know something is wrong

It seems that the whole squad went to US for a holiday. Everyone is having a fun time, not much effort put into playing. 5 games into the season, players seems unfit, unmotivated, zero teamwork, personnel issues with Sancho, Antony, Maguire and Greenwood. We are just mid Sep and finishing top 4 is already over. Who can we blame? I think Erik needs to take some of the responsibility, there is no hiding.
 
Looks at his signings, I am pretty sure we are fecked:

Onana - good with his feet but everytime the ball is in the 6 yards. It is almost guaranteed goal

Martinez - seems to have regress. Not physically imposing, not fast, his passing has been safe. I have not seen a ball ping from left to right to launch an attack.

Casemiro - seems old and slow, constantly overrun by opponent midfield

Eriksen - same as Casemiro

Malacia - average LB, just a squad backup

Antony - biggest waste of money I have seen. Doesn't take on defenders, isn't fast enough, doesn't create for others. Always trying to score instead of passing

Hoijund - too young to lead the front line. Sign while injure

Amrabat - even though he hasn't kicked a ball, he is likely average player.

Mount - haven't seen what he brings. When he can't score in pre-season, you know something is wrong

It seems that the whole squad went to US for a holiday. Everyone is having a fun time, not much effort put into playing. 5 games into the season, players seems unfit, unmotivated, zero teamwork, personnel issues with Sancho, Antony, Maguire and Greenwood. We are just mid Sep and finishing top 4 is already over. Who can we blame? I think Erik needs to take some of the responsibility, there is no hiding.
What's this view on Amrabat ?
 
Every manager we have had for years - every team has looked better coached than us. I've forgotten the amount of times the entire fanbase has complained about what it is we actually do in training no matter who the manager was. This was the whole crux of Solksjaers reign and why everyone wanted Carrick's and McKenna's heads. Why is it other managers/coaches come into other clubs and transform them in weeks when ours can't seem to do that in months/years. Maybe a lot of our players are just egotistical unintelligent people?

Pogba, Matic, Mata, Lingard, Bailly, Telles, Fred, Ronaldo have all been let go during Eth reign. This has happened under all managers ,we get rid of players and I still hear about these egos that are undermining coaches. It's like whack a mole at this point. I believe in this case they are implementing the managers tactics and coaching but other managers are poking holes in our strategy. Every game we press high, win the ball, waste the chances we make and opposing teams use the space we left behind to punish us.
 
Pressing high is not directly related to the height of the defensive line. You’ll want to look how how many times we recover the ball in the final third.

I'm not sure where to find that exactly, the closest I could get is attacking third tackles, as well as overall tackle and interception stats. They all point towards a middle of the road picture in that regard from the 9th to 15th range in the last few seasons from what I can see. Is there any other good stats sites to compare?

It's a bit of a tricky stat overall because City for example also don't do particularly well in that stat, but it's obviously because they dominate possession (City are by far the lowest tacklers in the league, so in a way it's telling that they were 10th in attacking third tackles despite that). Arsenal, Liverpool and Brighton were all in the top 5 last season still so not really any excuse for us.

https://fbref.com/en/comps/9/defense/Premier-League-Stats
 
Last edited:


This is embarrassing to watch. None of player pressed their target or gave up & casually watched oppo making passes
And Redditors told me, De Zerbi can fix these sub 95 IQs? I don't think so.
 
When you want to sign Kim Min-Jae but end up with Evans, I'm finding really difficult to think that EtH is the problem. Yes - he's no Fergie regen or anything but still - the common factor in our downward spiral has been the board, and the owners. EtH at least managed to win us a cup and took us back to the CL. Yes, some of the tactics and subs have been questionable but I can live with that. I don't see how Nagelsmann would do better in that environment anyway - a good result here and there but in the end, it would result in the same situation.
 


This is embarrassing to watch. None of player pressed their target or gave up & casually watched oppo making passes
And Redditors told me, De Zerbi can fix these sub 95 IQs? I don't think so.


It's clear that whatever he wants them to do, it isn't working. Whether that be through arrogance or ineptitude on the part of the players, unclear instructions from the coach, inadequate preparations from the training ground, or just a mental block who's to say. I think low morale and mental weakness is likely the biggest culprit because the way this team collapses and concedes easy goals is something to behold. Either way Ten Hag needs to find a way to get on top of it.
 
This is embarrassing to watch. None of player pressed their target or gave up & casually watched oppo making passes
And Redditors told me, De Zerbi can fix these sub 95 IQs? I don't think so.

to be as close to the ball as Rashford was at 0:06 and not even run honestly turns my stomach
 
He needs to start to digging other players out or get Sancho (who I'm sympathising with more and more) back in the team asap or things are not going to end well for ten Hag.

Quite depressing really. Really thought he was the one.
He didn't dig Sancho out. The extent of his comment was essentially that Sancho trained badly for 1 week. 1 week. That's causing all this drama? No. What caused this drama is Sancho putting up his social media post after 1 small comment that doesn't even question his professionality in any tangible way apart from having a bad week. The reason why you're perceiving this as digging him out is because Sancho made this a far bigger deal than it needed to be.

The problem with Ten Hag is that he's been far too pragmatic or he just doesn't have the coaching ability to enact the ideas that United fans want from their side. If a player doesn't provide enough movement to give his teammates passing options, then he should be stricter and not play the player. If he doesn't have that in the squad, he needs to bring that kind of player in. A player like Onana and Martinez are good examples of players that fit the style United fans want to see on the pitch. Then you keep playing players like McTominay instead of players that are younger, but are more of the right profile so one has to wonder what his beliefs are.

If he had an original plan when he initially came in and decided to change it based on the players he has in the squad, then that's his fault too. Fans can forgive results if the side plays in a way that has them believe that with a few changes (transfers), it would be worth persisting with the manager. When you are pragmatic, you don't get that same leeway for good reason.
 
You find a system and a selection of players that work. Rashford provides enough on the ball to be worth his spot, and him having a shit work rate alone isn't the cause of this. Have your squad. Punt out the ones you don't want. There's only so many excuses that can be made. He did well last year. But he has a CF now and a GK now which were 2 gaping holes. There is no excuse to go backwards. There aren't excuses to be completely out coached. Today had 0 to do with individuals. Today was all about the system. There were massive spaces for McTominay and Eriksen to cover all day, and they struggled with it all day. How Ten Hag saw that game and didn't see what was so painfully obvious to me is what is concerning to me. It was the most basic of adjustments from Brighton and they eases to a dominant victory.
Shhh.. its all glazers fault.
 
Going into the season I said this year there are no excuses. He’s gotten his team and his players, he’s been here for a season. There really is no one else to blame, so he better turn it around and show what he is made of.
 
People need to get a grip and get behind the team. Its been bad, no doubt but the guy has half the first team out and unbelievable amounts of off the field stuff to deal with.
Also, how unlucky are we? Theres so many key moments that havent gone our way, going back to Fernandes uncharacteristically bad header miss to put us 1 up at Spurs when we were the better team, Garnacho being a fag paper offside to go 2-1 up against Arsenal, the goal today was so close.

We need a lucky break, the team is really paying the price for a crazy pre season fixture list in terms of injuries and ETH and all of the footballing decision makers need to really think about the impact on the form because of that.

Woe is me the world is against us,nah it's simple IF we did my some miracle get new owners then not fussed if they sack him at all
 
If he wants to save his job, he needs to drop players who don't buy into his system, no matter who they are.
If that includes players like Rashford, he is screwed. Looks like he is caught between what he wants to do and caving into the united way.
 
... Why is it other managers/coaches come into other clubs and transform them in weeks when ours can't seem to do that in months/years. Maybe a lot of our players are just egotistical unintelligent people?

It can be done here, Van Gaal changed us within three months. We just didn’t like what he turned us into.

I’m not sure who is calling the shots on players and general direction the club is going. Is it EtH or is it Murtough? Is Murtough the one deciding we are going to be a transition team and dictating that to EtH? Is that what a DoF should be doing? How are the decisions on player purchases being made? And who is deciding what prices we will go to for players and which players we sign.

My worry is that it’s a mish-mash of the two of them on both fronts and that they have very different ideas over the plan and how to implement it.
 


This is embarrassing to watch. None of player pressed their target or gave up & casually watched oppo making passes
And Redditors told me, De Zerbi can fix these sub 95 IQs? I don't think so.

Lazy, overpaid and useless wankers.

Part of me sympathises with Ten Hag. But the fact is he has had three transfer windows and several hundred million available, not to mention he could've done more to sell players who don't follow his instructions. More significant changes should've been made to the team to rid it of those who are either lazy or thick as pig shit
 
I have a feeling that he's being thrown under the bus. The core players knew what he was trying to do ( clean houses ) and play to get him sacked.

Explains the we're going to be the best transitional club. I think the players decided they dont want Ten Haag football and wanted counter attack because it fits certain players stenght selfishly

Easy, Mr. Tin Foil Hat. For the first 20 minutes against Spurs and Brighton, the players loved "Ten Hag football" but the mid-match their memories returned and they remembered that their plan was to get him sacked?

Or maybe he's just a mediocre coach showing pretty much his best work at a big club (no, Ajax is not a big club in this context)? We had fun mocking Potter once he moved to a club with expectations and pressure. Maybe that's what's happening here.

Dude just got absolutely out-tacticked by the Brighton manager, to borrow Big Sam's phrase. It can't be all on the players. Once Brighton figured out our formation, they adjusted. How long did ETH take to respond to Brighton taking control?
 
Still think we have to give him a chance with something resembling a fit first XI. Every week he's having to make compromises in 3/4 positions and that's really difficult to overcome.

I think we can (and have) put together a really solid run, if he could just keep players fit. Eriksen can't work in his preferred, system, which is why he bought Amrabat and Mount. We have no right-side of the pitch. Lindelof is light-weight and not great in the air. Our striker had his first start for the club, and is 20.

I kind of feel for EtH. If the Arsenal match had swung our way, I don't think he'd be under nearly so much pressure, that's how fine the margins are.
 
I can tell you.

1) Attacking through the flanks - passing patterns aimed at opening up space for wide players to exploit.
2) Building up from the back using a back 3
3) A High, narrow press
4) Fluidity amongst the front 5, constant interchange of positions
5) Inverting wing backs
6) quick transitions after winning the ball high up the pitch
7) The striker stays central and rarely moves into channels

You can see the patterns borne from this. Our player positions are very fluid, with different positions filling into different roles at various points. The back 3 for example can have Casemiro drop in ( so AWB and Shaw/Dalot push up and central) or AWB/Shaw tuck in and Casemiro stay slightly higher to receive the first pass through the middle. Bruno and Eriksen/Mount are very fluid across the attacking 4 of the 4141, they frequently move into channels and tend to operate narrow. You can have instances were both Bruno and Eriksen are on one side of the pitch. Bruno in particular can temporarily swap roles with the right winger, creating spaces and channels to exploit.

In terms of the patterns of play, are they always perfect and effective? no. But they exist. Our press is high and narrow, but based on individuals can be broken with small errors. Our back 3 can provide passing lanes, but if players aren't getting into positions early enough or people in the back 3 are hesitant, it will take longer for the build up to occur. Fluidity in the front 5 and inverting wing backs can lead to gaps on the flanks being exploited if people don't get into position quickly enough. If a full back fails to invert effectively, it can either leave the holding midfielder isolated or provide less passing options for team mates. Turnover of possession can happen, but if poor decisions are made when they occur, you will not get the quality quick transitions required. If the striker you have is poor at holding up the ball, is slow to anticipate chances and is slow to get into the right central positions, you are not going to get a focal point that would allow more touches in the box, bring in team mates and be a constant presence in the box for the wide attacks to connect with ( since we are aiming to attack from the flanks).

Essentially, patterns of play clearly exist, but due to early operational issues, they are not as effective as one would hope for at the moment. The expectation is that given more time with players adapting and key players coming back from injuries, the patterns will become more effective; however they do exist
Thoughts on our style of play now? I still can’t see it, regardless of personnel.
 
He's basically created a team that can't score, can't defend and can't pass. Bravo sir!
 
Part of me sympathises with Ten Hag. But the fact is he has had three transfer windows and several hundred million available, not to mention he could've done more to sell players who don't follow his instructions. More significant changes should've been made to the team to rid it of those who are either lazy or thick as pig shit
You do realise Ten Hag is not in charge of selling players? We pretty much know for certain he wanted rid of Maguire, McTominay and VDB. And probably Sancho.
 
You do realise Ten Hag is not in charge of selling players? We pretty much know for certain he wanted rid of Maguire, McTominay and VDB. And probably Sancho.
He was talking rubbish about being happy to keep Maguire, and reports stated he wasn't arsed whether mctominay stayed or left.

He should be making it clear to these wasters, and to Murtough, that they have no place here.
 
He's basically created a team that can't score, can't defend and can't pass. Bravo sir!
We came 3rd last season. Won a trophy. We're only 5 games into this season with a terrible injury list and multiple off field issues. This fanbase, honestly.
 
Into the ground we are in it already,this is a decade of decay finally come to a sad demise. Needed to get Guardiola/Klopp but once it never happened we were fecked. I can't think of anyone good enough to manage us under these owners.
Since we sacked Mourinho we have spent what... 600m or more on players? Now consider that in early 2019 when Ole was caretaker we were briefing that we won't appoint a permanent manager until we bring in a DOF, it seemed Poch was a shoo-in but we pivoted to Ole who was saying right things but the team's form was tailing off.

Come 2021 the Ole experiment has ended disastrously and we finally get Rangnick in the building. We already have a placeholder in office, he says a few things that get noses out of joint, we drop him, give all power to Ten Hag and here we are 400m later looking like strangers in the pitch.

The reason I pointed out 2019 and 2021 winters is that those were the opportunities we had to right the wrongs of the Woodward years but we doubled down on something that doesn't work.

There is no Fergie out there, Pep is not Fergie and neither is Klopp but both are smart enough to embrace teams that sort recruitment for them. It doesn't mean they are not involved but they have full time experts doing the legwork to make sure they get it right. This is where we are lost and now we have another expensive but ridiculously imbalanced squad with paper thin depth. And we are broke.
 
He was talking rubbish about being happy to keep Maguire, and reports stated he wasn't arsed whether mctominay stayed or left.

He should be making it clear to these wasters, and to Murtough, that they have no place here.
He has to remain conciliatory to players in case they remain. Of course he has to claim he's happy that Maguire stayed, but we know for a fact he wanted a CB to replace him.

We haven't had a manager since Fergie that has been as clear about who he wants out. The club have failed him on this one, sorry.
 
Absolutely convinced dressing room is split on him,fully expecting this leads to more leaks from Utd sources when we suffer more defeats

That is what I have been wondering. The main problem is that when we conceed a goal, instead of fighting back, we just drop our heads and don't look like we have any fight or desire.
 
And when de Zerbi also fails, sack him as well and bring in Poch to repeat the failure. #chelsea
My reply being slightly facetious sort of went over your head, didn't it?

And here was me thinking the :lol: would have given it away :annoyed:

I would have gone for poch over EtH in the first place, but after last season EtH deserves the chance to turn this around... but I do worry that the momentum is gathering pace in the wrong direction.
 
If Antony was still available and given this summer's transfers, I'm assuming Hag's preferred starting 11 is this:

Onana

Dalot
Varane
Martinez
Reguilon

Casemiro
Mount
Bruno

Antony
Hojlund
Rashford

If Antony doesn't come back, Bruno swaps with him and Amrabat in midfield?

In either case, I wonder how many games this combination of players will actually start this season. I'm guessing not many.
 
We came 3rd last season. Won a trophy. We're only 5 games into this season with a terrible injury list and multiple off field issues. This fanbase, honestly.
I wasn't being entirely serious. I still back ETH but injury list or not you'd expect him to have the team being able to pass to each other by now.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.