Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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Football is a progress. We were ahead of schedule last season largely down to probably a weak Liverpool Chelsea and spurs. They have had to improve. They were in better position than us to improve and did so.

I do think he made a mistake letting Fred. I do think today it was a weird decision to drop awb considering mitoma was playing.

there is tons of shite going on behind the scenes that is obviously playing on his and the players minds. Give him a chance. We can’t keep sacking managers for the sake of it.

imagine this forum in late 80s and early 90s with sir Alex
 
el3mel said:
More like your expectations for the manager are non existent.
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I have expectations. And they are not currently met. But I also consider and understand the factors that he cannot control.

Don't wanna argue with you no more mate. Have a pint. Cheers.
 
I’d like to see his actual team get a run out before judging him really.. you know, with the players he actually wants to play?
it’s hard to judge when he’s still forced into playing mctominay in midfield.
The more concerning thing is there doesn’t seem to be any patterns of play, and it’s been over a year now, what the actual feck are the coaching team doing with them every week?
 
RonaldoVII said:
Amrabat is meant to replace McTominay. Wanted 2 strikers got only 1. Wanted Kim and got Evans. Wanted FDJ, wanted Antony early and overspent in the end and now can’t do much cos of FFP well who’s fault is that?
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He wanted a replacement for Fred and Scott and he got Mount and Amrabat, spending 60m on Mount along the way.

He wanted a striker to replace Martial and we paid 60m to bring him one. How are we supposed to bring him another one after this sum of money spent?

He didn't get FDJ but he got Casemiro for 80m as a replacement. What other club would pay that
sum of money for a +30 years old player?

He wanted Antony and he got him for a ridiculous sum of money. Another club would have told him to find a replacement but the club overpaid to please him.

Wanted a replacement for Maguire, got Martinez. Wanted a replacement for De Gea, got Onana.

The end result is that the players he wanted to replace in the squad, the board brought replacement for them for ridiculous sums of money. We are just playing the old players now because either his signings sucked hard or are injured.
 
el3mel said:
4-0 is a thrashing but it happens. How many times have you seen a team losing by 7 goals to their main rivals in your life?
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Ah, so now it has to be to the main rivals as well? Seems fair.

I don't really know how much else we can wring out of this conversation, it was an awful result and I wouldn't have blinked at his being sacked if we were sat in 8th place and out of the cups, but as it happened about a week after our first trophy in literal years whilst in a top four spot, describing it as an automatic sacking offence will always seem pretty dumb to me.
 
laughtersassassin said:
Results stay like this and he won't last long.

Only possible positive is there is about a 5% chance it starts to convince the Glazers that maybe selling is best.

Without making CL consistently the club value won't rise as much as they hope over the next few years. Especially if we can't even make CL with it being top 5 potentially.
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Can't see him going anywhere, unless of course we continue like this. A CL loss to Bayern and loss away to Burnley would turn things pretty toxic.
 
Curious if he's got a collection of favorites that he'll play no matter how it affects the tactics and others. I would certainly like to see some of the youth given a run as we already know the limited product some of the senior players will produce.
 
Amrabat had an injury at time of medical right, same with Hojlund. We shouldn’t be getting to game week 5 after an international break and still not have seen a summer signing. Hard to know how much of that is on the club moving at their own pace and how much is on the manager. Mount was a poor buy stylistically. Questionable judgement of character signing Antony having worked with him in the past. Onana has faced 10 shots on target and let in 7. Done for doping and had average stats in his season with Inter. Insistent on using players from his past which were good enough for what exactly, high praise? The Sancho beef is ridiculous too.
 
6 points worse off and -2 GD (was 0 at equivalent time last season)

I was very pro ETH but I'm starting to struggle with my patience for him, however I don't believe it's just him the whole club is an absolute shit show at almost every level so any manager will struggle to succeed in this

For the love of God get a PROPER DOF before anything changes.

Look at how properly run Brighton are. Look at their ability to find these diamond in the rough players. Apparently Mitoma cost £2 million. 2 fecking million while we waste money left right and centre

The only one of this summer's signings who looks decent so far is Hojlund. If he gets injured we are even more up shit creek because we are back to Tony who will then either already be injured or get injured almost instantly. Why didn't we buy a second striker? Goals are a major issue bar Rasmus which of our summer signings is going to contribute

The whole club is rotten from top to bottom at this point and it feels like there's no light at the end of the tunnel. We could end up with the same barren period Liverpool had, living on past glories at this rate. There is something very very wrong. The "sale or not sale" hanging over everything is not helping at all plus all the rotten players with disciplinary issues which is probably causing division as the other players are probably in camps for or against

The trouble is far greater than just ETH - also who is available to replace him with?
 
What a fanbase. How many times would you sack SAF? Ofcourse keep ffs.
 
Matt851 said:
The whole idea is that a dof can leverage the clubs global scouting network so you aren't reliant on players the manager knows. And they are also supposed to ensure signings represent good value and aren't so specific to the managers requirements that you need a whole new squad if the manager changes.

Clearly clubs with dof's have also made bad signings but none have made them as consistently
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Firstly, we have a DoF, and secondly, even if we didn’t - we have a different recruitment structure with the idea of doing the same things.

And other clubs with DoFs absolutely get signings wrong as often as us. In fact, typically, they simply have worse football teams than us. Our signings have had us consistently finishing above them.

I haven’t got a huge problem with a manager getting the players he wants. Otherwise we may as well do away with the manager role and let this all-knowing dof who apparently decides who our players are and what our tactics are just run the team. Managers signing their own players, in theory, is only a problem for the next manager. That isn’t an irrelevant problem of course, but it does nothing to absolve them of blame while still currently managing these players that they wanted. Our current failures are on Ten Hag, who has been given money to buy himself a team, and made contract decisions regarding others - yet that team isn’t good enough. If he was a better manager, with a team of his own choosing, he’d be doing better. If Mason Mount does not improve our midfield it is Ten Hag’s fault, not someone above him.

These managers need to stop hiding behind the Glazers and be accountable for their failures. All of this ‘any manager would fail here’ shit is just rubbish. Why should any manager be doomed to failure by being given a load of money and being allowed to build a team of their own? Ten Hag needs to go if he doesn’t improve this quickly. He’s had a shot and can have no complaints.
 
I fear he's losing the dressing room.
If it's not that then it's down to lacking fitness, which is very concerning but less so compared to the former.
 
I can't understand how Gary Neville push all the blame to Glazers. Yes, I think they suck as owners but this lost is clearly on ETH. This is Erik's team, how much has he spent. Onana, Martinez, Casemiro, Eriksen, Amrabat, Antony, Mount, Hoijund and Malaccia. 400 million spent on 9 players so is Glazers taking all the blame. I don't think so. I just think money has been poor spent by ETH. Casemiro and Eriksen are old and slow so you can't them together against top side (I can't imagine I am calling Brighton a top side). Buying injure players even before they kick a ball like Hoijund and Amrabat. Martinez and Antony has become mediocre. Upper management suck big time, they appointed a new manager and they let the manager buy whoever they want to. Surely there is a sound mind telling ETH why the player isn't suitable in EPL. Don't we have Sancho already in the squad, why would we need another Sancho in Antony? Forget this season, it will be written off with 3 defeats in 5 games. I cannot see how we can finish top 4 this season. I think we will not get more than 60 points this season which puts us at 8-10 position.
 
I was prepared to overlook a few of ten Hag's shortcomings last season but did so on the understanding we would dramatically improve this season after another summer of incomings. I was largely unimpressed by our transfer window and have been equally unimpressed by what I've seen on the pitch since the start of the season.

I'd keep for now but it's starting to feel more and more like diminishing returns. A lot of the good from last season is being undone by us failing to do the basics well. Ten Hag doesn't have enough credit in the bank to have blind faith in him after our shoddy away record last season and having already been blitzed by some of the top sides. I think he'll be given a stay of execution due to the lack of available replacements, in a similar vein to Ole at the end of his stint at United.
 
Lose to a team that, for years, has been run much better than United and that’s reason to sack the manager? Or is it a case of “teams like brighton”?
 
bosnian_red said:
That's not an excuse for today. There has been a ton of issues, yeah. He should be able to motivate the side, get a siege mentality, implement a functional system. Today was a system that gave Brighton the advantage. And he didn't adapt. It worked for 15 minutes, they adjusted and started picking holes all over the place, and if he couldn't see what was so painfully obvious for many of us to see, then that is HUGELY concerning.
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It’s time to ditch 4-3-3. We don’t got the players for it.
4-4-2
4-5-1

i don’t give a fck what anyone says. Until we decide to start playing like a team park the bus for all I care
 
Tried the Premier League proven manager, tried the legendary coach, tried the elite manager, tried a club legend, tried the football guru, tried the next exciting European coach.

Maybe to succeed in modern football you need a top level structure and owners who set the standard from top to bottom.

We can blame Ten Hag and hire De Zerbi and then have this conversation again in 2 years with a lot of you saying "well why didn't we learn from Potter at Chelsea!" whilst Ten Hag goes to another club and gets them drastically over performing.
 
How long are we going to continue blaming managers??

its The players it’s the stinking attitudes, like keano said when ole was in charge the players continue to throw managers under the bus. They are too over paid too over pampered, playing for United gets there celebrity profiles more exposure they don’t give a feck about the club manager or fans. The players don’t fear anyone. Rather than hiring his mates and mclaren etc maybe ten Haag should bring in jaap Stam or Keane to teach some respect.
 
Ubik said:
Ah, so now it has to be to the main rivals as well? Seems fair.

I don't really know how much else we can wring out of this conversation, it was an awful result and I wouldn't have blinked at his being sacked if we were sat in 8th place and out of the cups, but as it happened about a week after our first trophy in literal years whilst in a top four spot, describing it as an automatic sacking offence will always seem pretty dumb to me.
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Of course the opponent matters. No one talks that much about our 6-1 loss against Spurs few years ago for example, unlike the 5 and 7 we conceded against Liverpool which were shambolic.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
Tried the Premier League proven manager, tried the legendary coach, tried the elite manager, tried a club legend, tried the football guru, tried the next exciting European coach.

Maybe to succeed in modern football you need a top level structure and owners who set the standard from top to bottom.

We can blame Ten Hag and hire De Zerbi and then have this conversation again in 2 years with a lot of you saying "well why didn't we learn from Potter at Chelsea!" whilst Ten Hag goes to another club and gets them drastically over performing.
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This is bang on!
berbasloth4 said:
How long are we going to continue blaming managers??

its The players it’s the stinking attitudes, like keano said when ole was in charge the players continue to throw managers under the bus. They are too over paid too over pampered, playing for United gets there celebrity profiles more exposure they don’t give a feck about the club manager or fans. The players don’t fear anyone. Rather than hiring his mates and mclaren etc maybe ten Haag should bring in jaap Stam or Keane to teach some respect.
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This less so. We've had a decade, 5 managers, and about 5 squads. It's clear what the common denominator is...
 
Raoul said:
Proper as in reliable to get us 25-30 goals. Hojlund strikes me a development project who ordinarily would be brought along slowly behind an established world class striker.
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I agree, spent the whole Summer saying the same and was shouted down for it.

Our outfield signings this Summer were flat out idiotic imo - given what we actually needed.

Spending £110m plus on Mount on Hojlund was incredibly odd - eccentric even.
 
We are in a hole but just wait til everyone is fit. No manager should be judged in the current hole this squad/board is in.
 
Ubik said:
This is my biggest disappointment with him, by far. It all started so promisingly when we went after de Jong, then turned awry when we kept on going after de Jong.
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It's mind-boggling that we pivot to Casemiro after De Jong.

Such a vast contrast in player profile.

Scatter-gun approach per usual with us.

Arnold and Murtough should be fired under new ownership(if we ever get them).
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Every time we lose, he's like, we played well.. wtf
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That’s what worry’s me about him, I can’t believe what I’m hearing in the press conference, he is trying to put our results down to bad luck, we got dominated today and played off the park, he is starting to sound clueless.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
I agree, spent the whole Summer saying the same and was shouted down for it.

Our outfield signings this Summer were flat out idiotic imo - given what we actually needed.

Spending £110m plus on Mount on Hojlund was incredibly odd - eccentric even.
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We were never getting Kane from Levy.

If you think spending 120 mil plus on Osimhen would have been better business, then sure.

But Kane was always a non-option.
 
Mr Pigeon said:
We're pretty much fecked until someone else buys the club and restructures everything. It's like someone asking you and me to build a boat - you can be Head Boat Builder and I'll be your deputy. Neither of us know how to build a boat, so when you give me instructions I have no way of knowing they're wrong. And when you see me trying to hammer nails in with my bald head you have no way of knowing if I'm doing it wrong. We could give that boat to the Pep Guardiola of the sailing world and he would still sink, but since we don't know who that person is we'd probably give the boat to the captain of the Costa Concordia anyway. That's the club's senior management, every single member of it.

People thinking that the next manager will be a success are fooling themselves. We're fecked.
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This.
 
fallengt said:
"De Zerbi In" redditors can feck off.
He's systemic manager whom benefit from Brighton's structure & would instantly crumble at United.
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Ahh the trendy line for De Zerbi now that they heard someone say on you tube.

We don't know what he would do at United but we do know he seems to outwit Ten Hag with ease as well as most of the premiership and on a fraction of Ten Hag's budget too
 
Cassidy said:
Pretty sure he did target players who keep the ball better. One of them Antony is not liked because he does so by the way. He also bought in a keeper that helps and Martinez a CB who helps. He wanted De Jong in midfield and to me thats been the major issue the midfielders we have signed have been miles away from that profile bar Amrabat

Also even though we do not keep the ball well enough. We most definitely keep it better as demonstrated against Arsenal.
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We definitely have improved in keeping the ball better, but I thought we'd see more improvement by now.

We targeted players who keep the ball except in the most important area. Casemiro never should have been signed IMO if our initial target was De Jong. Save the money and go for a different option next year instead of picking a player who is so different to De Jong.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
We definitely have improved in keeping the ball better, but I thought we'd see more improvement by now.

We targeted players who keep the ball except in the most important area. Casemiro never should have been signed IMO if our initial target was De Jong. Save the money and go for a different option next year instead of picking a player who is so different to De Jong.
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I would not have signed Casemiro either, but he did also sign Eriksen who really improved our play before his injury last season.

Main issue for me though is we should really have someone in charge of transfers that is not the manager and not the useless bunch we already have at the club.
 
I'm not sure how good De Zerbi is(if he got the job at a top club), but people comparing him to Potter are being disingenuous. They've gone up a level with De Zerbi.
 
sugar_kane said:
Ronaldo
Greenwood
Maguire captaincy
Getting rid of De Gea
Antony
Sancho
The ownership saga
Having to sell about half of the squad because they weren’t good enough
Not being to sell a bunch of others due to their stupidly high wages
FFP restrictions

I’ve probably missed a few things, but the point is hopefully clear - Ten Hag has had to deal with an unprecedented amount of extra shit while still keeping things ticking over, where he’s got us so far has to be viewed in this context.

Can’t see any other manager having handled it better while getting the same results, and the very best (Pep, Klopp) wouldn’t touch us with a ten foot barge pole anyway if they were available.

The fan and media pressure is going to get horrendous if results don’t pick up, but we need to hold our nerve.

Most of our fans are idiots, and the media want to see us fail - they need blocking out.
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Ronaldo - done last season
Greenwood - why is this his problem?
Maguire captaincy - done last season
Getting rid of De Gea - done last season
Antony
Sancho
The ownership saga - why is this his problem?
Having to sell about half of the squad because they weren’t good enough
Not being to sell a bunch of others due to their stupidly high wages - why is this his problem with 400m to spend?
FFP restrictions - why is this his problem with 200m to spend last window?
 
Cassidy said:
I would not have signed Casemiro either, but he did also sign Eriksen who really improved our play before his injury last season.
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I think they're both short term fixes though. We should have opted for players whose best years are ahead of them and not behind them.

Our recruitment is simply illogical most of the time.

It's only been a season and it looks like Casemiro might need to be replaced or sold soon.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
I agree, spent the whole Summer saying the same and was shouted down for it.

Our outfield signings this Summer were flat out idiotic imo - given what we actually needed.

Spending £110m plus on Mount on Hojlund was incredibly odd - eccentric even.
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To be honest, we could've kept Fred, signed a cheap keeper and blown the entire transfer budget on an Osimhen and been far better off for it.
 
I'll keep him, but i would, at least, tell him that he should use the rest of the squad and make some changes if the game isn't going well. I don't understand why he use the same useless players week after week and waith for the 85 min to make a sub.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
This is bang on!

This less so. We've had a decade, 5 managers, and about 5 squads. It's clear what the common denominator is...
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Our structure is a problem, but there seems to be a crowd willing to absolve the manager of failing here now.

You can also say the common denominator is managers who aren't good often. Every manager we've sacked has gone down a level since then and hasn't had a top club employ them(and some are still unemployed). Speaks volumes.
 
Keep, but I'm struggling to say why.

I'm inclined to give him until the end of the season in the hope that we can have an Arsenal style transformation under ETH and it just clicks.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
I think they're both short term fixes though. We should have opted for players whose best years are ahead of them and not behind them.

Our recruitment is simply illogical most of the time.

It's only been a season and it looks like Casemiro might need to be replaced or sold soon.
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They are both short term fixes but I am not blaming ETH for that. We have seen that crap happening year after year with different managers
 
Like ETH but there is something not right with his tactical approach and he needs to revisit it.

Whether it’s going back to his fundamentals or sacrificing some of his key men, changes are needed.

I’m still hoping there is a Total Football manager in there somewhere. This transition football doesn’t look natural and it looks forced because of his key players. Bin them and play people that will allow team growth in what you know.
 
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