Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

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They had 9 shots, with one on target because Havertz is a Zimbabwean league standard.

Play like that against Man City or Liverpool on their turfs and ship 13 goals again. Maybe then, you would blame the awful results on De Gea’s lack of ball playing abilities or Ronaldo’s lack of pressing.
The Havertz chance was a good chance but they didn’t have alot if good chances. We defended well and starved them of the ball. We didn’t use the ball well when we had it but we were far from being open

Second half especially when Martinez went off things changed
 
Maybe it’s just me but has anyone else noticed that our patterns of play have improved this season and that we don’t look at the football as like a bomb to kick away. I feel like the 6 points from 4 games are more down to fitness issues ( which is still not good enough and on ETH) more than the quality of football.
We long balled it constantly to nowhere all through the match alongside passing aimlessly between the goalkeeper and back 4. If that's improvement, then I don't know what is
 
Excuses.

We were in a comfortable position to get out of there with a point but instead we threw forwards on and left our selves exposed knowing full well we had a patched defence who are shit on the ball.

Garnacho was offside, doesn’t matter if it’s 10 yards or 1cm, the goal doesn’t count.

We insist on playing one way and one way only which is why he keeps picking the same 11 players most weeks because the other squad players can’t do what he’s asking, and which is why we find ourselves losing when they play, and then come a bunch of excuses about him needing more players or more money.

If he didn’t have £400m available to him to buy the players he has we probably wouldn’t have won a single game since he came in.

Yes, squad that was in desperate need of a rebuild would be worse off if nobody was added. Your brilliant insights just keep coming
 
Nice to see people are already looking for him to be sacked. The media spin will probably ramp up over the Sancho bullshit.



Genuinely think it takes 2-3 years to weed out the crap and rebuild a squad that is capable of putting up a consistent challenge for top trophies over a sustained period. If that's what we want then he needs to be given the time to mould the squad to meet his needs.
Casemiro and maybe Varane will need to be replaced next summer, and I doubt Antony has what is takes.
 
Nope, been pretty critical this season as the first 3 games were shite. This was different.

The Forest game was good to be honest. Chelsea lost to them and we came back from 2 down and dominated the game.

I also think we played well today considering our absentees and the fact that Maguire/Evans had to come on.
 
We long balled it constantly to nowhere all through the match alongside passing aimlessly between the goalkeeper and back 4. If that's improvement, then I don't know what is

The only patterns of play we saw today were the CBs taking short goal kicks, leading to absolutely nothing. That’s more than enough to please this fanbase.
 
Uhm, nope. He reached the EL final in his first (half) season, finished 3rd in first full season, 4th next season with UCL final, then CL win and league win in next two.
So he did turn it around quickly and bar the first half season in charge where he didn’t get signings in and last season, has finished top 4 consistently.
Yep he had them playing heavy metal football immediately. And when players weren't up to it, he replaced them properly.
 
The only patterns of play we saw today were the CBs taking short goal kicks, leading to absolutely nothing. That’s more than enough to please this fanbase.
Playing out from the back, Samid. Playing out from the back!
 
Not a good start to the season but calls for his head are absurd.
I don’t think there’s any serious call for his sacking, but for very few, tiny minority. And there likely won’t be one unless we happen to sit mid table by Christmas and already out of the CL.

That being said, there are worrying aspects of his team building and tactics we shouldn’t overlook, the Antony and Mount transfers, Weghorst before that, the insistence on relying on transitions, signing Evans, our persistent poor finishing, the midfield set up both home and away that left us vulnerable to even relegation candidates. Those are legitimate topics for discussion and they shouldn’t be waved away just because a guy or two calls for his sacking.
 
I’ve said it many times but I just don’t think ETH is particularly suited to the PL.

I think he’d do really well at an Italian or Spanish giant, but he just isn’t suited to the current PL.

He’s not fluid enough in game and is too stubborn and fixed overall - reminds me of a younger, more relevant LvG a lot in that way.

He’s a really good coach, a better coach than Ole, but his football at Utd isn’t really any better, and if it is it’s small margins.

The football he wanted to play doesn’t work in the PL so he’s at least budged slightly (more than LvG did) and now stated that he wants to essentially build the greatest counterattacking side on Earth… but I don’t think he’s that kind of coach, and I think he will certainly fail to do that.

But it’s difficult to judge him too hard given Utd is a complete wreck from the top down and is crumbling into pieces.
 
I don’t think there’s any serious call for his sacking, but for very few, tiny minority. And there likely won’t be one unless we happen to sit mid table by Christmas and already out of the CL.

That being said, there are worrying aspects of his team building and tactics we shouldn’t overlook, the Antony and Mount transfers, Weghorst before that, the insistence on relying on transitions, signing Evans, our persistent poor finishing, the midfield set up both home and away that left us vulnerable to even relegation candidates. Those are legitimate topics for discussion and they shouldn’t be waved away just because a guy or two calls for his sacking.
Evans was an insider tickle my tummy signing. His wife is MUTV. Probably best mate with Fletcher. This was an upper management signing.
 
Which midfielder should he play that can carry the ball?
That’s the the problem Bruno sure as hell can’t carry ball and the ones behind him can’t carry ball we need to try something else or wait and see if Mount can fill that role or else we are doomed this season.
 
I’ve said it many times but I just don’t think ETH is particularly suited to the PL.

I think he’d do really well at an Italian or Spanish giant, but he just isn’t suited to the current PL.

He’s not fluid enough in game and is too stubborn and fixed overall - reminds me of a younger, more relevant LvG a lot in that way.

He’s a really good coach, a better coach than Ole, but his football at Utd isn’t really any better, and if it is it’s small margins.

The football he wanted to play doesn’t work in the PL so he’s at least budged slightly (more than LvG did) and now stated that he wants to essentially build the greatest counterattacking side on Earth… but I don’t think he’s that kind of coach, and I think he will certainly fail to do that.

But it’s difficult to judge him too hard given Utd is a complete wreck from the top down and is crumbling into pieces.

Being the best transition team in the world doesn't mean you're solely a counter attacking side.
 
The Havertz chance was a good chance but they didn’t have alot if good chances. We defended well and starved them of the ball. We didn’t use the ball well when we had it but we were far from being open

Second half especially when Martinez went off things changed

They had 16 touches in our box with United only having 5 in theirs. Arsenal literally pegged United in their half throughout the first half.

Rashford’s goal came from a break where Eriksen carried the ball and put a pass to Rashford. Apart from that move, I cannot recollect any other chance United had in that first half.

Ten Hag’s high risk tactics might have worked against Vitesse and Utrecht, this is the Premier League. If you go open like that with mediocre players, you shall be rewarded with punishment.

The evidence is there for you to see. Zero wins against the top 9 clubs last season. Ten Hag has already lost against 2 this season. It’s a trend that he doesn’t have the tactical nous to manage against the top sides of England away from home.
 
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ETH is doomed if he cannot see the lack of athleticism in this team: Eriksen, Martial, Antony and Casemiro are all lacking. Höjlund replacing Martial is a boost but ETH must get the CM balance correct.
 
That’s the the problem Bruno sure as hell can’t carry ball and the ones behind him can’t carry ball we need to try something else or wait and see if Mount can fill that role or else we are doomed this season.
You keep saying try someone else but who is this someone else?

Mainoo is injured and the club fecked ETH by waiting till deadline day to sign Amrabat both players who can carry the ball
 
ETH is doomed if he cannot see the lack of athleticism in this team: Eriksen, Martial, Antony and Casemiro are all lacking. Höjlund replacing Martial is a boost but ETH must get the CM balance correct.
Pretty sure he can see it. Hence we signed midfielders who add dynamism in Mount and Amrabat. And hence we were linked with Onana
 
Set aside the poor results, once again our front line pressing was almost non-existent and not cohesive. You would start questioning if ETH could make that happen, or just like Ole who said the pretty words but never able to coach a team playing like he would imagine.

If you look up Arsenal, their pressing is predictive: when you try to switch front left via the mid, their left winger already started to close down our RB anticipating the ball passed from mid to RB. Then once the mid released the ball, their AM will race to block the line from RB returning back to the mid, leaving RB almost no choice but hoof the ball to the front or pass back to GK .

Our pressing is very passive and never aggressive enough to give opponents real pressure. That's not even about the players there, we consistently see similar things match after match. If you tell me that's what best ETH could coach , then he is no way good enough to bring us back the title, not playing attacking football in anyway.
 
That's exactly what it means.
It’s not really. Transition just means the moment when turnover turns to offensive action, so if you disposses the opponent in the middle of the pitch and launch a quick attack, that’s a transition, it isn’t a counter attack in that case because the opponent wasn’t ‘attacking’, so to speak. The gegenpress is transition, when you force turnover high up the pitch and attack quickly from there. All counterattacks are transitions, not all transitions are counterattacks.

The problem with us is we are overly reliant on that as a strategy, and absolutely hopeless when we can’t force turnover. Even with the turnover we do force out of the opponent, we are wasteful. Hence the mess at the moment.
 
It’s not really. Transition just means the moment when turnover turns to offensive action, so if you disposses the opponent in the middle of the pitch and launch a quick attack, that’s a transition, it isn’t a counter attack in that case because the opponent wasn’t ‘attacking’, so to speak. The gegenpress is transition, when you force turnover high up the pitch and attack quickly from there. All counterattacks are transitions, not all transitions are counterattacks.

The problem with us is we are overly reliant on that as a strategy, and absolutely hopeless when we can’t force turnover. Even with the turnover we do force out of the opponent, we are wasteful. Hence the mess at the moment.



Exactly . Like just last week after going 2 down we pressed Forest really well and should have scored 3-4 in the first half. Hopefully having a proper 9 will help
 
It’s not really. Transition just means the moment when turnover turns to offensive action, so if you disposses the opponent in the middle of the pitch and launch a quick attack, that’s a transition, it isn’t a counter attack in that case because the opponent wasn’t ‘attacking’, so to speak. The gegenpress is transition, when you force turnover high up the pitch and attack quickly from there. All counterattacks are transitions, not all transitions are counterattacks.

The problem with us is we are overly reliant on that as a strategy, and absolutely hopeless when we can’t force turnover. Even with the turnover we do force out of the opponent, we are wasteful. Hence the mess at the moment.
That's a very pretentious and hipster way of calling it a counter attack.
 
ETH is doomed if he cannot see the lack of athleticism in this team: Eriksen, Martial, Antony and Casemiro are all lacking. Höjlund replacing Martial is a boost but ETH must get the CM balance correct.
Without injuries Erikson wouldn't have started and nor would Martial so Im sure he sees.
 
We just don’t look good. Now that’s a problem that only Ten Hag can fix and it’s been an issue for every single post Ferguson manager.

We get rid of Ten Hag and nothing changes and rinse and repeat for the foreseeable future, this just feels like the clubs level now and we aren’t a top team anymore.
 
Arteta finished 8th and 5th first 2 seasons. Only really improved last season.
If we dont give TH at least another season after this, (unless we finish in a ridiculous position), then we are doomed to rinse and repeat failures forever.
Remember it took Fergie 4 years to win a trophy and 7 to win the league!
 
ETH is doomed if he cannot see the lack of athleticism in this team: Eriksen, Martial, Antony and Casemiro are all lacking. Höjlund replacing Martial is a boost but ETH must get the CM balance correct.

Does Antony really belong in the same list as those other three players? Antony might not be Adama Traore but he isnt lacking athleticism like older Casemiro and Eriksen or broken Martial i think.
 
Let’s not forget he didn’t even want Casemiro. Opportunistic signing when it should have been Frenkie.
 
I have a bad feeling that the poor performances are going to remain. Some of the fanbase are gonna turn on him. Some already have. We don't look good and haven't in most games under ETH.
 
Exactly . Like just last week after going 2 down we pressed Forest really well and should have scored 3-4 in the first half. Hopefully having a proper 9 will help
It will help to some extent but we simply have to work the ball better to make the most significant step towards being a great football team. We had 57% possession today and only 4% of that was forays into the final 3rd, with 5 touches in their box. This has been a running theme of multiple United side post Fergie that we can’t craft sustained, meaningful attacks out of a spell of prolonged possession, we can’t pin teams back into their own half and really put them under the cosh for 10, 15, 20 minutes until they break or run themselves ragged. Our football is always chaotic and individualistic, with high margin of error. City is repeatedly lambasted by this fan base for being boring but watching them dismantle Fulham yesterday without even playing all that well sure isn’t boring.
 
I don't know what he and his coaching staff are doing. Zero improvement.
 
It will help to some extent but we simply have to work the ball better to make the most significant step towards being a great football team. We had 57% possession today and only 4% of that was forays into the final 3rd, with 5 touches in their box. This has been a running theme of multiple United side post Fergie that we can’t craft sustained, meaningful attacks out of a spell of prolonged possession, we can’t pin teams back into their own half and really put them under the cosh for 10, 15, 20 minutes until they break or run themselves ragged. Our football is always chaotic and individualistic, with high margin of error. City is repeatedly lambasted by this fan base for being boring but watching them dismantle Fulham yesterday without even playing all that well sure isn’t boring.

It was almost a carbon copy of the much maligned LVG football.
 
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