That's a fair point and i still hold some hope for Antony. My biggest concern is where or how this team evolves into a title winning team though. On paper it looks a good side but miles behind a title winning team for me though, even with all that money spent. I really hope Hojlund hits the ground running for us, although it's expecting a lot from a kid in a new league.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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What even is this post?
We have one of the world's best CB's already
How does somebody who delivers a post like this a full member? Genuinely embarrassing stuff.
I remember it being spoken about here at the time, how important Overmars was given ETHs lacklustre talent ID.
It does appear to be an issue for sure. We need a top notch sporting director above him. Someone who can mesh well with ETHs style.
....and yet still managed to finish third in the table with a couple of cup finals. Now I wanted him at the club and still back him, however I did have concerns when he came in and immediately started looking at players he has managed before. These players as a whole are shite. He needs time and proper backing. There are a number of players who sholdn't be at this club yet year in year out keep their place.
What is the evidence for this, besides a bunch of cynical bedwetters prematurely insisting that Mount, Antony and Hojlund are all failures?
New De Boer
Yes I'm sure that you were thinking that when you dismissed the 17 clean sheets and 12 one goal against matches the team managed last season, most of which Martinez started.
So you admit that it's just a stupid contrarian opinion based on nothing, then. Glad we got that sorted.
Factually incorrect, it's only true for 3 of the 8 permanent transfers so far (and none of the loan transfers), 2 of whom almost everyone would agree are excellent players.
Eriksen
Malacia
Martinez
Casemiro
Antony
Mount
Hojlund
Onana
It's not unheard of for managers to bring a player or two with them when they switch clubs. You can see why it would be useful when he's trying to change the style of play as quickly as possible. But yes, it's obviously a total disaster that Ten Hag wanted Gravenbirch, De Jong and Timber, obviously players wanted only by the most incompetent managers.
Well we actually got 4 clean sheets and 2 'one goal against' sheets in the 9 games after he got injured (and 2 of the goals conceded were actually De Gea's howler against West Ham, who did not create much beyond that, and a 97th minute penalty against Brighton). For comparison, in the 13 games prior (counting from the beginning of year) we conceded 17 goals, and had 6 clean sheets. Our defense did not actually get any worse when Lindelof stepped in for him.
He's a good defender anyway, never said he wasn't. Just not amazing/world class and eventually we may need someone better if we are to compete for CL/league consistently, as being up there will not give us any room for the level of defensive performances we showed against City, Liverpool, Newcastle or Brentford - not even once every 6-8 weeks.
Ew. What a horrible post.
Typical twitter LUHG post.
Just seen this tweet. A bit weird that everyone considers Arsenal title challengers and everything surrounding us is doom and gloom.
Unfortunately ETH is fronting most of the blame for what are essentially club failings in the transfer market.
I know there’s the we have spent £200m narrative, but that is feck all relative to what we need.
This is it and it has been the issue since Ferguson. Every United manager has been setup to fail since the glazers took over the running of the football side
Moyes only summer signing when he joined was Fellaini. People joked about it as if it was Moyes decision to just get that one player but the failure was all Woodward. It set him up to fail and indeed it did the same with other managers.
Even when Jose finally had us going in the right direction the club pulled the rug from under him. Want to make up 20 points on city after finishing second In league? Here’s an academy Dalot and Fred. Oh and somehow make Pogba work cause he sells lots of shirts and is popular online.
Uniteds headline spend means absolutely nothing if the football infrastructure and strategic decisions behind signings and stupid contracts don’t all match up.
I really don’t understand how people say “well this United manager had x spent” and give it no actual thought to why the same sh*t keeps happening to every manager and every squad every 2-3 years. A managers job is to get the most out of the squad, a clubs job is to give the manager the best squad possible with the resources available. The club always lets managers down. Doesn’t matter how much it spends.
United is an outlier of a club. Proves beyond doubt that you can spend a fortune and still fail. They don’t just fail, they fail miserably. Given the spending United should never Be outside top 3 in England and quarter finals of CL. It’s taken some amount of stupidity for the glazers to have us clammering for a top 4 and being happy just being in the CL, but against all the odds they have made it a reality.
Wait, you are removing matches where we conceded quite a few to prove a point that we didn’t concede many?
What a car crash of a post
He was already the captain.
This was pretty much a known fact. I've posted that here several times before. The only reason Ajax didn't exclusively buy Ten Hag players was that he wasn't in charge, Overmars was and all he gaveTen Hag a player he wanted every once in a while.
I remember Ajax fans mentioning that he had a habit of bringing along players from previous clubs to his new one who'd often struggle with the step up.
Looking at his time with Ajax I can see he signed Labyad, Klaiber & Gorter from his previous clubs. There may be others there, I'm no Ajax expert. None of these guys did well at Ajax.
At Utrecht he brought in David, Van Der Meer and Strieder from previous clubs. Strieder is the only one who lasted more than 2 seasons. Again, no expert.
Now here we see a lot of ex players seemingly targeted or purchased: De Jong, Amrabat, Antony, Martinez, Timber, Onana, Sabitzer. Even those players we've signed who haven't worked directly with him have largely either been obvious targets (Casemiro, Eriksen, Mount etc) or Dutch players (Malacia, Wout).
I'm a big fan of ETH and firmly think he's the guy to take us forward. I do however see a trend here which doesn't point at being able to pick up the best value in the market. Mount & Antony get slagged off here all the time. I like Antony and am willing to be patient with Mount, but even so you can't argue they're good value at over £125m.
I'd like to see him do what he does best - coach. We can see already he's a really good coach. We need a better structure in place, whatever that may be, to sign better players at better prices, to give him the tools to succeed.
One of the worst posts I have seen on this forum in years, bravo!
He did not manage Sabitzer before United.
Contender for worst post of the year.
Has your circus left you behind?
I really hope we get an away win against a top club soon. What was the last? Spurs in 21-22? The record is so bad that we might get one purely out of chance.
Can this guy be reverted to a newbie?
Martinez was one of the best cb’s last season. Arsenal wanted him but he chose us.
You should be very happy he’s here.
Do people know with 100% certainty he's got full control over transfers and deliberately only targets players he knows?
Meanwhile, a former City transfer man is at Chelsea and has just signed 2 players he had signed before at City and Southampton for massive money and it's being called great business.
Meanwhile, a former City transfer man is at Chelsea and has just signed 2 players he had signed before at City and Southampton for massive money and it's being called great business.
Best MU manager ever in his first 50 games. Finished third instead of projected 6th finish.
Sure let us replace him, the chance the next manager does better is what exactly?
He has limited knowledge of players outside Eredivisie because he'd never had to worry about it. He had been focused on coaching prior to coming here and we should have prepared a list of players to buy for him with clear, comprehensive intel on what they are like before he came over.
There is nothing wrong with brining your former players in. Slight issue is approving a £85m deal for Antony when you should have been aware of his limitations, but Martinez/Onana were decent transfers and we had the right idea about De Jong.
This weekend we need to beat Arsenal to end all the negativity in the club.
ETH is the right manager to bring us forward but he needs better DOF to help him on signings. So far our signings are more miss than hit.
I think he also needs more time as we can see that our so called style of play is still erratic.
ETH is the right manager to bring us forward but he needs better DOF to help him on signings. So far our signings are more miss than hit.
I think he also needs more time as we can see that our so called style of play is still erratic.
No it's been reported that he has influence of course but we have more of a transfer committee which consists of ten Hag, Murtough, Fletcher, Andy O'Boyle, Steve Brown and Hargreaves. McClaren and van der Gaag have also been involved in discussions on targets.
I disagree with your point on former players. The best managers dont need the comform blanket of bringing in players, and it also depends where they are coming from. Moyes was doomed and clearly out of his depth from the moment he brought Fellani in and failed with the bid for the Everton full back. ETH is bringing in players from a weak league and several have already proven to be poor with inflated fees paid. Its interesting that Ange at Spurs has not brought in a single Celtic player and yet has the looking a much better team already. Our scouting and football structure are still poor but the club should not be giving ETH free reign on signings. Before last couple of days 7 out of 9 signings played for him (3) or against him (4) in Dutch league. Amrabat is another who played for him. Worrying.
[QUOTE="the_cliff, post: 31019901, member:
Just seen this tweet. A bit weird that everyone considers Arsenal title challengers and everything surrounding us is doom and gloom.
[/QUOTE]
It's not that weird, results at Utd are generally OK since Ten Hag's arrival, but the football on offer is actually pretty dire a lot of the time.
For a lot of the games we do win, when watching it feels like we don't have a lot of control and could just as easily lose the game at any minute.
Arsenal play very attractive football and boss the majority of the games they play in. That's why people have more confidence in them.
I find it unlikely United will be anywhere near challenging for a title, unless we're able to somehow start controlling possession better further up the pitch so we can sustain pressure and create chances.
It's fine Ten Hag looking to move the ball forward as quickly as possible and utilise the pace of the forward players, but there needs to be a balance to that approach where we are able to keep the ball as well. Real Madrid played like this but had three players in Modric, Kroos and Benzema who could hold the ball when they needed to.
I feel like when I'm watching United, any decent possession stats we have normally comes from knocking the ball about at the back or across halfway, just waiting for it to be nicked and us giving up chances.
If Ten Hag can't get us playing a more sustainable brand of football with increased periods of pressure and chance creation we won't be anywhere near any titles.
Just seen this tweet. A bit weird that everyone considers Arsenal title challengers and everything surrounding us is doom and gloom.
[/QUOTE]
It's not that weird, results at Utd are generally OK since Ten Hag's arrival, but the football on offer is actually pretty dire a lot of the time.
For a lot of the games we do win, when watching it feels like we don't have a lot of control and could just as easily lose the game at any minute.
Arsenal play very attractive football and boss the majority of the games they play in. That's why people have more confidence in them.
I find it unlikely United will be anywhere near challenging for a title, unless we're able to somehow start controlling possession better further up the pitch so we can sustain pressure and create chances.
It's fine Ten Hag looking to move the ball forward as quickly as possible and utilise the pace of the forward players, but there needs to be a balance to that approach where we are able to keep the ball as well. Real Madrid played like this but had three players in Modric, Kroos and Benzema who could hold the ball when they needed to.
I feel like when I'm watching United, any decent possession stats we have normally comes from knocking the ball about at the back or across halfway, just waiting for it to be nicked and us giving up chances.
If Ten Hag can't get us playing a more sustainable brand of football with increased periods of pressure and chance creation we won't be anywhere near any titles.
Just to add to the Martinez discussion, I also think he’s brilliant but I think it’s still a case of ETH’s shortsightedness with players he worked with.
He’s really good on the ball, tenacious and brave but he still limits how good our defence can be because of his physical qualities. He’s not the biggest, strongest or fastest defender and that is a must in the PL. He’s a good enough player that we can still have a solid defence but a manager more familiar with the PL doesn’t make him his key addition in a 2 man CB partnership.
Arteta wanted him for a completely different role to play alongside Saliba and Gabriel. That way you maintain the physical qualities at the back and also have Licha’s ability on the ball.
I have zero trust or faith in ETH that he knows how to build a team to win the PL. It’s frustrating because I think he’s a really good coach but I think team building is a weakness of his and while we have the jokers in the Glazers and Arnold/Murtough I fear we’ll continue to make decisions that get us further away from the league.
He’s really good on the ball, tenacious and brave but he still limits how good our defence can be because of his physical qualities. He’s not the biggest, strongest or fastest defender and that is a must in the PL. He’s a good enough player that we can still have a solid defence but a manager more familiar with the PL doesn’t make him his key addition in a 2 man CB partnership.
Arteta wanted him for a completely different role to play alongside Saliba and Gabriel. That way you maintain the physical qualities at the back and also have Licha’s ability on the ball.
I have zero trust or faith in ETH that he knows how to build a team to win the PL. It’s frustrating because I think he’s a really good coach but I think team building is a weakness of his and while we have the jokers in the Glazers and Arnold/Murtough I fear we’ll continue to make decisions that get us further away from the league.
Mourinho brought several Porto players to Chelsea when he came over, most of them turned out pretty good (especially Carvalho).
Antony is really the only one that is concerning to me. Onana is a good keeper and has a very distinct style of play, if we are willing to invest heavy money into ETH's vision then he was the right buy. Similar with Martinez.
I do agree ETH should not have decisive say on transfers. He should be free to recommend his former players but we should have people within the club able to assess those targets before we sanction a move. There's no way Antony transfer would ever happen if that had been in place.
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