Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24

[InspiRED]

Nobody, we couldn't afford anyone else. Antony's transfer was born out of necessity we had Sancho in a fragile mind state and nobody else to play there. Default to a player who knows your system hence the Timber, Martinez and FDJ transfers.

The fastest way to replicate what you have and success with is to copy it with the same players who you've already conditioned to your philosophy.

Kim min and Oshimen were who ETH wanted Holjund was never meant to be the leader of our front line and this media and fan base will chew him up so fast when they realise he's not ready for what we need him for.

He wants rid of Maguire, Mctominay, Fred and Donny but they simply don't generate the funds to buy players we need to replace and upgrade them. All of those combined maybe buy us Amrabat BUT even he isn't first choice, so we settle for less.

Haha I can relate to some defence of ETH. But spending 100m euros on Antony is the most ludicrous definition of necessary I’ve ever heard. Sounds like he did it with a gun pointed at his head.

 

[DutchSerb]

No not fine margins. We can’t create just one or two chances all game and expect our players to convert it.

Well I expect our players to convert a chance like that 10/10 times. He's right. We score that one and we'll probably win that match.

 

[Unam333]

Some people cry way too much. Yes, it's not been a great start but, holy crap, the crying across this place makes it unbearable.

It's always like this after a bad result/performance. Best is to avoid this place for the next two three days.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

No not fine margins. We can’t create just one or two chances all game and expect our players to convert it.

Well, it is fine margins. In such a game, you never really expect to create a lot of chances anyway. If you look at City today against Newcastle, for example, they didn't create much either, but the first goal always makes a massive difference.

Having said that, we had 22 shots today and got into some very good areas, especially in the first half, but were very wasteful.

 

[The Hilton]

No, I said ETH and the players don't complenent Mount. Stop strawmanning me. I then went on to say what actually is ETH's style, because last year and whatever the hell this is, is totally different.

If that's what you meant, then you didn't word it clearly at all, but fair enough I'll take your point as you put it now.

As for the style changing this year, it's a disingenuous point as it's obvious - he tried to start similarly last season, and we couldn't even pass the ball out of defence, so he had to adopt a much more pragmatic approach that saw us sitting back a lot more and ceding control. This year he's trying to make us more proactive.

 

[hobbers]

Everyone jumping on the Mount signing being the sign of an idiot manager I assume feel the same way about Klopp and Arteta, who both also wanted him, right?

As for EtH, he's got a way he wants us playing, we're just not very good at it yet - last season he basically gave up after our poor start, realising we simply didn't have the personnel, this time around hopefully it clicks sooner rather than later.

And Pep wanted Maguire…… said all the deluded Ole apologists. Pep didn’t get Maguire or Fred or Sanchez and we “beat” them to all 3. 3 amazing good luck coincidences for City.

And even if they really wanted Mount, Would Arteta be using Mount in the same suicidal way Erik does?

 

[mu4c_20le]

Haha I can relate to some defence of ETH. But spending 100m euros on Antony is the most ludicrous definition of necessary I’ve ever heard. Sounds like he did it with a gun pointed at his head.

This is Erik we're talking about. He is the one who points.

(at poor murtough's head)

 

[7even]

I’m not going to criticize EtH after two games. After the game against Arsenal it’s time to sharpen the knives if necessary.

Rashford, Bruno, Antony and Mount have all so far been playing well below their normal standard. Casemiro looks old and slow, I’m worried that’s permanent but time will tell. We need Martial and Rasmus healthy so we have a natural starting striker and also we need a new DLPM instead of playing with two 8/10 hybrids. Ten Hags new 433 formation doesn’t have the legs and the physicality to compete with strong well balanced midfields.

With Kobbie Mainoo out for another two months we desperately need another physical DLPM with strong legs a’la Amrabat or similar. The top teams will kill us if we continue using Mount and Bruno as offensive hybrids next to our striker.

It’s a problem that Casemiro and Varane seems to have lost a yard and both of them often look fatigued after 70-80 minutes. That’s a worrying sign.

Antony needs competition. We all know what that means. A best case scenario is that we sell Maguire and McT and buy two younger replacements. We can only hope.

 

[Cassidy]

2 of the starting midfield 3 are his signings. None of the 3 are effective running/dribbling with the ball and/or keeping the ball under duress to relieve pressure. Its a pretty stupid midfield setup

 

[OrcaFat]

I like Ten Hag. But despite being heavily backed financially his recruitment is hit or miss, our away record is absolutely atrocious and we don’t score enough goals. He is deservedly being criticised.

I think his recruitment is good. Antony is underrated imo. Martinez is brilliant. Malacia keeps Shaw honest and does okay when called on. The loans were hit and miss but we didn’t have great options.

Away record is poor but home record is very good. I’d rather start that way round and build from there.

The goals is a problem but we do create adequate chances. Somehow we have to start taking the chances. I don’t know what EtH could do about that except keep drilling the forwards and sign a new one…

 

[JimiboyX]

I like ETH, but this lack of talent ID and obsession with certain players is costing him massively. Mount and Antony were never the answer and they were brought in as marquee signings that now can be pointed to as part of the problem after almost a 400m outlay.

This is spot on and the current direction of travel with it does worry me.

If I, as the layperson who is basically clueless when it comes to in-depth tactical knowledge, could see a mile away that Mount didn't fit into this team at all, then why did ETH think he did?

 

[The Hilton]

That’s supposed to be a battering? I wouldn’t even call what Spurs did to us in the second half a battering.

You're right, I was answering hyperbole with hyperbole. To be more accurate, we were by far the better team with the better chances in the first half.

 

[Acole9]

I still think Ten Hag is the man for the job but I have questioned a couple of his decisions recently which I haven't done before. For example leaving the door ajar for Maguire and also this bizarre obsession with Jonny fecking Evans.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I think his recruitment is good. Antony is underrated imo. Martinez is brilliant. Malacia keeps Shaw honest and does okay when called on. The loans were hit and miss but we didn’t have great options.

Away record is poor but home record is very good. I’d rather start that way round and build from there.

The goals is a problem but we do create adequate chances. Somehow we have to start taking the chances. I don’t know what EtH could do about that except keep drilling the forwards and sign a new one…

Hmmm

 

[Solius]

I don’t know what he’s doing. Very confused as to why we look so lost one year in. We play like he took over 3 weeks ago.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Well I expect our players to convert a chance like that 10/10 times. He's right. We score that one and we'll probably win that match.

What it spurs score those chances when they hit the woodwork twice. My point is we can’t keep producing very few chances and expect to win every time.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Well, it is fine margins. In such a game, you never really expect to create a lot of chances anyway. If you look at City today against Newcastle, for example, they didn't create much either, but the first goal always makes a massive difference.

Having said that, we had 22 shots today and got into some very good areas, especially in the first half, but were very wasteful.

Spurs had no problem creating chances. I agree against good sides it’s difficult to create chances. But Spurs are not that good, they have a new midfield, new manager, their best player left.

 

[MonkeysMagic]

ETH is a systems manager and I feel his biggest mistake is thinking that our players have the game intelligence to carry his instructions.

The team, particularly the forwards, barely have a brain cell between them to work out their own positioning and what is being asked of them. The result is a muddled mess where players run into each other and forget where they are. I'm afraid most, if not all, our players can only excel at the hut and rush football that requires no thinking. Even for a brainless footballer, the thought process is that if they run with the ball and 9 out of 10 times lose possession, the 1 out of 10 odds are quite good!

 

[TMDaines]

Hard to stomach seeing how De Zerbi and Howe have their sides playing with a clear identity and being far greater than the sum of their parts. We look just as much Moments FC as we ever did under Ole.

Third and a trophy was a good season, but the actual football is still found wanting, especially away from home. I’ve got no clear what we are trying to do. Bookmakers have us sixth favourites for the title or top four for a reason.

 

[RonaldoVII]

I don’t know what he’s doing. Very confused as to why we look so lost one year in. We play like he took over 3 weeks ago.

Wolves and Spurs with managers who took over weeks ago look better than us in fact.

 

[Red in STL]

I don’t know what he’s doing. Very confused as to why we look so lost one year in. We play like he took over 3 weeks ago.

He's hampered by having the same issues as last season, no CF, once our new one plays I think we'll see a huge improvement, not having a focal point up top IMO is what's hurting us the most, Hoijland doesn't have to score tons but he should open up space for the others

 

[Witchking]

If this carries on under new ownership I can see him being ousted fairly quickly and replaced by De Zerbi IMO.

United is a circus and de zarbi won't even consider a joke of a club like united. Brighton are a better run, better playing, better managed and much better deserving of plaudits than United.

We are still living off the Fergie times just like Liverpool lived prior to Klopp.

 

[RoadTrip]

2 of the starting midfield 3 are his signings. None of the 3 are effective running/dribbling with the ball and/or keeping the ball under duress to relieve pressure. Its a pretty stupid midfield setup

Agreed but pretty much everyone on here would have also agreed that we probably needed a complete revamp of our midfield (arguably none were of the required quality) which effectively says we need 3 midfielders who are new.

I take great issue with us selling Fred if we aren’t buying a replacement. He was not good enough but you can’t just take away what he does and not replace it at all. If ETH genuinely thinks this is his midfield3 as he wanted then that’d be concerning. I’m hoping it isn’t though, as we do seem to be after another (eg Amrabat). And todays game (away against a top side) is precisely the type of game Amrabat might start in.

 

[Dve]

Number one job: Find out why all other teams are fitter than us.

 

[Solius]

He's hampered by having the same issues as last season, no CF, once our new one plays I think we'll see a huge improvement, not having a focal point up top IMO is what's hurting us the most, Hoijland doesn't have to score tons but he should open up space for the others

I think he’s running out of excuses. There are loads of other managers who don’t have what they need and their teams still look at the very least competent.

I’m sick to the back teeth of us playing like shit tbh. There’s hardly any performances I’m proud of these days.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

In excess of £400m spent on players he asked for now. It's not showing on the pitch. Let's be honest.

 

[Sarni]

Not currently a popular opinion on Caf, but I genuinely think that Martinez won’t start under the new manager. He has too many weaknesses in his game. Likely would be a quite good squad player but he is essentially an expensive Heinze, Blind, Ake level of player.

I genuinely wanted to say that but given the affection people on here feel for Ten Hag and even more so Martinez, I resisted that urge. Heinze is an apt comparison I also wanted to make as I think he is basically the same player - he fights, he hustles but once we actually get someone good in his position (like we did with Evra) we will realize he was never that good.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

I'm not expecting us to control games like Pep's Barcelona nor would I ever, but the complete abandonment of any type of control is not going to work in the modern game.

His quotes on being a transition team were met with criticism and I said I wouldn't take his quote too literally, but I might have been wrong.

Your ceiling as a team is going to be limited if you can't pin teams back with sustained possession. There's simply no excuse for Spurs recycling the ball and using it better than us in this game.

 

[RoadTrip]

I'm not expecting us to control games like Pep's Barcelona nor would I ever, but the complete abandonment of any type of control is not going to work in the modern game.

His quotes on being a transition team were met with criticism and I said I wouldn't take his quote too literally, but I might have been wrong.

Your ceiling as a team is going to be limited if you can't pin teams back with sustained possession. There's simply no excuse for Spurs recycling the ball and using it better than us in this game.

To be honest I don’t even know what a transition team is.

 

[Cassidy]

Agreed but pretty much everyone on here would have also agreed that we probably needed a complete revamp of our midfield (arguably none were of the required quality) which effectively says we need 3 midfielders who are new.

I take great issue with us selling Fred if we aren’t buying a replacement. He was not good enough but you can’t just take away what he does and not replace it at all. If ETH genuinely thinks this is his midfield3 as he wanted then that’d be concerning. I’m hoping it isn’t though, as we do seem to be after another (eg Amrabat). And todays game (away against a top side) is precisely the type of game Amrabat might start in.

Bruno and Casemiro would have been fine with the right profile of player next to Casemiro

 

[The Mitcher]

To be honest I don’t even know what a transition team is.

A counter-attackimg team imo. But let's be honest, it's probably just a meaningless buzzword to excite his cult on here

 

[Hugh Jass]

To be honest I don’t even know what a transition team is.

Its liverpool at their prime under klopp.

You could see bits of it in the first half, where we win back possession high up and try to counter quickly, but our decisions were poor. Second half was a shit show.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

To be honest I don’t even know what a transition team is.

The criticism from people in that thread were interpreting(the quotes) it as a team mainly functioning from low block counter attacks and that we would cede possession as well.

Most of our best chances in that 1st half came from us pressing high and winning the ball back which to me is a form of being a transition team. Our work with the ball starting from back to front left a lot to be desired in this game and was the far bigger problem. We don't look like we can string passes consistently together to pin a team back and have waves of controlled possession-based attacks.

 

[KD6-3.7]

The squad looks worst and more unbalanced than it did last season and I believe the person to take the blame for that is the manager.

I just have no idea how Ten Hag wants us to play and it seems like he doesn’t either.

 

[Yagami]

The annoying thing for me is I see the potential. If we had just signed some press resistant players in the past three transfer windows - and there are plenty out there - it would've taken his system to another level. A level where we could potentially compete at the top.

But we cannot identify these players. Every single outfield player he's signed has been a lightweight bar Martinez. His first window was an obvious sign he shouldn't be in charge of transfers with him thinking Casemiro and Eriksen would help solve our central midfield woes and thinking Antony would be a good option considering his limitations, but we still gave him the following two windows and it's going to cost us long term. Again.

 

[RoadTrip]

Bruno and Casemiro would have been fine with the right profile of player next to Casemiro

Agreed. But I suppose the point I’m making is I’m not sure Mount was meant to be that player. At least, not every game and especially not away games against top table teams. I sense ETH was hoping for another, like Amrabat, who would fit perfectly. I think we can all agree such a player doesn’t exist in our squad. McTominay and Maguire should have freed up £50m theoretically. But those pricks seem to be staying.

Why, though, we didn’t prioritise such a player before buying Mount, I can’t explain.

 

[mu4c_20le]

The squad looks worst and more unbalanced than it did last season and I believe the person to take the blame for that is the manager.

I just have no idea how Ten Hag wants us to play and it seems like he doesn’t either.

He needs to swallow his pride and drop Antony, play Mount there, and restore Eriksen.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Its liverpool at their prime under klopp.

You could see bits of it in the first half, where we win back possession high up and try to counter quickly, but our decisions were poor. Second half was a shit show.

Pretty much.

But Liverpool under Klopp at their best were also very very good at pinning teams with controlled possession and recycling the ball. They became much better in possession. They were the only team who went toe-to-toe with Pep's City in that regard for a few seasons. We look pretty subpar when we need to move the ball around from back to front.

 

[Cassidy]

Agreed. But I suppose the point I’m making is I’m not sure Mount was meant to be that player. At least, not every game and especially not away games against top table teams. I sense ETH was hoping for another, like Amrabat, who would fit perfectly. I think we can all agree such a player doesn’t exist in our squad. McTominay and Maguire should have freed up £50m theoretically. But those pricks seem to be staying.

Why, though, we didn’t prioritise such a player before buying Mount, I can’t explain.

Agree with you. Even then Amrabat isn’t the level you would hope for either.

 

[RedDevilQuebecois]

Can he just stop experimenting that bullshit already? We already know who is fecking shit and who has some ray of hope out there. If the performance against Wolves was not already considered a multi-alarm fire, this has to be it.

Mason Mount has no business playing alongside Bruno and Casemiro, who also deserve to get chewed up and spat out pretty hard. Antony... why is ETH wasting his time with him when there is a clear need of giving a kick in the ass?