Unless we get new players and change about half of our starting XI, I can't see how this will ever work.
Erik ten Hag | 2022/23 & 2023/24
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It's glory hunting football. Everyone wants to be on the end of the final pass or dribble and take a shot but they don't have the football iq to pass it around, probe and carve open teams consistently
Eriksen was a good signing but obviously had his limitations and hasn't looked the same since his injury. Just a shame we didn't look to upgrade him with a more mobile player with a similar passing range
Nonsense. Go watch that game again. You're just having recency bias.
We should have stopped doing this 10 years ago. But any manager, all he needs to do is win a match and do an interview for the manager to be proclaimed 'genius' by the fanbase and get total control of the club.
ten Hag, like all other managers post-Fergie, should not have been listened on the transfers. He could have made recommendations, but that should have been when his power over transfers should have ended.
We’ve been so good at home until last night.
Most reports suggest we're chasing amrabat who by all accounts is exactly what you've suggested. Fred is out the door now, I'd expect to see some movement on a midfield signing, whether that's amrabat or someone else.
And that Sociedad loss was dodgy as feck penalty decision. Impressive record.
He is good, but I do not think he is that good. Poor in the air, quite slow, and very dribblable. When we get exposed, like we did yesterday, fast forward with some dribbling skills feast on him.
I've been saying most of last year, that he is a Heinze level of player, not a Vidic one. Nowhere near a priority to replace him, and indeed he offers some very good qualities (never give up attitude, excellent passing from the back, leadership skills, and his positioning is quite good), but I think we needed a player of Gvardiol/Dias calibre to partner Varane, not a player of the calibre of Ake, which IMO is Martinez.
Onana should be a good signing. He has very good fundamentals. A bit overpriced and I do not think he will ever be a top 5 or so keeper in the world, but he is good enough.
Antony has been poor, no questions there. Unless he finds a right leg, I do not see how this changes.
Malacia is bad, he is not good enough even as a backup, but he cost so cheap so it does not matter.
Casemiro IMO was a good signing, but it is not super wise to spend 70m on a 30 years old.
Mount will turn out to be an expensive Bruno backup. Considering that Bruno always plays, I do not see how this transfer succeeds. Mount is ok, but he is not a No. 8.
Eriksen was a no-brainer, essentially free.
Hojlund we need to see, but spending 70m on a player with one ok season in Serie A is also not that wise.
I genuinely think we would have been better if we spent Hojlund and Mount's money in a definite upgrade like Osimehn or Lautaro.
Considering that we have spent around 400m net since ten Hag took over, I do not see that much improvement on the team. I also think it would have been quite easy to have spent better if he wasn't obsessed with signing only players he know. Easily, the best signing from last season was the one player who actually did not have a history with ten Hag or Eredivisie.
True and the fees we are paying for his demands are eye-watering. I think clubs now know that if ETH makes a demand and we come calling they have room to rinse us because he will insist and we will follow blindly. Clear limits should have been set on Mount, Rasmus and Antony because not one of them is worth a penny above £50m and even then that's pushing it.
He also needs to assess the situation quickly and make signings or a signing that can enable us to play a basic 4-2-3-1 formation. His dreamy formation just won't work with the players we have because we lack control and we aren't even clinical to take advantage of the high turnovers he craves. Conceding 20 plus shots to Wolves who will likely get relegated must get alarm bells ringing.
Even then we still came away with the win. Shite performance but certainly better than the opening game of last season.
I'm not convinced Mount shouldn't be an understudy to Bruno, a bloody expensive one if that but with him and Bruno as part of a midfield 3 we are leaving an awful lot of work for Casemiro to do by himself and he isn't getting any younger.
Definitely not, specially Caicedo who will start missing pre season and crying as soon as Barcelona or Real Madrid come knocking.
I know you've been on an anti-ETH crusade for ages (loyalty to Ole?) but this is a stretch, even for you. Eriksen and Casemiro are "shocking" signings?
I think people are reading too much into the poor performance. To me it looked like a team that could've used a few more preseason friendlies.
We are usually slow starters so I'm confident we'll see better performances when the legs get in shape.
We are usually slow starters so I'm confident we'll see better performances when the legs get in shape.
Anthony is EtH worst signing, we spent so long casing him and paid way over value. Pellistri looks a better prospect.
I am starting to question the signing of mount. He wants to play high up the pitch and clearly we need a midfield sitter/ box to box player who can control a game.. Is there a new scholes/ Carrick out there??
I am starting to question the signing of mount. He wants to play high up the pitch and clearly we need a midfield sitter/ box to box player who can control a game.. Is there a new scholes/ Carrick out there??
Sorry if this has already been posted, can't see it anywhere.
The boss seems to approve
The boss seems to approve
He’s done a lot of good things but I have some serious doubts/concerns. I always said in here that I wasn’t simply going to be swept along with the euphoric king making that took place from the very beginning but will instead form my own opinion over time. And he looks like he has little idea what he’s trying to do right now. Caught painfully between two styles, without the correct personnel to completely play either.
He has no greater value on possession than any of our other managers, except when it comes to how well goalkeepers and defenders pass the ball, which is a lot easier than higher up. He wants us to be a transition team now yet does not have one ball carrier in midfield and a right winger that does not offer a direct threat in behind. He will lambast his team for giving the ball away yet has built a midfield with 3 high turnover players and not one who can control a game.
Throughout his time here, I keep reading how this and that player needs to go because they ‘can’t play Ten Hag football’. This seems a buzzword, formed in the mind of disciples and not particularly reflective of anything we’re seeing. It is formed more of an idea than a reality, and the initial idea is that Ten Hag would get us passing the ball and controlling games. What he has done is made us mentally stronger and fixed poor attitudes but in terms of ‘Ten Hag football’, I am unimpressed. All that seems to mean is goalkeepers pass instead of hoof.
The club have allowed him a transfer policy made largely of those who he has come across in his working and watching of Dutch football. Even the England international we signed this summer was based off interest in the Eredivise. We’ve bought his old keeper and are chasing another of his old midfielders. He signed a CM who isn’t even a CM this summer for heaven’s sake.
Anyway, if he is the real deal or a fraud, this season will reveal it. There are no more excuses come the end of this season.
He has no greater value on possession than any of our other managers, except when it comes to how well goalkeepers and defenders pass the ball, which is a lot easier than higher up. He wants us to be a transition team now yet does not have one ball carrier in midfield and a right winger that does not offer a direct threat in behind. He will lambast his team for giving the ball away yet has built a midfield with 3 high turnover players and not one who can control a game.
Throughout his time here, I keep reading how this and that player needs to go because they ‘can’t play Ten Hag football’. This seems a buzzword, formed in the mind of disciples and not particularly reflective of anything we’re seeing. It is formed more of an idea than a reality, and the initial idea is that Ten Hag would get us passing the ball and controlling games. What he has done is made us mentally stronger and fixed poor attitudes but in terms of ‘Ten Hag football’, I am unimpressed. All that seems to mean is goalkeepers pass instead of hoof.
The club have allowed him a transfer policy made largely of those who he has come across in his working and watching of Dutch football. Even the England international we signed this summer was based off interest in the Eredivise. We’ve bought his old keeper and are chasing another of his old midfielders. He signed a CM who isn’t even a CM this summer for heaven’s sake.
Anyway, if he is the real deal or a fraud, this season will reveal it. There are no more excuses come the end of this season.
Casemiro was good last season and will probably be fine this season too as long as his workload is managed. In the context of what he offers long term I'm very skeptical. He's clearly on the decline. He tailed off towards the end of last season (despite getting longer rests through his bans) and there's no reason to believe this season won't be similar. CL will take more toil than EL. Barring new signings there will be way more defensive responsibility on his shoulders this season without McFred (while those two aren't elite players they still offer more defensively than our other midfielders). There's a reason why sensible clubs don't spend 70 odd millions on players in their 30s because those players can quickly become a problem down the line.
Eriksen is meh. Offers absolutely nothing away from home. A featherweight luxury player.
Despite signing Casemiro, Eriksen and Mount for more than €130m in the past 12 months we still need a 6 and an 8 to have any chance of competing. That's shocking.
I don't think he's loyal to Ole, he's just become a City fan since Haaland went there.
Eriksen was great before Carroll deliberately put him on a stretcher. Yes he was a shorter term option but he always creates chances and if we keep the ball, his defensive limitations are well managed.
Great is a relative term.
We conceded on average 4 goals in the games at Brentford, City, Villa, Arsenal. Basically any half-decent team on the road before his injury. If he was great in those games then I don't want to know what a poor Eriksen looks like.
Signing of Mount would be his undoing. At the time of our interest, 90% of the Caf was against this signing, even when he was signed at least half of posters had reservations against this signing.
Alot of people including me subsequently bought the theory that we want to move towards Klopp like style with emphasis on getting the ball back and hitting the teams early on being the prime motive of this signing. people bought this theory and believed in Ten Hag because he has alot of credit from past season which is still the case.
However, yesterday’s performance rolled back the initial doubts I had regarding this signing.
Which was that he does not impact games and get on the ball enough, he is too attacking and does not complement Bruno and Casemiro. He is weak defensively and our games will be basketball like and against better teams we will get undone.
We needed to upgrade on Fred with somebody who is good defensively, able to press and with ability to control and keep the ball under pressure.
Hopefully Ten Hag comes up with some plan to tactically improve our shape and get this lineup performing to the standard. Otherwise this looks like another 60m wasted similar to 85m on Antony.
Alot of people including me subsequently bought the theory that we want to move towards Klopp like style with emphasis on getting the ball back and hitting the teams early on being the prime motive of this signing. people bought this theory and believed in Ten Hag because he has alot of credit from past season which is still the case.
However, yesterday’s performance rolled back the initial doubts I had regarding this signing.
Which was that he does not impact games and get on the ball enough, he is too attacking and does not complement Bruno and Casemiro. He is weak defensively and our games will be basketball like and against better teams we will get undone.
We needed to upgrade on Fred with somebody who is good defensively, able to press and with ability to control and keep the ball under pressure.
Hopefully Ten Hag comes up with some plan to tactically improve our shape and get this lineup performing to the standard. Otherwise this looks like another 60m wasted similar to 85m on Antony.
Sorry if this has already been posted, can't see it anywhere.
The boss seems to approve
In the same interview he also said the team that impressed him the most on the opening week was the one that got battered 5-1. He's clearly on the sauce.
Tbf the performance yesterday, especially in regards to the midfield getting overrun/not having any control, was the same during pre-season, although that was chalked up to the players still getting up to speed etc which can also be used for the game yesterday. What is clear is that Eriksen provided us with control/creativity from deeper but didn't have the physicality for combative games. Whereas Mount has got that athleticism but means we no longer have that control/creativity deeper. Which is fine if you're a liverpool that has a creative beast in Trent however none of our defenders have that creativity and even Martinez who is a great passer is not a creative passer.
To me it's looking like for this tactic to function it will require every player working in harmony which at the moment is not happening. In yesterday's game there is a striker that provides zero hold up play, pressing etc, a winger that as exciting as he is, is still levels below playing rashford in that position. Mount who is effectively playing a new tactical position, Casemiro who despite being in the same position is being asked to do more, add in the fact that the right side defence of Varane and AWB are not creative on the ball, there is still a long way to go.
My hope is that when Rasmus comes in and Rashford gets to go back to Left wing, Mount starts to understand his role better, the players start to get more confident in the tactics that we start to see some more harmony in our play.
This seems very random?
Eriksen was injured in Jan, he played 21 PL games before he got injured (which includes your random selection of games) where he got 7 assists and 1 goal & we conceded on average 1.19 goals a game. In the period he was out we conceded 1.5 a game.
Poor Eriksen is basically what he looked like post injury, unable to last 90mins and without the creative spark (he only got 1 more assist in the 9 games after his injury albeit he wasn't starting some of them.).
True, and I hope we get that done but my impression is we are targeting amrabat as a cheapish squad option because we have spent a lot of our budget on Mount. Utilising the Mount budget on a proper cm could have enabled us to get one that would have strengthened our first 11
The midfield balance is not there. Regardless of which system anyone wants to play, for a top team the quality on the ball of a midfield made of Case/Mount/Bruno is average. At least one of them needs to be extremely good with possession. Ideally two need to be good/very good in possession (not necessarily great).
But this way we are neither creating much nor are we compact and are easily overrun.
But this way we are neither creating much nor are we compact and are easily overrun.
That was an odd experiment against Wolves from ETH, I'm sure he'll give put more bodies in central midfield from now on.
Wolves just outplayed us tactically and some players had bad individual performances at the key moments where we managed to break them down. The game was screaming for the need to have a quality striker in the box who loves to battle against big central defenders and make room for himself and his peers. Rashford was bullied out of the box.
I'm beginning to have my doubts about ETH. Last season ended atrociously with a lot of strange decisions and the signing of Mount over an 8 seems an odd one.
You wouldve thought so, but then you would've also thought he'd have changed the midfield at half time yesterday.
But isn't that on ETH when he bought Mount instead of that midfielder?
Good post.
But the bolded part is my biggest concern. I haven't seen anything from our pressing to suggest our approach will work. We don't press anywhere near well enough for this approach, you'll continue to see us exposed in transition time after time.
Yep.
It has nothing to do with ETH as such, but yep x 10.
I've been banging this drum for years now, and I'd like to stop. But we have made several signings under ETH that are hard to regard as anything but his signings.
Again, it's not about ETH. It's about not moving away from the idea that the "manager" is king. I've said a million times that it's far more important for the future of United to get the structure right than to hire some kind of saviour type "manager".
Yesterday he tried to be too clever, backfired really. Our midfield was completely overrun and Wolves were given too much space to cause us some proper problems. Important we got the 3 points and also important that he remedies his mistakes from this game going forward.
He's a good manager, but at the same time there's no doubt in my mind he's way too overrated by many people here.
He's got a lot to prove that's for sure. There won't be as much room for error if we get new owners who'll be hungrier for success than the Glazers.
I feel (hope) the Mount-Bruno experiment will work eventually. I can see how great it can be - but if it fails against the wrong team, we could get blitzed before halftime.
I trust the man. He had a cracking first season. Casemiro, Rashford and Martinez all looked shadows of themselves yesterday - once our big players actually go up to their standard gears, then we'll look better again.
I trust the man. He had a cracking first season. Casemiro, Rashford and Martinez all looked shadows of themselves yesterday - once our big players actually go up to their standard gears, then we'll look better again.
FFS demand a midfield signing pronto
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