Well that's it isn't it? Massa' Levy will not release his property for love nor money, at least where United are concerned.
Eric Dier | Poch: “He is an important player for us and the idea is not to sell him."
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Well that's it isn't it? Massa' Levy will not release his property for love nor money, at least where United are concerned.
Schneiderlin?
As I understand it, Poch prefers him in a CB role – and they aren't linked with any obvious replacements, are they?
So, based on that, Levy's business savvy and the fact that we don't seem to be linked with him too heavily...I don't quite understand how he has become an obvious target for us.
But for the sake of argument, I don't agree with those claiming he'd be a pointless purchase. He's better than any option we already have if the idea is to deploy him in a pure DM capacity, i.e. someone shielding the defence, providing extra cover for offensive fullbacks, etc. We don't have a single player I'd trust in that role against top level opposition. Whereas he has done well in said role for Spurs, a team that have been consistently better than us for several seasons now.
So, based on that, Levy's business savvy and the fact that we don't seem to be linked with him too heavily...I don't quite understand how he has become an obvious target for us.
But for the sake of argument, I don't agree with those claiming he'd be a pointless purchase. He's better than any option we already have if the idea is to deploy him in a pure DM capacity, i.e. someone shielding the defence, providing extra cover for offensive fullbacks, etc. We don't have a single player I'd trust in that role against top level opposition. Whereas he has done well in said role for Spurs, a team that have been consistently better than us for several seasons now.
The fanboys don't care about that though, they need Di Marias and Falcaos; the main reason they likely supported United was the success, and now there's been a relative drought of that they need exotic stars to compensate and validate their dubious support.
fecking idiots, the lot of them. Fernando Reges and Anderson were signed primarily based on their Champions League performances, but flopped badly in Manchester; Fabinho could end up the same.
Dier was imperious last year until he became a utility man. Give him 5 games anchoring the midfield and he'll be back to the player he was.
So what you're saying is, if he was named Dierinho and played his football for a bigger, more glamorous club such as Real, Bayern, Milan or Darlington, United fans would show a lot more interest?
You just might be on to something here.
It's embarrassing; Pocchettino loves him, Mourinho clearly covets him, and Xabi Alonso rates him highly. I accept everybody has a right to forge an opinion, but the issue is I don't think people actually are; they're seemingly echoing a few ignorant views from previous posts.
He's not the first, and won't be the last! The signing would make a lot of sense from a certain perspective. The problem might be though (seemingly a positive for most), that the frequency with which we'd play a more conventional midfield three means he'd likely be a bit part player. Both parties may not like the prospect because of that. Probably why we're not in for Fabinho too.
At least that's the way I'm starting to think of it, it makes sense; Pogba/Herrera in a two will still be the main MF.
It's not about signing stars, it's about expecting a DM to play more like a midfielder and less like a centre-back.
Dier is only "imperious" if you have narrow expectations for a midfielder, even a defensive one. Replacing Carrick with Dier would be a regressive step and I'm saying that without being a massive Carrick fan.
Another bloody average English player, dont want. Let him and Spurs win all the 2nd place trophies they like.
Dier plays as a roaming centre back in a back-3 which is effectively a DM. He has a very similar playstyle to Sergio Busquets who spends most of his time covering for other players which is often a centre back. Under Guardiola whenever you saw his Barca side horribly exposed its usually Busquets as one of two players back to defend
IMO Dier is the better choice if we are going to play a midfield 3 (which i dont think we are) while Fabinho is a better choice for a midfield 2. This is because Dier is a specialist DM whereas Fabinho is more adventurous in his play, often vacating the space he occupies to go forward.
I get where you're coming from here, but you're forgetting that whoever comes in will have Pogba next to him, so his responsibilities are just not the same as Carrick's have been in the last few years. Since Scholes has been gone, Carrick has had to be our main creative force from midfield, and has had to play with some pretty terrible partners. If for example Dier came in, he wouldn't have the same responsibilities or the same brief as Carrick.
Quite aside from that, I personally believe finding a direct replacement for Carrick is a virtually impossible task; there just aren't that many players of that mould around. Whoever we sign is in my opinion going to be inevitably much more functional.
Narrow expectations of a midfielder? Like Kante or Makele types? I think the specialized midfielder is kind of inescapable in the modern game. It's just so tactical that you can't escape it. Can't count that against a player like Dier for that.
and to counter the criticism of playing a DM like a CB, what do you say about CBs asked to play like central midfielders? It's a give and take that again, stems from the evolution of modern football.
We need a 'limited' Dier type (I don't think he is that one dimensional) to complement a center back like Lindelof that's likely to play the ball frequentlj enough. That, and of all the people we want to help give more time on the ball to its Pogba. That's likely the biggest need
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Schneiderlin wasn't a success, could be for various reasons. But so many people here claim Dier might not be able to take the 'step up' to play for United. I'm just saying I don't understand what this step up is. Right now he is good enough for a team that finished higher than United so I don't understand why so many claim he may not be able to 'step up'.
Fair enough if people think he is a player whose skills wouldn't fit the tactical set up, value for money or something like that. But intangibles such as united quality or able to step up is just strange to me.
In my view, I think Dier would improve you, but you can find better quality players for less than it would take to make Levy consider a sale. Dier is a valued member of the squad, both on and off the pitch and an important part of how Pochettino likes to switch tactically often during games. I think we value him higher than you would be willing to pay.
Why not Wanyama instead? Thought he was more impressive last season.
I am sorry to ask but why are all these Spurs fans talking about finishing above us like it happens every year?
You have a decent team atm a good coach but i think some of you need to crawl back under your rock as you have still won NOTHING!
Dier is another overrated overpriced England player that is not good enough to push on, he is limited slow and clumsy we would be better just letting blind play dm
at least he can pass a ball.
I like the fact spurs fans are arguing for a reason for us to buy him, would of thought you would out right not want to let him go if he was that good.
You have a decent team atm a good coach but i think some of you need to crawl back under your rock as you have still won NOTHING!
Dier is another overrated overpriced England player that is not good enough to push on, he is limited slow and clumsy we would be better just letting blind play dm
at least he can pass a ball.
I like the fact spurs fans are arguing for a reason for us to buy him, would of thought you would out right not want to let him go if he was that good.
I hope are Spurs are not stupid enough to sell him to Utd.
Not against signing him. He's a decent holding midfielder and despite all the BS in this thread he has a decent passing range. He's a fan too which is always nice.
I think that the idea with the people who say that he 'can't take the step up' isn't that United is better than Spurs (it isn't at the moment), but the aspiration for United is to win trophies, and Dier isn't that a good player to play for a club that wins trophies. If the aspiration was to compete for the fourth, third or second place, and not win anything, then sure, but if the aspiration is to compete with the top clubs in Europe, then Dier is nowhere near that level. And considering that we have a shitload of money and we want to go to the top, then Dier isn't the right player.
Obviously, he is good enough for a club that competes to go to UCL and that is the level of their aspiration.
Kante or Makelele types would be great. The issue I have with Dier is that I don't think he offers as much as either of them.
He's also a very good CB, which is a massive bonus when you have a yearly defender injury crisis
So limited, uninspiring and like any spurs player, not worth what they would cost #levyeffect
He's also a very good CB, which is a massive bonus when you have a yearly defender injury crisis
He isn't a better CB than what we have, he isn't a better midfielder than what we have.
I wouldn't say no based on if we play him purely just as a defensive midfielder if it allows Herrera and Pogba more time on the ball to go forward. Unfortunately I cant see it happening at all, the cost is likely to be stupid considering its Spurs.
He does fit in the mould of the very "basic" CDM Jose has a thing for. Very much like Matic, what else does he do other than break up attacks and play it simple. I think Dier has better forward passing though. I'd be happy with Dier as he'd free up Pogba and Herrera to attack more, but I would ideally want someone who can be more creative from that position. TBH if he played for someone other than Spurs i'd be more enthusiastic, but paying Levy a ton of money for an "intermediate" CDM reduces my enthusiasm. What do i really care though? Not my money.
That's fair enough. I personally rate him higher and for me is a top class talent for a defender and defensive midfielder. He is still young considering what position he plays and I think he will only continue to improve due to his mentality. For me, I don't see a reason why he can't be a part of a team that wins the league.
With the money you have I do think you have a point, and could probably spend the money better elsewhere. But I feel people are severely underrating him on here. Maybe I'm just being biased though.
Not every year ... just 3 years out of the last 4.
How many trophies have Spurs won during that period?
What has that got to do with league table finishing positions? The answer is nothing, unless you finish top.
We didn't finish top, but we won throphies....
Anyway who cares, I hope you guys keep Dier, don't want him here
to be fair to @GlastonSpur it's been a while since he mentioned how many years Spurs finished above us. I've been worried.
Ah the famous 'finished above United' trophy.
They'll talk about that one for decades.
They'll talk about that one for decades.
You've ignored the meat of my post and question and made a note about the least consequential line in it. And it is a nonsense reply even then.
I thought you were against specialist midfielders. I say that they're important to the modern game and mention two cafe favorites. You say you like them because they offer more...aren't specialists?
Lazy reply mate.
And football obviously started in 2013 and since that glorious reset Spurs have won the sum of sweet F.A!
Dier was Spurs third best CM and third best CB last year. He is not good enough as defender and quite average as midfielder. He is tall and strong, but not great in aerial duels (only 56 % won) and not mobile or quick enough. He is also not a great passer.
Unless Jose is going to play 3 centerbacks, I can't find any reason to sign him. Even than Blind will be at least as good as Dier in this hybrid CB-CM role.
Unless Jose is going to play 3 centerbacks, I can't find any reason to sign him. Even than Blind will be at least as good as Dier in this hybrid CB-CM role.
You guys really keeping getting into the same arguments with him.
Because United have higher ambitions than Spurs.
I'm totally fine with specialist midfielders. Kante and Makelele were just better specialist midfielders than Dier because they are generally better footballers.
As for the rest of your post, why the hell would having a ball-playing CB require us to play a limited midfielder ahead of him? A lot of teams have ball playing CBs while also picking DMs with more to their game than Dier has. The likes of Pique and Ferdinand certainly never needed someone as limited as Dier ahead of them.
Did they have an Open Top Bus Tour around the streets of Totteringham?
Aha a discussion, yes! I'm not attention hungry, I just think this is an interesting subject
One I'm not sure about honestlySo I'm not saying a CB like that necessitates a limited, defense only /specialist midfielder. It's almost the other way around. chicken and egg philosophy?
So here's the qualm - w the ways teams set up to press and defend, do you really get the maximum out of a player like Carrick or Pirlo? Or any other well rounded CM or are you better off having someone to break play up, defend and let a CB distribute under less pressure? Not necessarily for every game but we see it with other teams. Conte's Chelsea was pretty good in that sense - David Luiz had a great season in that regard with Kante ahead. We countered that by having Jesse and Rashford as runners to bypass midfield and keep Luiz occupied, unable to influence going forward. Zero shots on target. That's more than just marking Hazard. We nullified another important source of creativity that needs a specialist.
now I'm not saying rely on a CB but it is a nice option to have. Whether it's for him or Pogba freeing up, lotta value in a player of Dier's ilk if he can return to earlier form.
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Typed quickly. Realizing maybe this deserves its own thread