Nice glimpses but he plays in a part of the field where any mistake is going to get punished especially against top opponents. There were some first touches, passes and general positioning that would look out of place in the lower leagues. If the guy didn’t have blistering pace then he wouldn’t be near a top club simple as that, so let’s hope his deficiencies can be coached to a high enough degree that he can become a reliable defender. He is absolutely not worthy of a “top defender” tagline at the moment.
3
Season Average Rating
- Appearances
- 18
- Clean sheets
- 4
- Goals
- 0
- Assists
- 0
- Yellow cards
- 1
- Red cards
- 1
- Status
Distribution is wank and it seems that he can only play on the right. Who are we even supposed to pair him with? Him and Lindelof are not dominant enough, certainly in the air.
I thought he had a great game today, especially considering he's been out for a while
That's why I'm championing him as a DM. With all that comes good with him, I don't trust him in CB. At least not now.
Fergie put Jones as DM early on his career, and I think he's actually a better player there than as CB. That "Duncan Edward" comment was made when Jones played as DM. And I see similarity of younger Jones and Bailly.
Aye, aside from the error in the first half he was good. That burst of pace to catch up effortlessly to Aubameyang was brilliant. He's still very raw and error-prone, but he has such an impressive level of athleticism and commitment, and is progressive in possession at times albeit very erratic in that regard (and every regard really). There's really very few players in the squad now that I'm desperate for us to keep, but Bailly looks well worth persevering with. He's nowhere near a top level CB right now but him alongside an experienced defensive leader and organiser and he could be something special.
It's a pity we didn't go for VVD - could have been a good partnership.
Individually he's looser than a floozy's flange. But I quite like him, the rashness and the ability to commit is obviously a good trait for a defender to have. Just trying to accommodate it into this squad without the necessary structure or leader would be a nightmare for Mourinho. Bringing in a proper leader to anchor Smalling and then eventually Bailly after a couple of seasons to continue to settle and iron out the rawness could be an interesting prospect.
He should play regularly. The way he dealt with Auba was just brilliant. Also he is good on the ball, sometimes he just hoofs it but many a times when under pressure he keeps the ball well. He is clearly very talented defender and he should be our first choice CB.
Liked what I saw last night. As another poster implied, his pace gets him out of trouble a bit. He desperately needs a run in the team now to steady down. Games will give him that. Hope our manager can see that, but wouldn't bank on it.
Think him in a back 3 on the right side is good move. If he goes into midfield being aggressive, there should be cover. When hes covering someone else the man has pace to burn
I've been thinking about this as well.
He's clearly an excellent ball winner. He commits himself quickly enough that every ball seems like a 50-50, even when the opposition was in space. His success rate when he goes in is good too (not necessarily winning possession, but forcing play back).
But as a centre back, he leaves behind too much space. Yesterday, every time he stepped up, the pass inside Dalot was on, and the youngster was turned time and again. And we would have been even more exposed had we played a back four instead.
So yes, I think he's more suited to a more advanced role. But he's no Makelele. He'd still need judge when to shield rather than commit better. And he probably won't solve our slow build up problem.
Chalk that up to playing his first PL game in 2 months and Dalot playing his first PL game ever, both in a new formation. They would have been much better in a traditional 4 man back four they have spent their whole lives training in.
Bailly needs an organiser next to him. He has the best pure defending talents of all our defenders but he needs a reference point so he knows where to position himself and when to move up or drop. Left to his own devices he chases round everywhere.
First game in a long time and he still puts in one of the best perfomances ot there. Our best duelling players and he has pace enough to handle Aubamenyang.
He should play every game and will grow into even a better player, he is still young.
He should play every game and will grow into even a better player, he is still young.
Bailly-Lindelof can be a good partnership if Mourinho gave them time to develop an understanding.
I take the point of Dalot's inexperience, which certainly didn't help.
But Bailly's tendency to follow his opponent is not new. And despite the lack of games, I actually thought he looked sharp last night, counter-intuitive as it may seem to my point. Therefore, the coaching staff either do not see his positioning as a problem (unlikely given how sparingly he's been used), or cannot correct it in training (and I imagine Mourinho works on team shape week in, week out).
I agree, however, that he'd benefit from someone who can organise the defence on the pitch. Alternatively, a shift in defensive style (assuming the board fires any manager not qualifying for Europe) would also make him more efficient.
Yeah that worked so well at the start of the season
Also funny that 1 good game from Bailly and the overhype train is at full speed again
Yeah that worked so well at the start of the season
Also funny that 1 good game from Bailly and the overhype train is at full speed again
Maybe go back and check facts. Bailly only started two PL games at the start of the season with Lindelof and was never seen again.
But if you prefer Smalling and co. Fair enough.
Oh he definitely prefers Smalling, he has essays written about him in the Smalling thread.
Because he's extremely inconsistent, and on his bad days he's all over the place in a way that makes it completely impossible to build any kind of stability. There's a huge difference between being the most talented (which he probably is) and actually being the best.
I wonder if that back three could be the way forward. Let the two crazy bastards do their thing, with the relative stability of Smalling sat in between them.
Your facts just reinforced what I said? That they played together at the start of the season and were diabolical
My man of the match yesterday. Great performance. Hopefully he can keep this up, but I'm not convinced as he's too mistake prone
He scares me whenever he plays. He's got all the right attributes to be a top CB, but everytime I see him go in for a challenge I half expect him to wildly miss the ball.
Aggression is good, but he possibly has a bit too much at times and is rather rash. He doesn't need to be so quick into the challenge. No one is going to go past him 1v1. He went toe to toe with Aubameyang in a race and came away with the ball. He doesn't always have to try and take it so early and so robustly all the time.
His distribution is also quite risky at times. I'm happy for him to play a risky pass forward into the front men, but when he holds the ball for a while and tries a pass across the back with players all around him I worry.
Aggression is good, but he possibly has a bit too much at times and is rather rash. He doesn't need to be so quick into the challenge. No one is going to go past him 1v1. He went toe to toe with Aubameyang in a race and came away with the ball. He doesn't always have to try and take it so early and so robustly all the time.
His distribution is also quite risky at times. I'm happy for him to play a risky pass forward into the front men, but when he holds the ball for a while and tries a pass across the back with players all around him I worry.
So, two players Mourinho signed to replace the defenders we had start two games don't deserve to play again because the result didn't go our way?
- We're 8th and results haven't exactly been that much better without them.
Maddening. How anyone thinks Bailly-Lindelof should not start regularly. Not perfect but I think they have the potential to form a partnership and understanding. If Mourinho actually bothered to coach them.
But the defense has.
And no I dont think we're in a position to do something we've already seen was a disaster. Throw those 2 back together for 2 more games and Mourinho would be gone for sure.
Unless thats why you're suggesting it?
To be fair the game in question he was absolutly atrocious, some of the worst defending I’ve ever seen from a Manchester United CB.
Everyone in the team is mistake prone. Because they are badly coached. But he is aggressive, takes the ball forward Doesn't take 20 touches before every pass.
I don't think they should start together either, neither one of them can head the ball and it's just about the most important trait in a Premier League CB.
He was great last night, I was standing near him for the second half and was good.
This was his game in, what, several weeks of not playing. Even Rio in his younger days prone to odd mistakes and lapse of concentration. He should play more, and consistently to build that confidence and fitness again. Maybe next season, with new manager, we will finally see Bailly Lindelof combo.
He will be gone regardless. Once top 4 becomes mathematically impossible.
I just look at Lindelof & Bailly and see two players that are comfortable on the ball and are aggressive. They don't take unnecessary touches like Smalling. I get that Smalling might look more safe but I don't think that helps a team that is so bad at building attacks at all. Having a defender who is willing to take risks is not a crime.
I am not suggesting we would water tight with Lindelof & Bailly but we would at least shift the ball around quicker and get it into the midfield and attack without passing sideways and backwards as much.
Maybe you have different expectations from what you want from a CB. But I think we will concede goals regardless because our team just isn't very good. I rather pick two defenders that have better feet and are comfortable passing forward.
I disagree. He was taking risks but he was not a afraid to move the ball forward or to take responsibly. I rather have someone who likes to tackle and win the ball back than someone who is afraid to make a mistake like Smalling.
Whereas I'm surprised anyone wants them as a partnership. Both are very shaky and inconsistent, and both are absolutely terrible in the air. The only way I can see them both playing is if we use a third centreback (probably Smalling), or get Fellaini to reprise his role earlier this season where he played so deep he was almost a centreback himself. They simply can't handle aerial balls themselves.
Smalling doesnt look more safe.
He's a better CB
He makes less mistakes and is more consistent. He's also far better in the air than either of the other 2, which is 1 of their biggest weaknesses. He's also very good at covering players out of position which tends to be the case for the players he's playing with.
People list all the things Bailly has. Strength, speed, aggression... Yeah great Jones has all those things too. But why are people sour on Phil Jones? Mistakes. Perceived inconsistency (even though for most of last season he was quite consistent)
Being a consistent semi hard working CB who makes less mistakes than the others and reads play far better, able to cover for teammates on a regular basis is more important than physical attributes or being more comfortable on the ball.
1 good game from Bailly doesn't mean he wont have a mare in the next couple of games. Its not his issue that he cant have 1 good game. His issue is concentration, consistency and too many mistakes. That will take 10-15 games to show if theres much progress on that front at all. It might take a whole consistent season to show its really something thats no longer an issue. 1 game shows nothing.
Lindelof on the other hand isnt like Bailly. He's a bit more consistent but has also made several mistakes and he isnt as good as Bailly on a good day, but better than him on a bad day. You know a bit more about what you're going to get from Lindelof - which is a 6/10 performance while Bailly might be anything from 2/10 to 8/10
He isnt a semi hard working CB, he generally makes less actions than most CBs - I know because I've actually looked at these things. I look at the stats not just of our players but other players in the league in the same positions. He gets people praising him and calling him man of the match when he makes 1 or 2 good defensive actions despite doing less than most players in his position simply for not making too many mistakes in a game. Well when you do less stuff you're restricting the amount of times you might make a mistake. But someone has to do the work, so its more defending for others.
Smalling, Bailly, Jones and Lindelof should be competing for 1 CB spot next to a new CB. I have no doubts that Smalling should be starting next to whoever that is. But if Bailly does progress in the ways that he needs to I could see him having a run in the team too
Then why the hell do you want Lindelof who does the least in order to avoid making mistakes? "Maddening"
A consistent run of games will help him.
I do think he needs a leader next to him though. Hes still 24 and the ones he has to learn from arent exactly Rio or Vidic types.
I do think he needs a leader next to him though. Hes still 24 and the ones he has to learn from arent exactly Rio or Vidic types.
It seems that his playing style suits best when we play with 3 CBs. When you pair this kind of loose cannon with someone like Jones at the back, it's catastrophe waiting to happen.
Like the guy but he's a huge liability.
Like the guy but he's a huge liability.
I've said it for a long time. This guy can be our best defender by far if he just gets some coaching. He plays well for a long time but as soon as he makes one mistake some people on here go berzerk on him and he gets dropped.
For the love of god stop playing Rojo, Jones, Mctominay, Darmian or even Matic in defence. Bailly, Smalling and Lindelof are the only ones who deserve to start.
For the love of god stop playing Rojo, Jones, Mctominay, Darmian or even Matic in defence. Bailly, Smalling and Lindelof are the only ones who deserve to start.
He's 24. The likes of Alderweireld & Vertonghen, considered to be top tier CB's in the PL, just got their move to Spurs or were sitting on the bench at Atletico Madrid at that age.
When the attributes are there (strong, pacey, aggressive) and they are there with Bailly, you just gotta give him a consistent run to iron out the flaws.
When the attributes are there (strong, pacey, aggressive) and they are there with Bailly, you just gotta give him a consistent run to iron out the flaws.
Are you Chris Smalling?
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