He is going Chelsea.
Enzo Fernández | signs for Chelsea
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He is going Chelsea.
To be fair we got Kovacic off Real Madrid when he was in his prime and Fabregas from Barca when he was 27.
Thanks.
I think the guys were referring to starters. Kovacic had 10 starts for RM and Fabregas was clear 3rd choice.
If you want to make it about United, I think the Casemiro/Varane generation is the last one that would still want to join United because of the history and chance to add to their legacy.
We need to win some leagues or CL soon enough.
Yeah I wouldn’t compare Kovacic or Fabregas to Varane and Casemiro.
Would you?
Which brings FFP into question but from one article I read beforehand it sounds like these deals are varied which installments to not be sanctioned for spending. So it could perhaps harm them in future windows to balance the books.
Fabregas is pretty comfortably the best of the four players listed there. Kovacic is definitely not on the level of Casemiro and Varane but also moved at a younger age when there was much more upside.
10? By my count he had 46 starts with a further 48 appearances off the bench.
Fabregas was horrendously misused by Barca for years. It is still completely beyond me that anyone with half a brain would look at him and his skillset and think that he should play as a false 9.
We will have to disagree on Fabregas comfortably being a better player than both Varane and Casemiro. He isn’t and I’d imagine their CVs show exactly why.
Barca off loaded Fabregas as he didn’t really fit for them. It wasn’t the lure of Chelsea that persuaded him to leave.
Oh I certainly wouldn't argue that the allure of Chelsea is in any way comparable to that of Man United.
But Fabregas was absolutely a better player at his peak than either Varane or Casemiro. It's not his fault that Pep decided to use him in insane ways that did nothing to highlight his skillset (not that I'm complaining because this is basically why Chelsea were able to get him at a cut-rate price).
Was Fabregas ever considered to be one of the best midfielders in world football, he was good but I don't think was considered one of the very best, Varane is considered one of the best CB's in the world
That is just not true.
...what? Cesc Fabregas, the guy who is 2nd all time in the PL for assists despite playing 3 seasons in his prime outside of the PL is not considered one of the very best? You actually think Varane is the better player at his position than Cesc fecking Fabregas or is this post a silly trolljob?
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Of course it is. Show me a season where Casemiro and Varane were as good as Fabregas' 14/15 season with Chelsea when he had 5 goals and 21 assists.
Casemiro and Varane are both excellent players but neither are or ever have been as good as apex Fabregas - not that that is anything to be ashamed of because peak Fabregas was a monster.
Peak Varane/Casemiro not as good as peak Fabregas. Let me process that for a while…
Casemiro is probably one of the greatest DM's of all time. Varane one of the best centre backs of his generation. Fabregas was a better player at Arsenal than Chelsea.
Beginning to think Potter had good players, the money spent by Chelsea is crazy so far
Yes Varane with his 4 CL, WC winner and runner-up medals, Nations cup winner medals is comfortably worse than Fabregas who was never good enough to be starter at that level. Or Casemiro who was the engine behind the 3-peat Real team. Behave.
And we are obviously talking about Kovacic in his last season, when he had 10 starts.
And we are obviously talking about Kovacic in his last season, when he had 10 starts.
Okay this explains a lot. You are likely an American who only understands soccer from the prism of “box stats”.
Yeah I'm struggling with this Fabregas > Casemiro thing as well
Throwing attacking stats is weird as well, like comparing a CB with a striker. Put it this way Fabregas was never considered the best in his position and couldn't even get a game for Barcelona at the time he was sold whereas Casemiro outside of PL bias was considered the best DM in the world
Throwing attacking stats is weird as well, like comparing a CB with a striker. Put it this way Fabregas was never considered the best in his position and couldn't even get a game for Barcelona at the time he was sold whereas Casemiro outside of PL bias was considered the best DM in the world
Sorry mate you’re way off on this.
Varane is considered one of the best defenders of his generation, as is Casemiro in his position.
To suggest Fabregas is comfortably levels above both is ridiculous.
Incredible. Both players were key players in a team that won the CL 3 times in a row ffs. They are levels above Fibreglas.
Stop feeding the troll.
Hey fair enough I can see where I'm outnumbered and I am happy to concede the position (though I'd be very curious to see whether this was the consensus 3 years ago).
But let's put it this way - if you had no other players in your team and had to pick one of the three to build your team around, I just don't understand how anyone doesn't pick peak Fabregas. He's literally got the second most assists in the history of the PL whilst playing his entire career as a central midfielder. He's more or less Kevin de Bruyne before Kevin de Bruyne and both are better than Casemiro (who isn't a better defensive midfielder than Kante or Kimmich) and Varane (who was overshadowed by Sergio Ramos for all of those CL titles and who isn't actually better than the likes of VVD, Thiago Silva, and Chiellini).
Taking the mickey with that comparison
Glad to know that Dani Carvajal is apparently the best right back the world has ever seen
Christ!
You're taking apex Casemiro over apex Kante? Yikes.
I can only assume you’ve not seen much of Casemiro at club level (that said even at the WC he was phenomenal).
Casemiro is one of the best DMs of all time. At worst he’s on par with Kante although looking at their current levels and how Kante has tapered off I could say Casemiro seems to be having a much longer Apex.. Kimmich isn’t a good shout either in my opinion. Far too early.
You’re also underrating Varane too it seems.
Yep. Guys like Varane and Casemiro would be happy to stay at Madrid - but United presents a unique opportunity of a club as close as possible to the size, history, and financial power of Madrid, to be a worthy different challenge to appeal to them.
Obviously. I assume anyone would. I'd even take Fernandinho over Kante.
As us United fans know only too well after 6 years of Pogba you can't build a team around those players if the foundations aren't there so I'd still pick Casemiro over peak Fabregas. Without sounding condescending I don't think you realise how good Casemiro is which is understandable as I didn't (and I guess many other United fans didn't either) until you see him play for your side. He's honestly world class and the best signing we've made post Fergie. Bruno had an incredible first 18 months (better than any 18 months Fabregas ever had I'd wager) but Casemiro is just on another level
How is it yikes?
Do I need to bring up again how key Casemiro was to Madrid? That once he became a key player, they started dominating the biggest competition?I’m pretty confident if we asked our Madrid and Barca fans what they think in terms of a comparison between Casemiro/Varane to United and Kovacic/Fabregas to Chelsea they’d tell you who the better and most sought after pair were.
I’m genuinely shocked this is being debated.
I’m genuinely shocked this is being debated.
They're different types of DM really, Kante at his peak probably covered more ground than 98% of other players in the world whereas the two Brazilians probably read the game better and did less tackling and more interceptions (be interesting to see the stats)
Kante definitely didn't have the passing range of either of the Brazilians
Living up to your name I see, plenty of posters after me are saying the same things
Fabregas and Casemiro do not play in the same positions so I do not know why there is a comparison.
Two things I would say though is that Fabregas is one of the best midfielders I have seen play in England and he is the second best teenager behind Rooney that I have seen in England.
Two things I would say though is that Fabregas is one of the best midfielders I have seen play in England and he is the second best teenager behind Rooney that I have seen in England.
Watched plenty of him - and at Madrid he wasn't strictly a DM. Casemiro's unique strength when at Madrid was that he was a DM when out of possession but when Madrid had the ball he was the most advanced midfielder of the 3 which led to his excellent goal-scoring numbers. He's a tremendous player but he's never obviously been the best at his position the way Kante was. Your point about their respective fitness and longevity is well taken but when both were fit no one with half a brain would take Casemiro over Kante (as evidenced by Real Madrid trying to buy Kante as a replacement for Casemiro multiple times).
Alright then, the adults are speaking now. Enjoy your time in the kiddy pool.
This is a fair post 100% and I think you're right to bring into question some of the fundamentals about team-building. My favourite player ever is Michael Essien so I do have an appreciation for the value a defensive midfielder can bring, but I just feel that Fabregas' skillset is far rarer and harder to find.
How is it yikes?
Genuine question - you think it would have been any different with Kante there? Swap Kante for Casemiro and Madrid win all of those CLs and probably put up more of a fight in the league since Kante is the more useful player against a deep-lying defense. Swap Casemiro for Kante and there's no shot Leicester win the league in 15/16 and there's probably no way Chelsea win in 16/17.
Stylistically I prefer the two Brazilian's for the reasons you've described.
I think you’re getting such push back because you suggested Fabregas was ‘comfortably’ a better player than Varane and Casemiro then eluded to Kovacic not being far off himself.
You’ve then gone to extremes again in the comparison of Kante and Casemiro when the truth is there’s little between them.
RE Fabregas though I will say if he was that unique it is odd that Barca didn’t really have much use for him and he wasn’t the main man for Spain either?
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