I prefer my DM's to be a bit less limited in possession.
Enzo Fernández | signs for Chelsea
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I do as well. Peak Kante was brilliant don't get me wrong and had we got him instead of Pogba in 2016 we'd of probably done a lot better than we did but some of the passing of the two Brazilians is up there with the with the best creative CM's
Fabregas was a great player no question, teenager wise Rooney is ahead, IMO so was Norman Whiteside though that's a different era and Fabregas overhauls him, Ryan Wilson, aka Giggs was also pretty special
Mate I said nothing about Kovacic being on that level. I'm not that deluded!
Fabregas came about at a historically bad time for him because he got shoehorned into the ridiculous false 9 role for both Barcelona and Spain due to the presence of Xavi and Iniesta. It was pretty obvious he was the successor to them but never got a chance to prove that at club or international level until he went to Chelsea, when he was played as a deep-lying midfielder and could express himself via his passing which led to 18 assists and countless highlights.
And I think that’s the point. He was never the best of his generation. He was always second fiddle in that regard.
Look who he was competing with, Xavi and iniesta were around so not really suprising he wasn't the main man for Spain
And that’s the point.
It definitely is!
Apologies for my (major) part in it - genuinely want to wish everyone the best and a happy New Year!
Why would he want to go that graveyard?
Fabreagas better than Casimero? Do me a favour son
Fabreagas better than Casimero? Do me a favour son
Don’t apologise, it’s all good. Interesting getting different views. Hope you are all well
Come on, this is shocking... Varane has been a great CB for a decade and been a key player and so successful for club and country. He's undoubtedly world class and one of the best of the modern era. Same with Casemiro. There's a reason Real Madrid were so successful, and only became this successful once Casemiro came in. You're underrating them because they played alongside greats, but they are greats themselves, and together they formed a great team.
Fabregas yes was very good but he was never on that level. He was never close to De Bruyne's peak. Kimmich ahead of Casemiro? fecks sake. Thiago Silva ahead of Varane? Again... Shocking.
Definitely, and sadly there is another name I could put in there but I cannot see him wearing red anytime soon.
We've all got our biases but I cannot possibly conceive of a rational argument for Varane being better than Thiago Silva. Seriously?
What has Thiago Silva shown over Varane???? Varane was quicker, stronger, better in the air, a better 1 v 1 defender, and then has won the world Cup and reached another final with France, reached the euros final, and won 4* CL titles. Thiago Silva wasted his career away in an irrelevant league and did feck all in the CL until the win with Chelsea. Great CB, but I'm not sure how he ranks ahead of Varane?
I acknowledge it's a bit reductive and harsh on Thiago Silva, but he did that to himself going to PSG for so long. Your chance to go down as a truly great player is thrown in the trash when you move to an irrelevant league (comparatively). If you want to be rated among the best, you need to be in a league that competes with the best - and then your success/achievements there will play a huge part. Especially as a CB.
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Varane's record says he is, he's played in 2 WC finals winning once, Thiago hasn't, 4 CL winners medals, Thiago has 1
You're on a loser pursuing this one
Well he's just better at football - he's still a better player than Varane despite being a decade older in the same league.
I think you're entirely correct to say that Varane has had a better career. Thiago Silva is still the better footballer and I don't think you'll find much support for arguing otherwise outside of Man United's base..
Team success is a ridiculous way to evaluate centre halves but speak your truth mate
Thiago Silva is not better than Varane.
I’m probably late to the party on this … but right now ill take anyone who can safely pass the ball 8 yards to another player. Mount had to be trying to be as bad as he was today.
Forget Fabregas, these guys weren’t even Ramires most of today.
Forget Fabregas, these guys weren’t even Ramires most of today.
I doubt he has seen much of Varane or Casemiro. Feck it, I even doubt whether he has seen Silva before he joined Chelsea.
I don't see what makes him better at football. And to claim he is current day a better CB is just showing you're a WUM, come on
It's a fair belief to believe that Thiago Silva at his best was a better CB - however many would disagree. But he was also a great CB, so whatever, plenty will think that. But current day to say that is just flat out incorrect.
Also don't forget to include real Madrid's fan base, and the French football world, and most La Liga watchers. So that about covers like... 75% of football fans?
It really isn't... a top CB partnership is fundamental to team success. And you can't get sustained success without it. And Real Madrid sure as shit wouldn't settle for anything but the very best for a decade like they did with Varane. It's really not a coincidence that he has been so successful throughout his time as a key player for both club and country, a success that very few all time can live up to.
How else are you going to rate a CB other than how effectively his teams keep out the opposition, and how they lead their teams to success on the biggest occasions?
An individual is nothing without a team, therefore a team's success is a big part of the equation, u
Couldn't have put it better, and I'll also add that having Casemiro in front of him certainly helped!
@TheMagicFoolBus - probably better to stop , you're digging a hole that'sbut as a team they were really something getting bigger and bigger
Incidentally the best CB parnership I saw play was Ferdinand and Vidic, individually they weren't the elite CB's
??? Both Ferdinand and Vidic were world class.
Some very strange debate going on in here.
Casemiro has a claim to be the best CDM of this generation, it’s between him and Busquets.
Fabregas was great, but hes nowhere near that level.
Kante was never a CDM. Drinkwater at Leicester was the deepest, and Jorginho at Chelsea.
Yep you caught me. Really great contribution to the thread here, congrats.
I don't see what makes him better at football. And to claim he is current day a better CB is just showing you're a WUM, come on
It's a fair belief to believe that Thiago Silva at his best was a better CB - however many would disagree. But he was also a great CB, so whatever, plenty will think that. But current day to say that is just flat out incorrect.
Also don't forget to include real Madrid's fan base, and the French football world, and most La Liga watchers. So that about covers like... 75% of football fans?
I don't think it's incorrect to say that Thiago Silva is still better than Raphael Varane. For all of Chelsea's issues right now Thiago Silva is the least of them. He's absolutely still a top 5 CB in the world because his ability to read the game, positional sense, foul-drawing, short & long passing, and press-resistance are are second to none. Varane is not and has never been on his level as a captain and a leader from the back.
The point I was (admittedly) clumsily trying to make is that Varane doesn't bring anything unique to the table that Thiago Silva wouldn't have managed to do, and therefore their respective team success is more a matter of circumstance rather than a judgement on their respective quality.
Silvas legs have gone. Chelsea always look like conceding when they play a back 4.
If Thiago Silva was world class still he’d still be at PSG.
He's still better than Marquinhos. Also if he was still at PSG he'd not have won a CL.
Chelsea have myriad defensive problems (largely stemming from Cucurella and Koulibaly), but Silva is not now and never has been the issue. He's perfectly comfortably in a back 4 as he demonstrated with Brazil.
Ferdinand and Vidic were world class as a partnership no question, as individuals maybe not quite elite level - that's my opinion and feel free to disagree
I'd be hard pressed to say whether Casemiro or Busquets were better than each other though - that's a very thin line between them!
Yeah that's a completely insane opinion. I've been watching us 30 years and Ferdinand is the best centre half I've seen either for or against us.
Everyone will.
Well I've been watching for 50+ years, that Bobby Moore was pretty good, Franz Beckenbauer wasn't bad either, Maldini was no slouch either, Ferdinand was a Rolls Royce CB no question but he was way better with Vidic than anyone else
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I've no doubt they will, would be a boring forum if everyone had the same opinion!
Well this one's easy.
Makelele. Regarded by many as the best defensive midfielder of all time and had the position named after him!
I tell you what though. What a midfield this would be:
Kovacic Fabregas
Casemiro
Kovacic Fabregas
Casemiro
This thread should be renamed as “insane opinions thread”
Some of the whoppers include
* comparing signing Kovacic from RM to Varane/Casemiro
* claiming that the Fabregas signed from Barca was a lot better than Case
* Rio wasn’t elite individually
He was the tits.
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