Enzo Fernández | signs for Chelsea

[DJ_21]

Top player but won’t be cheap. Can’t see this one happening. Think our main midfield target is still De Jong, maybe Bellingham.

 

[Adnan]

From what I've seen of Enzo which is mainly World cup games and YouTube videos. I know he can pass and I know he can win the ball, but how good is he under pressure. In the world cup, teams don't utilize the sort of tactics we see in the EPL, if he is good in that aspects I wouldn't mind the 120m fee, getting that caliber of midfielder in would take our game to another level.

What he didn't come up against in the world cup was high pressing teams. He was utilised as the deepest midfielder but had plenty of space to turn and progress play. Even in the final, France allowed Argentina the space to play through the defensive third unchallenged. The two managers who would've tested him by applying coordinated high pressure, were Luis Enrique and Hansi Flick but they were knocked out earlier than anticipated. And both Luis Enrique and Flick were the best two coaches at the world cup imo. And their approach to the game is better suited to a longer stretch of games like a league format.

But it's pretty clear from watching Enzo Fernandez play, that his biggest weakness could be his inability to resist the press at a high level. And in a midfield with Casemiro and Fernandes who are both weak in that regard, it could well put us at a disadvantage against teams who are adept at pressing high and cutting off the passing lanes.

So if the aim is to press high and play the game in the opponent's half. I think it would make much more sense to have at least one central player who has the ability to resist the press and carry the ball through the lines whilst also having the composure to find the final pass. Frenkie de Jong in that scenario makes much more sense and we also have players like Hannibal and Mainoo who have the ability to potentially develop into that player who would provide the craft and guile on the ball, as well as the ability resist the press and carry the ball through the lines.

You mention Modric, and Modric at 20/21 years of age was displaying a high level of technical play, where carrying the ball and being a roaming playmaker would see him be a menace both centrally and out wide. And it was him being played in such a advanced playmaking role in his formative years which I believe made him such a well rounded central midfielder in his later career. The game below against Arsenal when he was at Dinamo Zagreb, displays his attributes in a advanced playmaking role which he would later transition to a more disciplined central midfield position where he'd display the full repertoire.

 

[TheNewEra]

Top player but won’t be cheap. Can’t see this one happening. Think our main midfield target is still De Jong, maybe Bellingham.

I think a good ball carrier in a De Jong style is Bellingham, especially if you want to play passes between the lines.

FDJ will never leave Barca so its a waste of time.

I wouldn't mind Enzo if he's available, him, FDJ or Bellingham would set our midfield until Casemiro needs replacing in 3 years.

With Jude or Enzo you're getting a potential world class player for 10 years.

 

[DJ_21]

I think a good ball carrier in a De Jong style is Bellingham, especially if you want to play passes between the lines.

FDJ will never leave Barca so its a waste of time.

I wouldn't mind Enzo if he's available, him, FDJ or Bellingham would set our midfield until Casemiro needs replacing in 3 years.

With Jude or Enzo you're getting a potential world class player for 10 years.

100%. No doubt if we got Jude or Enzo though one of the Spanish clubs will come in for them in a few years. They’re players to make massive profits of though if they did want to leave. I disagree with FDJ not leaving Barca… I think we was close last summer but the only thing that stopped us was not being in the CL. If we get CL football and De Jong feels it’s time for a new challenge then we’ll end up getting him. How do you see us setting up with 1 of them 3 midfielders? 4-3-3? But then where does Bruno fit in? It will either be Casemiro, new signing and eriksen or Casemiro, new signing and Bruno. But Bruno plays his best football as a 10 IMO.

 

[TheNewEra]

100%. No doubt if we got Jude or Enzo though one of the Spanish clubs will come in for them in a few years. They’re players to make massive profits of though if they did want to leave. I disagree with FDJ not leaving Barca… I think we was close last summer but the only thing that stopped us was not being in the CL. If we get CL football and De Jong feels it’s time for a new challenge then we’ll end up getting him. How do you see us setting up with 1 of them 3 midfielders? 4-3-3? But then where does Bruno fit in? It will either be Casemiro, new signing and eriksen or Casemiro, new signing and Bruno. But Bruno plays his best football as a 10 IMO.

It'll Casemiro holding, Enzo/FDJ/Bellingham (whoever United can get) in a B2B role and Bruno/Eriksen (who rotates to a DLP role if needed for less control) as a 10 imo.

------Bruno/Eriksen/Enzo
Enzo/FDJ/Bellingham/Eriksen-Casemiro/McT

Like that, it just offers rotation for us as we compete on all fronts.

I don't think Eriksen in that deeper role is a long term solution, especially as he gets older he will drop off physically because of his build IMO we have a season or two to really get a starter in that position.

United also need a ball carrier there, which is just not Eriksen.

(Depending on who United can actually get)

 

[Nick.]

He is very very good but spending €120m does not seem like a good idea to me.

 

[NoPace]

€120m is absolutely bananas even if the lad is great

It is, but at the same time if we spent 120M each on 15 players since Fergie went out instead of what we've done instead with the same figure (ballpark) we'd have been better the last decade, with the rest of the squad being Rashford, Greenwood (for his short but quite productive career here), Lingard, McTominay, Williams and Henderson and then maybe add a couple guys who we sold for less than they'd have been worth to us as guys 20-25 like Ben Pearson, Januzaj and maybe we keep someone like Paddy McNair since there's no CBs in the above list and we only got 5.5M for him and he was technically pretty good for a CB/DM.

Zidanes and Pavones is fine if we can start developing some academy guys and hit on some cheap youth that are older academy signings like Garnacho and Hannibal. And we have a clear direction footballing wise now. Not sure it'll suit our academy unless we reinvent it, but guys like Welbeck and Cleverley were at least as good as say Fred and Elanga.

What matter is elite talent these days. If we get Gapko and he works out as a forward, we're really just an Enzo in midfield, a RB, a CB away and let's say another CB because of Varane's health (City have 5 CBs, the minimum really is 4) from looking pretty much complete as a squad, then it's just a matter of guys taking to Ten Hag's system, and if not, the guys who are question marks like Sancho and inevitable failures like McTominay can be moved on for enough money that you can sign 40M or 20M pound replacements who are at least gonna be like Malacia (bit better even, he was cheap) or Eriksen types (frees, probably not quite this good).

 

[TheNewEra]

It is, but at the same time if we spent 120M each on 15 players since Fergie went out instead of what we've done instead with the same figure (ballpark) we'd have been better the last decade, with the rest of the squad being Rashford, Greenwood (for his short but quite productive career here), Lingard, McTominay, Williams and Henderson and then maybe add a couple guys who we sold for less than they'd have been worth to us as guys 20-25 like Ben Pearson, Januzaj and maybe we keep someone like Paddy McNair since there's no CBs in the above list and we only got 5.5M for him and he was technically pretty good for a CB/DM.

Zidanes and Pavones is fine if we can start developing some academy guys and hit on some cheap youth that are older academy signings like Garnacho and Hannibal. And we have a clear direction footballing wise now. Not sure it'll suit our academy unless we reinvent it, but guys like Welbeck and Cleverley were at least as good as say Fred and Elanga.

What matter is elite talent these days. If we get Gapko and he works out as a forward, we're really just an Enzo in midfield, a RB, a CB away and let's say another CB because of Varane's health (City have 5 CBs, the minimum really is 4) from looking pretty much complete as a squad, then it's just a matter of guys taking to Ten Hag's system, and if not, the guys who are question marks like Sancho and inevitable failures like McTominay can be moved on for enough money that you can sign 40M or 20M pound replacements who are at least gonna be like Malacia (bit better even, he was cheap) or Eriksen types (frees, probably not quite this good).

It's great to gamble on youth if they're training with the best, that can guide them. But Zidane for instance hasn't been battle tested in a WC final either so you never know how they will step up. I think he's 100% worth buying like you say.

 

[NoPace]

Have to say I'm fine with paying an insane tag for him after seeing him play as the closest thing to a DM for Argentina. He's effectively 2 players (starting #8, Casemiro's backup).

So if we pay 110M for him let's say, it just means keeping one of Fred or McTominay as 5th CM or selling them both and promoting Iqbal or Mainoo and just getting another DM type on a free as depth, which we can probably do, or take a shot on a 5M type and hope it's Caicedo at best and at worst a passing version of say Elneny from some mid-table Eredivisie side whose contract is running down. I'd take that over 70M on a less quality #8 and then 40M on a #6. Better to overpay on a signing that seems so unlikely to fail than 2 cheaper ones that might.

 

[Tarrou]

the only way this could be true for January is if the new owners are already decided surely

120m just seems too crazy even for us though

 

[NoPace]

It's great to gamble on youth if they're training with the best, that can guide them. But Zidane for instance hasn't been battle tested in a WC final either so you never know how they will step up. I think he's 100% worth buying like you say.

Zidanes means stars/galacticos like Zinedine Zidane, and Pavons (youth CB for Madrid) means academy youngsters. So for us I guess it's more Casemiros and Iqbals.

 

[Adnan]

Amazing that people still use "Rangnick wanted us to sign player xyz" but never use the same defense for Ole. Ole wanted us to sign Haaland, Bellingham, Caicedo and few other young players. Doesn't mean he was right choice or should have been kept in some role at club.

People should let go of past, 100s of players will be linked every year and few of them will go on to become class players.

And just to add, people are always going to use the Rangnick wanted XYZ player and the board didn't give it to him line, because we've got numb nuts like the chap below who's currently running with the club was incompetent for turning Rangnick down when he wanted Enzo Fernandez. And this chap has millions of followers on social media and alot will lap it up.

But the truth is that Rangnick didn't mention Enzo Fernandez at all in his interview with Christian Falk but name dropped 6 other players.

 

[Black Alabaster]

Real Madrid didn't cast off or bin Casemiro, this is some bs narrative in the Caf, it's well known that Perez and Ancelotti wanted to keep Casemiro, but accepted his request to leave, Casemiro was a model pro and a great servant of the club, and he had great relationship with Perez

Yeah its good it was an amicable departure after all his years of contribution to their era of success, although I think the sentiment that he was "cast off" is right in general albeit perhaps strongly phrased. His replacement was already signed and likelihood is a honest conversation about game time was probably had with Perez & Ancelotti. Think they probably saw the writing was on the wall when a 22 year old international £95m player is signed in your position that you were going to be phased out gradually for him to slowly take over but he chose to jump first instead of perhaps be diminished in anyway when he had not lost a step yet. Just read that he extended his contract to 2025 the year before infact so it does seem so.

Have to say I'm fine with paying an insane tag for him after seeing him play as the closest thing to a DM for Argentina. He's effectively 2 players (starting #8, Casemiro's backup).

Have to say im quite suprised to see amount of people endorsing a £100m outlay on this player who was available & bought for £13M 5 months ago. He is great but we missed the boat when city picked Alvarez for £20m from river. Don't we have other pressing needs in the squad with our budget, premier league all-time record transfer debt of 308M or something don't know where we're financing any kind of deal like this.. Gakpo alone will be bit of a stretch going off our recent books.

But the truth is that Rangnick didn't mention Enzo Fernandez at all in his interview with Christian Falk but name dropped 6 other players.

He didn't in the Falk interview but is it certain he wasn't raised behind scenes in scouting conversations? Suppose he would of name checked him too with Falk although you'd think if he was tracking Alvarez perhaps Fernandez would of been eyed up too.

 

[UnitedSofa]

And just to add, people are always going to use the Rangnick wanted XYZ player and the board didn't give it to him line, because we've got numb nuts like the chap below who's currently running with the club was incompetent for turning Rangnick down when he wanted Enzo Fernandez. And this chap has millions of followers on social media and alot will lap it up.

But the truth is that Rangnick didn't mention Enzo Fernandez at all in his interview with Christian Falk but name dropped 6 other players.

Funny thing is too, if we dropped £20M on him and then he turned out to be a flop, he would still then claim that the club is incompetent.

 

[El Jefe]

It won't stop too, amazing how much fanbase he has built in short stint. All it takes is "we want to sign this player" to win over so many fans, it is considered as "taking on owners".

What's funny is I remember all the Rangnick fans screaming for us to sign Zakaria this time last year. Its funny how he's now omitted from any recommendation lists because he's done nothing at Juve and Chelsea.

And just to add, people are always going to use the Rangnick wanted XYZ player and the board didn't give it to him line, because we've got numb nuts like the chap below who's currently running with the club was incompetent for turning Rangnick down when he wanted Enzo Fernandez. And this chap has millions of followers on social media and alot will lap it up.

But the truth is that Rangnick didn't mention Enzo Fernandez at all in his interview with Christian Falk but name dropped 6 other players.

I was wondering where the nonsense of Rangnick recommending Enzo was coming from and why it spread so fast so suddenly. Fits in nicely with his anti-Glazer agenda and will clearly rile up fans despite being false.

I'm even seeing people credit Rangnick with spotting Caicedo even though our interest in him was before him joining. You can't make this up anymore.

 

[DWelbz19]

And River Plate are interested, as they've got a 25% of his value.

It was a similar thing with Darwin Nunez — I think the Spanish side Benfica bought him from were entitled to 20% of the proceeds. Partly why these Portuguese league players tend to go for so much — there’s so much split ownership on these players

 

[Adnan]

Yeah its good it was an amicable departure after all his years of contribution to their era of success, although I think the sentiment that he was "cast off" is right in general albeit perhaps strongly phrased. His replacement was already signed and likelihood is a honest conversation about game time was probably had with Perez & Ancelotti. Think they probably saw the writing was on the wall when a 22 year old international £95m player is signed in your position that you were going to be phased out gradually for him to slowly take over but he chose to jump first instead of perhaps be diminished in anyway when he had not lost a step yet. Just read that he extended his contract to 2025 the year before infact so it does seem so.


Have to say im quite suprised to see amount of people endorsing a £100m outlay on this player who was available & bought for £13M 5 months ago. He is great but we missed the boat when city picked Alvarez for £20m from river. Don't we have other pressing needs in the squad with our budget, premier league all-time record transfer debt of 308M or something don't know where we're financing any kind of deal like this.. Gakpo alone will be bit of a stretch going off our recent books.


He didn't in the Falk interview but is it certain he wasn't raised behind scenes in scouting conversations? Suppose he would of name checked him too with Falk although you'd think if he was tracking Alvarez perhaps Fernandez would of been eyed up too.

Nothing is certain but we can only go off the evidence of the reports available and also apply some logic ourselves. And the reporter who was inaccurate as far as Rangnick is concerned, was Fabrizio Romano imo. And he kept telling everyone that Rangnick was involved in the hiring process of ten Hag and would be closely working with ten Hag in the recruitment process. Which contradicted the likes of Whitwell, Mitten, Ducker and Ornstein who reported that Rangnick wasn't involved in the search for the new manager. And I think it became clear at the end that Romano was wrong.

If one is to apply some logic, then it's not Rangnick who should be listened to when it comes to recruitment but rather the people who head the recruitment at the club. And one of those guys was Jose Mayorga who was brought into replace the out-going head of global scouting, Marcel Bout. And a head of recruitment should always be the one who should be identifying transfer targets. And that happens at all the well run clubs from Liverpool, Bayern and state funded Man City. With people like Barry Hunter, Markus Pilawa and Gary Worthington running the recruitment departments at Liverpool, Bayern and Man City.

It's important to understand the structure and not focus too much on who is overseeing it all in a DoF capacity.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

What's funny is I remember all the Rangnick fans screaming for us to sign Zakaria this time last year. Its funny how he's now omitted from any recommendation lists because he's done nothing at Juve and Chelsea.


I was wondering where the nonsense of Rangnick recommending Enzo was coming from and why it spread so fast so suddenly. Fits in nicely with his anti-Glazer agenda and will clearly rile up fans despite being false.

I'm even seeing people credit Rangnick with spotting Caicedo even though our interest in him was before him joining. You can't make this up anymore.

I’m pretty sure that there is something written where it mentions Ragnick wanted Alvarez and Enzo in January but was told no, there would be no signings. It was a piece someone posted on here and I’m sure there is direct quotes from him on it. Feck knows what thread that was in but I do recall seeing it. Plus we were heavily linked with Enzo after Ralph arrived.

However I’m sure every scouting department around the world surely knows these top talents coming through. It’s up to the scouts to convince the recruitment team that this player is something we should look closely at and then the suits to trust those recommendations and sign off on it.

I would say that has been United biggest issue. Not having people in charge that trust the scouts and moving for players who are already established. Probably thinking spending 60-80 mil as less of a gamble than 10 mil on an unknown.

Then you get random buys like Amad and Pellestri when we failed to get Sancho, so generally the recruitment hasn’t been good and still isn't great.

Guess we tried for Haaland and Bellingham and were turned down sooooo who knows what the issue at United is.

 

[golden_blunder]

United have hardly ever bought directly from South America so all this stuff about “should have got him last year” is pointless. First it used to be very difficult to buy and get a U.K. visa for South Americans, and secondly many of them used to be represented by multiple parties. It’s only recently the market has opened up for us realistically

 

[FrankFoot]

Did you not see the Saudi Arabia vs Argentina game, or Japan etc?

There were some top pressing performances from teams in the world cup beyond anything in the premier league

Yep.

But doing it every week is the difference, eventually a team that press like madmen are gonna appear in every WC, it's only 7 games every 4 years, buddy...and some players tend to elevate their game playing for their country cause it means more than playing for a club that they aren't sentimentally attached at all.

Plus the quality of opposition in international football is below the standards of PL and UCL, Poland, Australia, Mexico, and Saudia Arabia are not precisely great sides.

 

[FrankFoot]

120 millions for a midfielder is way too much IMO, even if he is great.

The guy is gonna have insane pressure to deliver every game because of that price tag, see what happened with Pogba, decent performances in his first 3 seasons were not enough because United pay a lot of money for him.

If he is sold for 120 millions as it's rumoured, he will be the most expensive midfielder in history of football, people will expect at least Modric-esque performances.

 

[Ekeke]

Yep.

But doing it every week is the difference, eventually a team that press like madmen are gonna appear in every WC, it's only 7 games every 4 years, buddy...and some players tend to elevate their game playing for their country cause it means more than playing for a club that they aren't sentimentally attached at all.

Plus the quality of opposition in international football is below the standards of PL and UCL, Poland, Australia, Mexico, and Saudia Arabia are not precisely great sides.

Neither are the bottom 5 teams in the premier league who would gladly take an international from the sides you just mentioned

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[jesperjaap]

Agree with this to a degree. nobody is triggering that release clause though and I think he goes for something nearer £70m myself.

See a few people saying he cant play against a press. Too early to tell from a few world cup games. When I have watched Benfica he has been excellent in keeping the ball in tight spaces, all be it higher up the field so not under a press.

It does seem there is a bit of an obsession now with us signing someone who is super good at ball retention like a Modric or a DeJOng. I can see that in Casemeiro/Eriksen are players move the ball on quickly rather than keep hold of it and Fernandes can be inconsistant both in ball retention and when he releases it....and well lets not go into Fred/McTominay.....but all the young midfielders coming through in Hannibal/Mainoo/Iqbal are these kind of players how near they are to the first team or whether they make it at all is another thing....but I still feel we need an all round midfielder that can play box to box, offensively and defensively....its our keeper is mor ethe worry under a press and our centre backs which have been much improved with the current first choice partnership.

And the only box to box players we have are McFred and both are poor defensively, positionally, passing and not great in possesion.....that for me is what needs a big improvement in our midfield, someone that can support both Casemeiro and Fernandes....that is why in different ways Bellingham/Fernandez tick the boxes for me much more than DeJong.

 

[ky_op]

Benfic Is obviously playing hard ball , the lad is the biggest midfield talent out there and now you could consider him somewhat proven but I don't think any club is willing to cough up that much, madrid's midfielder is pretty much set and barca are broke, city is the same as Madrid.

I really think Benfica might overplaying their cards here.

Benfica is not doing nothing like that... They simple don´t want to loose the player at all... especially in January. They don´t want the money... they want the player.. he is crucial for this season.
Benfica is going to reject everything.. even 120M€ in installments... only with the release clause Benfica can´t do sh*t.

 

[Black Alabaster]

United have hardly ever bought directly from South America so all this stuff about “should have got him last year” is pointless.

That is exactly the point GB, time to wise up and buck up our ideas. Typical of how we've become notorious for behaving and fans accepting of it, supporting splurging £100m on a player we needed that was available for £13m because "we don't know if he can develop, we don't shop in that market, or he could be a flop coming straight here". Time to start punching smart.

many of them used to be represented by multiple parties.

Bad excuse for Matt Judge & our negotiators, doesn't stop the Mighty colossus Brighton Hove Albion getting deals done we couldn't, let alone City Arsenal Chelsea and other top european clubs that shared similar laws to us till recently.

Happy Crimbo btw chief

 

[golden_blunder]

That is exactly the point GB, time to wise up and buck up our ideas. Typical of how we've become notorious for behaving and fans accepting of it, supporting splurging £100m on a player we needed that was available for £13m because "we don't know if he can develop, we don't shop in that market, or he could be a flop coming straight here". Time to start punching smart.


Bad excuse for Matt Judge & our negotiators, doesn't stop the Mighty colossus Brighton Hove Albion getting deals done we couldn't, let alone City Arsenal Chelsea and other top european clubs that shared similar laws to us till recently.

Happy Crimbo btw chief

Oh I agree, since there doesn’t appear to be much of a visa issue anymore, there’s a market there to plunder going forward. My point was, let’s stop moaning about players that have already gone.

re multiple owners, I think it was more of a board decision to not get involved in those cases, having been mixed up in them before

 

[Tony247]

This guy is so fecking good and very young too. 120m euros is reasonable if any club willing to match.

 

[Wednesday at Stoke]

70M is probably fair value.

 

[Abraxas]

Surprising how many people are willing to lay down 120 million quid for this player suddenly. No way near justified at this stage. You would expect absolutely top draw, world class for that type of money. He's not quite there yet, should be about half that fee or maybe a little more.

 

[zaafi]

Surprising how many people are willing to lay down 120 million quid for this player suddenly. No way near justified at this stage. You would expect absolutely top draw, world class for that type of money. He's not quite there yet, should be about half that fee or maybe a little more.

I get your point but it's in euros, not pounds. He will probably go for a bit less than that.

 

[FrankFoot]

I get your point but it's in euros, not pounds. He will probably go for a bit less than that.

120 million is more than what United paid for Pogba.

120 million would make Fernandez the most expensive midfielder in history, that's a insane pressure he will have to carry.

 

[BarryWinks]

I see him flopping if anyone spends €120M.

Don't expect him to become a Clattermole but around Rakitic levels. He seems to lack that extra that the Xavi, Modric, Verratti and to an extent Kroos had/have.

 

[zaafi]

I see him flopping if anyone spends €120M.

Don't expect him to become a Clattermole but around Rakitic levels. He seems to lack that extra that the Xavi, Modric, Verratti and to an extent Kroos had/have.

Different skillset as the first three you mentioned are some of the most press resistant midfielders in the world. I don't think anyone thinks he's going to be as good as Modric or Xavi but then again there are no midfielders in the game like them these days and probably won't be for a while so we got to go for the best ones available. The improvement Enzo would be on McTominay is tremendous and his warrior-like attitude and mentality is something Ten Hag loves.

 

[Ekeke]

I think it would be a decent option to get Maximo Perrone who has a lesser, but in some ways similar profile to when I first became aware of Enzo Fernandez - a large amount of getting on the ball and passing (64 per 90 mins) a standout in that respect for a young player in Argentina. Fernandez was better for River than Perrone is for Velez but he would be relatively cheap (Enzo was 12 million euros and was better) and if he can adapt to the european game half as fast as Enzo then he'd already be worth 3 times what we pay

He's a left footed passer who can run with the ball and will make a few tackles and interceptions and 19 years old. Again Enzo Fernandez was better in Argentina but Perrone could be a mini one for less than Benfica paid for Fernandez. I would imagine he would do better than Fred and DVB do in most performances.

 

[TrebleChamp99]

70M is probably fair value.

Maybe 5 years ago

 

[Loon]

I think we’d have one Fernandez too many. Thinking of Martin Tyler here. Change his name to something less problematic, like Keith Hitler.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Maybe 5 years ago

Nah

 

[RedRonaldo]

I know its hindsight but we should have bought him in summer for cheap, I remember we are linked to them all summer as we need a new midfielder, I even said many times we should try him. Instead we wait all summer for FDJ instead, who didn't even want to join us.

 

[SATA]

Is he the flavour of the month after a good world cup tournament? For 120M, i would expect a peak Casemiro or Modric at the very top of his game