https://www.frontpages.com/sports-newspapers/
Looking at it, only 2 papers used a picture of Saka and that's because he's throwing a paper plane...
English media thinly veiled racism
- Thread starter Berbaclass
- Start date
https://www.frontpages.com/sports-newspapers/
Looking at it, only 2 papers used a picture of Saka and that's because he's throwing a paper plane...
That's fine, let's end the interaction as i expected - with no tangible evidence to support your fear that newspapers are actively 'rallying' people against black players.
Where's the like button?
Well done, you’ve solved racism. It’s been a long time coming - free at last.
Thank you for your service.
Kane missing a equalising penalty opportunity against France in the world cup barely gets mentioned. I almost forgot it happened until I read this thread.
Not that I want a witch hunt, but knowing what we're like as a nation, it did amaze me how much he got away with that. I would say its growth, but I do wonder if it was someone else things would have been different....
I thought you were a proponent for not putting words in people's mouths, no?
Also, your stance is anchored by "if there's a comparable example towards a white player" = no issue - when speaking about matters regarding racist undertones, by the way. Short of a "yeah, we did ABC for XYZ" admission from a journalist, this conversation was never going to go anywhere. That would defeat the point of a dogwhistle. Nevertheless, you asked for a link/example and I pointed you to specific one that came to mind with Sterling (there's also a study for what happened with Mainoo being referred to as industrious, and my mention of him) - what you do with that is your choice/damage. I just know where you stand and don't care to hear more, nor try to change it. I think that's fair:
The same story had adjacent commentary from Ian Wright, Alex Scott, Rio Ferdinand, Stan Collymore among others (I'm sure they too are imagining things) and then veered off into Sterling being told that other black players aren't attacked and that apparently he makes himself a target by posting his hard earned possessions on his social media page - there's also historical context for this, but alas - "look! headline for white player!"
Please, go about your day/exercise.
Seemingly even sees martyrdom in it.
Always the usual suspects that brush off concerns about this as nothing.
This is absolutely an issue, and you can see it barely disguised a lot of the time, especially in the right wing papers. Some of the treatment that Sterling has gotten over the years for instance can't really be explained by anything else.
However, these examples are crap.
Here's what the back pages had:
A good few of them used the photo of Saka chucking the plane, and otherwise there's Foden, Stones, Southgate, Kane all featured as well... Not really seeing it.
Papers:
All the papers that had pictures of the players had one or more of Saka, Sterling, Bellingham featured prominently. But one random tweet has a white player in it, so it's racism?
It’s amazing the way people are still doubling down, even after this was posted. Textbook internet shenanigans. In the same way that accusing anyone who downplays this specific incident of downplaying racism in general is absolutely classic too.
The Mainoo stuff is a nothing burger as well. After being more or less ever present in a midfield that was averaging 20 shots conceded on goal per game, having an article in draft about him needing to sharpen up, defensively to start for England, is just basic football journalism.
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Reading a bit further into this, it seems like this isn't necessarily racist. The "plane awfull" thing with the plane is just a rather photogenic image and pun.
I'm sure these tabloids are not above the behaviour they're accussed of here, but in this case, ehhh
I'm sure these tabloids are not above the behaviour they're accussed of here, but in this case, ehhh
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This is a perfect example of confirmation bias. I’ve just googled various media articles on this and there are pictures of Foden and Southgate looking forlorn, Kane and Rice with head in hands etc - even the picture in the OP has used features 4 white players and 1 black. Not sure why there’s a clamour for Palmer either - he’s mixed race.
Looking at who featured in the match, I believe 11/17 are of black or mixed heritage. So yes, you’re going to have a proportion of those pictured - win or lose. The media are happy to idolise and villainise players on a whim. It’s what they do.
Looking at who featured in the match, I believe 11/17 are of black or mixed heritage. So yes, you’re going to have a proportion of those pictured - win or lose. The media are happy to idolise and villainise players on a whim. It’s what they do.
You can't critise anyone for having a cynical view of how England games are covered in the press, particularly the tabloids, the racism they project is sometimes obvious but can also be more subtle in its form, perhaps there is a confirmation bias here but we know how The Sun etc operates we know who they're trying to reach, it's like a literary/pictorial algorithm. Personally speaking i find the experience of England participating in a major competition generally unpleasant, England fans have often been insufferable (Netflix Wembley documentary is a good reminder of this), so maybe people are to quick to look for evidence of racism/hate speech, some only to score internet points, but for many like myself we just want it exposed/dealt with and surely thats better than simply dismissing it as nothing to see here. Racism exists and certain people in the media are feeding it.
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There's also a separate phenomena going on in the case of Mainoo.
Three months ago, he was the next best thing. Now he's the one standing in the way of the new flavour of the month and freshly appointed saviour of England's midfield - Adam Wharton.
Mainoo is now getting pelters just for simply existing. Every mistake or ineffective performance is being magnified and jumped upon.
And it's amplified around tournament time, just look back at the clamour for Grealish and the abuse given to any player who was "in his way" then (Mason Mount being one).
Three months ago, he was the next best thing. Now he's the one standing in the way of the new flavour of the month and freshly appointed saviour of England's midfield - Adam Wharton.
Mainoo is now getting pelters just for simply existing. Every mistake or ineffective performance is being magnified and jumped upon.
And it's amplified around tournament time, just look back at the clamour for Grealish and the abuse given to any player who was "in his way" then (Mason Mount being one).
Why are we surprised? This has been going on for as long as I can remember and will continue to do so whilst certain people are in control.
This is exactly what a straw man is. A classic technique used by people unable to argue a point precisely - in this case, evidence that these innocuous headlines and pictures were racially motivated. Think about it. Racially motivated. When the absurdity of the idea is called out, you simply pivot to something this juvenile or broad, meaning that your position of 'racism exists and it is bad' means you're always 'right'.
'solved racism'... A genuinely pathetic post from the very worst school of discussion
So
Also, I'm pretty sure the BBC used a different image of him on their website, where he was lying on the floor. What's the reason for that?
Lastly, it's in pretty poor taste to insinuate that one of the very few prominent black football journalists, who has no doubt been fighting racism in his industry his entire career, only wrote about this because he wants attention for himself. That's insulting, to be honest.
This is a pretty clueless post, TBH. Why should an image of Saka be used at all? Because he threw a paper plane 'and that makes a good picture'? You really think that's a sufficient reason? He barely featured in the game and he's not the captain, not the manager and not the flavour of the month (Foden).
Also, I'm pretty sure the BBC used a different image of him on their website, where he was lying on the floor. What's the reason for that?
Lastly, it's in pretty poor taste to insinuate that one of the very few prominent black football journalists, who has no doubt been fighting racism in his industry his entire career, only wrote about this because he wants attention for himself. That's insulting, to be honest.
Three consecutive sane posts.
The fact that this specific example can't be criticised as a massive confirmation bias and nothing event is a sign of the broad problem of ever discussing racism in western societies these days. Deep down people know they've utterly overreacted and pivot to petty swipes that insinuate any doubters here are doubting racism broadly or simplifying it. Its so plainly clear that saka was used because of the plane - and one arsenal fan got sensitive online and exploded it.
The mainoo article was shit but posted by a guy who recently praised him to the highest possible level, and above all else - a simple look shows that the overwhelming majority of papers and media simply did not use a black players picture (despite 8 black players finishing the game). It is quite as preposterous as arguing that the sky is green.
Sorry but ive written enough here to not have to answer a post this poor. If you can't see why saka's plane picture was used then you've either never read a newspaper or are being disingenuous. If in doubt about anything I've said I've written plenty here to clarify it. And yes, Lewis is being an idiot here, and his being black doesn't change that. Im not going to patronise the guy and tiptoe around criticising his stupid take that is clearly proven wrong when looking across the media.
You can't really blame people for calling it out without doing further reading. My initial thought was; racist tabloid cnuts after just reading the 3 tweets crticizing them. If you don't investigate it any further, and with some tabloids' track record, it's not a huge reach.
But that's the internet, woohoo.
I get that, but to be incessantly doubling down after is a problem. Social media and a lack of critical thinking is to blame, and we're probably all guilty of it at times but the simple FACT here is that absolutely nothing is suggestive of racism - one of the most horrible dehumanising things, is not manifested in using a picture of a player throwing a paper plane, or using a black players image after a loss.
It might be well intentioned, but this hysteria is some of the most patronising, regressive stuff out there
You've written enough and it's mostly BS, with all due respect. Why can't you answer the question? If the image of Saka throwing the plane is such an arresting one, then why didn't all the papers run with it? That is what happens when you get an interesting image at a sporting event.
You come across as someone who feels that he knows better than everyone else what racism is and what it isn't. Trust me, you don't.
Racism is not just monkey chants. I know you would probably like it to be, so that we don't actually tackle all forms of bigotry, plain and unconscious/subconscious, but unfortunately, it is more nuanced than that.
Furthermore, as I said, the plane image is not the only one that was used.
That would imply that your arguments were made in good faith with a genuine desire to understand the point of view of another person.
They weren’t.
You demanded evidence for a claim someone wasn’t even making.
When they clarified that you were mistaken you accused them shifting the goalposts.
When they repeated the clarification you ignored it completely.
You’re presenting yourself as entitled to a justification for someone holding an opinion that is different from your own.
You stated your intention to “counter” (your words) any evidence presented with examples of white players being criticised by the press (the most straw man of counter arguments seeing as not a single person has suggested that this is not the case).
Whereas @TsuWave acknowledged that his viewpoint is (like all viewpoints) affected by confirmation bias, you’ve done no such thing.
You wanted specific examples of an undertone to reporting (a strange demand seeing as undertone is subtextual by its very nature).
When presented with a link to an Editor of a newspaper acknowledging issues with their own publications reporting, you ignored it.
And now you’re playing the martyr.
If my post was “juvenile”, it’s because your smug interaction deserved no better.
Enjoy your day.
And always the usual suspects to ramp something up even though there's little evidence of it being racist.
Of course racism needs to be cut out in all walks of life and not just in football but sometimes common sense needs to prevail or we just keep going round in circles.
The press in general are sensationalists looking for their next headline and for them it doesn't matter where it comes from. Take Maguire as an example. For the last number of years he has to be one of the most vilified players on a journalists radar and without meaning to sound flipant he's hardly going to be confused as someone from a non white background.
No one is safe from the journalists typewriter. One day you're the flavour of the month the next you're being thrown from pilar to post regardless of color or background.
When Rashford and Sterling are accused of "flaunting wealth" or being "flashy" when they've purchased a home for a family member, whilst a young white player is described as "generous" for doing similar. I'd agree that their is a narrative being pushed.
With regard to the pictures of Saka and a paper plane, I don't. The English media spend an entire season maybe two, talking about "who will be on the plane" to the next big tournament. They pick their players who are "guaranteed", "may drop out", "could force their way in" and "a dark horse" throughout that period. Which then ramps up as we approach the end of the season and goes into overdrive when the England manager picks their preliminary squad. Couple the love of "who's on the plane", with The Mail and The Sun love of a cheap cheesy headline and Saka throwing a paper plane was a perfect image for them to tie it all in.
With regard to the pictures of Saka and a paper plane, I don't. The English media spend an entire season maybe two, talking about "who will be on the plane" to the next big tournament. They pick their players who are "guaranteed", "may drop out", "could force their way in" and "a dark horse" throughout that period. Which then ramps up as we approach the end of the season and goes into overdrive when the England manager picks their preliminary squad. Couple the love of "who's on the plane", with The Mail and The Sun love of a cheap cheesy headline and Saka throwing a paper plane was a perfect image for them to tie it all in.
Yeah, agreed. And when you consider the track record the UK tabloid press have for being racist (their treatment of Sterling being the best example) it’s not a massive leap to assume this is more of the same.
Continuing to double down after more context has been provided for the images in the OP is a bit much though. It’s ok to admit you may have overreacted or, god forbid, admit that you were wrong in an internet argument. The internet would be a better place if people did that more often.
There is no wrong or right answer. There is an argument for and against any of these things. Thats one of the biggest issues with racism. You can see it absolutely everywhere if you want to look for it. Sometimes you will be right and sometimes you will be wrong.
Did they pick a picture of Saka because it fit a crappy turn of phrase for the headline? Probably. Did they pick it because they are subconsciously racist and decided to pick a black player to be the face of defeat? Maybe. Its quite ridiculous for either side to be arguing with the amount of certainty some of you are.
Did they pick a picture of Saka because it fit a crappy turn of phrase for the headline? Probably. Did they pick it because they are subconsciously racist and decided to pick a black player to be the face of defeat? Maybe. Its quite ridiculous for either side to be arguing with the amount of certainty some of you are.
Not really. There is quite substantial evidence of unconscious bias and systemic racism existing in society overall, and there's a bit of history of it existing in the past decade regarding footballers in England overall aswell as the national side.
I think racism can be manifested in the ways you mentioned, regardless of whatever is going on in this specific example, and people who are more keyed into the subtleties are more likely to flag this as "probably racially biased". Unconscious racial biases are a known thing, and that's without even getting into the very conscious and insideous political games the press are involved in when it comes to race, LGBT, money, power, etc. So I don't think it's as regressive, patronising and hysterical as you think. There's definitely a confirmation bias thing going on sometimes though when looking at specific incidents like this and I think people in general should do their due diligence when accusing a specific individual of being racist. But the press in general do have a fair bit of history of racial bias, both inside football and out of it, and it's important to not forget that and backlash too far in the other direction when people get ahead of themselves a bit on calling this stuff out.
One of very few balanced opinions coming from the other side of this argument. Re hysteria, i would point you to some recent replies in this thread. Keeping in mind that my position all along is that this specific uproar is absolutely absurd and look at the insinuation and reactions here.
We actually have people who seem to be stopping just short of saying that a black players image should not be used after a loss. It is utter madness, and only people being disingenuous will claim they don't know why the saka plane image was used. When pushed on it, one poster has asked why if it's a good image then why didn't ALL the papers use it?! This is madness, its absolute confusion and lack of any sort of consistent thought. In this case it is 100% regressive to try heighten the feeling that use of a black players image is rooted in systemic racism, conscious or otherwise. Of all the recent online conversations sparked by race, this episode is the most ridiculous and absolutely undermines the real issues.
The overwhelming majority of papers and outlets did not use black players images - and to be 'right' in this case, you have to ignore that. It makes no sense whatsoever
I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just suggesting that not everything has to do with racism which I think is the case in this thread.
No one actually said the bolded. You're just making stuff up. What people are asking for is that a black player's image not be prominently used when he played about a quarter of the actual game and thus barely participated. Is this too much to ask, in the race-blind utopia that you apparently live in?
And his image was prominently used, across a lot of platforms. People here are discussing the tabloids and saying, it's OK, because not all the papers did it. But what about the websites? Even in the tweet in the OP, you can see that the Telegraph and the Beeb used another image of Saka, not the one with the paper plane but a completely unrelated one. Why?
I've run out of posts now so that's my last on this today. You'd think that after what happened to Saka and a couple of his colleagues after the Euros, people on here might be a bit more cognizant of the fact that using his image as the banner for a bad loss when he played for 25 minutes is problematic. But apparently not.
No one said you said that. I said stopped short of. And what you're saying here is just short of it. Saka is one of the most high profile players in the squad, and I've explained the plane image. That image aside, he doesn't feature prominently AT ALL. Most players on by the end were subs, the statistical likelihood is that one would feature in some pictures and even despite this the overwhelming majority of pictures did NOT feature him or other subs. A small percentage of images used across platforms featured Saka, one of the most high profile players in the current squad. Its completely normal and expected,as is the case with all the other players who's images were used.
Youre alleging racism because a high profile players image was used. Even if you think there's something to look into, this is just so evidently not the case that you've seemingly no option but to keep doubling down on insanity. Seeing skin colour everywhere is not an antidote to racism
Personally I think this is a case of unconscious bias and the image fitting the pun.
Strange
It's a mindset some people have, would this thread have as many posts if the picture was of a mixed race or Caucasian player ?
Of course not, it wouldn't get a mention.
Move on, 80 years ago, people of all races, creeds and colours were fighting and dying together for your freedom.
Always the usual suspects trying to make something out of nothing you mean.
Did you see the post that gave the whole cross section of newspaper articles about the game?
Or are you just going on the couple that the opening poster has used that feature Saka?
Yep....
I saw the post, I disagree that there is nothing in the situation and I believe unconscious bias and systemic racism exists and exudes itself in our media regarding the english national side.