English cricket thread

Another dismal day............

Steve Smith was taking the piss at the end and then our batsman did the rest.

There's an old saying at Old Trafford: "If you can see the Derbyshire hills it's going to rain, if you can't it's already raining." We need the Manchester weather to save our arses tomorrow.

charlton66 said:
Proud of the lads so far. This series is far from over.
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24 hours is an awfully long time in sport.
 
arnie_ni said:
Best test player ive seen.

Ive see tendulkar at the end of his career when i was very young and can't remember much of him, but smith is the best modern day test player ive seen.

Kohli being the best odi player
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He's the best since Bradman for sure.
 
Smith and the Aussie bowlers have been utterly insane this series.

@Ronaldo's ego Not many batsmen come out of English conditions in good stead - Smith has been incredible in conditions which rarely favour batsmen.
 
Ronaldo's ego said:
As great as Smith is, you have to look at the opposition too. The vast majority of bowlers today wouldn’t be fit to lace the boots of the bowlers the likes of Lara and Tendulkar came up against
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That’s really not true in any way shape or form. The only really decent bowlers between the end of the Windies Era were Akram, McGrath, Warne, Murilitheran and you could say for England maybe Jones and Harmison. Pretty much unless you were playing Australia, the bowlers were so so. Good but nothing great.

There’s a much higher percentage of world class bowlers now than there probably has been for a long time on pitches that cater far more to getting a result than high scores.

Don’t reinvent history to discredit Steve Smith. He’s far and away the best test batsman most of us will ever see. As good as Tendulkar was, him getting hundreds never felt like it was inevitable. Ricky Ponting had one purple patch in his career around 2005/2006 where he was like that, but smith has been doing this for 5 years
 
mariachi-19 said:
That’s really not true in any way shape or form. The only really decent bowlers between the end of the Windies Era were Akram, McGrath, Warne, Murilitheran and you could say for England maybe Jones and Harmison. Pretty much unless you were playing Australia, the bowlers were so so. Good but nothing great.
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I take it you've never heard of Curtly Ambrose, Courtney Walsh, Allan Donald, Shaun Pollock, Waqar Younis, Saqlain Mushtaq, Shoaib Akhtar, Shane Bond, etc?

Edit: :lol: at really decent. All those you've mentioned are GOATs. That's pretty good for an all time test cricket bowling attack.
 
Moby said:
I take it you've never heard of Curtly Ambrose, Courtney Walsh, Allan Donald, Shaun Pollock, Waqar Younis, Saqlain Mushtaq, Shoaib Akhtar, Shane Bond, etc?

Edit: :lol: at really decent. All those you've mentioned are GOATs. That's pretty good for an all time test cricket bowling attack.
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Players like MacGill, Jason Gillespie and Lee would also walk into most of the current test teams. The Aussies were stacked
 
mariachi-19 said:
That’s really not true in any way shape or form. The only really decent bowlers between the end of the Windies Era were Akram, McGrath, Warne, Murilitheran and you could say for England maybe Jones and Harmison. Pretty much unless you were playing Australia, the bowlers were so so. Good but nothing great.

There’s a much higher percentage of world class bowlers now than there probably has been for a long time on pitches that cater far more to getting a result than high scores.

Don’t reinvent history to discredit Steve Smith. He’s far and away the best test batsman most of us will ever see. As good as Tendulkar was, him getting hundreds never felt like it was inevitable. Ricky Ponting had one purple patch in his career around 2005/2006 where he was like that, but smith has been doing this for 5 years
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Blimey...
 
All eras have their great bowlers and great batsmen and I don't think it's fair to denigrate one era greats over another's. Where Steve Smith stands out is that he has managed to put together a test match average close to 65 for his career and over 70 for the last six years. In addition he seems to get better the more accomplished the opposition averaging a lowly 29 against Bangladesh but 85 against India. In terms of numbers he is the best test player since Bradman and even though I've seen a number of players who I would consider all round better players as far as different formats are concerned, IMLTHO he is the best test player I've seen.
 
charlton66 said:
Another dismal day............

Steve Smith was taking the piss at the end and then our batsman did the rest.

There's an old saying at Old Trafford: "If you can see the Derbyshire hills it's going to rain, if you can't it's already raining." We need the Manchester weather to save our arses tomorrow.



24 hours is an awfully long time in sport.
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:lol:
 
Cummings to Root reminded me of one of the GOAT balls we have seen - it's the best ball I've whilst watching on my opinion anyway.



Such an underrated bowler. Could have been one of the absolute greats if not for injuries.
 
Whilst I don't agree that there weren't many great bowlers back in the day, as there were plenty, I do also think there are plenty around these days/in this recent era:

Steyn (injuries robbed him on all-time status IMO)
Broad
Anderson
Hazelwood
Cummings
Starc
Lyon
Ntini
Malinga
Plus many more, etc
 
Moby said:
I take it you've never heard of Curtly Ambrose, Courtney Walsh, Allan Donald, Shaun Pollock, Waqar Younis, Saqlain Mushtaq, Shoaib Akhtar, Shane Bond, etc?

Edit: :lol: at really decent. All those you've mentioned are GOATs. That's pretty good for an all time test cricket bowling attack.
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I also discussed the windies.

Of course I've heard of them, none of them I would particularly rate better than the current lot and I feel there is a far larger group of high end bowlers these days. You've picked maybe 1 or 2 players from each nation over a long period of time where the rest were generally average, where as now there's enough to suggest that nearly every team has 2 really good bowlers.
 
mariachi-19 said:
That’s really not true in any way shape or form. The only really decent bowlers between the end of the Windies Era were Akram, McGrath, Warne, Murilitheran and you could say for England maybe Jones and Harmison. Pretty much unless you were playing Australia, the bowlers were so so. Good but nothing great.

There’s a much higher percentage of world class bowlers now than there probably has been for a long time on pitches that cater far more to getting a result than high scores.

Don’t reinvent history to discredit Steve Smith. He’s far and away the best test batsman most of us will ever see. As good as Tendulkar was, him getting hundreds never felt like it was inevitable. Ricky Ponting had one purple patch in his career around 2005/2006 where he was like that, but smith has been doing this for 5 years
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What are Harmison and Jones doing on that list..
 
Bowlers today are clearly inferior to their 90s counterparts. Yeah, Cummins and Hazelwoods of the worlds are great bowlers. But I can barely see a single bowler today, bar a couple who can literally win you test series' by themselves. Just the way Smith is doing by batting this Ashes. Last great single handed performance I saw was Mitch Johnson maybe and his peak was too small. All the players mentioned by Moby were individually dangerous enough to tilt entire matches by themselves. All you need to do is open your eyes and see that Lyon is a the best spinner of late whereas he would be not even in the top 10 of all time.

That said, it would be silly to rob Steve Smith as one of the best ever using this. You can only play what's in front of you and I certainly think he would get into any of the best ever teams by the time his career ends.

Also, Harmison :lol: and I dont even recall a Jones
 
mariachi-19 said:
I also discussed the windies.

Of course I've heard of them, none of them I would particularly rate better than the current lot and I feel there is a far larger group of high end bowlers these days. You've picked maybe 1 or 2 players from each nation over a long period of time where the rest were generally average, where as now there's enough to suggest that nearly every team has 2 really good bowlers.
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Eh? Ambrose, Donald, Younis not rated higher than which current bowler?
 
mariachi-19 said:
I also discussed the windies.

Of course I've heard of them, none of them I would particularly rate better than the current lot and I feel there is a far larger group of high end bowlers these days. You've picked maybe 1 or 2 players from each nation over a long period of time where the rest were generally average, where as now there's enough to suggest that nearly every team has 2 really good bowlers.
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:lol:
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Cummings to Root reminded me of one of the GOAT balls we have seen - it's the best ball I've whilst watching on my opinion anyway.



Such an underrated bowler. Could have been one of the absolute greats if not for injuries.
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Agreed on Cummins. Hes a really good bowler. But for GOAT ball, it's always going to be Akrams wicket of Dravid. Especially considering the previous 2 balls were a set up and then the final wicket.

 
zing said:
What are Harmison and Jones doing on that list..
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Proving a point... regarding less than quality bowlers in the 90’s and early 2000’s. I can’t remember a great English bowler through the 90’s. Gough and Caddick?

Are Donald and Pollock better than Morkel and Steyn?

Are Lee and Gillespie better than Hazelewood and Starc? (And I was a big Brett Lee fan).
 
cesc's_mullet said:
Cummings to Root reminded me of one of the GOAT balls we have seen - it's the best ball I've whilst watching on my opinion anyway.



Such an underrated bowler. Could have been one of the absolute greats if not for injuries.
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Not sure about that - he didn't break into the test team until he was 30.
 
Interval said:
Bowlers today are clearly inferior to their 90s counterparts. Yeah, Cummins and Hazelwoods of the worlds are great bowlers. But I can barely see a single bowler today, bar a couple who can literally win you test series' by themselves. Just the way Smith is doing by batting this Ashes. Last great single handed performance I saw was Mitch Johnson maybe and his peak was too small. All the players mentioned by Moby were individually dangerous enough to tilt entire matches by themselves. All you need to do is open your eyes and see that Lyon is a the best spinner of late whereas he would be not even in the top 10 of all time.

That said, it would be silly to rob Steve Smith as one of the best ever using this. You can only play what's in front of you and I certainly think he would get into any of the best ever teams by the time his career ends.

Also, Harmison :lol: and I dont even recall a Jones
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Well, you're judging all those other players after their career has ended. I think the 90s bowlers were better overall, but this is a great era of fast bowling.

There was a period where SA had Steyn, Philander, Morkel which was as good as any in the last 30 years. Rabada will go down as a great, as will Cummins, maybe Hazlewood. India have terrific fast bowlers and Smith played Ashwin/Jadeja at their peak who'll go down as two of India's best ever at home. All these players could single handedly change matches.

He also made runs against Anderson and Broad.

Overall test cricket batting averages have come down and these last few periods have had a strike rate that's the lowest in the last 90 years or so - and it's not just down to poorer technique.. pitches are offering more.

The 90s were tougher but not by that much more.
 
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Interval said:
Agreed on Cummins. Hes a really good bowler. But for GOAT ball, it's always going to be Akrams wicket of Dravid. Especially considering the previous 2 balls were a set up and then the final wicket.

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Pure magic from Akram. He was a joy to watch. Probably my favourite bowler to watch after Shane Bond.
 
Anyone hear the Bayliss interview?

"Save the game and have a beer afterwards"

Only the 2nd part is going to happen, unfortunately.

We needed to stay in for an extra hour and 40/50 runs to make a game of this.

98 overs today is impossible to survive.

Atherton and Cook as concussion subs, anyone? :smirk:
 
Ronaldo's ego said:
As great as Smith is, you have to look at the opposition too. The vast majority of bowlers today wouldn’t be fit to lace the boots of the bowlers the likes of Lara and Tendulkar came up against
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Thats actually partly been disproven this morning with the stats athers had.

Theres more better bowlers today than 10 years ago.

Edit i see your going further back than 10 years ago. Ignore my post
 
Sassy Colin said:
Anyone hear the Bayliss interview?

"Save the game and have a beer afterwards"

Only the 2nd part is going to happen, unfortunately.

We needed to stay in for an extra hour and 40/50 runs to make a game of this.

98 overs today is impossible to survive.

Atherton and Cook as concussion subs, anyone? :smirk:
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You're so negative.
 
zing said:
India have terrific fast bowlers and Smith played Ashwin/Jadeja at their peak who'll go down as two of India's best ever at home. All these players could single handedly change matches.


The 90s were tougher but not by that much more.
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Some good conversation on bowlers going on but I'm sorry not even Jadeja will believe the bit in bold.

Re the 90s: An era having Wasim, Waqar, Imran, Warne, Lee, McGrath, Donald, Pollock, Murali, Walsh, Ambrose and others compared to potential greats like fecking Jadeja? :lol:
 
iKnowNothing said:
Some good conversation on bowlers going on but I'm sorry not even Jadeja will believe the bit in bold.

Re the 90s: An era having Wasim, Waqar, Imran, Warne, Lee, McGrath, Donald, Pollock, Murali, Walsh, Ambrose and others compared to potential greats like fecking Jadeja? :lol:
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Conversations like this always brings out people who read a few news articles and don't watch actual matches.

Jadeja at home:
28 matches, 144 wickets at 19.7 and an economy of 2.2

Ashwin at home:
37 matches, 234 wickets at 22.7 and an economy of 2.8
 
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