English cricket thread

ArmchairCritic said:
Also as a general note, playing of spin has declined globally I think. It’s not just England, although England seem to be the worst of the lot, sometimes.
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Batting averages generally have declined in the last 5 years, regardless of spin or pace. We always say it's a batsman's game but that's only relevant for white ball. In red ball cricket scores have been much lower on average than the previous decade.
 
JohnnyKills said:
You can look at it both ways right? Either their bowlers outperformed our bowlers or their batters outperformed our batters.

You could argue that it was our bowlers who lost the game by conceding 340 on a really helpful pitch. Certainly, our batters have more credit in the bank (although some are running out pretty quickly!)
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You could argue that, but it would be a bit crazy. We should have had more runs on the board in the first innings, meaning Pakistan would have been under further pressure. Pakistan ended up with a good score in the first innings but the only reason it was a match winning score was because of the performance of the batters.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Batting averages generally have declined in the last 5 years, regardless of spin or pace. We always say it's a batsman's game but that's only relevant for white ball. In red ball cricket scores have been much lower on average than the previous decade.
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Batters can't adapt to adversity anymore. And that's not just an England problem, it's a universal problem. India just bowled out for 46 ffs!

No-one tries to reign themselves in anymore. It's attack or collapse. You could argue that England have done the smart thing by leaning into it and picking the most aggressive batters they can.
 
ArmchairCritic said:
Rehan has to play every single ODI and T20I tour on spinning decks too, missed opportunity to not have him in India for the World Cup and he needs to be playing with Rashid as much as possible.
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Agree. We need to get as many overs into him and Bashir as we can.
 
IRN-BRUno said:
You can try and tweak the rules and everything but ultimately you can't replicate these conditions, the only way is to play in them against good opposition. Noman and Sajid aren't top class bowlers, the latter played a handful of games for Somerset a couple of years ago and he was absolutely awful but at home they know what they're doing. Batters have to come up against that sort of quality to learn properly, same goes for the young spinners. Bowling at county level against players who generally don't play spin well isn't enough to prepare you for the step up.
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Yeah totally. Players need to be sent to play overseas - could we start entering teams in local domestic comps? We did it in the West Indies a few years ago if memory serves.

But there's also loads we can do to encourage spin to him. At the moment we're doing nothing, right? So literally anything would be an improvement!
 
JohnnyKills said:
Yeah totally. Players need to be sent to play overseas - could we start entering teams in local domestic comps? We did it in the West Indies a few years ago if memory serves.

But there's also loads we can do to encourage spin to him. At the moment we're doing nothing, right? So literally anything would be an improvement!
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Absolutely. Do we even play warm up matches when on tour anymore?
 
Really poor test defeat that one. One of our worst under this regime, if not the worst.
 
Just seen that India were bowled out by Mitchell Santner and Glenn Phillips. Makes you think that England could have done a lot better when they visited India!!
 
TheGame said:
WTF is this selection about? Guy averages 25 in FC cricket.

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He's a 21 year old aggressive batter and a left arm spinner which they will be trying to work on with him. He was extremely highly rated so it does make some sense.

I think they're just looking at attributes in youngsters now and don't rate county cricket at all as an indicator of success.
 
Balljy said:
He's a 21 year old aggressive batter and a left arm spinner which they will be trying to work on with him. He was extremely highly rated so it does make some sense.

I think they're just looking at attributes in youngsters now and don't rate county cricket at all as an indicator of success.
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If he was being picked as an allrounder then I would understand. He’s being picked as a specialist batsman. Surely it would have been better to pick an actual batsman from County Cricket.
 
TheGame said:
If he was being picked as an allrounder then I would understand. He’s being picked as a specialist batsman. Surely it would have been better to pick an actual batsman from County Cricket.
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Yeah it's unusual but really he's not going to play so it's just a chance to get him in the nets with the squad. Smith is expected to miss two tests, Cox will take the gloves. Little point asking Lawrence to carry the drinks again.

I think England also think it sends a clear message to Pope that he isn't going to be dropped, whereas selecting Lawrence or Jacks or someone, it would add pressure and media scrutiny.
 
Wasn't expecting that. You'd think whoever the spare batter was they're unlikely to play but maybe Rew or Robinson would have been better selections. If anything happens to Cox it's not ideal for Pope to have to take the responsibility of keeping as well, he needs to just focus on batting.

Also a weird decision to take all 3 spinners!
 
Balljy said:
He's a 21 year old aggressive batter and a left arm spinner which they will be trying to work on with him. He was extremely highly rated so it does make some sense.

I think they're just looking at attributes in youngsters now and don't rate county cricket at all as an indicator of success.
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It's not necessarily not rating it. More that you can't rely on it to nurture unique talent / skill sets so they back themselves to pick them out and let them do it 'on the job'.

It's had some merit and success so far. But someone like a Robinson can certainly count themselves unlucky.
 
The Bethell/Ahmed selections are succession planning for Stokes’ all rounder slot IMO.
 
The Cat said:
I'm still surprised Foakes has been jettisoned completely.
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There were times where he was with the tail and it was very hard to imagine him managing to take charge of the situation and I think that's about the worst crime you can commit as an England batsman.
 
DOTA said:
There were times where he was with the tail and it was very hard to imagine him managing to take charge of the situation and I think that's about the worst crime you can commit as an England batsman.
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The flip side is he would stay in while everyone else threw their wickets away hitting a six or two.

He is also the very best WK in the world with the gloves.

A shame for old traditionalists like me.
 
TheGame said:
This is an awful batting line up for England. Goes back to the days of bits and pieces players scattered across the middle and lower orders.
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Yeah it's weird. 9 bowling options. Would be different if the test batsmen were in contention, but surely there are 2 or 3 specialist batsmen in the county game who should be in contention.

Is Baz white ball coach yet, or is Trescothick in charge for this series?
 
Trequarista10 said:
Yeah it's weird. 9 bowling options. Would be different if the test batsmen were in contention, but surely there are 2 or 3 specialist batsmen in the county game who should be in contention.

Is Baz white ball coach yet, or is Trescothick in charge for this series?
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I think this is the final series before he starts.
 
Trequarista10 said:
Yeah it's weird. 9 bowling options. Would be different if the test batsmen were in contention, but surely there are 2 or 3 specialist batsmen in the county game who should be in contention.

Is Baz white ball coach yet, or is Trescothick in charge for this series?
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I think we only told the selection panel this tour was on last week, hence Pepper getting picked despite being about the 28th best white ball bat in the country
 
That line-up looked short of bowling options, would bring Topley and Saqib in for Salt and Jacks tomorrow.

Seriously though, how can anyone actually think this is a good side to pick? I assumed Overton was now fit enough to bowl when selected for this tour, you can just about see why he could have a role in T20 as a batter only but it's a farce to go with that in an ODI. It's not like there's a shortage of batting talent in white-ball formats, there must be 15+ who could come into this side and actually make it competitive even without the test players.
 
There are funky team selections and there is Sam Curran promoted to six.
 
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